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Announcement Games and Trade Auctions Announcements coming January 1, 2018

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Announcement Games and Trade Auctions Announcements coming January 1, 2018
starry_solo

starry_solo

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Just to let you know that an announcement regarding games and trade auctions will be coming out January 1, 2018.

All trade auctions started prior to the new rules being implemented may continue, but there will be rules that need to be followed. We have noticed an influx of non-authentic Disney items (handmade) being offered in both games and trade auctions, which don't follow the existing rules. See:
General Rules

So, just to let you know, we have been working on the rules and they will be ready to be implemented in the new year.

Thank you all.
 
Well, I'm really just curious where you all see handmade items here on the forums. If they can't be used in trade auctions or games, and they technically can't be sold (those rules are a bit vague, describing just "other Disneyana"), how do they fit?

On the same note, why disallow handmade items? For Trade Auctions especially, this seems a moot point. If people want them, they'll pick them/bid for them, so they're mostly self-policing. I suppose I can understand why you might take them out of games, since you'd be expecting a pin or some legit piece of merch, but oftentimes, the handmade items are nicer/better/cooler than the official/fantasy stuff. Speaking of fantasy, why allow fantasy pins (arguably a handmade item), but not other handmade items?

Just my two cents and the questions I have.
 
Tokaji said:
Well, I'm really just curious where you all see handmade items here on the forums. If they can't be used in trade auctions or games, and they technically can't be sold (those rules are a bit vague, describing just "other Disneyana"), how do they fit?

On the same note, why disallow handmade items? For Trade Auctions especially, this seems a moot point. If people want them, they'll pick them/bid for them, so they're mostly self-policing. I suppose I can understand why you might take them out of games, since you'd be expecting a pin or some legit piece of merch, but oftentimes, the handmade items are nicer/better/cooler than the official/fantasy stuff. Speaking of fantasy, why allow fantasy pins (arguably a handmade item), but not other handmade items?

Just my two cents and the questions I have.
Click to expand...

The DPF Auction House and Pin Games subsection of the forums have always been specific for Disney pins since they were created. It was expanded to include official Disney items for trade auctions, but anything non-official Disney is supposed to be handled in the "other for sale/wanted" section of the forum.

If you look at the General Rules that were posted way back when in 2013 here:
General Rules

The very first rule states "You may post your authorized Disney pins for trade auction in the forum." Over time, we noticed people starting to put up non-pin items up. Eventually, the sub-section had a description added to allow "other items" for auction, but nothing non-official.

As far as fantasy pins go, there was a discussion as to whether we should allow it into the games. Since it is a pin, we decided to go ahead and let it in, with certain limitations. There was even a discussion as to whether we should even allow games to continue in the forum.
 
starry_solo said:
The DPF Auction House and Pin Games subsection of the forums have always been specific for Disney pins since they were created. It was expanded to include official Disney items for trade auctions, but anything non-official Disney is supposed to be handled in the "other for sale/wanted" section of the forum.

If you look at the General Rules that were posted way back when in 2013 here:
General Rules

The very first rule states "You may post your authorized Disney pins for trade auction in the forum." Over time, we noticed people starting to put up non-pin items up. Eventually, the sub-section had a description added to allow "other items" for auction, but nothing non-official.

As far as fantasy pins go, there was a discussion as to whether we should allow it into the games. Since it is a pin, we decided to go ahead and let it in, with certain limitations. There was even a discussion as to whether we should even allow games to continue in the forum.
Click to expand...

Okay, so technically, those rules only apply for the Pin Trading/Selling/Wanting threads? Handmade items will be put into the "Other" category specifically, then?
 
Ksnuggles said:
yes handmade stuff can still be put there.

These primarily apply to Auctions.. but yes you have to offer handmade things and such for trade or sale in the "other" thread.
Click to expand...

May I make a suggestion then? If you're separating out handmade items from the normal DPF Auction House, perhaps it would be best to rename/label some things? For instance, adding an Auction tag to the "Other" category to allow for auctions to be posted there? Or possibly adding a second Auction House since the rules and thread management for the Auctions is different? Although that seems like a lot more work than just allowing all items in the Auction House? ;)

Same thing for the Games, I guess? And perhaps defining where someone would put an Auction/Game that has or allows both? How would those work?
 
I was wondering this too, but it makes sense from a legal context. Although we are not commercially distributing our hand made creations, we are using the likeness of characters that we do not own the trademarks too, making it unauthorized. There is the question of whether or not because we are not specifically selling them, but are more "trading" them with auctions, then why are they not allowed - but it's within the forum's discretion to decide to include or not include unauthorized items. And making the decision to not include any unauthorized item (including handmade) is probably better for the forum overall, because it provides a protection that any items being distributed in these events that have a certain element of "chance" are considered authentic. As for Fantasy pins, I can see an exception being made because of their popularity and the nature of this forum. If this was, per-say, a pokemon plush forum then I could see an exception being made for handmade plushes. Or if it was a forum for Disney Dolls I could see the loophole for OOAK dolls.

My questions are:

1) Why is there a price limit on games, and how were the shipping prices estimated? I understand that it is now required to add tracking, but in my experiences adding tracking to an international package pushes the cost above $10.
2) Are bids of unauthorized goods allowed? For example, am I able to include a commissioned art piece as a bid?
3) In the new games rules, can you include a clarification about opportunity drawings? It may be helpful for new members to explicitly state that there are no opportunity drawings allowed in the games section (unless I am mistaken). Alternatively, can I do a game in which there is one "grand prize" and all the secondary prizes are randomly determined pins? (Or all of the same pin, so there is no selection involved?)
 
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Purplemandms said:
I was wondering this too, but it makes sense from a legal context. Although we are not commercially distributing our hand made creations, we are using the likeness of characters that we do not own the trademarks too, making it unauthorized. There is the question of whether or not because we are not specifically selling them, but are more "trading" them with auctions, then why are they not allowed - but it's within the forum's discretion to decide to include or not include unauthorized items. And making the decision to not include any unauthorized item (including handmade) is probably better for the forum overall, because it provides a protection that any items being distributed in these events that have a certain element of "chance" are considered authentic. As for Fantasy pins, I can see an exception being made because of their popularity and the nature of this forum. If this was, per-say, a pokemon plush forum then I could see an exception being made for handmade plushes. Or if it was a forum for Disney Dolls I could see the loophole for OOAK dolls.

My questions are:

1) Why is there a price limit on games, and how were the shipping prices estimated? I understand that it is now required to add tracking, but in my experiences adding tracking to an international package pushes the cost above $10.
2) Are bids of unauthorized goods allowed? For example, am I able to include a commissioned art piece as a bid?
Click to expand...

I definitely wonder about #2 as well - how do mixed auctions/games work? What if the auction is for a pin and a handmade item? Or if I bid both? The hard line really doesn't work in these cases.

As for the "covering asses" logic, that would need to be a hard line, too. Fantasy pins are just as unauthorized as a Gerald felted figure that I make, and, I would argue, the pins are actually in more danger of legal problems. Again, just my two cents.
 
Tokaji said:
I definitely wonder about #2 as well - how do mixed auctions/games work? What if the auction is for a pin and a handmade item? Or if I bid both? The hard line really doesn't work in these cases.

As for the "covering asses" logic, that would need to be a hard line, too. Fantasy pins are just as unauthorized as a Gerald felted figure that I make, and, I would argue, the pins are actually in more danger of legal problems. Again, just my two cents.
Click to expand...

This reminds me of the story of a high-schooler who was banned from selling panini's on campus because he didn't have a food vending permit, so he just sold paper towels and with every paper towel you got a free panini. It's a good question. And I do agree with the Fantasy Pins, in that it would be better to have all or nothing, but they have become a very large part of the hobby in a way that other unauthorized items have not that I can see why the exception has been made - and granted that exception was a small one. You still can't create auctions with the unauthorized pins, and they can only constitute a small portion of your game.
 
Hopefully I can answer everyone's questions:

1. Handmade items are not allowed anywhere other than in the "Other for Sale/Wanted" portion of the forum, but not have any auctions with those items. Trade Auctions are specifically for Disney licensed items.
2. If some one is auctioning a Disney-licensed item that is not a pin, then the bidder can bid a Disney-licensed item that is not a pin. Neither the bidder nor the auctioneer can auction anything other than a Disney-licensed item.
3. Handmade items are not allowed as game items either.
4. Shipping prices were estimated using this:
Important: USPS making changes to First-Class Mail International Flats - Stamps.com Blog

As you will note, the "loophole" (well, not really one, but one that people seemed to use to classify their first class international packages as flats) has been closed. According to the chart, postage costs for first class international packages up to 8 ounces is $9.50 if you use PayPal or stamps.com (for Canada). I will look to see what the other countries are, but that's why it's "an additional $10" for international (I am assuming that one already calculates $3-4 for shipping within the USA).

As indicated in the rules, trackable shipping means that it shows that it has been accepted by the post office. If you use an online method to generate the customs label, most of the time it will show tracking up until the time it leaves the U.S.

5. I can include some information about opportunity drawings not being allowed.
 
One question about the auctions. Shouldn't the same rules apply to the bidders as it does to the auctioneer? The pin should be in hand, all information like whether it is on card, have any dips, etc, be disclosed, along with pictures of the front and back be provided at the time of bidding?
 
Oh and for the games, I still contend that there should be a time limit, both for making payment and for making a selection. That way, the game can start reasonably and continue its progress without anyone holding up the majority of the group.
 
Spr175psu said:
Oh and for the games, I still contend that there should be a time limit, both for making payment and for making a selection. That way, the game can start reasonably and continue its progress without anyone holding up the majority of the group.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure I saw that in the rules and the Q&As.
 
Thank you for the updated rules and clarifications!

I'm happy that there is a sanctioned time limit now for picking prizes during games. Will there be official policy of what happens if the time limits passes without someone picking or submitting their preference list (They move to the bottom of the list, they move down X amount of spots, they are simply skipped and can jump back into line when they get back online, etc.)?

Also - I understand the reasoning behind not allowing the game runner to ask for payment before the game fills up. But, if a player chooses voluntarily to pay early (for instance, if the game is almost full and they know they'll be offline for the next few days and may miss the payment window), is that allowed?
 
timeerkat said:
Thank you for the updated rules and clarifications!

I'm happy that there is a sanctioned time limit now for picking prizes during games. Will there be official policy of what happens if the time limits passes without someone picking or submitting their preference list (They move to the bottom of the list, they move down X amount of spots, they are simply skipped and can jump back into line when they get back online, etc.)?

Also - I understand the reasoning behind not allowing the game runner to ask for payment before the game fills up. But, if a player chooses voluntarily to pay early (for instance, if the game is almost full and they know they'll be offline for the next few days and may miss the payment window), is that allowed?
Click to expand...

There will not be an official policy as to what happens when the time limit is exceeded. That will be up to the individual game runner, who can choose to skip over the player or to pick the pin for him or her.

If a player chooses to voluntarily pay early, that is up to the individual player.
 
Thanks, starry! One more question - if we want to run a game, do we need to submit it for approval first?
 
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