GRAIL Well, I need to keep pin trading I guess - mystery of the Tink Grail finally solved

[Purplemandms]

It is a nice pin, but there is just too much wrong with it. The bow in the hair is different, the shading on her legs and other parts of her body is missing, the background is totally different, there is missing detail on the toadstool. All the color and sparkle that make the pin beautiful appears to be missing. And now somebody else bought a similar looking pin? I am not sure it is a legitimate pin.

From my digging/speaking with the other individual, I've come up with two possible scenarios:

1) We've both been duped. That for some reason, reproductions or scrappers of this pin are showing up right now and

Why this is likely:
* the pin is totally different EDIT: even the line art is different
* the quality is not consistent in some places I.e. the edging on the back of mine)

Confounding variable:
* the seller this other person bought from he trusts 100% and has bought NUMEROUS LE 100 DA pins from
* the other buyer bought his pin because he used the image as my listing as his ISO
* the sources people have been getting these pins from seem legit - but no one has bought one of these variations directly from Disney.

2) This is a prototype pin

Why this is likely:
* The base colors of this pin match really well, and the pin is very heavy.
* It's rough around the edges, and the glue wasn't precise, so it was never intended to be a final product - just to give a general idea
* If it WAS an error pin, then they wouldn't have completed it all the way (i.e. put the holographic logo on) or had multiples (we have three occurrences so far)

Confounding variable:
* Aren't PP's and Protoypes made on black metal?
* DA pins WERE scrapped years after their original release.

Conclusion (editors after discussion):

The mold is different based off of the line work. It's subtle, but once you see it (look at Tink's neck) it's hard to stop finding differences. The lines in my pin are not as crisp and overextend I some areas, indicating that someone traced the image instead of drawing them.

It is possible this was a very early run, and they just went with a re-design. But in my gut, my version looks traced. And if it was, then this pin was never intended for circulation, and clearly isn't of as high quality as the original.

 

[Ksnuggles]

I just found mine, and yeahhhhh...yours is something else. There's no glitter in my cloth, the detail work is much more extensive, and there's a blue area around the top. Basically, it's just like the shot on the left in your comparison pic.

I'm sorry...I know you've been looking for this pin for a really long time.

I would take photos, but the forum requires you to have a photo sharing site, and I don't. Can we link to FB albums? If not, I don't really have a way to post if I can't just do it from my desktop.

Yeah you can use FB. I do it all the time. Though I don't link the album.. I post to fb then go to photo and right click and copy image address.. Then in the thread post click the photo icon and then paste the address and then post.

 

[Purplemandms]

I'll be contacting Disney Merchandising tomorrow with the following questions:

1) Can they tell me if this was a prototype of the pin?
2) Did they stamp prototype pins back then? Or use black metal? (Circa 2006)


Does anyone know if scrappers were prevalent back in 2006? I know that reproductions exist for the Tinker Bell masterpiece... But come to think of it, those reproductions were made years after the original release, AND their PP's were on black instead of gold metal

Edit: according to wikipedia:

• Pre Production/Prototype Pin – Pre Production/Prototype pins (or PP Pins) are received by product developers prior to a pin being manufactured. These pins sometimes contain different coloring, fills or features than the final production pin. The number depends on what the final product will be, as these pins may be different in size, texture, color, etc. The developers use these "test" pins to determine what the final product will be. Pin from late 2007 - now will contain a PP stamp on the back. Pins prior to late 2007 may contain a Pro Products label signifying it is a pre production pin. Some pins may contain no identification that it is a pre production pin at all.

 

[Abyssinian28]

Yeah you can use FB. I do it all the time. Though I don't link the album.. I post to fb then go to photo and right click and copy image address.. Then in the thread post click the photo icon and then paste the address and then post.

Cool, thanks! That's good for future reference! For this one, I'm already chatting with her on FB and sending the photos that way.

 

[Chusaurus]

I'll be contacting Disney Merchandising tomorrow with the following questions:

1) Can they tell me if this was a prototype of the pin?
2) Did they stamp prototype pins back then? (Circa 2006)


Does anyone know if scrappers were prevalent back in 2006? I know that reproductions exist for the Tinker Bell masterpiece... But come to think of it, those reproductions were made years after the original release, AND their PP's were on black instead of gold metal

Edit: according to wikipedia:

• Pre Production/Prototype Pin – Pre Production/Prototype pins (or PP Pins) are received by product developers prior to a pin being manufactured. These pins sometimes contain different coloring, fills or features than the final production pin. The number depends on what the final product will be, as these pins may be different in size, texture, color, etc. The developers use these "test" pins to determine what the final product will be. Pin from late 2007 - now will contain a PP stamp on the back. Pins prior to late 2007 may contain a Pro Products label signifying it is a pre production pin. Some pins may contain no identification that it is a pre production pin at all.

Yes, all scrappers were sold on this one crappy website from China (does anyone remember what it was called?). They had DAs, but few and farther between. When they switched over to DisneyShopping, that's when it became really bad.

I have a PP pin that's not stamped from the parks. The only reason I know how, is because it's the same exact pin that was on the flyer.

 

[hopemax]

* If it WAS an error pin, then they wouldn't have completed it all the way (i.e. put the holographic logo on) or had multiples

Well, a production line would need all parts calibrated. So you would let something go through the entire process, initially, when you are setting the production up. You know, you are going to discard those pieces though. Because it was just for calibration (making sure the stamping is right, color injection is right, all the way through to making sure the glue for the holograms isn't too much).

Or it really is a pre-production design that was rejected. And they went back and made it fancier.

Does anyone know if scrappers were prevalent back in 2006?

As I posted recently. My first experience with scrappers occurred in January 2005. I bought 4 pins from a seller located in Hong Kong, and when I questioned the pins upon receipt, he told me they were "Factory seconds." I even remember his Ebay name, which is long gone, harval1. And he was selling hundreds and hundreds of pins. Which, now that I Google, came up on Dizpins with posts from 2007 saying he sold them good, cheap pins...if they only knew.

 

[Purplemandms]

Do you think that it is more likely that a prototype pin or a scrapper pin would be missing the gold details too?

oooh, also I just noticed the dip in the top left circle on the bottom of the mushroom....

(Thanks @Abyssinian28 for your FB guidance)

 

[Purplemandms]

Well, you guys. I'm sad to say that the line art does not match up. My money is on the prospect that it's a fake.

I can't get the line art to match up. But even in the areas where the blue detail is missing, there is significant differences in the line art. I picked the 3 that jumped out to me the most:

1) Red - The lengths of the pages of the book lines are longer on my version than the 100% legit version
2) Purple - More subtle, but there is a dip in the upper left circle on the mushroom
3) Yellow - The most noticeable difference - the lines clearly do not overlap on one, but do so on the other.

I will be returning this pin tomorrow.

 

[hopemax]

It's more than just those 2 spots though. The released pin, the background behind Tink is four different color fill areas. Yours is only 2. The leaves on the bottom are different too, green and blue vs just green. I think that would imply they were made from different molds. Not just wrong injections, or unfinished. So either a bad counterfeit or change in production. I don't know why a counterfeiter would make only 2 (or with so many obvious differences), so either there are a lot more out there we don't know about (or will be), or that leaves production change.

 

[Purplemandms]

It's more than just those 2 spots though. The released pin, the background behind Tink is four different color fill areas. Yours is only 2. The leaves on the bottom are different too, green and blue vs just green. I think that would imply they were made from different molds. Not just wrong injections, or unfinished. So either a bad counterfeit or change in production. I don't know why a counterfeiter would make only 2, so either there are a lot more out there we don't know about (or will be), or that leaves production change.

I agree that it looks like the pins came from different molds. The lines are just too different. (Like look at tink's armpit - a sentence I never thought I would say - the one on the "incomplete" version is totally different.

My concern is that this is sounding a lot like the fiasco with Tink Starry Night Masterpiece Pin. (I think that the only way you ID the counterfeit is that it is she is pictured as much larger than the original.) Also, wouldn't prototype pins be on a different metal?

 

[Purplemandms]

From an artist's perspective - and I should have noticed this sooner - there are a lot of signs of tracing that I didn't pick up on. There is still the potential of a complete re-design, and I'll call Disney tomorrow to ask because I don't think that this other person has the opportunity to return theirs. But it's not a risk I'm willing to take, or an investment I'm willing to make at this point. (Plus, if it was a production change, why would the holo on the back be so sloppily put on?)

 

[Purplemandms]

It's more than just those 2 spots though. The released pin, the background behind Tink is four different color fill areas. Yours is only 2. The leaves on the bottom are different too, green and blue vs just green. I think that would imply they were made from different molds. Not just wrong injections, or unfinished. So either a bad counterfeit or change in production. I don't know why a counterfeiter would make only 2 (or with so many obvious differences), so either there are a lot more out there we don't know about (or will be), or that leaves production change.

For the sake of the other person, I hope it's a pre-production. But for me, the changes in line art are too much. I get the difference in full for a prototype, but why change something that works? The lines on the pin I have are much smoother than the ones on the circulated one. It's odd that this issue is only surfacing now. But there are too many discrepancies and uncertainties to make me feel comfortable with this purchase. The hunt goes on.

 

[Girugamesh]

Hello, I wanted to say that I had this dilemma as well. I had this tink that looked EXACTLY like the one you recently purchased and was shocked how completely different it was. I had to do a lot of digging but here’s what I gathered. I received the pin in original packaging and card. The person who I bought it from is a very reputable, old school collector. She has another friend who decides to remain nameless (assuming this friend works for disney) that she sells many original disney auction pins for. Every pin I have bought from this person has had the pin in original bagging and card. After some questioning, I found out the person obtained all the pins from disney auctions him/herself. I’ve talked to a lot of different tink collectors about this and they conclude that the pin it is most likely some official variation of the pin, perhaps a preproduction. They think it is too rare to be scrapped and they trust the sellers.

 

[Purplemandms]

Hello, I wanted to say that I had this dilemma as well. I had this tink that looked EXACTLY like the one you recently purchased and was shocked how completely different it was. I had to do a lot of digging but here’s what I gathered. I received the pin in original packaging and card. The person who I bought it from is a very reputable, old school collector. She has another friend who decides to remain nameless (assuming this friend works for disney) that she sells many original disney auction pins for. Every pin I have bought from this person has had the pin in original bagging and card. After some questioning, I found out the person obtained all the pins from disney auctions him/herself. I’ve talked to a lot of different tink collectors about this and they conclude that the pin it is most likely some official variation of the pin, perhaps a preproduction. They think it is too rare to be scrapped and they trust the sellers.

I'll pass this on to the person I was speaking with on FB who has basically the exact same story. I'll be calling Disney later to see what I can find out, but unfortunately the bottom line remains that I don't have the financial means to pursue both pins. I'm going to have to stick with choosing one, and the one I'll be looking for is the one that contains the blues and hi-lights/lo-lights. Moreover, unfortunately the pin I received had a bit more wear than I expected. It's more of a reason to go out and keep looking.

 

[CCofRR13]

Oh no....I can't believe this. Seeing the pins side by side, you are correct, it's not "complete" - so sorry

 

[Disneychildwithin]

Oh man what a bummer...no worries, I know you'll add a beautiful sparkly one to your collection soon.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[bookhugger]

Sorry to hear about this

 

[xdattax]

I’m sure now many of us will keep their eyes peeled for your Tink pin! ::hug::


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[slbrabham]

Good luck in the renewed search.

 

[Abyssinian28]

I'll pass this on to the person I was speaking with on FB who has basically the exact same story. I'll be calling Disney later to see what I can find out, but unfortunately the bottom line remains that I don't have the financial means to pursue both pins. I'm going to have to stick with choosing one, and the one I'll be looking for is the one that contains the blues and hi-lights/lo-lights. Moreover, unfortunately the pin I received had a bit more wear than I expected. It's more of a reason to go out and keep looking.

Yeah, at the end of the day, it's not the one that was released by Disney, it's not the one that had more detail put into it...it's just not the same. And even if they had cards and bags, I'm still suspect of *how* they released them...? No one ever saw them on sale- people just "show up" with them. Even if cast members are the ones finding them, it's still weird. It seems like an "alternate" version would still have some kind of release if it had gotten far enough to be bagged and carded. The BEST possible outcome is that it's some sort of AP/PP, and we just don't know.

One day, your prince will come Until then, accept no scrubs.

 

[TinyTink]

Oh NO...no no no no no no no...NO! This is not supposed to be happening during your college finals period.

See my PM please

 

[Jabberwocky]

Also, wouldn't prototype pins be on a different metal?

I'll just touch on this point for reference.

Early DA LE100's would be officially released in their full production run on a particular metal color and then the other two metal colors would have a limited amount of prototypes made/released (generally between 1-4 of them) in the alternate metal colors. So if the final release pin was in gold metal, there would likely be a silver metal prototype and a black metal prototype out there.

Later DA LE100's had full AP sets made - with an AP version (usually but not always stamped) in all three metal colors. Generally 1-4 sets of these were made/released, too.

 

[ladyroselie]

I just read through the whole saga, and I am so sorry this happened dear! I wish you lots of Pixie Dust in finding the official version someday soon!!!

 

[momin.ator]

 

[timeerkat]

Oh, no! I'm so sorry to hear this!