New information about Vinylmation Scrappers (serious post)

Discussion in 'Pin Guides & FAQs' started by iamdisneydan, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. iamdisneydan

    iamdisneydan The Bald Guy In The Back DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    127   0   0

    I guess with all of the fun I have I need to tag my post as being serious...lol
    I know many of you have read my serious post too but I just thought I would mention this one is serious and not a joke.

    Anyways, this post is to discuss some very easy ways to tell a counterfeit pin. I am sure many of you have noticed that the counterfeiters are doing a much better job at knocking off Disney Pins.

    They have the back stamp down pretty good and there are some pins that if you did not know what to look for, you would swear they are real. The example I am going to use if not compared to an original pin would be hard to tell by the Mickey Pattern because there is NO BORDER and the releif is perfect. But of course, there are other telltale signs to look for.

    Below I will point out what to look for and the things I am showing you hold true on almost all Disney Pins. One of the amazing things is that on some aspects, the counterfeit pins will have text that is a bit more clear because it is molded rather than die struck. I will explain below. Here we go.... (BTW, the reason there is a difference between a counterfeit and a scrapper "at least one difference" is a scrapper would be the proper thickness as you will see below)

    Some of the subtilities to notice are the font used. The pin on the right is the real pin.
    Notice the TOONTOWN print (font) on both pins. Another fine detail is size if the channel lines, the silver that separates the colors. On the real pin, the lines are much thicker. The pin on the left actually has more detail in the fingers on the left (your right) hand and that is their interpitation but is not correct. Look closley at the top of the head and the counterfeit has a slight point. Also the feet pattern is different. The real pin also should not actually have as much definition in the swirls and the color is completly different. Hopefully a picture tells a thousand words in this case and you can see many of the differences.
    misc pics november 297.jpg

    Now to the backs. First thing to notice and one of the biggest things to notice compared to the counterfeit pin below is that the marking on the back are die struck and are what's called concave. It is stamped into the pin. The disney Authentic seal is not raised and is not as clear as the counterfeit because the counterfeit is molded and not struck. Also, and a lot of people dont know this, but the nubs on the back of the pin are to help it stay in place and not move left or right and hang incorrectly. They are spaced from the pin back and larger than the counterfeit. When you see the next pin, you will totally see the difference between concave (sunk) and convex (raised)
    misc pics november 294.jpg

    This is the counterfeit pin. The scary thing is NOTICE HOW GOOD THE PATTERN IS...NO BORDER!
    Notice that the disney seal is raised unlike the real pin. Again a picture tells a thousand words and you can clearly see the difference. This hold true on most all Disney Pins. You may have heard people say the star pattern around the seal should not be pointed. This is what they mean, when pressed, the ridges are not raised where you can feel them. Also, the nubs are right next to the post.
    misc pics november 295.jpg

    And finally, the reason I mention that there is a difference between a scrapper and counterfeit is a scrapper is a B or C grade pin made by a Disney Factory but not up to Disney standards. But the thickness of a scrapper would be the same as a real pin because it started as a real pin. Notice the difference in the thickness of the pins. The real pin is almost twice the thickness of the counterfeit pin.
    If you look very closely you will also notice on the pin back that the real pin, obviously on the right, has notches all the way down the post where the counterfeit has none and just an enlarged end to keep the Mickey Rubber back in place. The notches make the rubber backs work great and also on pin boards because there is more grip.
    misc pics november 298.jpg
    Many of the things I have pointed out hold true for most pins but there are exceptions to every rule but as far as thickness, that is one of the easiest ways to tell with a quick glance. The weight is almost half of a real pin.

    I hope you find this educational and it helps you to be a little more knowledgeable and aides you in making good trades you dont regret. Of course, if you get your pin in the mail, you won't know until you get it.
     
  2. scottydem

    scottydem Senior DPF Senior Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0

    Thanks Dan, as always!
     
  3. bwschultz

    bwschultz Member

    Rating - 100%
    83   0   0

    As allways great information.:rock:
     
  4. MASTER

    MASTER UP UP and UP! DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0

    Knowlege is power.

    The question I have is what about the new pins that are not scrappers. It looks like they actually have molds, ect. It recently is happening more in the past year. Sounds like Disney contracted with a cheaper supplier to make the newer pins. WikiDisney? Other than being concerned with future LEAD in the pins, the unauthorized and scrappers have now hit DSF and WDI. There has not been good pin-on-pin or dangle pins. But, I'm thinking 2012 is the year of "cannot be ......... unless purchased at Disney as the description states on most Pinpics description to cry wolf?

    I states on other post, not including non LE's, original backing cards are the key. DPF backing cards included. :). The SKU is placed at the parks or outside parks (DSF, WDI, Disney Stores and DisneyShopping). It would eat into real profits of china makers. To print cards, place the pin on the card and put the correct color coded sticker with the correct SKU.
    I have passed on many good trades because I just do not know if a Grail that has no backing card is the real pin. I have seen very good DA pins and later found out that there are copies. Whoever made then years ago did a good job then. Buyer beware and you get what you pay for. Or do you.

    Do your homework and research of the pins you want. You wouldn't buy a car in todays world without a Carfaxs? Or a TV without looking at all the ads for the best deal on the model you want? Let your kids do a research paper from information only from the Internet? You send them to a real library and use internet to make sure you can find all truths.

    This is why a website like this is so important for the hobby. At Dizpins, which was good at the time, they did not keep up to date. You could not talk about certain topics without being edited, post taken off the threads, mods that were of the older traders. On this forum you see the older traders that can answer questions but I have also seen alot of newer traders to the hobby. Congrats to the mode to issue games and prizes to flush out the lookers and to make posts. At Dizpins, the same posters posted and newbees asked the same questions.

    I guess the answer is knowledge is power so why not ask. When I was in school, the only dumb question is the questions not asked. Thank you Dan for making people think or see the obvious. Do your homework!
     
  5. iamdisneydan

    iamdisneydan The Bald Guy In The Back DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    127   0   0

  6. UFGators1234

    UFGators1234 DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0

    Thanks for the info!
     
  7. niknaxx

    niknaxx Collector of EVERYTHING!!! DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    91   0   0

    Thanks for the info!!
     
  8. lovedoc

    lovedoc Member

    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0

    Yes thank you that was very useful information. I try to keep up with all the things to look out for but sure didn't know about the notches down the pin post, never looked at mine all that well. Thanks again.
     
  9. showmethepins

    showmethepins Gotta Find Mickey Pins!

    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0

    This post is very insightful; brilliant even... With our new project starting in 19 days I appreciate the advice from the DPF community to avoid letting scrappers into our project. I'll continue reading posts like this so I can be confident that what I'm buying is authentic. Thanks so much for your dedication!
     
  10. DoomScarf

    DoomScarf Member

    Rating - 90.9%
    10   1   0

    Good information. Thank you. :)
     
  11. YoungGun

    YoungGun Member

    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0

    Great stuff, especially with my new interest in vinyl pins. Thanks!
     
  12. dawny

    dawny Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    336   0   0

    wow Dan you are awesome. The problem is i sometimes need the "real" pin to compare to, unless it is obvious i wouldn't notice til i got it home and went on pinpics.....speaking of which is there a way i/we can contact the new folks running pinpics, because i would love to suggest that we post the back of the pin also--that would be great. i know its alot of work to "go back" on the pins on theere, but perhaps from this point foward, since the counterfeits are becomming out of control.
     
  13. charlottetowell

    charlottetowell Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    55   0   0

    hanks very much for the post - I hear so many tips on how to tell scrappers apart from genuine articles but to see photos and the differences are plain to see! It really helps with the visuals, giving examples of what you mean - thanks, I'm sure this will help many traders!! :)
     
  14. PeterYup

    PeterYup Member

    0   0   0

    I have always loved your guides
    iamdisneydan keep up the great work
    :hsd:
     
  15. dizpinfreak

    dizpinfreak Member

    Rating - 100%
    70   0   0

    After reading this, I'm inclined to look at all my pins and examine them. But I'm afraid to be disappointed. I know CMs have a lot of scrappers on their lanyards and I've done a lot of trading
     
  16. CosettePontmercy

    CosettePontmercy Member

    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0

    As far as vinylmations go -- have the 3D pins been scrappered, or are those generally safe?
     
  17. harleyquinn1229

    harleyquinn1229 Member

    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0

    thank you for the very useful information!
     
  18. tzuhouse

    tzuhouse New Member

    0   0   0

    Wow! That was so helpful!!!!! Now to go through my pins and determine if they are real or scrappers!
     
  19. Elysandrra

    Elysandrra Member

    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0

    I think that's a good idea!

    Eh... so looking through my pins, and comparing thickness of the ones I've gotten "off the line" to one I bought in the Park, I have SIX questionable pins!!! These ones are all about half as thick as my good one. :( But I do appreciate having something to compare to now, especially with harder to notice things like a raised pin trading seal as opposed to a flush one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  20. OogieBoogieRay

    OogieBoogieRay Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    Very helpful post! I found out about fakes the hard way...
     
  21. kedma

    kedma New Member

    0   0   0

    Hi Dan, does this apply just to vinylmation???
    i have some fakes ( regular pins) I can use as reference and they have the raised backs
    but I have some recently purchased pins from DL that also have raised backs. I some pins that I cannot tell if they are fake or not - I am new to this and still trying to figure it all out - thanks so much for all this info.
     
  22. Dream-come-true

    Dream-come-true Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    They are normally are safe.
     
  23. Lhorn808

    Lhorn808 Member

    0   0   0

    Great pictures, and good information!
     
  24. heftyfine

    heftyfine New Member

    0   0   0

    thank you for the guide. It is a great tool to have for reference especially for us newbies!
     
  25. trudms06

    trudms06 Member

    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0

    Thanks! This was very helpful. I have two Vinylmation pins which I traded with CMs at DLRP, and now I know that one of them is fake... Are there any similar posts/guides to determine whether HM pins are real or counterfeit? I have a number of older ones I know are real, but I'm unsure about the newer ones and newly aquired ones. HMs were the reason I got into pin trading (and collecting). But the last few times I went to Paris, I only got the DLRP HMs. Call me paranoid ;)

    Edit: Just opened the Pin Comparison forum *reading*
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016

Share This Page