PIN PICS (Wants / Trades Accuracy) Case Study

[showmethepins]

Wow! My brain certainly hurts from all of that reading. Regardless of our personal opinions I say BRAVO to our thread originator. Any topic that brings so many different opinions into the mix makes things fun. My two cents: A want list is a want list. I'm going to have pins in my want list that I couldn't trade any of my current pins for, but I still want it. As mentioned by many already, the bigger frustration is the offer of a hidden mickey pin for a DA100. I'm a HUGE pinpics fan, and I admit that I check the ratios all the time, but I agree that these numbers don't tell the whole story. Anyway, I know my response doesn't add anything new to the thread, but I enjoyed the debate...

 

[Whitney]

Hey Dan, thanks for taking the time to not only study, test, check and recheck, but also to type it all up. You post a lot of great ideas, thoughts and comic relief; you bring a wealth of information to the 'table' here at Disney Pin Forum. We realio, trulio appreciate it! I always make a point of reading your posts and I love it that you are so passionate about the hobby!

Please don't let anything squelch your enthusiasm. [[puts down her TBGITB pom-poms]]

 

[gbdb4ever]

The person that commented on the trader who stated that they only traded when they initiated the trade may have meant that they were looking for a certain pin(s) for their pin.

Actually, the individual said that the offer we made was very tempting because he highly desired the two pins we were offering. When asked, he gave no indication as to what specifically he would require to obtain the pin. In situations such as this, we can only ASSUME that the pin is not actually up for TRADE.

 

[Abyssinian28]

For those that read this post, I edited it because honestly, it's not worth it.

It seems that presenting some differing points is "mean" and "bullying", and critiquing the OP causes rope-grabbing, and that's way too much sensitivity/martyr syndrome for me to handle in what was *suppose* to be a healthy debate.

I did have responses for Dan's very strong reaction to my post, but I can't see it being received well in this environment, so I'll leave it alone.

 

[erudolf]

Actually, the individual said that the offer we made was very tempting because he highly desired the two pins we were offering. When asked, he gave no indication as to what specifically he would require to obtain the pin. In situations such as this, we can only ASSUME that the pin is not actually up for TRADE.

To me, it sounds like he was trying to bait you into offering more. By saying 'oh...I don't know, it's tempting but....' to me sounds like he was trying to give you the impression that he was right on the edge which might get you to bite into offering even more because you didn't want the trade to get away from you and in the end you would likely be offering too much.

I also get the feeling that I know who you are talking about. If it is the same person, I think that is exactly what he is doing. My impression of this person is that he likes to flaunt what he has by putting it all on his trades list but he won't actually trade anything unless you are offering up twice what it is worth...

 

[iamdisneydan]

I think the purpose of any post is to learn or gain information.
It is my opinion that this post has delivered that with over 700 views and 55+ responses.
Regardless of my opinion (or case study) it is what comes from it.
I just want all to know I do not take it personally.

As in any debate, I speak, you speak, etc.

Some of my views have changed in light of the opinions expressed. Call it backpeddling, call it what you will. I call it learning.
I appreciate all of the feedback in this post and it is great to see so many different views. You also nee to have a sense of humor about some things that have been said.

What I will say is my reference to the lynching and bring the rope will have meaning in my next post. (although some people did come across like they wanted to hang me...lol) I think no matter who you are, you will find it very entertaining.

I want to publicly say that I hold no ill will to anyone good or bad who has posted in this thread. Everyone has their opinions and there is not one of you who I would not trade with in the future. If i was going to backpeddle, the only thing I should have changed was CASE STUDY and left it as my opinion and I think the thread would have been different, but then again, would we have had all the great debate?

See you in my next post and the cool thing is, those of you who agreed will read because you want to see what other information I may have and those of you who did not will because you want to see what crazy stuff I may be talking about next...lol

OK, so the score is: Good Post 50+ Poorly thought through post 1 oh well, you cant win them all........ (and that was a case study)

 

[Cicada]

Wow! My brain certainly hurts from all of that reading. Regardless of our personal opinions I say BRAVO to our thread originator. Any topic that brings so many different opinions into the mix makes things fun. My two cents: A want list is a want list. I'm going to have pins in my want list that I couldn't trade any of my current pins for, but I still want it. As mentioned by many already, the bigger frustration is the offer of a hidden mickey pin for a DA100. I'm a HUGE pinpics fan, and I admit that I check the ratios all the time, but I agree that these numbers don't tell the whole story. Anyway, I know my response doesn't add anything new to the thread, but I enjoyed the debate...

Agreed. healthy debate and differing views is what makes for a good topic/discussion.

I do think some people have may gotten too hung up on the fact that Dan has chosen to present his findings as fact, instead of focusing on the bigger picture: determining the value of the items in the discussion (in this case, pins).

 

[Abyssinian28]

Agreed. healthy debate and differing views is what makes for a good topic/discussion.

I do think some people have may gotten too hung up on the fact that Dan has chosen to present his findings as fact, instead of focusing on the bigger picture: determining the value of the items in the discussion (in this case, pins).

But if his findings were "fact", then we couldn't have debated or argued with him at all. After all, you can't argue with fact. So if you're all for healthy debate, then wouldn't calling him out on that statement be an essential part of all of this...?

Bah. Whatever. I still don't understand why it's a big, bad thing to call him out when he makes broad, random statements that aren't true.

 

[erudolf]

But if his findings were "fact", then we couldn't have debated or argued with him at all. After all, you can't argue with fact. So if you're all for healthy debate, then wouldn't calling him out on that statement be an essential part of all of this...?

Bah. Whatever. I still don't understand why it's a big, bad thing to call him out when he makes broad, random statements that aren't true.

I don't think he means that calling him out on the errors was bad....it is just the manner in which it was done. There is a difference between saying "I don't really agree with you and here is why" and using personal attacks to make your point. Getting hung up on him calling it "Fact" caused the discussion to be more of a critique of his delivery rather than the subject matter itself. That's just how I read some of it anyways....but that may not have been the intent at all. It is difficult to convey tone in text....

 

[iamdisneydan]

Here it the tone from my text. H A P P Y T O N E lol (See Below)

Yes! I presented it as fact. A poor choice of words? Obviously everyone is their own judge.
Please know some facts are sometimes wrong although they are still presented as facts. They can however be called facts until proved otherwise. Pluto is a planet. FACT. Well until recently and now through great debate and reasoning it's not a planet. (?)
Based on the studying I did at the time, what I presented I believed is factual. I still do although there are a lot of variables I never thought of.
My main point being presented in fact, regardless on how I arrived to it is that the trades / wants ratios are not always accurate. I believe this is a fact.......
And here is the tone I want this presented in.

 

[erudolf]

They can however be called facts until proved otherwise. Pluto is a planet. FACT. Well until recently and now through great debate and reasoning it's not a planet. (?)

Careful careful careful.....I think ideas are theory until proven fact. Not the other way around. And in regards to Pluto, when it was a planet that was fact because it was defined as such. The only reason it changed is because they changed the definition of a planet. So, those two scenarios are not really parallel...

Let's all read and learn together! :lol:

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/astronomy/science.html

 

[Cicada]

 

[iamdisneydan]

Erodolf, Thanks. I am always getting things screwed up as far as the order of command. Theory first then fact.
Got it. maybe Theory should be my new word?

Now can't I define the parameters of my facts? Or can I change the definition to make them facts? (lol)

Thanks for the input. No musical notes needed.......

 

[Abyssinian28]

I don't think he means that calling him out on the errors was bad....it is just the manner in which it was done. There is a difference between saying "I don't really agree with you and here is why" and using personal attacks to make your point. Getting hung up on him calling it "Fact" caused the discussion to be more of a critique of his delivery rather than the subject matter itself. That's just how I read some of it anyways....but that may not have been the intent at all. It is difficult to convey tone in text....

...I used a personal attack? When? I never called him a name, or attacked his person. I criticized his post. That's it. In fact, I only saw one post that I would consider "mean".

Re: this:

Getting hung up on him calling it "Fact" caused the discussion to be more of a critique of his delivery rather than the subject matter itself.

I actually really had nothing to add to his overall point- the point of being able to add anything we want to our Wants list issue was addressed by plenty of the other members, and was the only difference in opinion I had from Dan. My sole issue is with his wording (which we've beaten to death at this point). In fact, if the study had been presented in a different way, I would have found it interesting and neat on a few levels.

And yeah- tone, humor, and sarcasm are all a bear to figure out on the internets.

 

[erudolf]

...I used a personal attack? When? I never called him a name, or attacked his person. I criticized his post. That's it. In fact, I only saw one post that I would consider "mean".

Re: this:



I actually really had nothing to add to his overall point- the point of being able to add anything we want to our Wants list issue was addressed by plenty of the other members, and was the only difference in opinion I had from Dan. My sole issue is with his wording (which we've beaten to death at this point). In fact, if the study had been presented in a different way, I would have found it interesting and neat on a few levels.

And yeah- tone, humor, and sarcasm are all a bear to figure out on the internets.

Ok....another example of people reading too much into things!!!! I never said YOU = Abyssinian28. I was using the word "you" as a catch all pronoun for whoever may be reading the post at the time. There were (in my opinion) some personal attacks in this thread. Did I say that Abyssinian28 said them....NO!

And I don't think Cicada's post was singling you out either. We were referring to people in general. You just happened to be the one responding to his post.

 

[Abyssinian28]

Ok....another example of people reading too much into things!!!! I never said YOU = Abyssinian28. I was using the word "you" as a catch all pronoun for whoever may be reading the post at the time. There were (in my opinion) some personal attacks in this thread. Did I say that Abyssinian28 said them....NO!

And I don't think Cicada's post was singling you out either. We were referring to people in general. You just happened to be the one responding to his post.

That's it...I'm out. I don't stick around to be online "yelled" at- especially when I don't particularly care about the topic.

 

[erudolf]

That's it...I'm out. I don't stick around to be online "yelled" at- especially when I don't particularly care about the topic.

I'm at a completely loss.....I wasn't yelling you. I was just trying to make it clear that I wasn't accusing you of anything. I give up. It doesn't seem like anyone can post anything on this thread without someone taking it the wrong way....:dunno:

This is reminding me of that radio spoof about the HR lady trying to plan a company Holiday party....

 

[erudolf]

The following joke is another lesson in why getting consensus never works.


Holiday Party Announcement

[Thanks to Dr. M. Ferrato]
Company’s Holiday Party
FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: Everyone
RE: Christmas Party
DATE: December 1
I’m happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will take place on December 23, starting at noon in the banquet room at Luigi’s Open Pit Barbecue. No-host bar, but plenty of eggnog! We’ll have a small band playing traditional carols. Feel free to sing along. And don’t be surprised if our CEO shows up dressed as Santa Claus!
**********
FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 2
RE: Christmas Party
In no way was yesterday’s memo intended to exclude our Jewish employees. We recognize that Chanukah is an important holiday which often coincides with Christmas, though unfortunately not this year. However, from now on we’re calling it our “Holiday Party.”
The same policy applies to employees who are celebrating Kwanzaa at this time. Happy now?
**********
FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 3
RE: Holiday Party
Regarding the note I received from a member of Alcoholics Anonymous requesting a non-drinking table, you didn’t sign your name. I’m happy to accommodate this request, but if I put a sign on a table that reads, “AA Only,” you wouldn’t be anonymous anymore. How am I supposed to handle this?
Somebody?
**********
FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 7
RE: Holiday Party
What a diverse company we are! I had no idea that December 20 begins the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which forbids eating, drinking and sex during daylight hours. There goes the party! Seriously, we can appreciate how a luncheon this time of year does not accommodate our Muslim employees’ beliefs. Perhaps Luigi’s can hold off on serving your meal until the end of the party. The days are so short this time of year or else package everything for take-home in little foil swans. Will that work?
Meanwhile, I’ve arranged for members of Overeaters Anonymous to sit farthest from the dessert buffet and pregnant women will get the table closest to the restrooms. Did I miss anything?
**********
FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 8
RE: Holiday Party
So December 22 marks the Winter Solstice. What do you expect me to do, a tap-dance on your heads? Fire regulations at Luigi’s prohibit the burning of sage by our “earth-based Goddess-worshipping” employees, but we’ll try to accommodate your shamanic drumming circle during the band’s breaks.
Okay???
**********
FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
Date: December 9
RE: Holiday Party
People, people, nothing sinister was intended by having our CEO dress up like Santa Claus! Even if the anagram of “Santa” does happen to be “Satan,” there is no evil connotation to our own “little man in a red suit.” It’s a tradition, folks, like sugar shock at Halloween or family feuds over the Thanksgiving turkey or broken hearts on Valentine’s Day.
Could we lighten up?
**********
FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 10
RE: Holiday Party
Vegetarians!?!?!? I’ve had it with you people!!! We’re going to keep this party at Luigi’s Open Pit Barbecue whether you like it or not, so you can sit quietly at the table furthest from the “grill of death,” as you so quaintly put it, and you’ll get your #$%^@*! salad bar, including hydroponic tomatoes… But you know, they have feelings, too. Tomatoes scream when you slice them. I’ve heard them scream. I’m hearing them scream right now!
**********
FROM: Teri Bishop, Acting Human Resources Director
DATE: December 14
RE: Pat Lewis and Holiday Party
I’m sure I speak for all of us in wishing Pat Lewis a speedy recovery from her stress-related illness and I’ll continue to forward your cards to her at the sanatorium. In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our Holiday Party and give everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with full pay.
Happy Holidays!

 

[unibear]

On a completely different "note": Dan, I have a huge issue with the tone of post #60. It has 2 1/2 beats in one measure, 4 1/2 beats in the next, and then 4 in the last! What's up with that?? (JOKE!)

 

[gbdb4ever]

Pluto is a planet. FACT.

Pluto is a planet????? I thought he was Mickey's dog.

 

[iamdisneydan]

Good one gdbd4ever.
And we have a musician in the house. (I dont speak in time, I sometimes lose the beat...lol)
Erudolf, thanks for the example. There is always something. From here on it's all opinions...... (and I cant leave anyone out)
And if anyone was yelling WOULDN'T IT LOOK LIKE THIS?
and one last thing, pins backwards is snip so lets flip the snip and get back to pins.

Now I will go back to my chalkboard.

iamdisneydan has idea's, opinion's & theory's which are not facts
iamdisneydan has idea's, opinion's & theory's which are not facts
iamdisneydan has idea's, opinion's & theory's which are not facts
iamdisneydan has idea's, opinion's & theory's which are not facts
iamdisneydan has idea's, opinion's & theory's which are not facts

Facts are facts and must be true and not debateable
Facts are facts and must be true and not debateable
Facts are facts and must be true and not debateable
Facts are facts and must be true and not debateable
Facts are facts and must be true and not debateable

iamdisneydan should use spellcheck
iamdisneydan should use spellcheck
iamdisneydan should use spellcheck
iamdisneydan should use spellcheck
iamdisneydan should use spellcheck

I think I got it now.........

 

[PinKitten]

and...scene. :lol:

 

[iamdisneydan]

Thats a wrap.

 

[Cicada]

What a shame. Was good while it lasted!

 

[Rocke01]

awe.... come on.... I KNOW Dan can get things riled up again! He is great at it! Everyone has a right to their opinion and the right to express them as long as it is not against DPF rules. I disagree with Dan often and often read his postings just so I can comment on them because we have a different view point on things. I LOVE a good debate! You can not have a good debate without having differing opinions. I applaud Dan for being able to say he learned enough through others postings to have a change of opinion as that is what we call growth. Not many would post that and truthfully I did not think he would... (LOL, sorry Dan). We all have our beliefs and hopefully we can all listen and read with open minds. We do not have to agree and we can state that. We can agree and we can state that. We each have a right to our beliefs. I think that is what needs to be mentioned here. I am sorry that some felt singled out as I felt that EVERY ONES thoughts were merited here. I also felt that some were really passionate about these feelings. I know I was passionate about the statements concerning people not being able to afford pins due to their trades list and collections list as I felt I was the perfect example of the opposite of that. That was the thing that prompted me to comment. I use to use my collection listing as a list of pins I had coming in trades to help keep track instead of my actual collection and it is still not an actual accounting of all the pins I/we own. In reading these entries it was obvious that others were passionate about this as well. This is what makes a truly great debate. Although I feel that some felt attacked I think it was each of our passions seeping to the fore front of the debate and not actually any malice intended. In our debate we can only state our opinions... (NOT fact.... LOL.... couldn't resist) and give each other food for thought. If our opinions manage to sway someones thought processes then we have been successful in our debating process. In this section Dan admitted to rethinking some of the things that were written. I do realize the Dan does have very defined opinions on things but it was nice to hear that he still takes the time to listen in between the typing of yet another topic for debate or dare I say ridicule... (couldn't resist that one either). You keep writing them Dan and I will keep commenting... LOL