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Scrapper Alert!!!!!!!!!

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Scrapper Alert!!!!!!!!!
A

Allib

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I sent out some trade requests for a pin my daughter has and received a couple of responses in which people had questions about the exact color of the pin and also the size of the sand on the pin. In my opinion here is a perfect example of the chicken little syndrome when it comes to "scrappers".

The comments for the pin say this:

"Scrapper Alert: the sand along the bottom as well with all the lines may be almost twice the size. In addition, the scrapper version may be a lighter gold color that is less "reddish" than the authentic."

I understand that not everyone that trades is on Pinpics but in my opinion the wants to trades ratio can give us a very good idea of how desired a pin is....not the entire vote but an exit poll if you will. The trade ratio on this pin is 64 people wanting and 38 people trading which seems pretty reasonable to me for a pin this age.

The fact that one person has the OPINION that there is a pin that "may be a lighter color gold" and "the sand along the bottom as well with all the line may be twice the size" makes it nearly impossible to trade this pin. Honestly I won't bother to trade it unless I know the other person well, why risk someone posting negative feedback or wanting me to waste time and money trading back because of one person's OPINION. I think there are countless pin in the PP database with similar warnings that may not have any basis in reality.

While I have no doubt that there are scrappers and fakes among us I think the chicken little syndrome (scrapper alert, scrapper alert, scrapper alert) may do more damage to the hobby than the scrappers do.

Mike
 
I think if PinPics allowed pictures of the bad pin to be added it would be better than just descriptions because if you do not have the original then the comparison does you no good anyway. While it does make it harder to trade your real pin when it talks about scrappers I appreciate the "heads up" anyway otherwise I would not even know what to look for or if to look at all. I think it could be done better but the alert to a possible scrapper is important and I for one like the alerts.
 
Mike, I tend to agree entirely! This also runs along the lines of a thread that Dan started a little while ago - there are a hell of a lot of personal opinions which make trading a significant amount of pins either difficult or impossible. I believe that a lot of the individual comments are based on hearsay or rumour or may indeed hold no weight whatsoever for some of the reasons Dan mentioned - end of paint run etc etc which makes the pin authentic.

I'll admit that I for one am finding it more difficult to trade what we have because of these types of comments etc & I have taken some pins off of my trade list to stop any potential interest & therefore prevent any negative feedback.
 
Here is another example:

http://pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=49279&sid=4901.1288721840.v2

Not a single person trading this pin but it has this warning:

"It is highly suspected that there are unauthorized versions of this pin being sold on the secondary market. Every pin released by Disney has the potential of being a scrapper. Once again, no one can guarantee the authenticity of any Disney pin unless it was purchased directly from Disney."

Highly suspected by who? The FBI? The State Police? The Disney Company? The Pin Trading Community? The single person that wrote the warning?

My guess is that the last answer is most likely correct.

Again I'm not saying there isn't a problem but the fact that anyone can label a pin as not authenic for any reason is a problem in my opinion.
 
Here is the problem.
How does the person screamimg like Chicken Little know this. Have they personally bought an authentic pin? and then traded for another one?
I am not saying that I guess some people want more than one of a given pin but what basis do they have to go by.

While I write many reports about scrappers, I have time and time again mentioned that right off the rack, you will find color variations and differences. The mickey pattern on the back with borders is pretty cut and dry, but again, and I know some of you have done this, go to the racks right in disneyland (I have done this with many people many times) take all 8 - 15 pins off the rack of the same pin and bring them to the counter and lay them all out to inspect.

You will swear there are (SCRAPPERS) right on the board once you see the color variations. The dies change a bit from the 1st to the 10,000th pin and this is normal.

YES! People who really have no right to post a warning can do so and they may not even be sure. People need to relax especially when it is a slight color variation. If Minnies bow shold be red and its green or pink, that is a fidderent story but if the red is not quite the same, as long as its a form of red, it is ok.

Relax peple and I also know what you mean about the ratios and possible bad feedback from an uneducated trader. Its not fair. I feel your pain.
 
I will admit that the the scrapper warnings have stopped me from trying to get certain pins, specifically, the Hidden Mickeys. I have always been a fan of the HMs, but I have seen way too many scrappers out there. I go to Disneyland once a year, and trading for the HMs on pinpics or buying them online is hit or miss (in my experience, mostly misses.). Do you think that the ideas of scrapper pins being everywhere can easily be shaken off? I will admit that I have a hard time ignoring the warnings. Can you suggest a good way to collect the HMs?

As for the color variations of pins, I have seen that on rack pins while they are still on the rack! I kind of like the variations sometimes. Makes the pin look more unique.
 
Can you suggest a good way to collect the HMs?
What we do is just collect for fun and don't get caught up in the scrapper thing, if we find an HM pin we need my daughter trades for it, puts it on her board and enjoys it. No microscopic investigation, no smelling, no internet reasearch....on the board it goes and she is on to the next trade.

Mike
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Mike, I took a look at that pin you linked earlier. Being an LE15, I am not surprised to see 0 people trading it. Therefore, I would suspect the scrapper warning for just that reason. If there were bad pins out there, I would think there would be people listing it as a trader. I would be curious to see how many people claim to own the pin. In a thread on DizPins, people had made suggestions for upgrades to PinPics. One suggestion was to be able to see how many people have listed a pin as owned. This would be an easy way to see if a pin had been compromised. If 100 people claim to own an LE15, then you could pretty much be assured that that pin had been scrapped or counterfeited.
 
DisneyScouter said:
Mike, I took a look at that pin you linked earlier. Being an LE15, I am not surprised to see 0 people trading it. Therefore, I would suspect the scrapper warning for just that reason. If there were bad pins out there, I would think there would be people listing it as a trader. I would be curious to see how many people claim to own the pin. In a thread on DizPins, people had made suggestions for upgrades to PinPics. One suggestion was to be able to see how many people have listed a pin as owned. This would be an easy way to see if a pin had been compromised. If 100 people claim to own an LE15, then you could pretty much be assured that that pin had been scrapped or counterfeited.
Click to expand...

I agree that this would be an awesome feature. However, I think that there are a lot of people who don't keep their pinpics "current". So, it may work say if 100 people claim they own a LE15, but it may be hard to determine if say 20 claim they own it.
 
Spiffie said:
I agree that this would be an awesome feature. However, I think that there are a lot of people who don't keep their pinpics "current". So, it may work say if 100 people claim they own a LE15, but it may be hard to determine if say 20 claim they own it.
Click to expand...

I agree it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. Anyone who has traded on Pinpics much has certainly got a response from someone saying they will trade and replying again later saying they can't find the pin or it's the wrong pin so does 20 people owning an LE 15 mean there are fakes or does it mean several people traded and didn't take it off their list or does it mean it's similar to another pin and people have their mismarked?
 
I like what you mentioned Disney Scouter.
My Daughter has a LE1 which was given to her by the artist and signed as a special gift for something she had done for the artist.
We looked it up on pinpics and there were 3 people trading it.

I think what happens with PP's and AP's is people just make a mistake and mark the wrong pin. They see the pin and dont read the description.
In the case of an LE15, that may be different. I agree with this.

There was an LE50 pin that when trading at the park, in one day I saw 5 of them. That just did not seem right. I always thought it would be crazy to trade for these pins and get 50 of them together and see who says they still have them and prove a point.

But as I have said before, like many of you, while I try to educate people to know the differences, I dont actually get totally caught up in it. As mentioned, we have tons of cool counterfeit pins, especially vinylmations that have never actually been made by Disney. And when it comes to HM's, if you need it, get it. Its a $3.00 pin and the scrapper is pretty much worth the same so it should not be a money issue.

The problem is some people think one day they will retire from their collection. Sure there are 4 - $500 pins but we are talking about the lower end of the spectrum. When I am trading for everyday rack pins, we like it, we get it.
 
Do keep in mind that there are only about 1,599 pins on Pinpics with Unauthorized or Scrapper in their description. Given that there are currently 80,925 listings on Pinpics I don't think it is THAT big of an issue. Yeah, some may be false alarms, but I think that is the vast minority. Flipping through the unauthorized/scrapper pages I recognize a lot of them as being problem pins that I had seen.

If you are primarily a hidden Mickey collector this will definitely feel like a bigger issue because those are the pins most often affected.
 
get the hms as soon as they come out is the best way to get 99% legit ones....that being said sometimes there are new ones immediately scrapped(or even before theyre released)
 
While it isnt perfect it is at best the only system we have. I agree with many here, there just is not a single solution.
Perhaps the best solution is just what we are all doing here,
EDUCATION.
The more informed in both content and substance each of us is about our hobby the less likely we are to be taken in, likewise we maybe able to help others whom arent as well educated.
 
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