The Disney 52 Animated Challenge: Year-Long Activity! NOW PLAYING: Nightmare Before Christmas

Discussion in 'DPF Game Room' started by MerlinEmrys, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    If you guys are around, you can hop into the chat! (I won't be there tonight, but others usually are! :))

    Also, I'll be closing this week's in about an hour. :)

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  2. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    Did I really forget to press submit? So here we have another oscar nominated film from 1977, Pete's Dragon.
    [​IMG]
    1. Overall Impression.
    This film was an interesting watch as I had not once seen it before. I believe that I must have saw a a shortened version as the digital copy I viewed listed it as 1hour, 47 minutes. It was a very family friendly musical with sprinkling of adult humor that would go unnoticed by children.
    This is one film that Don Bluth is featured exclusively as the animation director, not surprising that there is only one as it is for Elliot's animations alone. While past movies with live action sequences seemed to use animation to signify a transition to another world/place, the use of animating a sole "magical" Dragon would bring it a step in what would be used a decade later in Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
    I thought that the animation, while a bit jarring was on par or better then it's predecessors. The music itself was very 70's inspired, especially the song nominated for the 1978 oscars, Candle on the water, which sounded very similar to the other nominees as it was a 70's folk-pop ballad.

    2. Character Analysis
    Elliot reminds me very much of another anthromorphic character from the era, Scooby Doo. It's probably his proximity in sound to Frank Welker but his dog like loyalty, excessive eating habits, fear, and other small quirks made me think they might have used him as a base for Elliot.

    5. Symbolism,
    I'm trying to think when the movie took place as it was wierd that the adoption papers of the Gogans kept being called a bill of sale, as if he truely was a slave. It was easily contrasted by the fact the town was desegregated.

    8. Progressions
    It seems that this film continues the kidnapped/abused child trope akin with the Rescuers, also released in 1977. Both also feature young children who are given the benefit of the doubt of an overactive imagination when it comes to explaining their predicaments.



    10. Representative pin
    Pin 92208 DSF - Beloved Tales - Pete's Dragon
    [​IMG]

    One of the few pins featuring both Pete and Elliot, this also does a great job showcasing their friendship. Ironically, Pete looks a bit like Christopher Robin in animated form...
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  3. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Caught me just as I was about to do the cut off. :)

    But @coblj003 you only have answered 4 questions as far as I can see. You need to answer 5 for it to count. :) go ahead and hammer out another answer real quick while I get the images ready ;)

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  4. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    I thought I already pressed submit hours ago, the spare thoughts I had are also gone...
     
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  5. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Oh no! :( well, you've got your 5 answers in, so that's good enough to count for now. Feel free to go back and add those spare thoughts if you drum them up again!

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  6. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    [​IMG]
    Fox and the Hound (1981)

    Monday is our "wrap-up" discussion on Pete's Dragon. So you're welcome to respond to other analyses throughout the day.

    However, you may not post any more full analyses for Pete's Dragon to count for completion toward the 52 Challenge. No late homework. ;P

    ~Merlin
     
  7. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Get those tissues ready, gang. It's gonna be a rough week. XD
     
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  8. NutMeg

    NutMeg I tie my own sandals.

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    Yeaaahhhh... I'm definitely not jumping back in for this one. You are sick, twisted bastards, FatH filmmakers. It's like they watched Bambi and were like "nah, we can scar kids for life better than this."

    [​IMG]

    And this is why parents should always watch a movie themselves before letting their kids view it. THANKS MOM. >.<

    I'm definitely gonna have to get my butt back into gear after this week, though - some of my faves are coming up! I'm way overdue for a Great Mouse Detective re-watch. Also, I have some words for The Little Mermaid. xD
     
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  9. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Go read the wiki summary for the book it's based one. You'll think this movie is a flipping cake walk. XD

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  10. NutMeg

    NutMeg I tie my own sandals.

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    *reads Wikipedia entry*

    ......................................

    Do you... do you actually hate me...?

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. NutMeg

    NutMeg I tie my own sandals.

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    Also, WTF Disney? Why did you choose this book?? Because it had animals in the title???
     
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  12. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    BECAUSE I COULDN'T BE THE ONLY ONE WHO KNEW!

    Like, seriously, that book is nuts. But too, this film caused a schism in the animation department--Don Bluth left with several other animators and started his own studio, so it's a pretty significant film.
     
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  13. PixiePost

    PixiePost Previously SoraPandora

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    Whoa. It never even occurred to me that The Fox and the Hound was a novel first. I just read the plot summary on Wikipedia. Seriously - WTF DISNEY. Why?!

    [​IMG]


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  14. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    LIKE, WHO ON THE BOARD WAS LIKE: "Guys, I just read the craziest book and it'll be a great kids movie!!"

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  15. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    Oh gosh, now I feel like I should avoid that at all costs...
     
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  16. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Seriously. It's insane. And won a lot of awards....

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  17. NutMeg

    NutMeg I tie my own sandals.

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    OK, OK. It is now our shared trauma. Let the healing process begin.

    I always suspected that Bluth had a pretty significant influence on the film, in spite of his own dissatisfaction with it. It just has that old-school Bluth vibe, ya know? (Looking at you, equally traumatic Land Before Time.) But it actually just occurred to me that - *gasp* - I might not have Anastasia if not for FatH...

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. NutMeg

    NutMeg I tie my own sandals.

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    Which is even more unbelievable when you consider how utterly artless it is in terms of metaphors and overall theme (this much is clear from the plot summary alone.) "More housing developments are built, and the farmers are pushed out... The other foxes that remain become unhealthy scavengers, and their natures change— life-bonds with their mates are replaced by promiscuity, couples going their separate ways once the mating act is over." Well gee, 60's era novel written by an old dude, I wonder what social commentary you're trying to make there. xD
     
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  19. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    *reads book plot summary* Clearly not something for children
    It reminds me of a hungarian book that is also about the life of a young fox - but there the fox clearly wins. It's not a piece of cake, either but has a happy ending. It was still not labelled as a book for children but as a novel about animals. It was turned into a very cute animated movie, too, that was released in english under the title The little fox.
    *hopes this one helps to get over The Fox and the Hound trauma and goes back studying*
     
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  20. pretty Omi

    pretty Omi Resident Smol Wolf

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    I know that story and film! Loved it as a kid
     
  21. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    After reading the book summary, most of it reminds me quite a bit of Pom Poko..
     
  22. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

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    Ok glad I'm not the only one missing this one! After all these posts, don't think I'll need to see this either! Thanks for the warning!:(
     
  23. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    I guess I’ve avoided this movie long enough. So, here I go:

    1. My overall impression of the movie… Several things:

    First off, this movie seems to have something to say about hunting in general, and hunters (Amos) specifically…
    • There are a couple of gun deaths (Tod’s mother and a pheasant), but they are both played off-screen with gunshot sounds and startled birds/a plume of feathers in the air. Still pretty dramatic and scary for a Disney movie.
    • Chief tells Copper than hunting isn’t just about sniffing and tracking—it's about thinking nasty!
    • Amos sure is reckless and indiscriminate with his shooting! I sure hope that no hunter would shoot after a moving car because a fox was in the back of it. He could have killed Widow Tweed! He was also willing to barge into Widow Tweed’s house with a shotgun to kill her pet! He doesn’t seem to care about life or the law…
    • They also play Amos being a bad shot as being funny or comic relief. He shoots several times at Tod (with Copper and Chief near him) and misses a lot. That doesn’t make indiscriminate shooting OK. In this respect, the movie feels a lot like “The Dukes of Hazzard” (and the redneck harmonica music also draws parallels), where the Dukes were always being shot at by the ineffective sheriff and his deputy. I never saw this as funny…
    • Amos decides to break into the game preserve to get Tod, even though hunting is clearly forbidden. Also, using the foot traps seemed pretty violent, even if he never caught a fox and did catch himself… Again, the law doesn't seem to matter as much as his selfish wants.
    • Amos doesn’t really seem to care for or love Chief much. When Chief was in the house after falling and breaking his leg, Amos basically ignores him by downplaying his injury (“Get back in there before I break your other leg.”).
    • Amos is willing to use his dog, shotgun fire, and actual fire to kill Tod (and Vixey). His revenge appears to be at “Moby Dick” levels.

    I have to say that the “comic relief” of the two birds continually chasing after the caterpillar felt like a waste of time and effort. It never seemed to go anywhere and defied credibility (Why hadn’t the birds migrated before the snow arrived? Why hadn’t the caterpillar metamorphosed? A year seems like a long time to be a caterpillar… Why weren’t the birds interested in eating a butterfly? Food is food…)

    Also, I wonder how the author (Daniel P Mannix) felt about the “Disneyfication” of his book. He was much praised for his realistic descriptions of fox and dog behavior, based on a fair amount of actual research into their behavior. The movie, on the other hand, appears to be very different from the book in substance and intent, and the characters were given many “human” behaviors (and voices!) that seems to be in direct conflict with the book author’s intent…


    2. and 3. (and 4.) The character I chose to analyze was the Widow Tweed, and the scene I chose to analyze was her goodbye scene with Tod (also a song, “Goodbye May Seem Forever”). She is the prototypical mother figure. When she finds Tod and adopts him, she even feeds him with a baby bottle! She named him Tod, after the word ‘toddler’ (although I think I read that Tod means ‘fox’ in some language, maybe Latin?). She also acts as a mother, trying to make him learn from his actions (scaring the cow, making Chief and Amos mad by “chasing chickens”, etc.).

    Most importantly, Widow Tweed is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice as a mother. She dropped Tod off at the game preserve to save his life. This scene (and the song) is incredibly sad—I think it’s the saddest part of the entire film (“And I found out I needed you too!”, “And now I find we're both alone”, etc.). Because of the selfishness/vindictive nature of Amos, Widow Tweed has to break up her family. But she knew it was the best thing for Tod, even though it was breaking her (and his) heart.

    The writers played this song for real, and it was very moving. As someone who has had to put down two cats (16- and 19-year olds who just got too sick), this song was a kick in the gut. I felt like I was reliving the gut-wrenching decisions I had to make for their best interests even though they both broke my heart. I had to stop the movie at this point for a break, and a couple of hugs from my current kitties. I can’t help but feel this scene would be very traumatic for children who had lost a pet (or loved one) to death, or even just had to give them up. I also wonder how I feel about the question of whether Disney movies are supposed to be fun and entertain, or if they are supposed to represent and prepare children for the real (nasty) world…


    4., 6., and 7. The song I chose to analyze (other than “Goodbye May Seem Forever”) was “Best of Friends”, which along with the quote from Tod about himself and Copper: “We’ll keep on being friends forever. Won’t we Big Momma?” (the phrase I chose to analyze) seems to convey the whole point of the movie (although not necessarily the book upon which it was based).

    “If only the world wouldn't get in the way; If only people would just let you play; They say you're both being fools; You're breaking all the rules; They can't understand; The magic of your wonderland”.

    The song seems like a feel-good buddy song, but it is filled with foreboding that most kids probably missed while they were watching the cute animation. The whole premise of the movie is that the fox and the hound become friends as pups even though they are supposed to be enemies. Tod seems to be more willing or able to resist the “natural impulses” (“society”) telling them not to be friends. Copper tries to resist, but he is the one who underwent training (“to impose the societal constraints”, even though there are probably huge natural impulses at play here as well…). When he comes back and sees Tod again, he’s happy to see his friend, but he’s afraid of what would happen if Chief or Amos saw Tod because they will play by the societal rules and kill Tod.

    Copper turned on Tod when Tod caused Chief to fall off the railroad tracks, although in the movie at least it didn’t seem like Tod was trying to kill Chief, only to get away from him. In the end, Tod saved Copper and Amos from the bear even though they were there to kill him and Copper saved Tod from Amos’s shotgun, and they parted their ways—I would say, as friends. I didn’t really feel that the end of the movie was all that sad… I mean, everybody lived, and Tod and Copper seemed to be friends, albeit a bit distant…


    5. I symbol I chose to analyze was Copper’s rope, which I believe represents the societal constraints (and natural urges) being imposed on Copper. As a pup, he was not tied up and was allowed the freedom to roam about. That was how he met and became friends with Tod, who should have been his mortal enemy. When Amos and Chief found Copper fraternizing with the enemy, he was tied up to a barrel. This represented the end of his freedom to do whatever he wanted. It also represented him becoming an actual hunting dog, complete with the societal expectations of him hunting and killing foxes. Copper may have resisted these pressures, but he did eventually succumb to them, as society dictates.


    8. This movie continues to build on (and recycle) previous motifs used in other Disney movies. These include:
    • It feels an awful lot like a rehash of “Bambi” but played a little more heavy-handed? It starts out as “the cutesy woodland hour” with the play of Copper and Tod pups (kind of overdosing on the cuteness factor), but rapidly becomes a terrifying hunter snuff film.
    • The voice recycling still bothers me quite a bit. I suppose the Chief = LaFayette from “Aristocats” isn’t so bad, but I couldn’t get over the Woodpecker = Tigger and the Porcupine = Piglet voices. The Woodpecker even laughs like Tigger does! Although voice recycling doesn’t have to be just about Disney—Amos Slade, the (sexist) redneck hunter = The Man (from “Chico and the Man”), the (racist) gas station owner.


    9. I wanted to avoid the obvious fox pup playing with hound pup scenes, even though they are iconic. I chose instead to use this scene of Copper protecting Tod from Amos’s shotgun.

    [​IMG]


    10. There aren’t many pins to choose from but I wanted one with adult Tod and Copper showing that they might be friends, but not so friendly. So I chose this pin (122714).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
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  24. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Guys. Guys I'm shook. That was a tough watch. XD oh man.

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  25. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    Watched it earlier this week, to a degree I think expecting the "Disney" (should we start calling it that or what?) moment probably lessened it's impact, Bambi by contrast was definitely way more shocking...
     
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