The Disney 52 Animated Challenge: Year-Long Activity - NOW PLAYING: Princess and the Frog

Discussion in 'DPF Game Room' started by MerlinEmrys, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    ME during Zootopia week:

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    No, wait, wait....sorry. GET OUT OF HERE, MEAT CAT!

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    Actually me during Zootopia week (and Lion King week, and Wreck-It Ralph week) :

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    AND INCIDENTALLY...The Wreck-It Ralph review week is the week after Wreck-It Ralph 2 comes out in theaters! I will be on a WIR high, y'all!
     
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  2. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    WiR2 may or may not be a hidden secret bonus analysis for that very reason ;P

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     
  3. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    [​IMG]
     
  4. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    Let's see if it fits in one post this time:
    Edit: Yes it does, I didn't have that much to say :(
    7/15 – 7/21: Nightmare Before Christmas (1993)
    1. What is your overall impression of the film? Some possible talking points include: what you did or did not like about it; what about the film has stuck with you; what did you find different on this viewing; how would modern audiences respond to this (for the older films)… The list goes on. Hahah!
    I’ve seen this movie only once before some years ago and I only remembered that they sing a lot and the outlines of the plot. Oh and that curly hill Jack stands on by himself at the beginning and together with Sally in the end. The movie has mostly little light and this light is often moonlight, so everything is set up for a good scary Halloween. (I have to add that we don’t really celebrate Halloween over here, although we do know that holiday – but as a child, I did not know it existed. Our dress up holiday is in February. But Halloween is becoming really popular now but I don’t think it’s like how people celebrate in the USA.)
    It also borrows well-known Christmas elements like the story of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (Zero) or Christmas Carols.
    The villain was not really scary but that is hard in a town where everybody is scary and the winner of the most scary prize is actually our hero.
    The stop motion technique they used for it is also new.
    I actually prefer Corpse Bride over The Nightmare before Christmas but it was nice and interesting to rewatch this movie.


    2. Choose one specific character to analyze. You can explore how a character acts, what they say, how they dress, etc. to explain what they may represent or their function and meaning in the narrative. Try to avoid obvious "plot" stuff (ex: the Evil Queen is a villain, so her purpose is to be bad...), but explore unique and specific elements about the character (ex: the EQ is surrounded by images of peacocks, further suggesting her obsession with vanity). You may also use these elements to explain why you connected or disconnected from the character.
    I chose Sally beause she’s the one I connected with the most. She’s the only not so scary inhabitant of Halloweentown and she has the most colors in Halloweentown (That shows better on her merchandise) This reflects in what Santa said, that she’s the only one that has the correct idea what Christmas should be like – Cristmastown is colorful, too.
    She’s restless and resourceful if it means getting what she wants – like escaping from her home, from her creator Dr. Finklestein, or trying to save Santa. She also has special abilities like seeing into the future – knowing something bad is going to hppen if they really do this Halloween Christmas. She’s also a talented seamstress which is fitting as she is a ragdoll. She is very clever using this ragdoll thing, that she can pull herself apart. She has to take care of her creator, he’s like a father who forbids her to go out and even locks her up – I get some Rapunzel feelings here although Tangled came much later. I think she’s theone who know the most about the world in Halloweentown as she’s the only one who understands Christmas. She might be the one who keeps things together just like the threads keep together her body.


    3. Choose one specific scene or sequence to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? Your analysis could include the scene’s use of color, action, camera angles, music, character development, setting, backdrop, style, etc. If you can justify it with evidence from the scene, then it’s an analysis!
    I think I’ll go with Jacks visit to Christmastown. It is very different and it actually has bright colors as opposed to Halloweentown where it is dark and the colors muted and greyish. Jack beeing black and white, being Halloweentowncolored, doesn’t really understand that but gets that the positive feelings. From the black and white and orange – typical Halloween colors – world he travels through a blue part and lands in a still darkish place but everything is nice and blue the darkness is much softer. And then he spots the bright colorful Christmastown that is lit up with colorful lights. Even his scull turns a pinkis color as it reflects the lights of Christmastown. It is supposed to make the great difference between the holidays visible. The lights are very different, too, much more and warmer.
    Pictures to show these changes:
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    4. Choose one song to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? What purpose does this song have in the film and does it succeed in that purpose?
    I’ll go with Sallys short little song. It’s a bit scary like all the songs but it has some more sadness to it than the others. It presents everything Sally is: that she is worried about the Halloween Christmas, worried about what’s going to happen because she failed with her plan to keep him from going off and that she loves Jack but he doesn’t notice that and she thinks he never will. She also states that she wishes she could like this plan of Jacks but simply can’t. (Beeing Jack’s, the one she loves’ plan doesn’t make it automatically perfect.)


    5. Choose one specific symbol in the film to analyze. A symbol is typically something inanimate, an object, rather than a character. So don’t say “Brer Bear represents dumb people,” as that’s more of a character analysis than a symbol. Rather, think about specific objects (jewelry, clothing, houses, food, weapons, etc.) What does this symbol mean and how does that meaning impact the film?
    Snow and snowflakes are my choice this time as a symbol of connection between the holidays. Snow is not only for Christmas it is winter, so it can connect the worlds. It is the first thing Jack interacts with when going to Christmastown. (Snowflakes around him as he travels and tasting and tasting snow as a mass when he arrives) Santa also think of it as a connection as this is the one thing he gives the inhabitants of Halloweentown for Christmas – a part of the Christmas magic that works just as well with Halloween. it is white so it works for both worlds colorwise as well.


    6. Choose a single line of dialog that you find to be the most significant/impactful line in the film and why. You can be a little loose with the “single line” bit, but let’s not go for Maleficent’s entire monologue to Philip... Rather, something like Stitch’s “This is my family. I found it all on my own. It’s little, and broken, but still good. Yeah – still good.” (brb weeping).
    “There’s got to be a logical way to explain this Christmas thing.”
    It shows Jacks way of thinking, that Jack got it wrong from the start, thinking Christmas is something that can be analized on a physical level and so explain those strange feelings it ewoke in him. This thought is why Jack actually turned Christmas into a disaster


    7. What is this film’s overall goal? Is it to teach a specific lesson (what is it) or get an emotional response (such as)? Or both? And how well or poorly does the film succeed in that goal? Be specific!
    I think it tries to teach aboutmore things – best to stay with the job you’re best at. (That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try new things!) Switching like Jack did is the best method to end it in disaster. Maybe it also tries to teach to accept things that are different from what we know and like and shouldn’t turn it inside out just to make it match our own taste.
    It also teaches about thing invisible: Jack tries to nail down what Christmas is about with scientific methods but he fails – Christmas Magic is not something you can look at through a microscope yet it does exist.
    It shows those things quite well, I only don’t understand how Jack suddenly did understand that he did everything wrong. Just from the shoots aimed at him?


    8. What connections or progressions do you see in this film to past films? Example: how does Sleeping Beauty progress (or digress?) the princess archetype built in Cinderella? Be specific! Also, consider what use there is in returning to or re-imagining those elements?
    I think Sally has some connections to Rapunzel but she’s not like the princesses. She des sing about her love but not about finding it like previous princesses rather about not getting the happy ending. But she actually does get it.
    The whole movie is like the roles got exchanged – the hero and heroine are to be scary and they have few colors and those are as already mentioned muted, kids are more powerful than Santa and kidnap him.


    9. What is the iconic shot of the film? What single frame of animation do you find to be the most memorable and why? Post it! You can check out this link to find some great screencaps to help!
    I think I’ll go with this one, It has that ‘curly hill’ I remembered most from the movie, it catches the atmosphere perfectly and it has Jack. It’s where everything starts.

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    10. What single pin do you think best represents this film for you? Why? Give us the pin number and post a picture!
    I think This one represents the whole story, what happened to Christmas. Well, in short the Nightmare before Christmas :)
    Pin 25126 Disney Auctions - Nightmare Before Christmas (Jack Skellington)

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    Stray thoughts:
    Jack resembles a spider with those long skinny limbs of his. Daddy long legs!

    Did anybody get the feeling that these three places actually resemble each other a bit? And Sally kind of used a Rapunzel method to get out and was held in her room against her will, like Rapunzel.

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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  5. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    As with “Who Framed Roger Rabbit”, I had no idea that this Touchstone Movie was actually from the Disney studios!

    1. My overall impression of the movie… Several things:

    I never saw this movie before now! And I didn’t realize that I hadn’t seen it before until I actually saw it! I felt like I must have seen it at one time, but obviously it was all new to me right now. In my defense, I absolutely hated “Beetlejuice” and its very weird feel, and I guess I felt that this was going to be a rip-off of that movie. And while the opening song makes the movie feel like “Beetlejuice” (see below), by and large I found that I kind of liked this movie! Many of the characters are different than I had assumed they would be and the movie was actually quite fun to watch.

    I’ve seen the pins of the holiday doors, but I didn’t get what they were or what they meant. Now I think that those pins are that much cooler!

    [​IMG][​IMG] etc.

    I love that Jack read a book on “The Scientific Method” and did chemical experiments involving test tubes, beakers, Erlenmeyer flasks, and Florence flasks! Finally, some positive imagery for the chemical sciences!

    I was confused by Sally’s “vision” of the thistle becoming a Christmas tree and then igniting and burning. When I saw it, I didn’t know what it was or what it meant. Later, she implies that she had a premonition about Jack’s Sandy Claws run. I guess the thistle/tree/flame was a vision? Why would she have visions?

    It took me a while to see Zero as Rudolph! I saw Sally pick up the bottle of Fog Juice, but it wasn’t until she poured in water and it started making fog did it occur to me that “Zero, with your nose so bright… Won’t you lead my sleigh tonight?”


    2. and 8. Since I hadn’t seen this film before but was still so SURE I knew what it was about, I think I’ll talk about how these characters are different that I thought, based solely on the way Disney has marketed the movie (and makes pins of it). First off, I thought Jack Skellington was going to be more sinister/evil. Instead, he’s quite endearing and has a positive view on life (and Christmas); I’ll talk a bit more about him later. Second, I guess I assumed that Zero would talk and would be more like Tramp or Pongo than Pluto. Still, he’s quite endearing as a character and I quite like him. Third, the doctor who created Sally really feels like a one-note wonder—even though he serves a major plot point to make skeletal reindeer for Sandy Claws, he just feels like a lover scorned by Sally who is desperate to keep her from leaving him. Finally, I guess I had assumed that Lock, Shock, and Barrel were “adult” ghouls and not ghoulish children trick-or-treaters. It makes perfect sense in the movie, but I never got that from the pins made with these characters. I also never knew that one of them (Shock?) is a girl; I just assumed they were three boys, kind of like a ghoulish version of Huey, Dewey, and Louie…

    To continue the whole “progression” thing, this is the second “Disney” film to be released as through the Touchstone Studios. For both of them, it feels like Disney released them through Touchstone to hedge their bets against anyone who would say these movies aren’t “Disney” enough. For example, “Who Framed Roger Rabbit?” did have a rather risqué character design for Jessica, and it did deal with some of the Disney (and other animated characters) in a less than reverent way. For this film, it is a bit macabre and might be a bit scary for the little ones, and releasing it under the Disney Studios name could have led parents to take the young-uns to this film only to scare the bajeezes (sp?) out of them…

    3. and 4. The scene/song I chose to analyze is “This is Halloween”. The goal of this scene/song is to introduce the concept of Halloween Town and set the tone of the film. It does a good job of that, and I have to admit that it does make the film feel like a “Beetlejuice” knock-off and initially made me think that I’m going to hate this film. What is interesting here is that, even though Halloween can be scary and Halloween Town definitely plays up the scary images of Halloween, it becomes clear that the inhabitants aren’t evil or mean, even if they have a macabre bent to them. They seem to love their lives and don’t see Halloween Town and scary or mean or downbeat. It’s a very “Addams Family” feel—that they enjoy and revel in their strangeness and think that it is perfectly normal (and that WE’RE the weird ones!).


    7. I don’t know if my analysis actually matches what the writers had intended, but I came away with two take-home messages from this film.

    #1—This movie seems to come down on the side of nature in the whole nature vs. nurture debate. The reason I say this is because Jack is entranced and enthralled with the idea of Christmas, and he sees Christmas as a positive and wondrous event. He even notes in his song “What’s This?” how different Halloween and Christmas is, focusing on how scary Halloween is and that this “ghoulish” feel is completely missing in Christmas Town.

    When Jack tries to recreate (usurp?) Christmas, he does so in his and the Halloween Town inhabitants’ twisted image of the world. Christmas is still Christmas, but it has decidedly “halloweenish” attributes, like presents that attack their recipients. Santa Claus (most tellingly misinterpreted by Jack as “Sandy Claws”) and most humans would immediately see these glaring differences, but Jack and the Halloween Town inhabitants either don’t see these differences or don’t view them as strange or wrong or different.


    #2—This lesson comes from one of my favorite shows as a kid: “Fraggle Rock”, specifically the episode with Convincing John in which Mokey tries to get the Fraggles from eating the Doozer constructions only to find out that the Doozers wanted them eaten (if you’ve seen the show, you get this; if not, don’t worry about it). The quote from Mokey at the end of the show is this: “It’s not easy to understand other people’s problems. But it’s very easy to think you do.”


    I think this applies to Jack’s conviction that he can do Christmas just as well as Santa Claus. He’s convinced that having the Christmas spirit (which he obviously does) means that you can BE the Christmas spirit (AKA “Sandy Claws”). In the end, once Sandy Claws has been shot down, Jack realizes that it was foolish for him to think that he could take Santa’s place and goes to free Santa so he can fix Christmas. Jack also embraced his role as the Pumpkin King and hinted that this whole series of events has inspired him with new ideas for next year’s Halloween.



    9. The scene that sticks in my head is Jack standing in front of the full moon on the hill with the curly-cue. I wanted a scene without Zero, but I couldn’t find one.
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    10. The point of the movie is the Pumpkin King, filled with hubris, felt that he could also be Sandy Claws. I wanted a pin of Sally’s picture of the Pumpkin King with the sheet of paper put over it showing his red suit, making him Sandy Claws. This spinner (43789) is a close substitute.

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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  6. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    I've bbe waiting for your analysis the whole day now I can go to bed :D


    I won't say anything :D
     
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  7. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    1. Overall Impression
    I saw this movie for the first time as a freshman in college, more than 10 years after it released. So it’s not one I’m overly attached to since I didn’t grow up with it. While it’s good, and I enjoy its characters, it’s hard to forgive its rough patches with things like Kubo are really just knocking stop-motion animation out of the water. I have some serious issues with the film’s pacing (Oogie Boogie doesn’t show up until basically the end?! THE MOON DOESN’T COUNT YOU DON’T KNOW WHO THAT IS UNLESS YOU’VE SEEN THE FILM BEFORE). The film runs a bit too heavily on sight gags (especially in songs like “Making Christmas” or “Jack’s Experiments”). The music, however, is exceptional and quite memorable—so there’s a major win for it.

    Overall, the film doesn’t have the nostalgia-colored glasses that let me really latch on to it fondly. It’s good, if rough at points. Its main characters, music, and aesthetics are its strong suit—plot and pacing, not so much for me.


    2. Character Analysis
    While it’s a tad “on the nose” I’ve always loved the Mayor being a “two-faced” politician. XD It’s just such a silly, obvious concept. But somehow it is executed very well. Those extremes of emotion being worn on his sleeve (er, face) just adds to the eccentricity of the film and fleshes out this little bit character. Also, his little line, “I’m only an elected official! I can’t make decisions by myself!” is still just as funny to me as it was when I first saw it. Obvious humor, sure, but enduring nonetheless.


    4. Song Analysis
    I’m going to do these a bit out of order. Even though the song may not be the one I hum the most from the show, I think “What’s This” is probably the strongest point of the film. It gives us a massive departure in tone and style, and we feel just as swept away as Jack. What’s nifty, though, is that we, as a culture, have been inundated with this version of Christmas basically all our life, so what is actually on screen is pretty stereotypical and not anything we haven’t seen before. But thanks to Jack’s incredibly characterization in this scene, the fast pace, and the excellent stop-motion quality, we get swept up in it and it’s all just as marvelous to us as it is to Jack. That’s an impressive achievement for sure.

    Moreover, this is probably the most emotionally charged point of the film. Several lyrics talk about emotion, feelings, and such: “And in my bones I feel the warmth that’s coming from inside” (where inside is both the house making cookies AND inside Jack himself). Where “Jack’s Lament” set up his hollow feelings about being the Pumpkin King ("Oh there's an empty place in my bones that calls out for something unknown"), we see him filled now with energy and emotion which was, before, lacking in everything he did other than the actual “performance” of Halloween.

    Also, without this song, the macabre transformation of Christmas in “Making Christmas” wouldn’t be nearly as enjoyable.


    3. Scene Analysis
    The kind of sweeping view we get in “What’s This” is then mirrored in “What Have I Done” which hauntingly plays this almost music box song while the camera circle pans around and sees the burning and wrecked Christmas Toys. The angle is from the ground up, where we can see the tattered Sandy Claws outfit hanging off of Jack and everything is utterly forlorn. Not to mention the epic visual of Jack laying in the arms of the angel statue.

    Similarly to “What’s This” we also see Jack re-infused with that energy and emotion, but now it’s again aimed at his being the Pumpkin King. It played a nice sort of symmetry.


    6. Dialog Analysis
    However much I like Jack, he’s incredibly selfish. He wants this whole thing just for him, regardless of whether or not anyone else thinks it’s a good idea. In fact, when he’s pitching it to the citizens and they’re just not getting it (you can see their disquiet in the quick shot of the audience toward the middle of the song), Jack says in an aside, “I may as well give them what they want,” and proceeds to specifically paint Christmas with a sinister element (one which was totally absent before) as a means to basically trick the citizens into going along with it. By the time they realize this isn’t really what they were expecting (Happy Mayor: “How horrible our Christmas will be!” / Jack: “No! How jolly!” / Sad Mayor: “Oh, right…”) it’s too late and they’re already invested.

    This quick, rather sly deception was always a bit much for me and just reinforces the idea that this whole bit is really just for Jack at the cost of everyone else.


    9. Iconic Shot
    It’s got to be the curly mountain, right? But I think the ending one with Jack and Sally together might be a bit more in the spirit of the whole film.

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    Honorable mention goes to:

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    Heheh! I just love this visual. XD


    10. Representative Pin
    Even though it’s got the name of the movie on it, I think this pin is a solid representation. It’s got Sandy Jack, the sleigh, and Halloweentown. :)

    [​IMG]
    Pin 33738 JDS - Nightmare Before Christmas -Santa Jack and Zero (Light Up)

    Honorable mention:

    Pin 50642 DLR - Nightmare Before Christmas - Jack and Angel - Figurine Pin Box & Pin Set (Jumbo Pin Only)




    Stray Thoughts:

    --Sally is really resourceful in this film… I had forgotten how neat she was. I wish she had gotten a bit more development…

    --Just as a general comment on the idea of the film, I think this is one where it works better as characters outside of the actual plot. Jack and Sally are great characters, and when they exist outside of the movie (in merchandise, art, pins, characters in the parks, etc.) they’re actually much more lively and their character seems to come across even more. Same could be said for Oogie. I know it’s kind of a weird thing to consider, but think about it. One could say that people associate Jack more with Halloween than the actual movie; and then, the Halloween-ified Christmas as a motif for our own celebration of the holiday, again, rather than the actual film. The DLR Christmas Haunted Mansion is a really good example of what I’m talking about here. It’s endearing because it’s something we can take off the screen and interact with it, more so than probably any other movie we’ve seen so far.

    Similarly, there are lots of little elements of the movie I really like, such as Scary Teddy, or the Monster Wreath. But not because of their part in the actual movie, but because I think they’re a cool twist on something I’m familiar with / interact with in real life. I think that may be one reason why this film is so enduring.
     
  8. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    We lost internet at our house due to shenanigans, just made it to Starbucks and typing up my response.
     
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  9. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    1. Nightmare Before Christmas is the first and only stop motion film in this series. I am always amazed at the skill and dedication it takes to make stop motion. The fact that it focuses on Halloween, my favorite holiday, makes me like it even more. It's not my favorite Disney movie, but it does hold up to multiple viewings and I would definitely watch it again.

    I'm not really sold on Jack and Sally's relationship. Sally does love Jack, but for the majority of the movie Jack is only focused on his own wants. It's only in the last few minutes, after he returns from Christmas Town, that he even seems to notice Sally outside of what she can do to help him achieve his dream, and is dismissive of her whenever she expresses doubt or concern that may hinder his plan. He treats her as just another townsperson, really. So his sudden realization of his love for her really seems to come out of nowhere, and doesn't quite work for me.

    Sally is really the breakout star of this film. She is resourceful, clever, and not afraid to speak up or act against anyone who is doing wrong, even the formidable Oogie Boogie (come on, the doorway leg seduction? GENIUS.) and Jack, who everyone loves and cowtows to. She knows her talents and uses them wisely. She is not afraid to put herself in danger if it means her freedom or being able to help others. She totally deserves her heroine profile pin; I'd argue that she is more heroic in the film than Jack is, since he acted in his own best interests and she acted in everyone else's.

    2. The Mayor loves his position. He loves attention and being the official voice of the town, as evidenced by the bullhorn he uses throughout the film. He wears a giant orange ribbon with MAYOR written on it in big letters. He delights in his official duties, like awarding prizes during the Halloween celebration and planning next year's Halloween (and later Christmas) celebration.

    He is is quite literally two-faced. He has two modes - happy and sad/angry/in despair - and can switch between them in an instant. He is emotional and has a hard time hiding his true feelings, and is quick to jump to the worst conclusion (like when Jack disappears for just a short while and he assumes that the worst has happened to him). I noticed that the vast majority of the time when he is talking to, or even just in the presence of, Jack, he has his happy face on. This reflects our culture of wanting to be in the inner circle of celebrity - appeasing those with power or popularity with the goal of receiving some of that ourselves.

    Unlike many films/tv shows that portray mayors as evil or corrupt, the Mayor does seem to be genuinely benevolent, though. Appeasing Jack aside, he does act in the best way he knows how to make the residents of Halloween Town happy. This makes him sympathetic, and more likeable than he could have been.

    4. Jack's Lament is the film's way of letting the audience know Jack's deepest desire. The opening scene is our introduction to the world, where everything is Halloween all of the time, and everyone seems content to perpetually experience this. We are introduced to Jack - the Pumpkin King! The mascot and leader of the entire holiday, the most powerful, famous, and beloved person in Halloween Town! He is the epitome of what Halloween stands for; surely he must feel the same! We find out during this song, however, that he is actually unhappy with the stagnation in his life and wants something more. This is the driving impetus of the movie.

    It is also a way for Jack to express himself. He feels like he can't explain his feelings to the townspeople, who quite literally live for Halloween. He feels trapped and thinks they won't understand his stagnation, and sings his feelings out to the nothingness of the graveyard. Unbeknownst to him, Sally is also present, and while the lyrics reflect Jack's thoughts, they are also how Sally feels. She also feels trapped by her situation, perpetually serving Dr. Finkelstein, and longs for freedom and something more.


    7. The film is a retelling of the message that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Jack is unhappy with his life, and when he visits Christmas Town he sees wonderful things. To him, Christmas Town is the field of grass on the other side of his fence, and becomes obsessed with becoming Sandy Claws (allowing him to "hop the fence" to get to the greener pasture). However, when he immerses himself in the world and is met with literal gunfire, he realized that Halloween Town is where he truly loves to be - he sees that his own grass is greener for him.

    9.
    [​IMG]

    Jack's darkness/inner turmoil against the brightness of the moon (symbolic of the brightness of Christmas Town?), the pumpkins and Zero showing off the Halloween theme, and the spiraling curve of the hilltop mirroring the roundness of the moon. It's a wonderfully framed scene and instantly recognizable as being from this movie.

    10. This time, there are actually a bunch of pins that show the iconic shot. I fell in love with this gorgeous rendition of that scene:

    [​IMG]

    Pin# 49852 - DisneyShopping.com - ''The Nightmare Before Christmas'' Poster Proof Series (Jumbo)


    Runner up goes to Sally's heroine profile, because Sally seriously deserves the title of heroine (though I think the bottle of Deadly Nightshade would have been a better item for her to hold, as that represents her actively working towards her independence, versus this flower, which ties more to her love for Jack.

    [​IMG]

    Pin# 127219 - WDI - Disney Heroines Series - Sally


    Random Thoughts

    ~ During Jack's Lament, Jack mentions Kentucky, England, and France. This means that the movie's world is not entirely fantasy - these real world places exist as well as the holiday towns. I got to wondering if the holiday towns exist in a separate area of the same world (like a separate continent in the same reality), or if they exist parallel to them - kind of like an alternate reality overlaid on the real world.

    ~ It's not the most impactful scene, but I am always amazed at how the fog is incorporated into the scene where Jack takes off as Sandy Claws. Some of the shots would be fairly easy - where the fog is shown against still backdrops. But then you have something like this, where the fog is rolling at the same time that stop motion is happening around and within the fog:

    [​IMG]

    This scene really blew me away.

    ~ [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
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  10. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    Am I the only one who hears Gilbert and Sullivan when anyone says 'Pumpkin King'?



    Oh, I am the Pumpkin King. And it is, it is a glorious thing to be the Pumpkin King!!
     
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  11. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    [​IMG]
    1. Overall Impression
    I remember hearing the rave reviews that The Nightmare before Christmas had recieved but my first experience with Tim Burton Stop-animation was Corpse Bride when I was in high school. Truth be told when I actually got to watch it(at work of all places for the holidays) I was a bit underwhelmed so to speak. Considering this is the film is the predecessor to Laika, I can forgive some of its pacing issues. It's high points come from it's unique and groundbreaking artistic direction as well as it's phenomenal soundtrack, which Danny Elfman has come to be a staple collaboration with Tim Burton starting with the first two modern Batman films.
    As far as inspiration goes, this is based off a poem/story Tim Burton set to style of the night before Christmas. Even the narrative at the beginning, is set in a meter similar to the original work. I wonder if there may have been other inspiration taken from other popular holiday specials; for instance I get a Charlie Brown and the great pumpkin vibe not only from Jack Skellington himself, but the pumpkin patch with the full moon on the backdrop seems like a nod to that special. Christmas Town is also seemingly inspired by Whoville, from Dr. Suess's How the Grinch Stole Christmas.

    3. Scene Analysis.
    Like typical Tim Burton movie fashion, much of the movie, such as Halloweentown, is stabbed in a dark monochromatic palette; the contrasting bits of bright colors throughout much signify the lively/happier areas such Christmas Town as well as the many Xmas props, or a visual focal point such as the full moon. Ironically this contrasts well with the movie Corpse bride, which featured the land of the dead as a colorful world in opposite of the land if the living, which is shown in drab greys.

    5. Symbolism
    In many cultures a fresh white snowfall is considered to be a return to innocence, or absolvence of past deeds. In this case Santa is forgiving Jack Skellington and Halloweentown for almost wrecking Christmas by offering a olive branch in the form of snow, something not witnessed before to the HT residents. Much of snowcover replaces the grey undertones with white, which is quite noticeable in the final scene of the hillside of the pumpkin patch.

    8. Progressions.
    While we won't see another Disney Tim Burton SA feature till Frankenweenie, it is pretty distinguishable art style of itself being later incorporated in future endeavors by Disney and Laika. One thing that I noticed that may have been a shoutout to past films was how Jack's pumpkin scarecrow burned and danced similar to a ballerina would; It was very reminiscent of the Fantasia scene from NoBM of the flame dancers. [​IMG]


    9. Iconic Screen.
    [​IMG]
    The scene of Jack on the pumpkin patch hill is probably one of the most iconic promotional scenes this movie has. This scene represents a reprise of that but with Sally and Jack's silhouette about to embrace on a now snow covered hill.

    10. Representative Pin
    [​IMG] S
    Pin 26309 Disney Auctions (P.I.N.S.) - Nightmare Before Christmas Jack and Sally Silhouette Against the Moon.

    This is pretty much the pin version of the above iconic screen. If I remember correctly the spades on the fence pikes featured pumpkins only cait or was there a part in the film that had skulls on them?


    Stray thoughts

    While King's Quest VI took much inspiration from Disney in the form of Aladdin, Alice in Wonderland, and Beauty and the Beast, King's Quest VII went a bit further in trying to produce a Disney like experience that they seemingly used inspiration from NBC for their halloween town of Ooga Booga.
    [​IMG]

    This may be considered a progression but Steven Spielberg would go on to parody NBC for one of his Halloween specials of Tiny Toon Adventures. While I don't know if it ever referenced Disney(its WB) directly but pop culture such as Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Who Framed Roger Rabbit were quite common.
     
  12. Ajk

    Ajk Not so new anymore.

    Rating - 100%
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    If you like the music, check out the 2006 re-release bonus album. Has a bunch of awesome covers. I especially like She Wants Revenge doing Kidnap the Sandy Claws, Fiona Apple’s Sally’s lament is pretty cool too.
     
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  13. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    In a nod to the "Pins You Can't Unsee", I give you this one. Perhaps it says more about me and my fertile little mind, but when I first saw this pin, I confused Jack's arms from the elbow down and his legs from the knees down. When you do that, it looks like Jack is sitting there with his legs spread wide open to the skies. Just saying...

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. caw caw rawr

    caw caw rawr Squirrel!

    Rating - 100%
    49   0   0

    My connection to this film is current. We watch this movie all. the. time. My littlest just turned 6 this past Friday and it is her all-time favorite movie (for now). I don't know why she loves it but she does. Her favorite character is Oogie Boogie but she loves Jack, Sally and Zero too. Her birthday cake was a circle Jack face but, at her request, his bones were purple and his eyes/mouth were pink. Oddly enough, when we went to Disneyland last she was too scared to meet Jack and Sally but loved watching them meet other people through the window in the gift shop that was right by their meet and greet. :)

    I do like the movie but as Merlin (I think) said, it's characters and images seem to stand alone outside of the movie and I like them better that way, I think. This year my big Halloween project is to make a life size Jack Skellington, just for fun.
     
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  15. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    256   0   0

    Oh wow! I don't remember KQ VII nearly as much as V or VI (both on my list of favorite video games of all time), and never really got that far into VII, so I don't recall this. But I'm tempted now to break out my Kings Quest Collection and fire it up again.
     
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  16. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    I love stories like this, they are so heartwarming! :)
    Good luck with your life size Jack Skellington project!
     
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  17. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

    Rating - 100%
    477   0   0

    [​IMG]
    The Lion King (1994)

    Monday/Tuesday is our "wrap-up" discussion on Nightmare Before Christmas. So you're welcome to respond to other analyses throughout the day.

    However, you may not post any more full analyses for Nightmare Before Christmas to count for completion toward the 52 Challenge. No late homework. ;P

    ~Merlin
     
  18. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

    Rating - 100%
    477   0   0

  19. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

    Rating - 100%
    256   0   0

    WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
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    Yay for The Lion King *already done with first watch* :D
     
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  21. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
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    Well, I’m doing this analysis a bit early because I have a conference I leave for on Saturday. Even so, my house hasn’t been this clean since… we were supposed to critique “Mary Poppins”! The things I’ll do to avoid watching a movie I hated as a kid… Well, here goes. On to “Elton John’s Disney movie… with lions.”


    1. and 8. My overall impression of the movie… Several things:

    Well, after watching it I don’t hate it as much as a did as a kid (an improvement on my opinion of “Mary Poppins”, after all). Still, I don’t really like it and I’m still not exactly sure why.

    My first guess it that I don’t really connect with the two “king” characters, Mufasa and Simba. Mufasa seems cold and distant to Simba at times (“Before sunrise, he’s your son,” and being rather cold to him after having to save him and Nala). Still, there are good “father-son” moments throughout the movie and I feel like I should care about their relationship; I just don’t… Of course, the character of Simba (both young and old) doesn’t help. As a cub, he’s just annoying and a know-it-all and thinks everyone should cow-tow to him because he’s the prince. As an adult, he’s carefree (careless) and irresponsible and living for the moment, but he’s still incredibly self-absorbed. It’s still all about him and his guilt over his father’s death and he (initially) refuses to take any responsibility or ownership for his life and the pride. I know he changes in the end of the movie, but the change felt so contrived and arbitrary (and easily done)—it just felt so out-of-character for Simba based on the first hour of the movie.

    I remember when the movie came out that Disney made a BIG deal about casting African-American actors for the voices of the lions, since the film is set in Africa. But then, why cast Jonathan Taylor Thomas and Matthew Broderick as young/adult Simba? Couldn’t they find appropriate African-American voice actors? Same with Jeremy Irons as Scar? I’m not sure I buy into the whole idea that these voice actors HAD to be African-American, but it was Disney’s choice to make that announcement, only to half-a$$ it when it came to the voices of the hero and villain in the film. Just saying…

    Mufasa’s smug look and nod at Rafiki as he presented Simba at Pride Rock looked EXACTLY like the smug look/nod from King Triton as Sebastian was about to present Ariel in her musical debut!

    I know I keep harping on voices, but man Mufasa sounds like Darth Vader. To Scar: “I find your lack of attendance at the presentation of Simba disturbing.”

    I really like the songs “I Just Can’t Wait To Be King” (based on the “Philharmagic” show in the Magic Kingdom in FL) and “Be Prepared” (based on “The Festival of the Lion King” show in Animal Kingdom in FL). When I see them in the movie, they feel like pale comparisons to these other versions. “IJCWTBK” just seems more joyous and fun in the “Philharmagic” show, and “BP” feels so much more forceful and powerful when a booming baritone sings it in “TFotLK” than when an effeminate fop sings it in the movie; I just didn’t get Scar as a menacing character in this song; it just felt like Scar was planning a Broadway musical. Of course, the imagery of the hyenas “goose-stepping” past Adolph “Scar” Hitler was just too much—not offensive (to me, at least) just laughable! And did Scar’s voice change halfway through the song?

    The whole stampede/Mufasa’s death scene just seemed so overplayed to me. It’s like they said, “If you think ‘Bambi’ or ‘The Fox and the Hound’ made you cry, just wait until you see OUR movie!” Unfortunately, at least for me, it didn’t work. The music was very dramatic to build tension, but it just felt heavy-handed, and the death scene was just so overly dramatic and maudlin. I was like, “meh”.

    Simba’s subsequent escape through the briar patch felt reminiscent of both “Sleeping Beauty” and “Song of the South”, and right after that the three hyenas were laughing hysterically, which reminded me of “Who Framed Roger Rabbit.” It’s not normally a problem to conjure images from past movies, but I got so much of that from this movie that it made it hard to see what was new and unique about THIS movie.

    The idea that Simba sending leaves into the air would actually reach Rafiki and then he would be able to infer from this that Simba is alive… Rather far-fetched and contrived, but I guess it’s a nod to the butterfly effect—the idea that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world. The chance meeting of Nala and Simba seems much more plausible.

    The “Can You Feel the Love Tonight” sequence, in which Simba is clearly holding something back and Nala notices it, felt very familiar. I was just waiting for Genie to show up with a chalkboard and say, “Tell her the… TRUTH!!”


    2. I guess I’ll analyze Scar, since he’s a kitty (yeah, I know, I’ve got lots of choices). Scar is just one in a long line of effeminate foppish villains. Man, Disney loves to villainize effeminate male characters (read: gay) and Disney plays in to the tired trope that somehow implies being homosexual is a sin or a character flaw, and that having your villain be gay makes it easier for the audience to blindly hate him and want him dead. Most notably was the villain in “Braveheart” (released just one year after “Lion King”), Mel Gibson’s hate screed that eventually led to a gay character being thrown out of a window, to much approval and applause by 1990’s audiences nationwide.

    Scar also has other (non homosexual) evil qualities, including fratricide and mental manipulation and emotional scarring (pun?) of his impressionable young nephew. Then, there’s his alliance of convenience with the hyenas. He’s happy to support them when they’re useful (trying to kill Mufasa and Simba, and eventually succeeding in Mufasa’s case), but at the end of the film he turns on the hyenas and then they choose to turn on him (and eat him!). This also follows the more recent trend of Disney movies liking their villains dead at the end of the film.

    For all his bad qualities, I just can’t get into the idea of Scar as a villain of the ilk of more famous Disney baddies (Shere Khan, Cruella, Ursula, Jafar, etc.). He just seems mostly lazy and manipulative. Meh.


    3. The scene I chose to analyze is the one where adult Simba meets Rafiki for the first time. I already mentioned the fact that Mufasa is speaking with the voice of Darth Vader, but this scene just extends the “Star Wars” metaphor (rip-off) to me. OK, so if Mufasa = Darth Vader (the father/father figure), then Simba = Luke Skywalker (the son) and Rafiki (his trusted advisor and mystic) = Yoda.

    So, it’s not surprising (just disappointing) that this introduction of Rafiki to Simba mirrors Luke’s first meeting on Dagobah with Yoda so closely. When Simba meets Rafiki, he seems like a harmless and useless annoyance. Rafiki is talking in riddles and nonsense but shamelessly name drops to get Simba’s attention by calling him “Mufasa’s boy” (“I’m not looking for a friend. I’m looking for a Jedi Master.” “Ah, Jedi Master. Yoda. You seek Yoda.”). Then, of course, there’s the mindless chase where Rafiki leads Simba through the jungle to a pond (just like Luke’s training sequences with Yoda, except they seem to have a point to make) where Simba sees Mufasa’s image in his own reflection—very similar to Luke’s fight in the Dark Side Cave where, after fighting with Darth Vader (who he doesn’t yet know is his father) he sees his own image in the severed head of Darth Vader. Finally, there’s Mufasa’s image appearing to Simba in the sky and providing him with advice and guidance; in “Star Wars”, it’s Obi-Wan Kenobi’s voice and image (not Luke’s father, but definitely a father figure) that appears to Luke throughout the movies to give him advice and guidance.

    Perhaps it wasn’t the writer’s goal to so thoroughly steal scenes and emotions from “Star Wars”, but all I got from this scene was a cheap version of a quality sci-fi movie.


    4. So many songs to pick from… Do I do “Hakuna Matata”, the ubiquitous and overly played “feel-good” song of the film that became Disney’s version of the cringe-worthy “Don’t Worry Be Happy” (and overly hyped just as much). Do I do “Can You Feel the Love Tonight?”, the requisite “love song” that tries to build an immediate romance between Simba and Nala but just feels like a pale comparison of every other Disney love song? Etc. etc. etc.

    I chose to analyze “Circle of Life” because it’s about the only song I can say something nice about. This is the song that opens the movie and introduces the African “feel” of the movie—complete with African music, language, and sensibility. I thought this song does a good job of introducing the “feel” of the movie. However, (you know I have to say something bad) this whole scene and the presentation of Simba just feels so pretentious, overly self-indulgent, and self-contratulatory. “Look how wonderful this scene is. Isn’t it marvelous? Aren’t we just glorious?” Ugh.


    6. and 7. Actually, there are a fair amount of quotes that I thought about analyzing. I chose this quote from Rafiki because I also feel that it lines up pretty good with the film’s overall goal: “The past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it or learn from it.”

    This is the ultimate lesson Simba must learn. He’s been hiding from his past (staying with Timon and Pumbaa and not returning to Pride Rock) because he’s embarrassed about his perceived role in Mufasa’s death. When he returns and faces Scar and the lionesses (where were the other male lions??), Scar plays into his guilt about Mufasa’s death and tries to get the pride to turn against him. Of course, this IS Disney, so a mere one minute later Scar admits to Simba that HE killed Mufasa, and now our hero can be filled with indignant outrage instead of learning to overcome but still live with his guilt. I feel like it would have been more powerful for Simba to carry on and save the pride as a flawed individual who is doing his best to do the right thing instead of allowing him to become a blameless victim of his evil uncle and his lies.

    Given that a Disney happy ending is inevitable, it should come as no surprise that Simba (and the lionesses, Timon, Pumbaa, and Rafiki) prevails and Scar fails and gets eaten alive. Happy!


    9. The scene that sticks in my head is the presentation of Simba by Rafiki. Stitch thinks so too! Is it wrong that I like this image as well? Maybe... Don't worry; he landed on his feet.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    10. Since I’m not a fan of the movie, I’m not going to look for a pin that fits the whole goal of the movie. Instead I’m going to pick a pin I like (and own). I chose two—this one (30830) from “I Just Can’t Wait to Be King” and this one (54730) which represents Simba growing up with Timon and Pumbaa.

    [​IMG] and [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
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  22. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    Yes, it did .*goes to look up the names and all*
    From Disney Wiki Trivia, Scar:

    "While Jeremy Irons voices Scar for most of the movie, he blew out his voice recording "Be Prepared" (Specifically the line "You won't get a sniff without me!"), and the rest of the song is sung by Jim Cummings. Incidentally, "Be Prepared" is also where Ed (also voiced by Jim Cummings) has his only line that is not laughter."
     
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  23. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    51   0   0

    So POOH finished his song?? That's just wrong...

    You know, I noticed that I didn't even mention that "Lion King" is a rip-off of "Hamlet" in my analysis! This was one of my childhood reasons for not liking this film (I was 17 at the time).
     
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  24. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    I didn't know Hamlet at that time so that didn't bother me one bit but I did hear about that later.
     
  25. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    I like his Hun voice so much better :$ They choose one of the best actors we had then - he speaks beautifully and knows and understand what he is saying and sounds really fatherly - to me, perfection.
    Strange, while I do think Ariel is a bit annoying I never had such an issue with Simba but I think it is somewhat due to the hun translation, he is tones downjust a litle bit.
    I started to wonder that would he turned out different if not Timon and Pumbee but Mufasa and Sarabi had raised him.
    This is something borrowed from real lions - they live woth one male and several females. The family is a strange mixture of human and animal (I think I adressed that back at Bambi and I'll talk about that more in my own analysis)
    For me it was the other way around (I guess I need the drama) I was only a bit sad for Bambi (liked the book better) while I actually cried at Mufasas death. It could be the age difference, thpugh, I was much older when I first saw Bambi.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
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