The Disney 52 Animated Challenge: Year-Long Activity - NOW PLAYING: Princess and the Frog

Discussion in 'DPF Game Room' started by MerlinEmrys, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

    Rating - 100%
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    Also posting early due to being out of town tomorrow morning through Sunday night with no guarantee of internet while I'm gone. I would have run myself out of town in shame if I missed Lion King week!

    (This is actually a bit shorter than I was planning, but it's already 1 am and we leave in a few hours to catch our flight. If I'm not dead from travel when I get back on Sunday, I'll add in more questions.)

    1. As you could probably guess by my username and avatar image (and my quite unwieldy pin collection), I have somewhat of a passing fondness for the Lion King. ;)

    This is my favorite movie. Not just Disney movie, or animated movie, but favorite movie of any movie that I have ever seen. I saw it when it first came out in theaters, and fell in love. I was already a Disney fan, but this was the first movie where I was really ENAMORED. The animation is spectacular, the voice cast is top notch, the computer animation is a marvel for its time, and the songs are just the right combination of catchy and sing-along-able. I am generally more of a fan of animal movies than people movies, and this is one of the few Disney movies with 100% animal characters. It stands up over time, unlike some of the earlier films. And Timon was the first character that I can distinctly remember watching and seeing myself reflected in him.

    This is the first film to really cram itself full of recognizable Hollywood and Broadway talent versus primarily voice actors. Beauty and the Beast did have some big names, and of course Aladdin had Robin Williams (and Steve from Full House!) but The Lion King tops them all. (It doesn't hurt that this came out while I was in middle school during the height of JTT fever. ;) )

    Disney movies are known for their songs, and many of their films have one or two really memorable ones throughout. With the Lion King, though, almost every single song in the film has reached the level of zeitgeist. Circle of Life, Just Can't Wait To Be King, Be Prepared, Can You Feel The Love Tonight, Hakuna Matata...you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know at least one of these songs by heart (except maybe unibear ;) ), even if they don't know the movie that well.

    The film has very few references to popular culture, and no man-made structures or anything that would root it in one specific time. (One of my peeves about the sequel is Timon's line of needing to get a beeper for Kiara. It dates the film and also - how do wild animals with no human contact know about beepers?) This shields the film from feeling stale or dated, as it really could take place at almost any time in history.

    It was pointed out that The Lion King is a takeoff of Macbeth (with Lion King 2 a takeoff of Romeo and Juliet and Lion King 1 1/2 a takeoff of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern). But, as someone who has the most awful time grasping any kind of meaning with Shakespeare, adaptations like this are wonderful. It lets me understand the spirit of the story without getting brainfoggy trying to work out what the Shakespearean prose means.

    Now, I do recognize that it has problems, and is not a perfect movie. It does have a level of cultural appropriation. As unibear pointed out, the main characters are primarily voiced by a white cast, with the voice actors of color relegated to the sidelines. I also found it interesting how many characters had British accents, considering the history of British colonization in Africa. (And all were characters in or related to the royal family, who had the power within the story.) Also, as much as I love Hula Timon, the scene is ultimately a white actor voicing a character who wears a grass skirt and lei and singing/dancing a white people's depiction of the hula for laughs.


    2. I had to go with my buddy, my bae, my favorite fictional character of all time - the small but mighty Timon. (OH HO HO HO, you can bet I'm looking forward to Lion King 1 1/2 week for The Timon Show!)

    [​IMG]

    (As if I would choose anyone else!)

    On the surface he can seem...surface. He is very sarcastic and hyper, and can be dismissive of Pumbaa's suggestions (or takes them as his own). He lives his life by Hakuna Matata, and doesn't put too much thought behind what he does on a day-to-day basis. However, there is a lot more beneath the surface.

    He is exceptionally brave. He is the smallest main character in the film (even Zazu is bigger), and a prey species. By all accounts, he should be hyper vigilant and freaking out all the damn time. Especially since meerkats usually have the rest of their mob to look out them. But for the most part, dude's chill. After his initial freakouts, he accepts Simba as a friend, and accepts Nala as Simba's friend. He willingly goes in front of scores of hyenas and uses himself as a diversion and live bait.

    He is willing to do almost anything to help his friends. He tries to free Pumbaa from under the tree roots, then stands in front of him, as Nala charges towards them. After Simba goes back home, he travels across the desert to a place he's never been to help take back the throne. Again, he willingly goes in front of scores of hyenas and uses himself as a diversion and live bait. And all of this he does just because Simba is his friend and he knows how important this is to him, no questions asked (well, one question asked, but it was a rhetorical question). He is a great example of the family spirit that meerkats have.

    Once more - he willingly goes in front of scores of hyenas and uses himself as a diversion and live bait. HYENAS - one of the main predators of meerkats, and who vastly outnumber him.

    LOOK AT HIM, HE'S STANDING LIKE A PEOPLE!
    [​IMG]

    I can really see myself reflected in him, both physically (I'm the shortest in my family aside from my mom, and usually one of the shortest and smallest amongst my friends) and personality wise. Here is a character who, like me, uses humor and sarcasm in much of their conversation, and loves their family and friends so much that they would do almost anything for them.


    5. Light versus dark, and shadow versus light, plays a large (albeit nail on the head) part in this film in order to visually delineate good from evil. All of the good characters (non-Scar lions, Zazu, Timon, Pumbaa, etc.) are very bright - light yellows, blue, tan, warm reds and chocolate browns. Scar, on the other hand, has much darker fur than the other lions with a black mane, and the hyenas are a dark brownish-grey.

    The names of the places also convey this - the good guys inhabit the Pride Lands/Pride Rock, the jungle, etc. which are all happily named and brightly lit. (Even at night, the colors are warm blues and pinkish purples.) The evil characters inhabit the spooky-sounding Shadowy Place, Elephant Graveyard, etc. which are always either in darkness/shadow or lit up with really garish lime greens and oranges. After Scar has taken over as ruler of the Pride Lands, the area dies off, and everything becomes a muted grey, even the sky. Only when Simba comes back and overthrows him does the rain come and brings everything back to life and back to color.


    9. There are a couple really amazing and iconic shots in this film.

    Second runner up goes to this impressively massive, majestic tower of animals because THIS IS FREAKING AMAZING.

    [​IMG]

    First runner up goes to this, for the beautiful framing and color composition, and magical time lapse:

    [​IMG]

    But I ultimately chose this, as it is during the climax of the song with the message of the film, has an instantly recognizable icon (Pride Rock) and action (Rafiki holding up Simba), and introduces us to the spectacle and grandeur of the movie:

    [​IMG]

    10. I have to go with this. This is one of the most impressive pins of anything Disney has ever produced. I don't have it in my possession yet, but it is one of my holiest grails and someday it shall be mine.

    [​IMG]

    Pin# 30830 - WDW -AK - Adventures in Pin Trading - Jumbo Pin - Nala & Simba


    Random Thoughts

    ~ How WEIRD must it be for the prey animals in this world? The zebras, giraffes, etc. The lions hunt them and eat them - Scar has a Zebra leg, the wildebeest run from the hyenas out of fear, ect. - and yet they all come and celebrate the birth of Simba (and Kiara at the end), another lion who will grow up to hunt them. Yes, the main message of the film is the Circle of Life, but do they have to actively celebrate that they are going to be eaten?

    ~ How has the jungle not completely run out of bugs, devastating the ecosystem? Simba live exclusively on bugs the entire time he lived there, from cub to adult. The amount of protein he would need on a daily basis would mean hundred or thousands of bugs every day. Are there really that many bugs in the jungle to sustain him, and Timon and Pumbaa (and whatever other insectivore may live there as well)? And how is Simba not massively malnourished? Are bugs an acceptable source of taurine? THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS I WORRY ABOUT.

    ~ Effemination aside, Scar is legitimately one of the most terrifying villains to me, because he is willing to murder his own family for power. Holy crapballs, this line:

    [​IMG]
    LONG LIVE THE KING.

    Scar holds Mufasa's life literally in his paws, and he wants Mufasa to KNOW that he is deliberately murdering him.
     
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  2. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
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    I suspect I went a bit over the top this time :$
    part 1:

    1. What is your overall impression of the film? Some possible talking points include: what you did or did not like about it; what about the film has stuck with you; what did you find different on this viewing; how would modern audiences respond to this (for the older films)… The list goes on. Hahah!
    I have a lot to tell about this movie so it’s going to be very looooooong and full of personal stuff, Be prepared!:D
    While I don’t know wich movie was the first Disney movie I ever saw (Aladdin or The Lion King) I can say that this is the first one I ever saw in a movie theatre. It was around Christmas, it was snowing and our cousin took us to watch it with my sister. (She was already grown up we were still small grade school kids) I remember there was a short about a lion before the movie and as I didn’t know about it anything besides the title beeing The Lion King, I assumed that the short was the movie already. We loved the cute lion cubs and got the movie later on tape. The colors were different during this watch from what I remember from the tape (we watched it a zillion times so it is practically burnt into my memory) I haven’t watched it that often in recent years so there were a few things I were unfamiliar with. There is this part where Nala wins over Simba for the second time and says she pinned him again, right before they notice they are aleady at the elephant graveyard. There are a few seconds here and there I didn’t remember from the tape but vaguely remembered being surprised by it the last time I watched the movie. Did they add some little bits for the Special edition and the releases after that? Or is this possible an issuewith our tape? We got the VHS used and not new.
    I watched it with both dubs just because I loved watching it so much. :) But I noticed the translating took some little liberties – it’s the same but somehow not. But I think they did a good job and if it influenced the movie I think in the right direction. But there were also some little things I only got while watching it with the original dub.
    Scars name in the hun dub could be an issue if they’d do a prequel movie (would love that) because Scar being translated didn’t really work or so the translator thought. My father’s opinion in the matter was that it’d be like an old Westernhero’s name ans not at all suitable for the movie. He thought they should have kapt the original English name but they didn’t. So he was renamed Zordon which kind of reflects that he is grim most of the time. But the first item we owned from the movie was a colorbook (still have it) with two sentences under each picture and there the name Scar was used. I remember being confused about that.
    The Morning Report is not really a good fit I like it better without it. It’s possibly because although they managed to get the old voice actor for Zazu, they couldn’t get the original voice for Mufasa (sadly he alreadypassed away ) or young Simba. And they also changed some lines during the teaching hunting part which I didn’t like (both dubs). And young Simbas singing voice in this one is just… bad. And very different from his original voice, it is very noticeable that they had to fill in the voices there. It worksa bit better in the original but I still don’t really like that part.
    I still love this movie and the characters just as much as a child, because a lot of personal connections. I’ll share some down in the stray thoughts section – this one is far too long already.

    2. Choose one specific character to analyze. You can explore how a character acts, what they say, how they dress, etc. to explain what they may represent or their function and meaning in the narrative. Try to avoid obvious "plot" stuff (ex: the Evil Queen is a villain, so her purpose is to be bad...), but explore unique and specific elements about the character (ex: the EQ is surrounded by images of peacocks, further suggesting her obsession with vanity). You may also use these elements to explain why you connected or disconnected from the character.
    I was pondering a lot who to choose and I think I’ll go with Mufasa. He is the father figure and the king like Triton but I feel like he does a better job with parenting than Triton. He cares for Simba and spends quality time with him and teaches him what Simba needs to know. And when Simba does something he shouldn’t (like going to the elephant graveyard) he can be a strict parent – to make Simbe realise what he did was wrong and he takes the time to talk it over with his son and to understand why he did it. He’s even sad for a moment that he has to scold him. He doesn’t bear a grudge and is ready to forget things when he made sure Simba understood the lesson (being brave – what it means)
    It seems he is a beloved king with a happy family – except one member. He doesn’t know what to do with his younger brother, he can’t really handle that relationship. I haven’t read anything about the events before the movie but I’ve got a feeling that something went terribly wrong there and Mufasa actually wants to mend it but doesn’t know how.
    I think even if he knew that he’s going to die saving his son, he would have done it.
    His lighter colors and fuller muzzle and sets him apart from his brother as the good one. (Scar with darker colors and an always hungry, boney and grim look is the bad one. Oh in the hun version he doesn’t have a bad back but joint gout)
    In the English dub Mufasa comes thorugh as a bit harsher parent. I already mentioned in an earlier post what a wonderful voice hun Mufasa got.
    My sister and I both thought and still think that on this one shot Mufasa resembles grownup Simba. He even has the three locks of mane.
    [​IMG]

    3. Choose one specific scene or sequence to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? Your analysis could include the scene’s use of color, action, camera angles, music, character development, setting, backdrop, style, etc. If you can justify it with evidence from the scene, then it’s an analysis!
    I think I'll go with the hyenas chasing Simba off right after Mufasas death. After they start to chase him, it gets darker and darker just like his fate at that moment. First he only gets in shadow.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Then the sun starts to set.

    [​IMG]
    It could be interpreted as the falling part of Mufasas time as ruler. But it also reflects Simbas fate at that moment – things are getting worse, he is homeless, without a friend and he carries this terrible guilt with him. Everything has a reddish touch doe to the sunset, red being the color of blood and so the color of both life and death, possibly meaning a life is at stake, namely Simbas.
    When the hyenas run towards thos thorny bushes, they look almost like flames
    [​IMG]

    4. Choose one song to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? What purpose does this song have in the film and does it succeed in that purpose?
    Tough choice. I could babble hours about any of the songs. We had the soundtrack, too, also on tape as children and listened to it a lot. I think I’ll go with Hakuna Matata. It is to show where Simba found a new home, and how he grew up. This is important for later parts to partly explain why he didn’ go back to Pride Rock. It also shows what those two new characers, Timon and Pumbaa are like, how they live, what they eat and live without a care in the world. And at that moment, I guess that’s what Simba needed. But I think he tends to be a bit too careless and that quality also keeps him from returning. But he eventually faces it and goes back.
    The song also shows a great friendship and how a duo becomes a trio very quickly. I thinks the song succeeds perfectly presenting them and shows a detailed picture of both Timon and Punbaa.
    It’s all colorful to show the happiness there like I just can’t wait to be king and unlike dark Be prepared.
    Hun Pumbaa actually have a separate singing voice – I didn’t realize this until I looked up the names. Hun Pumba also says instead of slimy and satisfying juicy and nourishing.

    5. Choose one specific symbol in the film to analyze. A symbol is typically something inanimate, an object, rather than a character. So don’t say “Brer Bear represents dumb people,” as that’s more of a character analysis than a symbol. Rather, think about specific objects (jewelry, clothing, houses, food, weapons, etc.) What does this symbol mean and how does that meaning impact the film?
    I choose Pride Rock as a symbol of power and kingship. That is why Scar refuses to leave it even if they all die – he thinks he has his power as a ruler as long as he’s at Pride Rock. It is very much like the palace, the crown for a human king – and they actually do live there and the cliff kind of serves as a balcony – royal family showing themselves to the public.
    The Hungarian name of Pride Rock translates back to Throne Cliff.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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  3. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
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    part 2:

    6. Choose a single line of dialog that you find to be the most significant/impactful line in the film and why. You can be a little loose with the “single line” bit, but let’s not go for Maleficent’s entire monologue to Philip... Rather, something like Stitch’s “This is my family. I found it all on my own. It’s little, and broken, but still good. Yeah – still good.” (brb weeping).
    Rafikis line about the past is indeed very powerful but it’s already been analised and I couldn’t add anything new so I looked for another powerful line.
    “You got to put your past behind you” It is Timons advice on how to deal with bad things in the past (although he’s not aware what these bad things in Simbas past are and that feeling guilty is his biggest problem) In itself a good advice, as one can’t be stuck in the past and whine about something that happened in the past. But in Simbas case this worked a bit too well – it became partly the reason why Simba didn’t return to Pride Rock. So putting the past behind you is great but “Remember who you are” because you have to know where you come from to know where are you going.
    Rafikis line about the past also completes this one wonderfully. Rafikis line can stand alone Timons need a bit of addition, to make it complete and to interpret it correctly. And although I keep mentioning the flaws getting stronger with Timon and Pumbaa rising Simba, I actually think they did a good job raising him. More about that in The Lion King 1 ½

    Runner up:
    “And so we are all connected in the great circle of life.”
    “Látod, fiam, így válik teljessé az élet végtelen körforgása”
    – See, my son, this is how the life’s endless circle becomes complete.
    Because that sums up the part this movie gave me – the love for animals and interest in their lives.

    7. What is this film’s overall goal? Is it to teach a specific lesson (what is it) or get an emotional response (such as)? Or both? And how well or poorly does the film succeed in that goal? Be specific!
    The first and main lesson is taking our responsibilities and face things even if they seem unpleasant – we learn that through Simba. But Mufasa also teaches at least two very important lessons: about life and nature and its delicate balance. I don’t think smaller kids (like me when I first saw it) know much about Africa and the wildlife there. This movie inspired me to read about it and I ended up reading Joy Adamsons Born free – a book mainly about the orphaned lioness Elsa growing up but I also learned a lot about African wildlife in general through that book. I consider that as my personal gift from The Lion King. :)
    The other lesson taught by Mufasa is about being brave and being reckless and the difference – another lesson very useful for kids in my opinion, I think many kids kids would do just what Simba did – do what’s forbidden and possibly land in trouble. I know that many of my classmates tended to be reckless.

    8. What connections or progressions do you see in this film to past films? Example: how does Sleeping Beauty progress (or digress?) the princess archetype built in Cinderella? Be specific! Also, consider what use there is in returning to or re-imagining those elements?
    The first thing I notice is this strange mix of human qualities an animal qualities. Like, at the beginning all the animals gather like a big family when a new royal familymember is born and they have a king but they are still predators as we can gather from what Simba aks and Mufasa replies. They are also humanlike in some of their movements – like hugging but most of the time they move as animals usually move. I don’t think I’ve seen that that strongly in other Disney movies with animals although it was definitely present. Also in real life, baboons and lions wouldn’t get along – lions hunt baboons and mandrills and those monkeys kill lioncubs if they can.
    Aaand as I promised back when Bambi was the week’s movie:
    That something is the number of the newborns. Humans, deers: often one, possibly two. For lions I’m going to go back to the book I already mentioned for it is described very well:
    A lioness usually has four cubs in a litter. But mostly the smallest one is too weak to survive and often dies right after it is born. It is often the same with the second smallest cub, it is not strong enough to survive untill it reaches adulthood. That is why mostly lionesses with two cubs are seen. Normally, Elsa would have been the outcast of the family (as she was the smallest of three)
    So in this way, lions were humanized: neither Simba nor Nala had siblings from the same litter. (I read Nala has a younger brother Mheetu) But Mufasa and Scar could be the same age, couldn’t they?
    Lions living in big families is also taken from real lions – one male and several females – but this is not the only form the live in: familys, lone males and more are also there.
    I heard sometime in the radio (it was about African wildlife) that Scar trying to kill Simba was also something taken over from real life lions – a new leader always kills off the cubs of his predecessor.
    I also think we got more complex characters than in earlier movies, I think Simba is an unuasal hero – with that careless attitude and being physically weaker than Nala. He’s not the diamond in the rough like Aladdin, Tramp or O’Malley. This all makes a strange yet in my opinion loveable mixture.
    The humanizing of the animals will go on in Zootopia, I think. :)

    9. What is the iconic shot of the film? What single frame of animation do you find to be the most memorable and why? Post it! You can check out this link to find some great screencaps to help!
    The circle of life:
    [​IMG]

    10. What single pin do you think best represents this film for you? Why? Give us the pin number and post a picture!
    Pin 40443 Disney Auctions - New Classics ( The Lion King )
    It has the characters I wanted to show, most pins focused either on the first half of the movie or on the second half of the movie, there was always someone important missing. This pin is sort of a compromiss with characters who never met in the movie.
    [​IMG]

    Runner up is
    [​IMG]
    It is the closest to my iconic shot of what I’ve found although it’s missing all the animls coming to see the newborn cub. Also I wanted to give a part to Timon and Punba in one of the iconic part questions – you have to admit that this duo is pretty iconic.


    Stray thoughts:

    Lots of thoughts I sqeezed in the actual analyze would rightfully actually belong here :$

    The thorns disappear quite quickly:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I suppose you all know that Simba means lion in Swahili – I learnt that from another book by the already mentioned Joy Adamson. But I was confused that it was written differently than it is pronounced. So I gave my lion cub a name that is should be written Shimba. (While other girls around our age made their own princesses we both made our own lions) He has a sister named Somba and a brother named Tiny, belonging to my sister and my brother. Sadly I lost him :( I got years later a replacement but it wasn’t as well made as my first little one. :(
    And yes I’ll show off my plastic figures – they are her because of this movie. It’s been more than twenty years – and I still have them all (The picture is actually quite recent put the figures were purchased in the ninties)

    [​IMG]

    The two big cubs in the middle are Simba and Nala.

    I had many smaller and bigger Lion King booklets and books with pictures and the story in it – I still have most of them. My sister used them all to make paper doll lions. Big families with a dozen cubs. :D


    I'm sorry if any of what I posted is too much and off topic, for me personallyeverything I wrote is connected strongly to it :$
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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  4. NutMeg

    NutMeg The Nefarious N.M.G.

    Rating - 100%
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    I don't really have anything to contribute to the Lion King discussion tbh. I definitely love the film, I just don't have strong enough insights or opinions about it, either artistically or technically, to warrant a lengthy analysis (and y'all know your girl don't do anything less than lengthy.) Besides, I need to spend the next couple weeks working on my Hunchback dissertation. xD

    But I look forward to reading your LK analyses! Especially since I see one from Tess. Shocking. :p I'll also try to pop in for Pocahontas next week, since I'm not sure we have any other Native members on here to contribute that perspective, and I feel like we kinda need it?
     
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  5. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    Do that! *looking forward to that*
    I think yes - for me, at least it'd be very interesting :)
     
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  6. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    "Let me out let me out!" "Let me in, let me in!"
    Hyenas can bite really strong, as strong as lions. Their forelegs are also really strong - so they could have been kings - but Mother Nature decided to give them weak hinderlegs and they have this odd, ungraceful way of walking.
    I'm pretty sure he didn't only eat bugs - there is simply not enough - small animals like birds were likely also part od his diet - or possibly leftovers form other lions or animals were already dead? (That's too much like the hyenas though but lions do this occasionally)
    Meercats are really curious little animals (also very cute) and they stand up to see and get the smells better - as far as I know :).
    H even says that if it's important to Simba they'll be with him till the very end. :) And yes yes yes, family spirit!
     
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  7. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

    Rating - 100%
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    Trying to catch up, sorry I missed last week....the heat is making it tough.
    Seems i haven't seen this classic in decades! I found my dvd copy unopeded purchased from Toys R Us pre Blu-Ray :p

    Lion King
    1) Overview, the movie seems more musical than I remember, and a much stronger thoughtful storyline than earlier Disney films, at least more dramatic in theme, and serious undertone about legacy, goals, jealousy, truth, food chain, consequences, love, family, and friendship!
    2) Rafiki is an interesting character, little on dialog, purposeful, quirky, mystical, but needed as the presenter/restorer of purpose.
    3) The sequence that sets the storyline seems to be when Mufasa has the purposeful father/son leadership in training talk with Simba. The sequence is beautifully animated with great detail to scenery, and sets up the responsibility of leadership, Simba's position/legacy.
    6) Scar's famous line "I'm surrounded by Idiots!" An exclamation suitable to any self proclaimed leader...
    10) #120767 portrays the endearing scene with Mufasa and Simba as father/son, king/prince, leader/apprentice, present/future, destiny/legacy,
    Understandable why this became a Broadway musical piece.
    I seem to remember talking to an artist at Disney around the release of Lion King, that there was a controversy around the storyline being too similar to a Japanese anime called Kimba. This discussion had come up because he was trying to get copies of Kimba on any format. They were very hard to find, and oddly several years later I had found odd copies of the series on dvd at the 99 cent store.;)
    Ok better submit this before it's cutoff. TTFN, my 5 are In! Yay:stitch:
    See you next week
     
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  8. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0

    Against all odds and being the B production film, how does this film(who's pitch for the story was a lion cub gets framed for murder by his uncle set to the music of Elton John) become one of Disney's most Iconic films?

    1. Overall Impression.
    [​IMG]
    As a 90's kid, I think I followed the general consensus and grew up with it being one of the heavily inflential Disney movies from my childhood. I do remember seeing it at the Drive in theatre, as well as singing In the Jungle a lot lol. This was one of the 2 3D remakes we later saw in theatres and it was packed theatre (beauty and the beast not so much). The animation is superb but the main stars was the phenomenal African inspired soundtrack. Loosely based upon the Shakespearean play Hamlet, this would be the pinnacle of the Disney Rennaissance, Jeffery Katzenberg leaving to form Dreamworks shortly after. There is one criticism that I have for this film and that is the fight scene between Simba/Scar, the slowdown/animation stutter makes it seem like they didn't have the frames to finish the scene with the music so they paced it accordingly to lengthen it.

    2. Character Analysis
    [​IMG]
    Scar is based loosely on the character Claudius from Hamlet, The brother of the previous king who usurped the throne and married his wife. He is ever suspicious of anyone who questions his rule and is afraid someone will find out what happened. This is where the comparisons ends but there are some nods to the play such as Scar holding the skull of one of his game as he talks to the Majordomo turned jester, Zazu; In that iconic scene Hamlet holds skull of the Court Jester Yorick contemplating the meaning of life/death, Scar even holds it similar to how Hamlet does in the the play.

    3. Choose one specific scene or sequence to analyze.
    [​IMG]
    Be prepared is one of the most visually haunting pieces that Disney has released, much of the piece is taken by reference of stock Nazi footage/propaganda such as Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will and the "cathedral of light" Nazi rallies in Nuremberg. Scar takes Visual cues as Adolf Hitler while the Hyenas take their cues as the soldiers, Edd giving a mock salute while the majority march in formation. I wonder if it is ironic that Disney would take visual cues from Leni Riefenstahl considering that Disney had to decline her employment 50 years prior due to not wanting to be seen as a Nazi Sympathizer.

    4. Song Analysis.

    I'll go ahead and choose a song not actually in the movie, He lives in you, I was dissapointed that this was one of the meaningful songs from the broadway songs though the special edition only added the morning report(which I am glad the recent home releases left out). The broadway version is sung twice, once when Mufasa tells him about the Former kings looking down from the heavens, and then its reprisal when Simba has his epiphany of his father's legacy. In the Lion King 2, it is used as the introduction, which makes it stand out considering the rest of the film was on a Direct2video budget...

    5. Symbolism.
    [​IMG]
    Traditionally in many cultures, a blood red moon symbolized ill fortune. In ancient Mesopatamia, it would signify a possible attack on their king in which he would go into hiding. In this instance, the it symbolizes the latter due to Scar's intent to depose of the current ruler and 2nd in line.

    6. Line of Dialogue Analysis
    "Oh yes, the past can hurt. But from the way I see it, you can either run from it, or… learn from it." This is one of the movie's most powerful messages, in this instance Simba who has been running away from his understanding that his actions in the canyon were the reason his Father died, he decides then to stop running and confront his uncle about the current situation at pride rock.

    7. What is this film’s overall goal?
    As one of the important social issues of the 90's, this film centers on the role of conservation for the balanced environment and the toll plundering the resources for survival will lead to its eventual demise. Considering all the environmental/political turmoil that has happened in Africa in the past two decades, this is a parable that is still relevant today.

    8. Connections/Progressions.
    [​IMG]
    At the end of the stampede, Simba is left to wander in the dust looking for his father. This is a nod to Bambi which does the same thing but in the growing snowfall. The Lion King though adds an extra Disney moment, by showing Simba finding Mufasa's still body with Simba crying out for help...
    [​IMG]

    9. Iconic Scene
    [​IMG]
    The coronation of Simba is probably one of the most iconic scenes of this movie, they even had to reuse it in the sequel(well sorta). This scene emphasizes the light hitting Simba, a symbolically supernatural emphasis that Simba is the rightfully chosen heir. Note later that when Scar is king, pride rock is only covered by clouds or the darkness of night; Another symbolic gesture that Scar is not a rightful ruler as Mufasa emphasizes to Simba that the kingdom is as far as the sunlight touches, which for Scar there is none.


    10. Representative Pin
    Pin 86113 DSF - Lion King - Rafiki holding up Simba
    [​IMG]

    There are many pins with Rafiki holding up Simba for the audience to see, what I like is this goes a step further with emphasizing the light hitting Simba.

    Stray thoughts
    [​IMG]
    Studio Ghibli's Pom Poko came out the same year as The Lion King and would beat it as well in the Japanese Box Office. Having a similar theme of conservation, it also uses Jonathan Taylor Thomas as the voice actor of one of the lead characters in the english dub.

    [​IMG]
    The Lion King is controversially accused of plagiarizing Osamu Tezuka's Kimba the White Lion.

    The original movie removed a subplot in which Scar tries to force Nala as his future mate/wife, though it returns in the Broadway musical. Jeremy Irons though would also hold a similar acting role when he starred in the 1999 film Lolita.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
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  9. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Oh crap! Today totally got away from me. >.< I need to start writing these as soon as I finish watching the film. :/ Anywho, on with the show! :D

    1. Overall Impression
    It’s been a suuuuper long time since I’ve watched this one all the way through, and I’ve become more familiar with the Broadway version over the years (it’s just on my music shuffle more), so it was interesting to get back to the original here. While it’s not a film I would call one of my favorites (at no fault of its own), it could be argued that this is really one of the best. While there are very small elements that I’m not super fond of (Matthew Broderick…), it doesn’t take away from how excellent this film is. It’s deft execution of the “cycle” theme is so well done (more on that later). And it has some of the best characters, songs, and animation. I was impressed all over again.


    (2. Character Analysis)
    This doesn’t count toward my total, but man Timon and Pumbaa were hysterical. XD And Timon was so so so good. @timeerkat, you definitely know how to pick ‘em ;P


    3. Scene Analysis
    After Simba and Mufasa share their “Everything the Light Touches” scene, and Simba goes to see Scar, the lighting is really cool, because Scar is always in the shadows while Simba is all “I’m gonna rule all the light stuff!” So young Simba never holds any power over Scar—something that’s played out as subtly as the use of lighting after a strong, character-establishing scene.

    [​IMG]

    There’s a lot of play with light and shadow throughout the film, but I think this was one of the more effective ones, especially in having it right after the “Light Touches” scene.


    (4. Song Analysis)
    Another no-count post, but I definitely had PTSD from the Sega Lion King game when “Just Can’t Wait” started playing……..

    [​IMG]


    5. Symbol Analysis
    From the opening song to the film’s excellent final shot, this one is all about cycles and circles. It’s an obvious trope, and one that could be easily overdone, but I think LK handled it perfectly. There are TONS of instances of cycles playing out in the film: the Pride Rock presentation, the stars, “Just Can’t Wait to be King” giving way to Simba doing anything BUT wanting to be king, Scar killing Mufasa and then almost killing Simba. It’s all connected and there’s something incredibly satisfying about seeing those cycles play out in the film. It’s probably why it feels like such a strong, cohesive narrative.


    6. Dialog Analysis
    There are plenty of awesome, profound lines in this one. But one that really struck me was a quick off-hand comment from Timon. After catching up to Simba and seeing the Pridelands in such a wreck, he makes a goof, but quickly follows it up with, “Well, if it’s important to you, we’re with you til the end.” Like, that is some exceptional dedication and friendship. Timon has been playing off this wise-cracking lazy bum attitude, but that was a genuine moment of kindness that struck me. So good on you, Timon!


    8. Connections?
    So not exactly a connection for Disney, but Imma roll with it anyway, hahah! An argument that frequently gets levied at LK is that it’s a lot like Hamlet. And for some reason, people seem to think that makes it less? Heck no! That is awesome! And knowing it’s based on Hamlet makes it so much cooler. (Well, actually, it just happens to be similar to Hamlet according to the producer—they realized it about ¾ of the way through production, according to him.)

    FOR EXAMPLE! We know that King Claudius killed Old Hamlet by pouring poison into his ear—an act with lots of symbolic resonance. When Scar goes to kill Mufasa, he leans in and whispers into his ear “Long live the king,” a moment that has a really cool call back to this moment from the film’s “inspiration.” OR! Timon and Pumbaa are Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, who, in the play, work behind the scenes for the most part to try and put certain actions into flow. So with Lion King 1 ½, we actually get to SEE that happen! That T/P were there all along! WHAT A COOL THING!!

    Others may think that it cheapens LK for it to have so many similarities to Hamlet, but I think it makes it awesome. Plus, Hamlet’s a little ****, so it’s nice to see Simba triumph in his stead, hahah!

    (and obligatory Kimba the White Lion mention…)


    9. Iconic Shot
    Oh man. Super tough one here. There’s so much to choose from. I think for me, it’s got to be the bridge scene with T/P. That’s what I think of most for LK.

    [​IMG]


    10. Representative Pin
    Which makes my representative pin so easy! :D

    [​IMG]
    Pin 54730 Featured Artist Collection 2007 (Rachael Sur) - Growing Up (Jumbo)

    It lends itself so well to the cycle element that I found so nice in the film, so it’s an obvious choice for me.


    Spare thoughts
    (too tired…maybe I’ll add some more in the morning…)
     
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  10. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    I'm kind of surprised to see someone argue that the plagiarism of Shakespeare makes 'Lion King' great. For me, it always weakened the film. I just don't think that 'Lion King' is a strong enough movie to live up to 'Hamlet' and it's always felt like a pale wannabe of the Bard's work. Obviously, others will disagree with me. The thing that kills me about the 'Lion King' franchise is that they're ALL rip-offs!

    Lion King = Hamlet
    Lion King II = Romeo & Juliet
    Lion King 1 1/2 = Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead (not Shakespeare, but still stolen from).
     
  11. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    Michael Crawford did a beautiful Lion King Medley and He lives in you is in there :)
    I think that is what made this death scene more dramatic and sadder than the death of Bambis mother.
    Kimba actually uses her fathers dead body to disguise himself and scare away his enemy - I think that's a bit too much.
    Now I want to play this one, too, but only the Aladdin one decided to run on my computer. I always had troudle, which monkeys to roar to get them all in the right position to finish the level.

    I think they help people to understand the originals better (although I've never read original Shakespeare - only translations) - and I think that's a good thing :) @timeerkat at mentioned something similar:
     
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  12. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    I teach Shakespeare. I wrote my masters thesis on King Lear. Hamlet is one of my favorites. And I LOVE the similarities LK shares with it. Anything that can make that material more approachable or relatable to a larger audience is 1000% fine with me.

    When you stare at a class of college freshmen and say "Okay, we are starting Hamlet tomorrow!" every single one will groan and moan and hate it. Because there's this cultural consciousness (created largely by stuffy academics) that Shakespeare is obtusely hard and old and only the most smartest ever can understand it. So students come to it with closed doors. But if you take something they're already familiar with (LK) and start pointing out that it's a story they ALREADY know and love, then they are 75% more likely to connect with the amazing source text.

    There is a significant difference between stolen from or plagiarized and inspired by. To say that anything that takes inspiration from something else is stealing it would be to discount every new idea because everything takes inspiration for something. That's how humanity tells stories.

    Now, if Simba's name was Lionlet and Scar's was Clawdius, then we'd be edging on that plagiarized line (as we frequently are with Kimba the White Lion). But the similarities to Hamlet, while strong, are improvised enough for it not to be a carbon copy but rather expand or reinterpret that source material. (Queen Gertrude, for example, is always suspect at being complicit in her husband's death and too quick to get in bed with Claudius. Sarabi, on the other hand, when she walks through the lines of Hyenas, holds her head high with pride and disdain. She must do this because of the situation, but there is NO question as to whether or not she likes it.)

    And too, _R&G are Dead_ is NOT "stolen" from Shakespeare. That is a brilliant modernist play whose whole point is to prove that you don't have to be "the hero" of a story to be important. So the entire plot takes place "behind" the action of the _Hamlet_ plot to show what happens in the background and how that impacts the action of the foreground. It takes its title from the bit, throwaway line "R&G are dead" which is all the wrap-up the original play gives Hamlet's "best" friends. In Shakespeare, there's no closure there and their storyline is just sort of done, suggesting they weren't important enough to actually do anything with. The running theology behind Modernism is that life is crap, humans are crap, and we are just little insignificant things and no one is a hero--but there can be beauty in that grit and insignificance. So _R&G Are Dead_ sets out to prove that these bit characters are important and deserve a story of their own. It's really touching actually (if a little obtuse at times... It is Moderism after all, hahah!)

    For LK II, yes it an R&J story. Does that weaken it? If it does, that's only because that trope is so ingrained in us, and so overused as a crutch to tell a story (because the plot is already mapped out for you), that people may roll their eyes at it, and be justified in doing so. But even there there are moments of triumph over the original text. Seeing the herds turn on Kovu (Not One of Us!) and watching Simba deal with his own prejudice. That's all amazing, and are possible only because they are improvisations on a source text the audience is already pretty familiar with.

    So I'll say it again. For me, just because a text is taking points, tropes, or inspirations from another text does not discount the new one's validity or creativity outright. The next text's execution of that source material should be the point of judgment (was it a crutch? A lazy dressing? Or did it play with the source text in unexpected ways?). How different people judge that point is naturally up for debate, and is my own job security, hahah!

    And ESPECIALLY for something like Shakespeare, which I absolutely adore so so much, if there is ANYTHING that can work as a gateway into that wealth of literature that highbrow academics have fooled us into thinking is out of the common person's reach, then play on. Give me excess of it.

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     
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  13. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    I suppose I'm one of the rare oddities, but I never had any trouble reading Shakespeare. And the reason I bring up the whole Shakespeare/Lion King issue is that I DON'T think that LK does a particularly good job at making the message their own. So, for me at least, it FEELS like a cheap knock-off. I keep thinking of those god-awful imposter perfumes for Chanel or Obsession: "If you like 'Hamlet', then you'll love 'Lion King'..."

    Clearly, I'm in the minority in my opinion about 'Lion King', so I'll give in. I just want to say, that every time I hear someone say, "My favorite Disney movie is 'Lion King', I cringe exactly the same way as when I hear someone say, "My favorite Mexican restaurant is Taco Bell"...

    EDIT: I didn't mean for that to sound like I thought you LK fans have bad taste. I don't cringe at the TB remark because I think they have bad taste, it's just that the last time I tried TB I got really sick, so I don't see its appeal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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  14. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    And see, that's fine. :) if for you, LK did not properly excuse the Hamlet motif, or didn't add anything new to the mix other than a lion skin, then that's fine!

    But I think there's still value in adopting motifs from Shakespeare in an attempt to make them more accessible (or tolerable?) to those who don't so naturally take to good ol' Willie. :)

    I am also an allusionist. As in, I love seeing allusions made to other works that I know! In literature, games, film, you name it. It makes me feel like I've stumbled across an Easter egg! Or that I'm being rewarded for knowing this other thing. Not knowing or liking Hamlet shouldn't take away from liking or understand LK. But knowing Hamlet and catching the references (like Scar and the "Yorik" skull) could be a reward for that familiarity, which is how I see it. Or it could be a distraction for others.

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     
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  15. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    I totally get what you're saying. And I do feel a bit hypocritical because my FAVORITE Stitch pins are the "Stitch Invades" pins where he totally usurps known Disney canon and "makes it his own" (except he really doesn't because he's just portraying one of the missing characters).

    I'm glad we can all have discussions with strong opinions and NOT feel like we're attacking or being attacked. It's a welcome change from the world of politics (national and work-related).
     
  16. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    YEAH YEAH! :D That's what it's all about. :3 And I love getting differing opinions! For one, it's a perspective that I hadn't thought of and two, it helps me articulate why I think the way I do--so I have to actually ask myself "hrm, why DO I like this..." which is what I try to get my students to do all the time. :D

    I'm especially looking forward to this week (which I'll be posting shortly) as I think there will be some great perspectives coming out of it. :)
     
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  17. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Pocahontas (1995) AND A Goofy Movie (1995)

    Monday/Tuesday is our "wrap-up" discussion on The Lion King. So you're welcome to respond to other analyses throughout the day.

    However, you may not post any more full analyses for The Lion King to count for completion toward the 52 Challenge. No late homework. ;P

    Also, we have a Bonus Film this week! Generally, the conversation will lean on the primary film (Pocahontas), so if you can only watch one, go for that one. But you can watch both and do a separate analysis for each and earn two "points" toward your 52 Challenge! :)

    ~Merlin
     
  18. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    (I also know I'm ~way~ behind on badges! I'll catch up tomorrow! I promise! <3)
     
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  19. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

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    :p ok
     
  20. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    This is similar to another thought I had while watching - during the pouncing scene, where in the heck did Simba and Mufasa go? I know they were practicing staying low to the ground before the pounce, but even so, they were *right there* and the grass wasn't *that* tall!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    Perhaps blinded by fear? And we see what Zazu sees, only not from his point of view? Well that sounds kind of lame... Perhaps they wanted to fix this mistake with the Morning Report song?
     
  22. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Whoo! The badges are updated! Go back and double check I didn't miss anything. ;)
     
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  23. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    Aww I started my second row! :)
    *runs off to watch Pocahontas*
     
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  24. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

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    Sorry looks like i might miss this one. My library request didn't come threw yet for eithet movie.:( unless I'm able to enter by memory?
     
  25. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    I'd say come over and let's watch together, I got both movies but I'm too far away :'(
     

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