The Disney 52 Animated Challenge: Year-Long Activity - NOW PLAYING: Princess and the Frog

Discussion in 'DPF Game Room' started by MerlinEmrys, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

    Rating - 100%
    256   0   0

    Another earlier post due to being out of town again until Sunday night. Gotta make this quick since I leave soon to get on the road; hoping to squeak in my Goofy Movie analysis during a free moment this weekend if I can:

    Pocahontas

    1. Pocahontas is one of my least favorite of the Princess movies. I can sit through it, but probably wouldn't watch it much past doing a film series like this (well, the first one, at least. I tried watching the sequel multiple times and I think the longest I made it through either was about 25 minutes. Once Pocahontas starts singing about what a wonder London is - including the color red - I have to turn it off. I think it's the only Disney movie I have never been able to finish). There is just so much they changed from actual history to fit into the "princess who falls in love" frame, and it comes across as apologist with a much older Pocahontas falling in love and pursuing John Smith.

    I find John Smith really dull. I do admit that I am already biased against him because I DEEPLY LOATHE Mel Gibson. But his voice acting was really flat, and I don't think he had much of a character arc, besides realizing that the indigenous people aren't "savages."

    Poof Kocoum! He takes his position seriously and truly only wants what's best for the village, only to be dismissed by Pocahontas and Nakoma, killed by Thomas, and then basically forgotten by the end of the movie.

    Part of it might be to highlight the settlers' changing views towards Pocahontas and her people, but the constant use of slurs like "savage" - including an entire song - REALLY grated on my nerves. And more than just the language used, they played heavily on stereotypes, such as "indigenous people have mystical nature powers." It is good that they cast indigenous people in the main role and some of the major supporting characters, but still a good half of the indigenous characters were still voiced by white people.

    One of the bright spots in the movie for me, though, is watching the animation of Flit. For such a small character, they got some AMAZING body movements and facial expressions out of him! I mean, just look at these:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I am torn over Pocahontas staying at the end. I like that they didn't end the movie on "the guy gets the girl and everything is happily ever after," but that is completely negated almost immediately in the sequel and it reduces Kocoum's death to a meaningless plot point. It also doesn't make sense in regards to her destiny revealed by the vision of the compass; the entire movie was pushing her towards John Smith, but at the end she stays because she's needed in the village?

    2. They CRANKED UP the foppish effeminate villain trope to about 15 with Ratcliffe. He gets his crew to do the heavy work for him, he's dressed fancily especially for being in the wilderness, and his outfit is bright pink and includes a cape (and turns sparkly gold during his song). Even Percy, his pet, is finnicky about getting dirty at first.

    Interestingly, he is one of the only Disney villains to not die at the end of his movie. It's almost as if the movie itself is telling us that he's not enough of a threat to get rid of him permanently. He is defeated pretty easily; all it took was for his crew to stand up to him and subdue him, and then unceremoniously toss him onto the ship while he's tied up.


    7. The main lesson of the film is to look at the world through someone else's eyes. This is made plain during Colors of the Wind - the entire song is about looking outside of yourself and walking a mile in someone else's shoes to see beauty and intrinsic worth where before you only saw a resource to exploit or seeing someone else as less than.

    8. This movie has a tenuous connection to Lion King; after Powhatan learns that Pocahontas disobeys him, he tells her that she has disappointed her. I flashed back to Mufasa's talk with Simba about his disobeying Mufasa.

    9. I didn't really notice an iconic shot while watching. Even during Colors of the Wind, there wasn't one moment that was more iconic than the others to me. But I was captivated by this shot later on at the end of the Savages song:

    [​IMG]

    I liked how the two factions were reflected in the shadows of the clouds, and once the two clouds crashed into each other the violence erupted into the lightning strike.

    10. While I don't find Colors of the Wind visually iconic, the song itself certainly is! This pin highlights the song as a song (not visuals from the song part of the movie), and it also includes Meeko, my favorite character:

    [​IMG]

    Pin# 108044 - DSSH - Best Original Song Music Sheet - Pocahontas and Meeko


    Random Thought

    [​IMG]

    HOW ARE YOUR ARMS NOT DESTROYED? TALONS!!!!!!
     
  2. caw caw rawr

    caw caw rawr Squirrel!

    Rating - 100%
    49   0   0

    This made me laugh. And reminded me of this:
    [​IMG]

    Which also makes me laugh. :)
     
    pretty Omi and timeerkat like this.
  3. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0

    Oh how thoughtful of you! :)
    My thoughts exactly was by yhe time i got there Merlin would have cutoff, but it would have been a lovely thought needless to say!
    Thank you
     
    Meritre likes this.
  4. NutMeg

    NutMeg The Nefarious N.M.G.

    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0

    [​IMG]

    Girl don't forget the friggin' PIGTAILS... with BOWS...

    [​IMG]

    For real though, there are like a dozen times all throughout the movie when both Pocahontas and John def should have been seriously injured or just plain killed.

    [​IMG]
    HOW are you swimming against the current of a freakin' hurricane, John?? How is Thomas just floating there???? You're dead, you're both dead. Sorry, you just are. And even if you both somehow miraculously survive this, you would die of hypothermia on the ship after because it's the 17th century and your life expectancy is only like 35 so you're already pushing it.

    [​IMG]
    Broken neck

    [​IMG]
    Whiplash

    [​IMG]
    *sound of knees cracking*

    [​IMG]
    Mauled to death by protective mother bear whose cub you just stole

    [​IMG]
    Omg we literally JUST went over this. Pretty sure that's the same waterfall and everything.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  5. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    He thinks he is a Disney Princess :D Wears bows, wears princess colors. Typical that he thinks that's what makes a princess but we know better, right? :)
    I thought he took it a bit too seriously - he was the first to suggest violent methods to solve the problem and I never really liked that. As a grown up, I understand both him and Nacoma much better.
    I guess back then those were the ideas settler had about native americans :(
    And I guess these ideas are, sadly, present even today. I watched a video done by someone who used to be "friends with Pocahontas" and she said someone just randomly yelled 'Savage!' at her while "hanging out with Pocahontas". :( I don't think that is what we should take with us from the movie, it clearly shows how wrong it its :(
     
    MerlinEmrys likes this.
  6. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    Here comes Pocahontas, part 1:
    1. What is your overall impression of the film? Some possible talking points include: what you did or did not like about it; what about the film has stuck with you; what did you find different on this viewing; how would modern audiences respond to this (for the older films)… The list goes on. Hahah!
    I know this movie isn’t an easy one and forgive me if I make any offending comments, I do not do it intentionally. I thought a lot about why people dislike it, also asked some in the past why they dislike it and I think I partly understand. It’s very different form the source material (but so is The little Mermaid and its one of the mose beloved Disney movies) So I think I consider this more like a fictional tale, like Cinderella or The Little Mermaid or Mulan for that matter, that happened to use a real person and some real events to draw inspiration from. So I’m fine with it. (Mulan was also possibly a real person – we don’t know.)
    I didn’t manage to do a double watch this time as I’m trying to squeeze in a Bonus, too, (and let’s admit it, I was lazy) but I watched some small parts in English, bits I needed for my analysis.
    This is, like The Lion King, one of the three movies I also saw in a movie theatre and in the same one I saw The Lion King and the same cousin took us to see it. She even bought us a poster with Pocahontas and John Smith on it. I also had an album that could be filled with stickers with scenes from the movie and there were numbers to help us where to put the stickers.
    As a child I really liked that the leading lady got not only, but two beautiful songs. (Yes, I was really into dramatic songs and I still like them :$ ) Also that she was strong and independent and a good runner – everything I wasn’t but wanted to be.
    I can’t say anything about Mel Gibson’s voice acting as I watched the movie this time only once and that with the hun dub I know and like.
    I still love the soundtrach very much and it’s much more likely I listen to it than that I rewatch the movie.
    We had this movie on VHS – my parents bought something bigger as a Christmas present and got two movies as a gift – Pocahontas and Braveheart, so we got to watch these two quite often back then but I haven’t watched either of them in recent years.

    2. Choose one specific character to analyze. You can explore how a character acts, what they say, how they dress, etc. to explain what they may represent or their function and meaning in the narrative. Try to avoid obvious "plot" stuff (ex: the Evil Queen is a villain, so her purpose is to be bad...), but explore unique and specific elements about the character (ex: the EQ is surrounded by images of peacocks, further suggesting her obsession with vanity). You may also use these elements to explain why you connected or disconnected from the character.
    So many interesting characters to choose from but I think I’ll go with the main girl. She’s very different from the other Disney Princesses and I feel like she is one of the most mature of the princess gang. She loves nature and her home and her people and is very free spirited.
    She also handles disagreement with her father quite well. (Except for the scene after Kocums death – that one was a bad one for both parties) Better then Ariel – I apologize to all who like Arile but she really annoyed me when she said that she is already 16) Pocahontas has different opinions than his father but respects his opinion but still does what she thinks right. When there are serious consequences – Kocums death – she stops to think over what she did and seeks help from Grandother Willow.
    At the beginning she was confused where she was going in life but by the end she knows she connects her people and the settlers, with the help of John Smith. (And I give Powhatan credit for actually listening to her daughter and thinking over what she said – at the end when it really mattered.)
    She wears earthy colors that suit her.
    The real Pocahontas was one of the many children of the chief, most likely his favourite child.

    3. Choose one specific scene or sequence to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? Your analysis could include the scene’s use of color, action, camera angles, music, character development, setting, backdrop, style, etc. If you can justify it with evidence from the scene, then it’s an analysis!
    I think I’ll choose the part where we first meet Pocahontas. First, she‘s only mentioned and Kekata says “She goes where the wind takes her” (Here's more green and blue but the pink and purple tones are already there)
    [​IMG]
    After that, to connect the switch to where Pocahontas is, we follow the wind and the leaves it carries. It has beautiful, princessy colors like pink and purple, to show we are about to meet a princess, but they look very natural there as our princess is a nature lover.
    [​IMG]
    We slide through a dark forest...
    [​IMG]
    ...and see the river and arrive at a place with more light and the same pink and purple backgrounds.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Those make our dark haired princess really stand out and we focus on her as we go closer and closer to her and than around her while the wind blows through her hair.

    4. Choose one song to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? What purpose does this song have in the film and does it succeed in that purpose?
    I’m pretty sure Colors of the wind will be a popular choice so I’m going with ‘The Virginia Company’. As most of the songs at the beginnings of movies, it introduces the situation, the people and what are they about to do, why they leave and so on. It does a pretty good job, we know that they’re form London, going to America to find gold. But it is not complete, it presents only the settler’s part. We get the second half later in ‘Steady as the Beating Drum’ that introduces the other half of the story. While both halves work in themselves, those two parts need each other to make a complete picture.

    5. Choose one specific symbol in the film to analyze. A symbol is typically something inanimate, an object, rather than a character. So don’t say “Brer Bear represents dumb people,” as that’s more of a character analysis than a symbol. Rather, think about specific objects (jewelry, clothing, houses, food, weapons, etc.) What does this symbol mean and how does that meaning impact the film?
    First I was thinking about the leaves “the Colors of the wind”as the representers of Mother Nature and everything Pocahontas shows and teaches John Smith during that song. I switched it for the arrows that represent the native americans and their ways of thinking. (Wiggins, who had an arrow over his had did think that they attacked to protect their land) Pocahontas, as a member, sees something in them that shows the way (her dream) rather then a weapon, like the other. The counterpart are the guns who stand for the settlers, and there only John Smith has something like an arrow – the compass – in his possession and he is willing to talk to Pocahontas, to the native americans. His arrows is quite small though and is taken by Meeko, so he mostly relies on Pocahontas and although he tries to talk to his people, when he fails he think it’s no use to try again or that Pocahontas should talk to her people.
    But toward the end this very arrow leads Pocahontas – an ‘arrow’ belonging to a settler, showing her the way how to connect the two groups, with the help of Grandmother Willow.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
    MerlinEmrys, coblj003 and pincrazy like this.
  7. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    part 2:
    6. Choose a single line of dialog that you find to be the most significant/impactful line in the film and why. You can be a little loose with the “single line” bit, but let’s not go for Maleficent’s entire monologue to Philip... Rather, something like Stitch’s “This is my family. I found it all on my own. It’s little, and broken, but still good. Yeah – still good.” (brb weeping).
    I was thinking about choosing one of Grandmother Willow’s lines – she has a bunch of great ones in store. But then this one grabbed my attention:
    “You know it’s yellow. It comes out of the ground. It’s really valuable” – ”Oh, here, we have lots of it. Here!”
    The description fits. And in the end, it was even more valuable to the settlers than gold – food is essential for survival.
    It also shows the generous spirit of Pocahontas, she shares what she has when she hears they came for it.
    It also sums up an important part of the movie: What is really valuable? Is it gold? Is it peace? Is it nature? Is it food? It makes the watchers think, what is really valuable and I think that is a really important aspect of the movie.

    7. What is this film’s overall goal? Is it to teach a specific lesson (what is it) or get an emotional response (such as)? Or both? And how well or poorly does the film succeed in that goal? Be specific!
    I think it is a great movie to make children aware of Nature, of disagreements that can lead to war and that people look different and have different habits different culture and it should be okay and not something to start a war about. (I always felt Radcliffe hated them because they looked different and only looked for and excuse to get rid of them) It’s the first step so they take an interest and maybe even research things. I know it did the thing for me.
    The idea was great but perhaps the execution didn’t turn out that perfect.
    I wouldn’t look for an accurate representation of their world in this movie just as I wouldn’t expect Hercules or any of the movies about Thor accurate to the source materials. But they all can do the trick to make the viewer take an interst and look up how native americans lived back than and how they live today, read greek or Scandinavian myths – I think them quite interesting and I read them around the time I saw Pocahontas, I think, give or take a year. (I even had my sister read me aloud my favourite parts)

    8. What connections or progressions do you see in this film to past films? Example: how does Sleeping Beauty progress (or digress?) the princess archetype built in Cinderella? Be specific! Also, consider what use there is in returning to or re-imagining those elements?
    Pocahontas continues going down the path of the brave and active Princesses. She does the most of the Princesses, not counting the ones that came after her. She saves her love interest, prevents war and does what she can to help, to maintain peace. She’s also the first princess to not get a complete happy ending.

    9. What is the iconic shot of the film? What single frame of animation do you find to be the most memorable and why? Post it! You can check out this link to find some great screencaps to help!
    There are quite a few iconic elements in this movie – The song Colors of the wind, the leaves the wind carries and so on. After a lot of thinking I decided that Pocahontas standing on a rock is quite iconic:
    [​IMG]

    Runner up:
    [​IMG]

    10. What single pin do you think best represents this film for you? Why? Give us the pin number and post a picture!
    It hast he first meating picture of Pocahontas which is also quite iconic in my opinion, tha wind with the leaves and the much needed wisdom in form of Grandmother Willow.

    Pin 11456 History of Art - Pocahontas (1995)

    [​IMG]





    Stray thoughts:

    I wanted to point out that one and realized you already did it.

    I like how during this song Pocahontas’ voice, although she’s only one person and the pthers are two big groups, can be clearly heard. The voice of reason in that moment – war is too terrible and must be prevented if possible :(

    I don’t really understand how they could talk suddenly. Were the spirits around them doing the translating?

    As far as I know the natives suffered more losses because of the illnesses the settlers brought with them, then because of direct killing. Of course the Settlers killed many with their weapons but more people died because of those illnesses, their systems just couldn’t fight them. (I have this from a history book so I think it’s a reliable source)

    The real Pocahontas’ wasn’t actually called Pocahontas – Pocahontas is her nickname, meaning little wanton, little playful one (there are different interpretations) I found that her real name was Matoaka, but later she was also known as Amonute. Matoaka means "Bright Stream Between the Hills"; Amonute has not been translated. There is also a source that her name was Matoax but that name was hidden from the English. This reminds me of Chihiro and Spirited away – people how know your name have power over you and can harm you.
    Apparently, names were really important and they handled them differently than we do today, they had more than one and some names were only told a selected few. They even changed names on imoortant occasions.
    When se became Christian she took the name Rebecca.

    A friend of mine had to watch it for a class last semester and she didn’t like it. She watched it for the first time and has little to no connection with Disney movies from her childhood. As an adult, she thought lots of things didn’t really make sense. She mentioned the language barrier and everything from @NutMeg 's list:


    She asked me about my impressions as a child – and back then I wasn’t bothered one bit by these. I took it as a fairytale and there these things are possible.

    She also thought that the Wind was the Mother but as far as I remember that idea was dropped or am I wrong?
     
    MerlinEmrys, coblj003 and pincrazy like this.
  8. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    51   0   0

    Back from my conference, and now I have two movies to do! OK, first off, “Pocahontas”, a solid Disney princess movie though not really one of my favorites by any means.

    1. My overall impression of the movie… Several things:

    The major issue I have with this movie is that it is based on a real-life story. That’s not the bad thing; it’s Disney’s penchant for changing facts willy-nilly that bothers me about this movie. The biggest issue for me, of course, is that I don’t always know WHAT they changed and WHAT they left historically accurate. As long as I don’t take the movie too seriously, or treat it like a documentary, I suppose I’ll be okay but then it colors what I THINK is historically accurate because I don’t know if Disney is telling the TRUTH (where is Genie with that chalkboard??) or if this was something they changed to “make the story better”. Ugh.

    My other two issues are colored by this uncertainty (i.e., are these real issues from history or just Disney making up a story that doesn’t flow logically??). First one is the “saving John Smith” scene. I know that historically Pocahontas and John Smith were friends and not “love interests”. But the dramatic way in which Pocahontas saves John Smith seems to work with the whole love interest angle. I can almost hear Ariel saying, “But Daddy, I love him!” But I also can’t help but feel this would have been a more powerful scene if Pocahontas was saving John Smith because it was the right thing to do, to stand up to her father when he was about to do something wrong. That’s what leaders (or future leaders) do. I guess in my mind, this whole romance angle diminishes or cheapens Pocahontas’s bravery in saving John Smith—not because she was doing what she knew was right but that she was trying to save her “true love” (still okay, just not nearly as noble).

    The second issue I have is the whole gold obsession. Is this historically accurate? I know that settlers were looking for riches (foodstuffs like sugar, rum that could be made from sugar, cotton, etc. etc.), but were they specifically looking for gold? Also, as a chemist, I couldn’t help but think ‘Why are you just randomly digging for gold? Aren’t there signs/conditions that you should be looking for that would tell you gold would be more likely to be there?’ It just made Radcliffe and the soldiers seem pretty stupid in my eyes.


    2. I chose to analyze John Smith. I know I get hung up on the voices way too much, but it’s really difficult for me to separate out the character of John Smith in the film from Mel Gibson. As many may know, Gibson has quite the reputation as a racist, sexist, homophobe, and anti-Semite. In short, everything John Smith isn’t supposed to be in this film and the very antithesis of the open-minded and reasonable character Disney is trying to make John Smith… To be fair, the extent of his deplorable beliefs was probably not well known (even to Disney) when he was cast to do this voice.

    Unfortunately (at least for me), what this does is make the initial “thoughtless” ideas expressed by/about John Smith (“can’t fight Indians without John Smith”, “leave the savages to me”) up to and during his initial meeting with Pocahontas play much more “real” and “long-lasting” than they should and makes me immediately suspicious of his transformation. Even without the voice issue, John Smith admits in the film that he’s been to many foreign lands and met many “savages”, so if that’s the case, why was he so easily swayed by the comments from Pocahontas and why didn’t this kind of transformation happen many foreign lands ago? It just makes this particular transformation hard to believe/accept and makes it feel very contrived and fake.

    It also doesn’t help that Disney made John Smith blond haired and blue eyed in this movie, contrary to his real appearance. It just feels like a nod to Mel Gibson’s inherent anti-Semitism and perhaps ties to the Nazi viewpoint. I mean, it’s like Mel Gibson said, “OK, I’ll do this movie… but only if you make him a blond, blue-eyed symbol of the Aryan race.” This probably didn’t happen, but John Smith in the movie certainly looks the part!

    [​IMG]

    3. (and 4.) The scene I chose to analyze is the lead-up to the war and the song “Savages”. It’s interesting that fear of the unknown seems to be driving both of these sides to war. But it is also telling that, while it appears that all of the Native Americans including the chief are acting in good faith (albeit based on fears that may or may not be warranted or real) and the soldiers of London appear to be acting in good faith, the soldiers are being manipulated and lied to by Radcliffe into doing his bidding. Only Radcliffe is shown to be acting duplicitously, using the war as a way to get his precious gold. As a result, it makes the Native American appear to be virtuous and the soldiers to be in the wrong in this particular conflict. It makes me wonder what it would have looked/felt like if both sides felt equally “virtuous” in leading up to the war, and would have been a much more compelling story of the lead-up to a war (but obviously, I’m wanting too much from Disney to not have a villain…).

    Even in the song “Savages”, the arguments from the two sides shows an imbalance in the attitudes that (consciously by Disney writers or not) favors the virtuousness/civility of the Native Americans over the soldiers:

    Soldiers/Radcliffe: “They’re not like you and me, which means they must be evil.”
    Native Americans/Chief: “They’re different from us, which means they can’t be trusted.”


    4. and 6. and 7. The song I chose to analyze was “Colors of the Wind” because it, along with (hopefully) our disdain at the quote from John Smith in response to Pocahontas saying that their huts were decent homes, “You think that, only because you don’t know any better”, seems to be the goal of this movie.

    The song seems to be Pocahonta’s response to John Smith’s ideas about “savages” and “uncivilized people”. I really like the message of this song, which is to open your eyes and see that just because people are different than you doesn’t make them wrong or evil (see comments above in 3. and 4.). A couple of stand-out quotes from the song: “You think the only people who are people, are the people who look and think like you,” and “You’ll learn things you never knew you never knew”. Very cool lyrics, and point-on in terms of the overall message of the movie.


    8. Some progressions to discuss:

    First and foremost, this is a Disney princess movie. So, there are requirements!
    • Disney princesses get along very well with woodland creatures (as evidenced by story-time with Pocahontas, said woodland creatures, and Grandmother Willow—CHECK!).
    • Disney princesses must especially get along with birds (Flit—CHECK!).
    • Disney princesses must have an overly protective father (Triton, Sultan, Maurice?, etc.) who is more interested in getting their daughter married off and protected by her strong/stable husband than letting her live her life the way she wants (CHECK!).
    • Disney princesses should resist their father’s marital urges and instead try to live a life of adventure and find “true love” on their own (CHECK!).
    • Disney princesses must have a love interest, so the real friendship of Pocahontas and John Smith had to be converted into a Disney fairy tale (CHECK!). I really wish they hadn’t done this, but it IS Disney, after all…

    As a positive, I will say that this movie’s depictions of Native Americans was MUCH better than what “Peter Pan” had done. Not nearly so cringe-worthy, but still far from perfect. My, what 50 years (or so) will do to “race relations”.


    9. The image that sticks in my head is Pocahontas with her hair blowing along with the leaves in the “Colors of the Wind” song.

    [​IMG]

    10. OK, I don’t want to do anything with John Smith and Pocahontas because, Disney romance story notwithstanding, they weren’t a couple. Instead chose this one (2681) showing Pocahontas getting advice from Grandmother Willow, along with Stitch’s interpretation of this scene (36860).

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    MerlinEmrys and coblj003 like this.
  9. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    51   0   0

    I also find it interesting, and contradictory, for this movie to take real-life people and randomly change some historical facts while leaving others intact to then include the line "You'll learn things you never knew you never knew."

    Yeah, 'cause they're NOT TRUE!!!
     
    timeerkat likes this.
  10. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    Yay, it's feeding time for the Loch Ness Monster (I'm the Loch Ness Monster of the Chat - I only surface there when the talk is about this challenge - so I'm the Loch-Ness Monster who feeds on Disney Analyses :D Feeding time mostly during weekends)
     
    pincrazy and timeerkat like this.
  11. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    As far as I know, they did look for gold. And yes Radcliffe is stupid.
     
  12. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0

    My daughter was able to find Pocahontas for me on Netflix, so I was able to watch it on her phone.:p Yay!

    Here goes...
    1) Overall, I'm conflicted, and maybe it's the times, but I remember earlier I found the storyline acceptable. Now it seems contrived, and sadly just another Disneyfied princess movie. Hearing Mel Gibson's voice doesn't help the situation knowing his stance and prejudice. I'd say this movie hasn't held up through time. While probably trying to make an audience aware of early America and credibility to a Native American female for saving a white man's fate, it feels like formulated storytelling with beautiful background animation
    2) Grandmother Willow is the mystical tree that acts as the wise counselor/conscience to Pocahontas. It seems common for Disney movies to have this type of character as the one with reason and benevolence for the main character.
    4) just Around the Riverbend is a song of choices and the decisions one has to make and the wonder of which path to take. It's the fear/apprehension of making the right choice for yourself at the fork in the road.
    5) The symbol most stressed was difference, whether it be beliefs, color of skin, love, standards, what's valuable, society, and wealth. Maybe not so much a symbol but an idea of who's right.
    10) Thought there were more pins, but #85701 has Pocahontas standing without Smith in her arms, and portrayed her as a strong female along with the other characters as well.

    Thanks everyone for your suggestions and assistance in not being left out.
    That's my 5 for this week, and since my daughter needed her phone back and we're away for the weekend no extra credit this time.
    TTFN till next week, my 5 are in, YAY :stitch:
     
  13. NutMeg

    NutMeg The Nefarious N.M.G.

    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0

    Is the deadline for Pocahontas tonight or tomorrow (Sunday?) Please tell me tomorrow....
     
    MerlinEmrys likes this.
  14. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0

    Usually Sunday afternoon is cutoff. Although officially it's late Saturday but he's allowing us to post longer than before. A sure thing is if you don't see Merlin's analysis, than you should be able to add yours.:stitch:
     
    MerlinEmrys and NutMeg like this.
  15. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    I simply couldn't really connect with this movie so the analysis is quite short and not really good :( But with this one, I should be halfway to halfway.

    (Bonus! A Goofy Movie (1995))

    1. What is your overall impression of the film? Some possible talking points include: what you did or did not like about it; what about the film has stuck with you; what did you find different on this viewing; how would modern audiences respond to this (for the older films)… The list goes on. Hahah!
    It’s an interesting movie. I feel like I should relate to it since I was the same – clumsy, everybody laughing at me and I was being bullied, yet I wasn’t really enthusiastic about it. Maybe because I never really had trouble with my parent growing up? I still think the idea is good and a nice material for a movie. But I was still struggling my way through this watch.

    2. Choose one specific character to analyze. You can explore how a character acts, what they say, how they dress, etc. to explain what they may represent or their function and meaning in the narrative. Try to avoid obvious "plot" stuff (ex: the Evil Queen is a villain, so her purpose is to be bad...), but explore unique and specific elements about the character (ex: the EQ is surrounded by images of peacocks, further suggesting her obsession with vanity). You may also use these elements to explain why you connected or disconnected from the character.
    Roxanne is a pretty girl yet she’s not full of herself and her style is not too girly – from my experience, they love to give tha main characters love interst some nice really girly clothes but not Roxanne. She just wears normal clothes, white flats, jeans and a green top, no pink princessy colors – after all she’s not a grownup and it’s summer – time for comfortable clothes. Also she’s not into the popular guy in the school she likes Max who’s clumsy.

    3. Choose one specific scene or sequence to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? Your analysis could include the scene’s use of color, action, camera angles, music, character development, setting, backdrop, style, etc. If you can justify it with evidence from the scene, then it’s an analysis!
    When father and son are on the road and Max is unhappy because of missing the date with Roxanne. His father is trying to entertain him after the radio broke. it is colorful so it is perfect to cheer max up the music is good – or Goofy thinks so. But his son has a different taste in music – I guess they both like what they grew up with. There are even dancers, a complete show, yet Max is still unhappy. It foreshadows that this conflict that just started to build up is going to take a bit longer to sort out.
    Their car is yellow - a sunny, summary color matching the going on vacation theme.
    The conflict gets worse and wors at the opossum park and explodes – and it starts to rain to indicate the negative feelings of both parties.

    4. Choose one song to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? What purpose does this song have in the film and does it succeed in that purpose?
    “After Today” is all about how much they long for the summer vacation like all kids when it is only a few hours away. It also introduces Max and his clumsiness and some of the important characters like Roxanne.

    5. Choose one specific symbol in the film to analyze. A symbol is typically something inanimate, an object, rather than a character. So don’t say “Brer Bear represents dumb people,” as that’s more of a character analysis than a symbol. Rather, think about specific objects (jewelry, clothing, houses, food, weapons, etc.) What does this symbol mean and how does that meaning impact the film?
    The map seemed to be an interesting choice. I think it stands for the relationship between father and son – first Goofy and his dad, now Goofy and his son Max. It changes when Maxadds to it just as the relationships change. And reappears just when their relationship is fully mended.

    6. Choose a single line of dialog that you find to be the most significant/impactful line in the film and why. You can be a little loose with the “single line” bit, but let’s not go for Maleficent’s entire monologue to Philip... Rather, something like Stitch’s “This is my family. I found it all on my own. It’s little, and broken, but still good. Yeah – still good.” (brb weeping).
    “More Hi Dad soup please”
    It’s they first step mending their relationship so I think it’s really important in a movie about parent – child relationships. It also expresses that these two love each other – Max sending the first message ‘hi dad’ that is made of letters from the soup. And although it becomes worse again after this I still thinks it’s important

    7. What is this film’s overall goal? Is it to teach a specific lesson (what is it) or get an emotional response (such as)? Or both? And how well or poorly does the film succeed in that goal? Be specific!
    I think it show the struggles of an avareage teenager – hot they have trouble expressing themselves and with their relationships – with crush, with parent – and shows how important it is to mend them all and work out something that satisfies both parties. And perhaps accepting that others like different things.

    8. What connections or progressions do you see in this film to past films? Example: how does Sleeping Beauty progress (or digress?) the princess archetype built in Cinderella? Be specific! Also, consider what use there is in returning to or re-imagining those elements?
    Although is not really like Ducktales – Treasure of the lost lamp, that movie was the first one that came to my mind when I started to watch it. It’s not ste story but there is definitely something that makes them similar.
    That eggs and bacon simle reminded me of Mulan and the breakfast Mushu presents her.

    9. What is the iconic shot of the film? What single frame of animation do you find to be the most memorable and why? Post it! You can check out this link to find some great screencaps to help!
    I guess father and son dancing togethjer is pretty iconic? They dance more than once during the movie, I choose the first one:
    [​IMG]

    10. What single pin do you think best represents this film for you? Why? Give us the pin number and post a picture!
    I choose Goffy and son on the road – it’s both the journey on the road and the journey to grow as persons – sums up the movie pretty well, I think:
    Pin 16125 M & P - History of Art - Goofy Movie (1995)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  16. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

    Rating - 100%
    477   0   0

    Man, Sundays are so busy now... I'll have to type up my Goofy Movie one when I get home tonight. But at least I got Pocahontas done on time. XD


    1. Overall Impression
    This viewing pretty much reinforced what I’ve always felt about this film: meh… It’s good, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not something that I’ve ever felt overly connected to or overly fond of. I would much rather see a film of Pocahontas exploring her world rather than the interactions with John Smith. The love story was definitely the least interesting part, and frankly too “convenient” and unbelievable in points for me. Whether that be the film’s poor handling of the passage of time, or that I really don’t like Mel Gibson and it’s difficult for me to separate him from some of Smith’s lines, it ultimately pulls this film down the list for me. I think Moana is exactly what this film wanted to be, which makes Pocahontas a bit dated in terms of how it treats different ethnicities and cultures, and heroines.

    Overall, I’d call the film very pretty—but much of its substance is on its sleeve.


    2. Character Analysis
    Coming on the heels of Lion King, I’ve had Shakespeare on the mind lately. So observing Wiggins, I consider him the sort of “Fool” character prominent in many of Shakespeare’s works. On the surface, the Fool is a dunce, and idiot, and just there for the comedy. But underneath and between the lines, the Fool is often the most observant of the cast and is able to voice the facts of the matter unfiltered because no one else takes them seriously. The audience, of course, catches the Fool’s drift, and is sort of “let in” to the “real” perspective of the play.

    Wiggins works in a similar fashion. He’s mostly a dandy, prancing about, waiting on Percy and Radcliffe, and making (fabulous) topiaries. But periodically, he gets to drop some knowledge that gets passed over by the characters, but hopefully not the audience. For example, when Radcliffe is considering why the “heathens” attacked them, Wiggins responds candidly:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Radcliffe plows through the logic, preferring his own convenient “truth.” But of course, the audience knows that’s exactly why the Native Americans attacked. Wiggins, for all intents and purposes, is the most grounded and observant of the group. Interestingly, he’s voiced by David Ogden Stiers, who also voices Radcliffe. Something like this doesn’t happen often, or by accident (Remember Hook and Wendy’s Father?). So that further connects the two as extremes of logic and sets Wiggins up as that Shakespearean Fool who is the smartest of the bunch but constantly overlooked by the power-players.


    3. Scene Analysis
    When John Smith and Pocahontas first meet, the construction of the scene is just unsettling for me. I know it’s supposed to be this sort of mystic reveal, but to me it just feels “gaze”-y. Pocahontas is clouded in the mist of the waterfall, so the first thing we see (from Smith’s perspective—we’ve already met Poca) is her figure/silhouette. Then Smith’s jaw drops and we zoom to her face, the mist subtly framing her outline and accentuating her lips, and her majestic hair flapping in the breeze (as it does…). If this is the point where Smith is supposed to fall in love with Poca, then it’s based on how she looks and, even more than that, the filmmakers mimic this synecdoche in her reveal. It just didn’t sit right with me for some reason.


    4. Song Analysis
    For all its accolades, “Colors of the Wind” is definitely not my favorite, or even the most significant, song in this film. While it’s lovely, its message is a little “on the nose” or prescribed at points. “Just Around the Riverbend”, on the other hand, does a better job of not only revealing Pocahontas’ character to the audience, but providing a moral compass to the film without beating you over the head with it: “Should I choose the smoothest course / Steady as the beating drum” vs. “You think you own whatever land you land on / The earth is just a dead thing you can claim”


    6. Dialog Analysis
    I like Radcliffe because he’s such a crappy villain, hahah (I can also rock his song)! For the most part, his most dangerous ability is to rally people to his side (which is definitely potent), but his foppishness more often undercuts that. However, one line was particularly sinister and definitely rankled me: “A man’s not a man, unless he knows how to shoot.” That sort of toxic masculinity is extremely troubling to me, on a personal level, and I would argue is what’s ultimately most dangerous here. Because of this comment, Thomas goes off to find Smith, and ends up shooting Kocoum to prove himself more than a “slipshod sailor and a poor excuse for a soldier.”


    8. Connections
    There were many moments that I saw some connection to Sleeping Beauty in terms of background art. One of the most striking things about SB is the rigidly straight lines of the trees and wood, which is echoed here, albeit more softly:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    That sort of artistic element is what really makes this film beautiful. The sweeping backgrounds are breathtaking (much more than the love story, *cough cough*)


    9. Iconic Shot
    For all the amazing shots we have in the film, I think what I remember most and always connect to Pocahontas is when our title character jumps off that waterfall. It’s so ridiculous, but damn is it majestic:

    [​IMG]

    (10. Representative Pin:

    Crap, gotta go. I'll have to edit and find it again tonight.)


    Stray Thoughts:

    *I enjoyed the subtle ways in which the primary plot line was played out in nature/B Characters. Meeko and Percy, for example, or that really awesome shot where the smoke/clouds meet and crash during “Savages”:

    [​IMG]

    Dang, there are so many cool shots in this sequence………
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I think it’s one of the more moving songs in the film…


    *I know it’s kind of trendy or a major internet thing to see characters and platonic relationships as gay, but I have always thought there was something between Poca and Nakoma….. Even when I was younger, I rationalized Nakoma’s going to Kocoum as a sort of jealous betrayal because Poca was running off with Smith. I don’t know, it’s just not something I can shake, hahah!

    [​IMG]


    *I would be remiss in my duties to not share some of my favorite Kocoum Meme gifs….. Please enjoy.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    pincrazy likes this.
  17. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    Favourite part of the analysis
    Such beutiful colors and scenery!
    Is there even a love story? It's packed into a few minutes, it's not much longer in the movie, just a few days. A bit too fast from I'm not trusting you one bit to I love you I'd rather die thtn never know you.

    Those are some of my favourite shots! :)


    I just rememberes another thought. I didn't really miss 'If I never knew you' I only wanted it to be in the movie because one of my favourite musical actors did the singing for hon John Smith. But Nakoma comes very soon after Pocahontas to tell her it's time to leave - without the song, it seemed to me a bit too short but with it it would be fine - stop singing already, it's time to go, Poca.
     
    MerlinEmrys and coblj003 like this.
  18. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    51   0   0

    OK, just finished watching “The Goofy Movie”.

    1. and 8. My overall impression of the movie… Several things:

    First off, this doesn’t feel especially “Disney” to me, Goofy notwithstanding. This movie just feels like every other teenager angst movie about first love, being embarrassed by your parents, spending time with said parents, and learning that you have a lot in common and that you love your parents. This film could have been cast with non-Disney characters and it really wouldn’t have to change at all. As such, I don’t really feel like this movie has anything new to add to this genre. A fun film, but not ground-breaking and not new.

    Second, I’m REALLY not a fan of slapstick physical humor that is part and parcel of the Goofy magic. As such, several of the scenes in this movie read as really cringe-worthy to me instead of fun or endearing. This movie reminds me of and links back to the theater scene in “Who Framed Roger Rabbit?” where Roger is watching a Goofy cartoon. Roger, and the rest of the audience, are really getting into Goofy’s magic, but his cartoons have always left me unimpressed… It also reminds me of the TV show “Three’s Company” where everyone loved the screwball physical antics of John Ritter, but all it did was make me detest the actor and his character.

    The one new thing I noticed in this movie (which might actually contradict my comment above that this film gives us nothing new), is that this is the first time I’ve seen a teen angst movie hint to us that the “unattainable love interest” (Roxanne) might actually be a bit socially inept, shy/scared, and actually into the goofy teen main character. Max obviously didn’t notice this, but I did!

    An obvious Disney call-back in this movie is the animatronic Lester Possum’s show, which is totally a parody of the Country Bear Jamboree. What’s interesting is that a Disney movie is totally making fun (and slight) of a Disney staple. I expect other non-Disney films to take a cheap shot at CBJ but I was surprised to see an actual Disney film do that too!


    2. I thought about analyzing Roxanne, but I chose to analyze Pete because he’s a cat. Pete is normally the villain in the Mickey Mouse cartoons, and he does still play the blow-hard bully in this film. He is Goofy’s boss (and maybe friend?) and, in contrast to Goofy, who seems to get along really well with children, Pete doesn’t seem to give much of a damn about other people liking him. In fact, he implies to Goofy later in the movie that he is more concerned that PJ (Pete Jr.) respect him rather than love him.

    Pete gives Goofy advice in raising Max, but I can’t quite tell if Pete is genuinely trying to help Goofy be a better father (read: Just like Pete) or if it’s more of a compulsion for Pete to tell other people what to do and be in control. I guess it doesn’t really matter, but I don’t feel like it was resolved in the movie and it does ultimately color how I feel about Pete as a character and as a father.


    3. The scene I chose to analyze is the Big Foot camping scene. As I mentioned before, I am NOT a fan of the slapstick physical comedy. As such, this scene really bothered me and was really cringe-worthy. The whole Big Foot character, and his obsession with hanging out on Goofy’s car for several hours (when in reality he would probably get bored and move on) was over-the-top and not believable (yeah, I know, I want Big Foot to be believable). Also, the whole Big Foot likes disco was unnecessary and cringe-worthy. The scene did allow Max and Goofy to bond over past happy memories and “Hi Dad soup”. It was kind of endearing, but this kind of scene is a requisite part of any get-kids-to-appreciate-their-parents movie.


    4. The song I chose to analyze is song Max sings after school, in which he is totally reveling in his newly-found popularity and coolness (“Stand Out”). Max ends the song feeling really good about his life—I mean, he’s living the teenage dream of suddenly becoming the most popular kid at school—only to find out that his dad has planned a family vacation that is totally going to ruin his new popularity and his life. Goofy plays it heavy-handed, tying this trip to his childhood trips with his father and (not completely successfully) trying to guilt Max into agreeing to the trip. This song sets up the whole premise of the movie, which is that Max’s life (as he sees it) is totally being ruined by his dad and his goofiness.


    6. and 7. The quotes I chose to analyze was Goofy saying, “You look just like I did at your age,” and Max responding, “Please don’t say that, Dad”. Again, this is such a classic idea for the teenage coming-of-age angst movies. Universally, kids (especially teenagers) are embarrassed of their parents and fear becoming just like them, as evidenced by Max’s nightmare at the beginning of the film into turning into his father. More importantly, it appears that Max is afraid of becoming his father because he’s afraid that will drive Roxanne away (note her fear in the nightmare when he turns into his father).

    And as all of these movies do, this one eventually gets the teenager Max to realize that he is like his dad in some ways, and that’s OK. In fact, one of the things that Roxanne likes about Max is his laugh, which is totally something he got from his father. This is the goal of the movie, but let’s face it, it’s been played out before in many, many, MANY other teenager/family movies.


    9. I couldn’t really think of an iconic image from this movie, so I chose the moment when Max and Roxanne awkwardly fall for each other, another requisite scene for the typical teenage angst movie.

    625 × 415 - buzzfeed.com

    10. There really aren’t many “Goofy Movie” pins, so I chose this one (16125) because it’s got Max and Goofy on it, and it does pay homage to the whole “road-trip” theme of the movie.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
    MerlinEmrys, coblj003 and raikipins like this.
  19. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    Now I remember another thing I wanted to add to my Goofy analysis: there were at least two Ariels in there, one was a lamp but I have forgotten the other :(

    One always learns a lot of new things here. I didn't know that.

    Once more, I choose the same pin you did :) But you found a better picture.
     
    MerlinEmrys likes this.
  20. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    51   0   0

    It's funny, but I don't think I've ever seen everyone say the exact same thing in their critiques until now: We just don't seem to like Mel Gibson!
     
  21. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0

    A little later then usual but I had to get a new image host as photobucket finally kicked me out...

    1. Overall Impression
    [​IMG]
    This is one of the heavily criticized movies due it's portrayal of historical fable vs fact. It is loosely based on the tale provided by John Smith, though it seems to share more storyline with Romeo and Juliet. As the A movie(versus the b movie Lion King) it certainly could tell that careful direction was given to the titular character(by animator Glen Keane), her scenes are one of the best in any Disney Movie. The artistic direction in this film is very strong and is one of the best examples from the Disney Renaissance; the colors of the wind sequence alone is one of the best sequences the Disney studio has animated. The Soundtrack by Alan Menken is spectacular with the singing voice of Judy Kuhn Mesmerizing as pocahontas(she is voiced by Irene Bedard). I feel that the sidekick pet characters were an addition given as an afterthought for merchandising as they generally hold no advancement of plot other then cuteness. Casting is unique with the now Hollywood standard of having many of the Natives portrayed only by Native Americans or those that share native heritage. It's nods to actual history is interesting, Governor Wolfe is based on an actual president of the Virginia company who is forced to step down due to mismanagement as well as hiding rations(as well as a gruesome death by the natives of being skinned alive). George Percy was his replacement who had the ill fortune of commanding Jamestown under its Starvingtime. The character Thomas is an amalgamation of Thomas Savage and Henry Spelman. two boys used as translators amongst the Powatans but worth noting weren't in the initial expedition of Jamestown. Kokoum is a nod to whom is believed to be Pocahantas' first husband. I find it strange that they limited the ships to only the Susan Constance versus showing the other two of the expedition fleet.

    4. Song Analysis

    If I never met you was actually a song that was cut due to audiences(children) not caring for it. It features Mel Gibson's own singing voice which isn't too bad. Personally I find the song a little lackluster and melancholy and don't mind that it was cut from the film.

    8. Connections/Progressions
    The first meeting of the Powatans offer a glimpse of the of a natural landscape. It's tall trees and lined people are reminiscent of the Ave Maria Sequence from Fantasia.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    9. Iconic Scene
    [​IMG]
    The watercolor effect during the colors of the wind sequence is by far one of my favorite scenes of this movie, Disney apparently offered a sneak peak of the movie during special screenings with the Lion King with this sequence.

    10. Representative pin
    Pin 24587 Pocahontas plastic - colors of the wind
    [​IMG]
    Another iconic scene is the first meeting of John/Pocahontas. This it is wierd that it is described as the song sequence.
    [​IMG]

    Stray thought
    The main reason this movie gets a lot of flack is it perpetuation of the pocahantas myth 400 years later. This video gives a frank if comedic explanation of this topic.


    Does anyone else get that baywatch vibe?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
    MerlinEmrys and pincrazy like this.
  22. NutMeg

    NutMeg The Nefarious N.M.G.

    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0

    Just got home from a weekend wedding on an island, will post my analysis shortly! For once I honestly didn't think I was going to write that much, but I guess I had a lot of unresolved feelings about this movie that finally came spilling out haha. Because once I started I couldn't stop. xD
     
  23. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

    Rating - 100%
    256   0   0

    Just got home (so much traffic!), working on Goofy Movie now!
     
  24. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

    Rating - 100%
    256   0   0

    A Goofy Movie

    1. Overall I liked this. Though it wasn't quite on the same level as the mainstream Disney movies, but it was still enjoyable. And it was a definite improvement over its closest counterpart, Lost Lamp (more on that later).

    The main characters are very relatable and likable. It helps that we've known one of the main characters for decades, and those who have seen Goof Troop know the formula for the character relationships. The little cameos, like the Mickey phone and the mention of Donald and seeing Mickey himself, were fun little nods to the world of the Fab Five.

    I wish Roxanne was given more to do She was put in basically as a romantic goal for Max, and even when she was just talking with Stacey, her conversation was about him. We aren't event really privy as to why Max has a crush on her (just because she's pretty? Because she's one of the only people at their school who's nice to him? Do they have common interests besides liking Powerline?) Giving her more backstory or dialogue outside of liking Max would have allowed us to know her better.


    4. Lester’s Possum Park is a funny, charming song that at first just seems like a fluffy novelty song, but acts as a great window into Goofy and Max’s relationship at this point. Goofy finds it delightful, and enjoys it no matter what anyone else thinks. Meanwhile, Max is beyond embarrassed to be there. He sees it as childish and a waste of time, and wants nothing more to do with childish things. His throwing the possum hat down on the ground was a physical rejection of this. This adds to the conflict between the two of not understanding the other's point of view.

    It was very reminiscent to me of County Bear Jamboree (though that ride never got to the level of disrepair that Lester’s did).

    7. The goal of the movie is to teach the lesson of seeing a situation through someone else's viewpoint. Max is wrapped up in his own world, and Goofy is too afraid of what he imagines Max's future holds to actually talk to him about his present state of mind. This leads to Goofy bringing Max along to a trip he didn't want to go on and Max resenting him. When they finally took the time to listen to each other they overcame their conflict and worked together to achieve both their goals (Max going to the concert an Goofy spending quality time with Max).

    8. The closest counterpart to Goofy Movie would be Lost Lamp, as both were movies that were based on Disney Afternoon shows. But unlike Lost Lamp, which really felt like a regular episode with fluff added to bump up the runtime, this one worked as an actual movie. A lot more of this movie felt necessary to the plot (not all of it; there was some fluff like the scenes at the photo studio, but overall less could be cut out and still maintain the integrity of the story). And the animation quality was much improved compared to Lost Lamp.

    Lost Lamp was “Hijinks!”, but Goofy Movie felt like an actual adventure. I liked the aging up of Max and PJ from Goof Troop. Having them be high school age gave them a different set of challenges than when they were kids (social anxiety, dating/crushing on someone, parent/child relationship, etc.) which changed the formula from the show; this helped it to feel different than just another episode of Goof Troop. It set up the conflict of the movie, since Max was a lot closer to Goofy during Goof Troop.


    9. I had to go with a shot from the Powerline concert, which is the climax of the movie ad one of the times when Goofy and Max really connect and work together as father and son.

    [​IMG]

    10. Not a lot of Goofy Movie-specific pins to choose from. I also had to go with this, since it shows the road trip which was the central plot of the movie:

    [​IMG]
    Pin# 16125 - M & P - History of Art - Goofy Movie (1995)


    Random Thought

    The Goof Troop pose!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    MerlinEmrys and coblj003 like this.
  25. NutMeg

    NutMeg The Nefarious N.M.G.

    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0

    WAIT FOR ME!!! *trips while running, falls flat on face, pretends like it was on purpose* HEY YOU GUYS EVER CHECK OUT THIS FLOOR??

    [​IMG]

    1.) Overall Impression:

    [​IMG]

    I can never resist a Titus Andromedon gif, lol. Also, I wrote this whole first section in my hotel room over the weekend so I'd have an excuse to not go downstairs and talk to my extended family. I was "doing homework." Sooo yeah, my family is kind of a lot, and therefore so is this section. xD

    Let me also preface this by saying that I am part Native American (Maliseet) and do find this film quite offensive in some ways, which I will get into in a minute. However, if you happen to like it, that’s totally fine! Don’t feel bad about it. It’s ok to like things that have offensive or problematic aspects; literally every piece of entertainment is problematic in some way. And life would be pretty damn joyless if we had to automatically hate all entertainment on principle. Films can have both good AND bad elements, and we can appreciate the good stuff while still acknowledging the bad. So yeah, even though I’m going to be pretty harsh on this movie, please don’t take it personally if you’re a fan, or think that I’m calling you a racist at any point. The only accusation I might make is that you potentially have bad taste in movies. :p ;)

    This is basically the Crash of animated films. In other words, a shallow, sanctimonious "Oscar Bait" film that takes itself way too seriously and pretends like it wants to make some deep commentary on race relations, but was actually made in an obvious ploy to earn awards and prestige. Beauty and the Beast's landmark Oscar nomination - a surprise which suddenly made Katzenberg and the other Disney higher-ups realize that a Best Picture trophy was theoretically within reach - was clearly a driving force behind Pocahontas. The whole thing just reeks of desperation.

    When it comes to the ethical complaints against this movie, most of them seem to center around the phrase “historically inaccurate.” Personally, though, my problems have less to do with that. I mean, I do absolutely loathe that make-believe fairy tale ending (“Let’s all have Thanksgiving and pretend like a genocide isn’t about to start!:D”) In general, however, I don’t mind if a historically-inspired film uses artistic license. Of course, there's always room for poor judgment when it comes to this use, and I definitely think that Disney made some major missteps here, like the choice to add a romance between Pocahontas and John Smith (more on that later.) But all in all, I don't hold fictional films to the same standard as documentaries. History is fascinating, and in my opinion can absolutely serve as inspiration for artistic retellings. And I don’t think art should have to adhere strictly to fact. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have Hamilton… so I mean, boom, case closed.

    What’s more, the basic story of Pocahontas and her bravery/selflessness when saving John Smith has already been reshaped considerably by the sands of time (as all history has.) The details of this event, as well as the events surrounding it, have certainly been debated. It’s not 100% clear how much of the tale is fact and how much is fiction. But it’s understandable why the story has become a legend of sorts. It’s dramatic, inspiring, and it praises the strength of a young woman (and a woman of color, at that.) History books seldom give recognition to the accomplishments of people who aren’t white men. So the mere fact that Pocahontas' achievement is actually widely known, studied, and celebrated is significant. Her life after this achievement was honestly pretty tragic, but focusing on the specific John Smith event alone can certainly make for potentially uplifting works of fiction that don’t necessarily have to be insensitive.

    So my criticism of Pocahontas isn't really about the content of the film; rather, it has to do with the framing of the film. It’s not so much that they chose her as a subject, it’s how they framed her story. The romance with John Smith completely detracts from her heroism - as @unibear pointed out, it redirects her motivation toward a guy rather than her sense of justice. Yet again, Disney just can’t let its female protagonist have her own self-contained story operating independently from a relationship with a male love interest. It also irritates me that they structured the plot so much around the colonizers. The film comes right out of the gate not with Pocahontas and her tribe, but with the Europeans’ departure from England, which is framed as an intrepid adventure with generally altruistic goals - Ratcliffe is the sole outlier motivated by pure greed, while the others are looking for excitement and/or a better life for their families, with whom they share tearful, audience sympathy-inducing goodbyes.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    We also see them impressively overcoming a dangerous storm and risking their lives for each other. But most pointedly, we hear their opinions on the “savages.” The filmmakers could have easily introduced us to the Natives first and allowed us to identify/sympathize with them, and then shown the Europeans and their outlook on the supposed “savages;” this way, it would be instantly clear to the audience how ugly and prejudiced these views are, since we would have already seen firsthand that the Powhatans are far from primitive and have their own loving families. Instead, the “Natives=savages” perspective is the initial default, which the Natives must disprove.

    This is not at all unusual, especially for the 1990’s. Media representations of Native Americans have varied over time, but they’ve generally followed larger trends set by the current cultural climate. It’s a long and complicated history, but suffice it to say that by the 90’s, the trend had shifted well away from the “Cowboys vs Indians” imagery of early Westerns, to a much more liberal, “can’t we all just get along?” vibe. White people were starting to wake up and realize that this previously sanitized and idealized chapter of American history was actually rather dark and disgraceful, therefore calling for more sympathetic portrayals of Natives on screen.

    Still, white audiences didn’t want to feel too uncomfortable watching these depictions; therefore, reassuring “white savior” characters (like John Smith) were injected into pretty much every story. Dances With Wolves (Best Picture Oscar winner of 1990) and The Last of the Mohicans, for example, both feature a heroic white man who renounces his fellow Europeans and is adopted into a Native tribe, earning their respect and admiration. This provides a benevolent white person for viewers to identify with; “I’m not one of the ‘bad’ Europeans. I would’ve been like THAT guy if I were alive then.” (You also see this type of white character in pretty much every movie about slavery or the civil rights era - Brad Pitt in “12 Years a Slave,” Christoph Waltz in “Django Unchained,” Emma Stone in “The Help,” etc.)

    Along with the white savior, these films also had a standard framework of “let’s look at things from both sides,” which is of course the very foundation of Pocahontas. Yes, since the story is about her saving a white dude, featuring the Europeans is obviously inevitable... to an extent. But the film just takes the “both sides” thing to the absolute extreme. Why can’t movies about Natives ever just be ABOUT Natives??? Instead, they’re always about Natives in relation to white people. Fortunately, Disney has managed to evolve, and has released four movies since Pocahontas about indigenous characters - all of which actually focus on the indigenous protagonists alone. White people are peripheral, or don’t factor into things at all. There’s The Emperor’s New Groove, Lilo and Stitch, Brother Bear, and Moana. Each film (like all films) obviously has aspects that could be considered problematic, but I personally love the first two and think they’re pretty inoffensive. (I like Moana ok, I just think it’s a little too formulaic plot-wise. It's basically an attempt to "fix" Pocahontas, and while it is exponentially less problematic than the first, it still has Pocahontas' bland storyline. Brother Bear is pretty unremarkable, and definitely veers the most into offensive territory with the “magical Natives” trope.)

    Anyway, when Pocahontas came out in 1995, we were luckily at the tail end of this whole “nice white guy helps Native Americans” cinematic fad (let’s go with NWGHNA for short.) The whole thing was just pretty stale at that point. Again, the white savior trope in specific definitely still persists today, but we see much fewer NWGHNA movies overall.* Pocahontas was so mundane it kind of burned people out on them; the film offers no surprises or ingenuity, following the NWGHNA formula to the letter. (*And when we do see NWGHNA movies nowadays, the Native Americans aren’t really Native Americans, they’re aliens or something, because then the filmmakers can weasel out of any accusations of racism by saying “Hey, they’re not NATIVE, they’re NA’VI. It can’t be offensive!” Interesting that Disney now owns Pocahontas and Avatar…)

    But aside from its failures as a social commentary, I just think the film fails as a film, period. It’s lazy and cliche and uninspired. The characters lack substance, it’s thematically unoriginal and uninteresting (yet these themes are still imparted with an entirely unearned sense of self-importance), and you can see every plot point coming a mile away. Paint with all the colors of the wind? More like PAINT BY NUMBERS. (ohhhhh snap)

    (continued below...)
     

Share This Page