The Disney 52 Animated Challenge: Year-Long Activity - NOW PLAYING: Princess and the Frog

Discussion in 'DPF Game Room' started by MerlinEmrys, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. caw caw rawr

    caw caw rawr Squirrel!

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    This is the lesson I took from HoND so many years ago. I enjoy movies so much more when I treat them as their own creation and separate them from whatever story it was based on. :) Don't get me wrong, it's fun to compare sometimes and dig into the source material, but most often I like to let the movie do its thing and I sit back and enjoy the ride. That's why for this challenge, while I am doing the challenge (on my own time and my list) I'm not analyzing the films. (Thanks for letting me share a connection here or there. :) ) And I enjoy reading ALL of the insights and opinions given here, whether I agree or not. I love the discussion. Keep it up!
     
  2. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    OK, so this isn't a mythology thing, it's an astronomy thing. The moment you mentioned Phobos and Deimos, I instantly recognized those names as the two moons of Mars. I had no idea they were Pain and Panic, though! You learn something new every day!
     
  3. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    1830, from French Mythe (1818) and directly from Modern Latin mythus, from Greek mythos "speech, thought, story, myth, anything delivered by word of mouth," of unknown origin.
    From etymonlyne.com
    I guess they rather talked about it to the children and didn't write that much down?

    I try to do the same. :)

    Because those are in ancient greek and they mean something like that - fear, dread and such. :) The moons were named after these gods :)
     
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  4. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

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    Just noticed Metlin hasn't closed Hercules yet! I'm kinda late, but just finished watching it, couldn't seem to get through it without nodding off, not to say it's boring, had a hard time keeping up with it. Lesson learned don't try watching after a DSF release, takes me awhile to focus. Can't wait to read what everyone else thought of this one.
    1) Overall-I'm not up with Greek mythology so I was lost with the storyline, took a couple of rewatchings to catch up. I'm guessing as Pocahontas was to American history this is an introduction to Greek mythology, or Disney's effort to. I think the stiry is complex for a short animation, and tried to get through it with slap stick comedy and late 70s humor. It's suppose to be relateable and in some respects it does in that it's about decisions and being the odd/unusual one surviving in society. Overall it's entertaining, and now I'll definitely go check out a book on Greek mythology.
    2) The easiest is Hercules who seems a confused teenager growing up with super strength, and "find where he belongs". Story reminds me of Superman or other supethero stories with non-human parents, haha seems humans can't have extra powers without their connection. So Hercules reminds me of the movie Rocky with mythology thrown in, is my quick analysis.
    3)The scene sequence that's interesting is when Disney interprets the underworld and explains/animates the River of Death. Reminds me of a scene in Pirates of the Carribean with Johnny Depp.
    Runner up is whrn Hercules poses for an artist, and throws off a fur pelt of Scar!
    5) The symbol is the thread of life, it's a thin thread and determined by the Fates, an interesting evaluation by the Greeks, an explanation to when/how/why a person dies.
    6) The line of dialog i found interesting/amusing was when Pain and Panic transformed as 2 boys needing to be rescued, cried for someone to call XI I I :p

    This is short so I can get it in.
    Now I can read everyone' s analysis.
    TTFN my 5 are in! Yay!:stitch:
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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  5. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

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    Just a quick question regardibg timeframe in Hercules: from the time that Hercules meets Phil, it seems he's a young teenager till when they go to the city of Thebes he seems to mature and become hunkish and older. So I'm interpreting it as over years in time, but maybe I'm wrong....aaaannndd .is Meg an older woman, cause she hasn't transitioned/aged at all. She seems to be the same throughout the film.
    Just curious? :p
     
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  6. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    Possibly because she sold her soul to Hades?
    Edit: It surre helps if one thinks before writing... would help if one would think before writing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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  7. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    I do think a few years pass during "One Last Hope", but from the time Herc meets Meg at the river, I think only a few months have passed since their meeting and the end of the film. We're not really sure how old Meg is, but I think they've only known each other a few months.

    Also, speaking of time, we know that Herc is 18 at the point the Titans escape. "In 18 years precisely, the planets will align ever so nicely." and Hades says "the plan I've been working up for 18 years" is about to go up in smoke. Which makes Herc a very... Mature looking 18 year old. XD

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     
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  8. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    Ai yi yi, late as can be, didn't have access to screen caps site at work so going to try to do one real quick...
     
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  9. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

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    Ok, thanks, that helps, Herc's transformation is a body builder's goal in a few months .:p..
     
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  10. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

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    Good point.....Thanks:)
     
  11. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

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    Update for all my numerous alerts, just caught up reading everyone's posts from tail end of Hunchback, a week ago. : p
    So of course i like what I came across, everyone's point of view is making me realize a lot that I've missed or wasn't aware of, in background, history, and information bout films.
    This has been a very interesting project for me, being that I've gotten involved with something other than caring for Mom, looking at Disney pins, but most of all a connection over the perspective of others! Thank you for this! :stitch:
     
  12. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    So Close Gotta Finish...

    1. Overall Impression

    [​IMG]
    It's weird to think we are seven films into the Disney Renaissance, of which the Disney studios has decided to delve much further into the Public Domain, this time taking into account one of the great stories of Greek Mythology, Heracles uh... Hercules. What I like about this movie is the that it provides a lighter and playful tone vs the primarily Serious Drama that the past two films were trying to subject the audience to. Everything from it's Art Direction, more colorful and less realistic then the past few, its upbeat soundtrack, and its humorous script give us a movie that is a bit different and refreshing then it's predecessors.
    [​IMG]
    I can appreciate that it does pay homage to its mythological roots while still taking creative(and much more family friendly) license; One such creative stance is by delving into the realm of Western Judeo/Christian understanding such as the pearly white gates of Heaven, why Zeus looks like the image of God from the Sistine Chapel (vs his original premiere in Fantasia), the Samson-esque plot of him losing his strength because of a girl, not to mention the gospel-like music.

    2. Character Analysis
    [​IMG]
    To sum the narrator, you go girl. Much of dieties of Mount Olympus are left open to our interpretation of who the Pantheon and extras are; The Muses though are named from the beginning and given the spotlight as the supporting backbone of the film. Initially planned with the pop group the Spice Girls in mind(which may account for there only utilizing 5) they instead incorporate the Motown sound from the 50-60's from singers such as the supremes and Aretha Franklin(RIP).

    3. Scene Analysis

    [​IMG]
    This moment marks the film's pinultimate scene, though it doesn't necessarily happen in the original tale of Hercules. The scene is actually derived from the story of Orpheus, who travels to Tartarus and wins back the soul of his wife Euridice from Hades, only for him to break a stipulation by looking back before leaving the underworld, thus losing her to death again. As a nod, Hercules also turns back once, but doing so only to to punch Hades after he tries to renege on his promise. A similar scene is also featured in the PC game King's Quest 6(which ironically was released several years earlier).

    8. Progressions

    Hercules and Pegasus(and by extension Megara) share a story build of the Tall Tale, Pecos Bill. Hercules plays very much the Hero taming the wild west that is Greece. Not only does Pegasus act very much like Widowmaker, he also shares his disdain for the Heroine Megara(Who also happens to have very similar focus placed upon certain endowments as does Sue). Hercules even tames the Tornado Titan similar to how Pecos Bill does a tornado in his film.

    The Movie by extension gives homage to Fantasia's Pastoral Symphony; Here Zeus, and the cupids, and Pegasus, are transported in character design. Phil even parodies how one of the Fauns acts in the piece.

    9. Iconic Scene

    [​IMG]
    I happen to think that this scene described above is one of my favorites, this marks his transformation into a full-blooded God from a halfling mortal.

    10. Representative Pin

    No pinpics #'s as that site is currently down.
    [​IMG]
    A fantasy pin, but it is of the above iconic Scene, it also features a Glow in the Dark aspect with Meg's spirit. [​IMG]
    But if I have to choose an authentic pin, I like this UK pin is representative as him as a Hero medallion with his emblem behind him.

    Other Stray Thoughts.


    *The introduction is a stark contrast of the rest of the film featuring real life museum pieces in a much more realistic manner(if still censored).

    *The commencement of Hercules on top of Mount Olympus is similar to the commencement of Simba in the Lion King.

    *The Pegasuses in Fantasia act and glide very much like Swans on the water. This may be a slight nod to Zeus' original extramarital affair with Heracle's human mother(as a swan nonetheless) as he creates a Pegasus as his son's companion(not to mention Disney having a very marketable ploy)...
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  13. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    [​IMG]
    Mulan (1998)

    Monday/Tuesday is our "wrap-up" discussion on Hercules. So you're welcome to respond to other analyses throughout the day.

    However, you may not post any more full analyses for Hercules to count for completion toward the 52 Challenge. No late homework. ;P

    ~Merlin
     
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  14. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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  15. LittleBird

    LittleBird Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    It will be interesting to see how the discussion for this movie goes, considering many of us will be pin trading from dawn til dusk on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday!!
     
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  17. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    In the worst case I'll talk to myself :) I'll be around for sure and Mulan is a family favourite! :)
     
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  18. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. caw caw rawr

    caw caw rawr Squirrel!

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    I laughed way too hard at this. :D
     
  20. starry_solo

    starry_solo Judge of the Dark Court Staff Member DPF Super Moderator

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    It's about time it made it's way to Mulan!

    @bcol @LittleBird , anyone want to write up an analysis?
     
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  21. starry_solo

    starry_solo Judge of the Dark Court Staff Member DPF Super Moderator

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    Just to refresh my recollection as to the questions that need to be answered/analyzed. I will go watch it by the end of the week. This will also be my placeholder to answer questions @starry_solo

    1. What is your overall impression of the film? Some possible talking points include: what you did or did not like about it; what about the film has stuck with you; what did you find different on this viewing; how would modern audiences respond to this (for the older films)… The list goes on. Hahah!

    2. Choose one specific character to analyze. You can explore how a character acts, what they say, how they dress, etc. to explain what they may represent or their function and meaning in the narrative. Try to avoid obvious "plot" stuff (ex: the Evil Queen is a villain, so her purpose is to be bad...), but explore unique and specific elements about the character (ex: the EQ is surrounded by images of peacocks, further suggesting her obsession with vanity). You may also use these elements to explain why you connected or disconnected from the character.

    3. Choose one specific scene or sequence to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? Your analysis could include the scene’s use of color, action, camera angles, music, character development, setting, backdrop, style, etc. If you can justify it with evidence from the scene, then it’s an analysis!

    4. Choose one song to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? What purpose does this song have in the film and does it succeed in that purpose?

    5. Choose one specific symbol in the film to analyze. A symbol is typically something inanimate, an object, rather than a character. So don’t say “Brer Bear represents dumb people,” as that’s more of a character analysis than a symbol. Rather, think about specific objects (jewelry, clothing, houses, food, weapons, etc.) What does this symbol mean and how does that meaning impact the film?

    6. Choose a single line of dialog that you find to be the most significant/impactful line in the film and why. You can be a little loose with the “single line” bit, but let’s not go for Maleficent’s entire monologue to Philip... Rather, something like Stitch’s “This is my family. I found it all on my own. It’s little, and broken, but still good. Yeah – still good.” (brb weeping).

    7. What is this film’s overall goal? Is it to teach a specific lesson (what is it) or get an emotional response (such as)? Or both? And how well or poorly does the film succeed in that goal? Be specific!

    8. What connections or progressions do you see in this film to past films? Example: how does Sleeping Beauty progress (or digress?) the princess archetype built in Cinderella? Be specific! Also, consider what use there is in returning to or re-imagining those elements?

    9. What is the iconic shot of the film? What single frame of animation do you find to be the most memorable and why? Post it! You can check out this link to find some great screencaps to help!

    10. What single pin do you think best represents this film for you? Why? Give us the pin number and post a picture!
     
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  22. LittleBird

    LittleBird Well-Known Member

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    Do I? I think I do! :D

    1. Overall impression: This movie touches deeply on a recurring Disney theme: being true to who you are and using the unique gifts you were given to make the world better. From Snow White’s “You’re the one who can fill the world with sunshine” to Moana’s “quiet voice still inside you,” Disney reminds us to seek out our true selves, for by looking within, we find the answers we need to face life’s challenges. (“Happily Ever After” even includes the line “The story comes alive / When we look inside.”) I love the idea that we are all unique and that our authentic selves, unfiltered by expectation or pretense, are what the world needs.

    But Mulan stands out to me from among the other Disney movies with similar themes because I enjoy her unique qualities. I love that she genuinely tries to meet her society’s expectations and she genuinely fails. I love that she doesn’t really have a plan when she rides off, other than she has to do something to save her father (and her whole family… I can’t imagine that the three women would have been allowed to keep running that farm if Fa Zhou had died). She’s lost and floundering, but she keeps trying.

    I also love that her disguise lets the filmmakers push the boundaries a little bit off the usual princess track. I love that she has a moment when she sees Shang shirtless: she’s not blushing; she’s almost drooling. I love the bathing scene. I love Mushu’s “There’s a couple of things I know they’re bound to notice” and Mulan’s “I never want to see a naked man again.” (When else has a Disney character even been naked on screen? And Mulan does it twice!) I love her terrible attempts to be manly and the real connection she forges with her friends. I love that she’s allowed to be not pretty sometimes. (How much do I love her cheesy grin when Shang catches her cheating at archery? What other female character has been allowed to have an expression like that?) I love that she finally learns to believe her father when he says that the greatest gift is simply her, just as she is.

    2. Character: Shan Yu is unquestionably meant to be beast-like in physical appearance, from his stature to his fur clothes to his yellow eyes. He appears to be only semi-human, and this is reinforced by his shamanistic connection to his hawk. (I’m not necessarily a fan of these aspects of his appearance. While he looks cool and imposing, he also strays pretty far into uncomfortably racist territory.)

    What brings him out of the stereotypical brutish-villain vibe is Miguel Ferrar’s brilliant performance. His voice and his diction are worldly and sophisticated and underscore Shan Yu's intelligence. His tactics bring the empire to the verge of collapse. He is cunning (though he falls back on animalistic rage when he gets frustrated) and ruthless. In a Disney movie, it is usually the latter quality that brings down the villain: he/she loses when they don’t know when to give up (I’m thinking, for example, Gaston, Clayton, Radcliffe here). For Shan Yu, it isn’t really his ruthlessness that gets him killed; he’s simply outsmarted by Mulan, who is more cunning than he is.

    Another thing I find fascinating about him is how he is one of the only characters not thrown by Mulan’s gender. When she reveals herself to him to protect Shang, he doesn’t say, “You’re a woman!” or something similar; he says, “The soldier from the mountains.” When they’re fighting on the roof, he doesn’t belittle her fighting as a woman; he says, “It looks like you’re out of ideas.” He sees her, if not as an equal, than at least as someone who has been fighting him on his terms, i.e., through clever, unexpected tactics instead of the traditional warfare of the Chinese army (for which he seems to hold little respect).

    His death is also unusual for a Disney film: dude is straight-up killed by our hero and her sidekick. I always find it a little weird that the crowd is cheering as the fireworks go off: I can only imagine little chunks of Hun raining down on everyone.

    4. Song: I’m going to stretch the bounds of the question here and talk about a recurring theme in the music. It starts with “Honor to Us All,” which lists all the qualities that are admirable in a bride. Throughout the song, we are introduced to the dichotomy as being “man” vs. “girl (as opposed to “boy” vs. “girl” or “man vs. “woman”). We are told that “men want girls with good taste...” and that, though everyone must serve the emperor, a man does so “by bearing arms” and a girl does so “by bearing sons.”

    This dichotomy is continued in both “I’ll Make a Man Out of You,” which lists all the qualities a man should have, and “A Girl Worth Fighting For,” which is another list of what makes a woman attractive to a man. Over and over, we are told what Mulan should be as either a girl or a man. She never meets the criteria laid out for an "acceptable" girl, and while she may be swift as a coursing river, etc., she’s still not a man. She’s no closer to fitting in than she was when she sang “Reflection.”

    Ironically, one character who calls Mulan a “woman” is Chi Fu. He does so twice, and both times it’s intended to be derogatory. The emperor also refers to Mulan as a woman ("See that this woman is made a member of my council"), and here the word seems to connote respect for her maturity rather than Chi Fu's intention that "woman" is synonymous with treachery. The emphasis on “girl” may be due to Mulan’s age (or maybe “girl” is just easier to rhyme than “woman” :)), but I think it has more to do with how the other characters view an ideal woman as one who is chaste and pure (i.e., “the perfect porcelain dolls” from “Honor to Us All”).

    Unfortunately, after hearing three different songs about what Mulan isn’t, we never get a musical resolution to the question of what Mulan is… until the sequel, when Mulan finally gets to list what she thinks makes a good hero (“Lesson Number One”).

    6. Dialogue: (Not really an analysis of an impactful line, more just an aside.) I love the emperor, and I love all his wise aphorisms, but I always laugh when he says, “No matter how the wind howls, the mountain cannot bow to it.” Not because the sentiment is laughable in itself, but because he says it to a guy that just got buried in an avalanche. :D The wind may not make a mountain bow, but a cannon sure can. (I know it was technically the snow and not the mountain that fell on them. But still.)

    9. Iconic shot: Although there are other shots that are often used to represent this movie (the hair-cutting scene, the half-makeup/half-without shot, when the crowd bows to her at the end), this is the iconic shot in the movie for me:

    [​IMG]

    This is the moment that Mulan stops doing things other people’s way and starts doing them her own and succeeds, i.e., the moment when her so-called weaknesses become strengths. I’d like to think that her solution is one Shang had in mind when he set this obstacle up since he’s a pretty clever guy, but then again, he also has a more traditional way of thinking (e.g., his only plan during the ambush is to shoot a cannon at Shan Yu and die with honor). Regardless of what Shang intended, Mulan’s solution is clearly one that none of the other soldiers thought of. This is Mulan’s strength: not only is she clever, she’s clever in a way that’s outside the norm for both men and women. Mulan’s thinking transcends the boundaries that have been placed on both genders in this society (i.e., men must succeed with strength and traditional training; women must be demure and not think outside of their sphere).

    10. I love this pin:

    [​IMG]

    For a pin to represent this movie, I think it has to show the three versions of Mulan: the traditional bride she was supposed to be, the soldier she became in disguise, and the hero that she is, which transcends either of the other versions. I love her in her final outfit because it shows her acceptance of her actual self, which is more than the sum of the other parts we’ve seen her play. She is not a girl; she is not a man. She is Mulan.

    I could say a million more things about this movie, but I is tired. :) Is my excessive use of "i.e." enough of a tip-off that I spend all my days reading academic texts?
     
  23. NutMeg

    NutMeg The Nefarious N.M.G.

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    <3 <3 <3
    Aw. Thank you guys. It was definitely a much needed confidence boost to log on tonight and see these mentions. I did indeed write a super long Meg analysis earlier last week (because of course I did lol), but ultimately just didn't feel comfortable sharing it after Hunchback. As for the question of permanently leaving the game, idk, I guess it just depends how much time it takes for me to stop being such an overly sensitive crybaby lol. Hunchback was pretty emotionally draining for me, especially since it's my favorite movie and I've been saying all year how very much I was looking forward to being its champion... and by the end of it all I just wish I hadn't bothered. /:

    I totally agree with what everyone has been saying (and what I did in fact state several times in my Hunchback posts if you look back), that differing POVs are awesome because they lead to lively discussions instead of echo chambers. But in this case, it felt like *my* POV in specific was zeroed in on and called into question, and scrutinized and picked apart to a level that no one else has been subjected to thus far. So I feel weirdly conspicuous and under the microscope in this thread now that my analytical methods, filmmaking style, and even the validity of my emotions have been so thoroughly dissected and challenged, and even discredited in some peoples' esteem. Of course I know that no one on here had malicious or cruel intent - I truly love this community, despite the occasional squabbles, which are inevitable in any family - but this thread just got way too real for me. :(

    I'm pretty much already bombarded with attempts to discredit, dismiss, or patronize me in the classroom and on set, so the basic underlying tone of people vehemently trying to disprove or diminish everything I say just hit a nerve. I'm constantly surrounded by dude bros who all think they're the next Tarantino and I'm just the token girl who knows nothing about film/art, and hey I know you're in charge of the sound on this project but why don't you go grab us some coffee or sew that button back on the actor (true freaking story)... Obviously no one in this thread is coming from that dude bro mindset haha, and most of you don't even know that film is my field of study/career/passion/lifelong dream lol. Or idk, maybe I come across here as a pretentious film school snob who needs to be taken down a peg... I really hope I haven't perpetuated that stereotype; I always try to be self-deprecating, respectful, complimentary, and I only get into that "~what you're taught in film school~" jargon about camera angles and such because I thought these analyses, via the questions posed, were supposed to be approached from a somewhat academic, film studies lens? If I made anyone feel like their opinion is less worthy, I'm truly sorry. This is honestly just the only perspective I have to offer because it's where I'm coming from personally. But I guess if some people have gotten that impression from me it's at least partly a failure on my behalf (however inadvertently.)

    So yeah, I certainly don't want to encourage drama or conflict - that's why I've been avoiding commenting anymore haha - but I figured I should explain that this is my own personal deal, due to personal issues and personal hurt. I guess I'm not entirely the "Big Tough Girl" my status claimed haha (hmm, that might have made another good angle for my Meg analysis lol. Oh well, maybe I'll post it somewhere else later.) I swear I'm not dropping out to be passive aggressive or a drama queen or anything haha, I just feel a little dejected. And therefore probably wouldn't even contribute anything of interest anyway haha. I would hate to be a Debbie Downer or make anyone feel uncomfortable because of "drama." Especially because it's truly such a fun game and Merlin has worked sooo hard on it/curated it with such warmth and joy! So I don't want to taint this awesome thread with my own personal hang-ups. I'm only trying to explain why I need to disengage, for a while at least. And you guys will obviously do just fine without me! :D (If anyone feels the need to continue a dialogue about this for some reason, I would suggest doing so privately from now on to keep Merlin's thread on topic. My goal with this explanation is certainly not to further any conflict, just to answer the questions posed to me and try to clear the air.)

    That said, I'm totally down for chatting about films in private/swapping analyses via PM or anything like that. :)

    I'll probably still lurk from time to time haha. Herc is my second favorite movie and I def look forward to reading the analyses when I have the emotional strength! Hopefully SOMEONE covered how awesomely complex and subversive Meg is. :p AND that someone mentioned what a freakin' perv Phil is....... O.O
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  24. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    Thank you for posting this, I think I understand the whole a little better and now I feelyou did the right thing. I would still love to read your analysis, Maybe you could send them as private messages if you'd like to? (I've always have a symphatic ear and the Loch Ness Monster loves when fed lots of analysis - good diet, doesn't make fat and all)
    I always liked to see the professionals point of view on movies, I rarely notice camera angles and stuff like that although I know how very important that is.

    Seems like you have a hard time breaking steretypes and I'm truly sorry (come to think of it, this weeks movie has something like that in it)

    Just return when you feel comfortable and you can be sure a great warm welcome will be waiting for you! :)
     
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  25. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    I don't think you could have projected a more unlikable, hypothetical dude bro. Tarantino? Speaking of pretentious...

    [​IMG]

    Anywho, I look forward to your return whenever you'd like. Perhaps for "Home on the Range" ;P But seriously, you and your awesome ideas are always welcome here. :)

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     
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