The Disney 52 Animated Challenge: Year-Long Activity - NOW PLAYING: Princess and the Frog

Discussion in 'DPF Game Room' started by MerlinEmrys, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    At work all weekend so I'll post in the morning when I get to a computer.
     
  2. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    Okay this is the quickest one I've done before and I haven't answered all the questions yet But I intend to add them all (and I have answered at least five)
    Edit: Now Ive done hem all but I think this one is the worst I've done so far :( Hope to do better next week.

    1. What is your overall impression of the film? Some possible talking points include: what you did or did not like about it; what about the film has stuck with you; what did you find different on this viewing; how would modern audiences respond to this (for the older films)… The list goes on. Hahah!
    I’ve seen this movie quite a few times and enjoyed it very much. There is usually a lot I don’t like in sequels but this is one I really like. The Lion King is one of my absolute favourites and getting more information and a deeper insight made me very happy. :) Also, most of the main cast returned to lend their voice to the characters once more which I really liked (it was very irritating in the added scene in The Lion King, although I knew it couldn’t be helped. I’m really picky about this)

    2. Choose one specific character to analyze. You can explore how a character acts, what they say, how they dress, etc. to explain what they may represent or their function and meaning in the narrative. Try to avoid obvious "plot" stuff (ex: the Evil Queen is a villain, so her purpose is to be bad...), but explore unique and specific elements about the character (ex: the EQ is surrounded by images of peacocks, further suggesting her obsession with vanity). You may also use these elements to explain why you connected or disconnected from the character.
    I think Pumbaa is the best friend Timon could wish for. He has all the good qualities of a good friend and is a good influence for Timon and brings out the best in him.

    3. Choose one specific scene or sequence to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? Your analysis could include the scene’s use of color, action, camera angles, music, character development, setting, backdrop, style, etc. If you can justify it with evidence from the scene, then it’s an analysis!
    When Timon gets his new job to watch out for hyenas it is obvious that he is paying less and less attention to his sourrandings because the shots we get feom his point of view get shorter and shorter.

    4. Choose one song to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? What purpose does this song have in the film and does it succeed in that purpose?
    Timons first song is about his troubles and wishes, that he wants more from life and hates to be scared all the time and hide in the dark. Since this is a sequel, the watchers most likely already know his character quite well but tehe song doesn’t only show that, it also shows why he starts his journey in the first place.

    5. Choose one specific symbol in the film to analyze. A symbol is typically something inanimate, an object, rather than a character. So don’t say “Brer Bear represents dumb people,” as that’s more of a character analysis than a symbol. Rather, think about specific objects (jewelry, clothing, houses, food, weapons, etc.) What does this symbol mean and how does that meaning impact the film?
    I thought long about what to choose. I ended up with their sleeping place as a symbol of friendship - they had separate ones at the beginning (whe it was only Timon and Pumbaa and they were just starting to get to know each other) but ended up with sharing one, the three of them. A sleeping place is comfort, like a friend.

    6. Choose a single line of dialog that you find to be the most significant/impactful line in the film and why. You can be a little loose with the “single line” bit, but let’s not go for Maleficent’s entire monologue to Philip... Rather, something like Stitch’s “This is my family. I found it all on my own. It’s little, and broken, but still good. Yeah – still good.” (brb weeping).
    Obvious choice:
    Friends stick together to the end.
    Because for me, this movie is allabout friendship and its ups and downs :) And Timon says it, declaring that Pumba is not his ally but his FRIEND.

    7. What is this film’s overall goal? Is it to teach a specific lesson (what is it) or get an emotional response (such as)? Or both? And how well or poorly does the film succeed in that goal? Be specific!
    I think it mostly teaches about friendship and all its aspects – accepting the flaws of the others, stick together, help each other grow and help each other in times of need.

    8. What connections or progressions do you see in this film to past films? Example: how does Sleeping Beauty progress (or digress?) the princess archetype built in Cinderella? Be specific! Also, consider what use there is in returning to or re-imagining those elements?
    It is of course strongly connected to The Lion King itself but is unique in the way it shows all the events of another movie from another perspective and the sidekciks become main characters.
    Also Timon and Pumba eating that wormlike thing reminded me of the spaghetti eating from Lady and the Tramp.

    9. What is the iconic shot of the film? What single frame of animation do you find to be the most memorable and why? Post it! You can check out this link to find some great screencaps to help!
    First meeting is quite iconic in’t it? First impressions are important :)
    [​IMG]

    10. What single pin do you think best represents this film for you? Why? Give us the pin number and post a picture!
    Friendship :) Also, it connects the two movies.

    Pin 15476 Magical Musical Moments - Hakuna Matata
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
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  3. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    Kenai sees bears as just a nuisance (like when they get into the baskets of fish), and brainless creatures that are just out to eat and destroy. That's why he's unhappy that they are his totem. He doesn't see them as loving creatures until he turns into one and learns the sacrifice that Koda's mother gave to protect Koda.
     
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  4. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    Oh. Now I feel silly. Keani states that at the beginning. Anyway, thanks for the explanation! :)
     
  5. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    I was at a 24-hour Relay for Life event on Saturday morning through Sunday morning, then when I got home I slept for literally 15 hours until this morning, so I wasn't able to post my review yesterday as planned. I promise I'll finish filling out my posts tonight!
     
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  6. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Brother Bear

    1. Overall Impression
    I enjoy this movie a lot, for the most part. There are elements (the songs…) that are quite off putting, and I think that most of the writing is a tad obvious. The film gets heavy handed with its message, to the point of me groaning “yes, we get it!”, but that doesn’t mean it’s devoid of heart. The animation is astounding and the backgrounds are amazing. I love the subtle shift of color once Kenai becomes a bear. And other small, subtle bits that this movie does is really great. But I just wish they had enough faith in their audience—or had writers/directors willing to take a chance—and not reach for the easiest low-hanging fruit when it comes to overall mood. Treasure Planet had a similar problem. Let the film work on multiple levels—which you can’t do if you come right out and say “The moral of the story is…”

    But, overall, I still enjoyed it. Which could be saying something since, when I think about the film, I don’t really like it. But I do enjoy it. Man…that makes no sense. XD

    2. Character Analysis
    With the exception of the shaman, all the humans are pretty flat from the get-go, basically stand-ins for their totem or obviously unlikable until they embrace their totem. This concept bleeds over into how the characters interact with each other. And while the animals aren’t exempt from this (we get the typical “let’s become best friends” montage with Kenai and Koda), few depictions of relationships were as annoying as the three brothers. Every time they came into physical contact with each other, they gave each other a noogy—I counted four within the first 10 minutes. There are other ways to show brotherly interactions. But giving your brother a noogy is the most stereotypical thing I can think of, which is on par with most of the comedy in this movie. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad, it’s just “easy” and predictable, ya know?

    3. Scene Analysis
    Similar to the brother humor, Kenai and Co’s reaction to his totem was also off-putting. There was just this vibe of “love CANNOT equal manliness” or “love automatically equals weakness or effeminacy.” The scene where Denahi prances and showers Kenai with flowers is, yes, brotherly jabbing, but just sort of drips with that concept that really rankles me, personally. GRANTED!! The entire point of the movie is to prove Kenai wrong and that love DOES make him a “man.” So perhaps it’s a strength of the film that I was soooo bothered by their interpretation of love that it actually provided some room for redemption by the end of the film. It just struck a personal cord for me—I was taken back to high school, and not in a good way XD

    4. Song Analysis / 8. Connections
    Oh man. I absolutely did not remember Phil Collins doing the music for this movie. And the first song was fine, mostly because Philly didn’t sing it. XD But one song that was just….wugh, was “No Way Out”. This song comes at a traumatic moment for the film. Kenai just realized he has majorly messed up, and now he has to confess this to Koda, who for the first time has to confront something really dark. And then, out of nowhere, our confession is muted in favor of a non-character voice singing, presumably, Kenai’s internal feelings. But take a look at how paltry these lyrics are:

    Everywhere I turn, I hurt someone
    But there's nothing I can say
    to change the things I've done
    I'd do anything within my power
    I'd give everything I've got
    But the path I seek is hidden
    from me now

    Russ even commented, “Is he just singing a list of feelings? Like, he’s singing the obvious, right?” Which is precisely the problem. This song (and most of the others) are just so obvious in their lyrics that they add nothing to the situation beyond simply reiterating what is already blatantly there. And the fact that it’s a third-person voice telling us this breaks any kind of internal significance. But worst of all, this song interrupts what could have been a really powerful moment! We get just a touch of it… When Koda says, “I don’t like this story,” maaaaan that’s so good. But then here comes Philly, “This song is sad because the character is sad and feels bad. I’m telling you he feels bad. So bad.” It even shoehorns the film’s title in there. Just…come on. There were some songs in Tarzan that were pretty bald, but this one takes the cake.

    6. Dialog Analysis
    There are some obvious “Here’s the moral” quotes in the film that are pretty good, but one that gave us some good layers was Koda saying to the northern lights, “Thanks Sitka.” Koda doesn’t know all the details, but we do (and we don’t need a narrator to tell us!), so this line takes on a lot of weight and, if you really dig at it, could be the pivot point of Kenai. Interesting how, in a film where most of the writing is on the nose, two little words actually pack to biggest punch.

    9. Iconic Shot
    I can’t get quiiiiite the right frame I want, so this little one will have to do:

    [​IMG]
    I love the fluidity of animation with the eagle and other spirits, how they look like water an flow around the characters. And the Sitka Eagle is the best exhibit of that! When we get Kenai’s transformation, it doesn’t feel like Beast breaking through the curse or something, but that something is really changing or flowing or something. I don’t know. I just really like it. XD

    You can see that fluidity better here:
    [​IMG]

    10. Representative Pin
    Not a lot to choose from, but this one is a good option:

    [​IMG]
    Pin 26304 DLR - Brother Bear Opening Day

    We’ve got the fun-loving Koda, the bonding over the salmon, and the great icon of the paw and hand print.
     
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  7. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Lion King 1 ½

    1. Overall Impression
    I. Love. This. Movie. So. Much. Bahahah! It’s absolute crack and totally off the rails, but man does it bring me so much joy. I haven’t laughed so hard at a movie in a long time. :D And that all this movie wants, is a good laugh. Sure some of the jokes are cheap and the meta movie bit gets old or too intrusive at times, but there are some golden gags in here that are just timeless. XD I would probably watch this movie again with the next week if offered. I adore it. Hahah!

    3. Scene Analysis
    The entire scene where Timon first meets Rafiki is probably one of my favorite comedy film scenes period. Not only do we get the glorious exchange, “You didn’t happen to catch my song and dance number a few minutes ago, did you?” “I did not have the pleasure.” (bahahah!), we also have the enduring metaphor of “Look beyond what I see…” which drives the film. Plus, the delightful meta gag, “It’s kinda hard to think with all this music!” Absolutely golden. The whole scene. XD It struck an excellent balance between working with the plot of the film and being just meta enough to be funny and not distracting. Probably one of the best spots for that kind of balance as well.

    4. Song Analysis
    Not so much an actual analysis of the song (“Dig a Tunnel” is too amazing to analyze XD), but the very clever choice to end “Love Tonight” by playing the original track but animating it from the reverse side:

    [​IMG]

    I was very tempted to save this for my iconic shot, because I think it’s the best depiction of what this film is trying to do: flip the camera. The bulk of the plot rather tongue-and-cheeks its way through the original film (like why the animals all started kneeling), but this was a great moment of purpose. The film wants to show you the story from a different perspective, and so in one of the more iconic moments for the duo, they deliver the exact same lines but from a literal different perspective. I found it very clever.

    6. Dialog Analysis
    What I like most about this film (beyond even the “Sunrise, Sunset” goof) is that it actually acknowledges that Timon and Pumbaa basically adopted Simba. Timon goes as far as to ominously announce their greatest challenge: “Parenting…”. And teenage Simba actually calls Timon “Pops,” which I simply adore. The film waffles back and forth between them all being “best friends” and the pair considering Simba “our boy,” and I guess that’s fine. But those little spots where it snuck through, I was really happy for. :)

    9. Iconic Shot
    Since I don’t want to re-use the above image for this, I’ll go with this shot:

    [​IMG]
    An infinitely quotable line, “Au contraire, my porcine pal. I’ve got the remote!”

    In a film that embraces the meta goofing on watching an animated movie as the animated character in the film, nothing sums that up better than Timon wielding the power of the remote.

    Plus, who doesn’t love the Mystery Science Theater vibe here?? Amazing. xD

    10. Representative Pin
    Again, not a whole lot to choose from, so we will go with the obvious:

    [​IMG]
    Pin 27661 WDW - Annual Passholder 'The Lion King 1½' Pin

    But if I wanted to be meta, I’d go with this, since it has the “film” aspect along with it:

    [​IMG]
    Pin 100802 WDW - Imagination Gala - Framed Set - Have a Laugh - Timon and Pumbaa ONLY



    *Stray Thoughts
    --I quote this movie so much and I didn’t even realize it.
    --I died at the sheer amount of Broadway goofs in here. "We've moved to the theater district!" "Oi, Show people..." XD Nathan Lane, you're amazing.
    --It is a crime that there aren’t more gifs from this movie……
     
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  8. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    Shorter than I would have liked, but need to get some sleep and each has at least five answers.

    Can I say how much I appreciate that y'all seem to like Lion King 1 1/2 along with me? My inner Timon is doing thiiiiiiiiiiis:

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    I think this is the first time Disney has hinted about same-sex parents in one of their movies (other than "Lion King"), and I found parts of it charming. @MerlinEmrys I was wondering if you had a problem with Uncle Max's dress comment as depicting internalized homophobia/transphobia? (Can it be considered 'internalized' if he expresses it externally??).
     
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  10. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    I had the draft saved and of course it didn't save all the way... I'll post what I have and update when I get home.

    1. Overall Impression
    [​IMG]
    This is another film that I haven't seen in full before this showing; I was well too old to see a traditional Disney(not Pixar) cartoon in theatre's/DVD before the studio rebranded itself later on. It was okay though I would would give it a 3.5/5 stars, a few things made me not give it a higher marking. This is the third and final feature film produced by the Florida Studio, as Disney decided to shutter it to focus more on 3D animation. While it is an original story, it does seem take a lot of progressive elements from previous films as well as some Easter eggs, amongst them the fact that unshaven Denahi seems to be resemble Shan Yu from Mulan and that one of the Inuit girls resembles Lilo from Lilo and Stitch.
    [​IMG]
    Setting wise, Disney has seemed to want to branch out toward diverse societies/exotic backdrops; I am not not judging Disney as culturally appropriating but it seems they went lite on actual explanations and went for using similar mysticism found in Pocahontas; Add the fact you have the film take place thousands of years just to include Paleolithic Cave Drawings, Mammoth's, and Sabertooth Tigers and it seems it is trying to compete with another popular animated film series...

    The art Direction has become the standard, parts of it remind me of The lion King and Beauty of the beast. The music is okay, but I would agree with Unibear that certain sung portions(especially the one of Kenai telling Koda of his mom) did take away from the scene.

    3&8. Scene Analysis, Progressive scenes
    [​IMG]
    As impactful as we find our when Kenai explains to Koda his mother is not coming back, it gives a nod to Bambi whearas we have a lite snow coming down in the background symbolizing the emotional detachment/death. The scene also seems to be a nod to the Lion King, as it looks very much like to the Simba/Mufasa scene of telling his son about his kingdom in that it is supposed to be solemn soliloquy. That said, unlike both of those scenes, the song " no way out"playing in the background takes away any emotional grounding that is supposed to be invoked.
    [​IMG]
    As a nod to both Fantasias, Sitka's funeral seems to mimic the Ave Maria lighting Procession from the original Fantasia, while the Aurora Borealis seems to invoke the Pines of Rome sequence from Fantasia 2000.
    [​IMG]
    This is the 3rd feature movie I can think of in which a Disney character is elevated like Beast/Prince in a transformation sequence

    9. Iconic Scene
    [​IMG]
    Much of the natural scenes seem to standout in this movie, as for actual plot wise scenes I like how Koda teaches Kenai how to adapt as a bear.

    10. Representative pin:
    [​IMG]
    Pin 26304 DLR - Brother Bear Opening Day.
    There isn't much in terms of more recent pins but this pin plays with my iconic Scene above.


    1. Overall Impression
    [​IMG]
    All things considered, When the Lion King 1.5 came out I thought it was a cash grab(most Disney sequels are) so this was a sequel I didn't pay too much attention to see. That said I was pleasantly surprised at how okay this was(I give it a pleasant 3.5 out of 5 stars overall), yes it follows the same story plots but it's more comedic/parody of it that had me chuckling most of the way. To be honest, it was weird of them to go the route of Mystery Science Theatre but the home movie banter is partly what had me laughing. There is still a significant amount of footage recycled so you could tell it was more on the money saving budget akin to ENG. The music soundtrack Aeemd to go for different tone as it seems either inspired(dig a tunnel e.g. By circle of life) pop culture(peter gun theme, lion sleeps tonight) with only a feet taken directly from the 1st(Hakuna Matata).


    2. Character Analysis
    [​IMG]
    Ma(does she have a name?) sounded so familiar that I had to look her up immediately for reference(Julie Kavnar) and was of course familiar as she is the voice of tv's longest recurring mom Marge Simpson. In many ways, her character nuances are similar to that character though they tried to place emphasis the meerkats themselves as having exclusively Jewish traits (mushugga, and the fiddler on a he roof theme). I think my favorite scene with her is with Rafiki and how she doesn't care for the wild goose chase that he sent Timon on. All said and done, I am surprised that there aren't any pins with her on it(especially for Mother's Day).

    6.&9. Quote/Iconic Scene
    [​IMG]
    As this movie is primarily of Timon and Pumba watching a home movie, I included this scene of them looking back on their friendship after reuniting in the desert. This also goes well with Timon's quote "friends stick together until the end."

    10. Representative Pin.
    [​IMG]
    Pin 27661 WDW - Annual Passholder 'The Lion King 1½' Pin

    There's actually not a lot of pins for this movie but this happens to have the logo, I did find some no on DVD buttons at a resale of Brother Bear and Lion King 1.5 so I may check that out if they still have them

    Stray Thoughts

    One thought is how the jungle itself is so close to pride rock, they do reuse this tidbit in the lion guard as they constantly show Bungaa(timon and Pumbaa's foster kid) at home there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  11. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    It didn't so much bother me as it just made me roll my eyes, hahah! To Uncle Max, Timon can't do anything right at all. So I think he would have called Timon out for literally anything, here it just happened to be a dress, which, ya know, he's allowed to he shocked at I suppose. I think it was a natural reaction for the character. The design for Max was very old-school masculine; he's got kind of a military buzz cut and does the whole "boot camp" instructor thing when Timon is on sentry duty. So that kind of response I think is in his wheelhouse.

    But even more so, I think the comment sets up a nice resolution for Max, since we see him become a Yoga instructor, which is about as opposite of a drill sergeant as I can imagine. XD

    One certainly could read the response as homophobic, and that argument wouldn't be baseless. I just prefer to see it as evidence of Max's neurotic personality--whatever isn't normal is scary or weird, which, you know, people are allowed to have that reaction when they first encounter something non-normative or weird. But once he gets to his new home, he kind of let's that go and "zens", hahah! Which is a positive progression, I think. :)

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     
  12. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Home on the Range (2004) and BONUS: Bambi II (2006)

    Monday/Tuesday is our "wrap-up" discussion on Brother Bear and Lion King 1 1/2. So you're welcome to respond to other analyses throughout the day.

    However, you may not post any more full analyses for Brother Bear and Lion King 1 1/2 to count for completion toward the 52 Challenge. No late homework. ;P

    ~Merlin
     
  13. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    (I know some of you are going back to add to your posts, which is totally fine! I just wanted to go ahead and get the week rolling while I had a moment to do the images <3)
     
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  14. caw caw rawr

    caw caw rawr Squirrel!

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    I just wanted to jump in to say that I still love Brother Bear. :D

    [​IMG]


    And a teeeeeeny my-two-cents comment: the song over Kenai telling Koda about his mother's death may take away from the emotional impact for some, but I am grateful for it as Koda's reaction is just devastating on its own. I don't think I could take it if they didn't do something to ease the weight of it. The song works for me because it adds a second layer to this moment, that Kenai is hurting too. We see Koda's pain but we hear Kenai's. Instead of my heart breaking just for Koda, it breaks for both and you feel for the 'monster' too. It's impactful and works for me.


    ...and I like Phil Collins.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  15. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    That is a totally fair point. :3

    (except for Phil Collins ;P <3)

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     
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  16. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    You know it's very fitting to analyze Bambi 2 this week, Google is promoting Tyrus Wong's 108th birthday today. :)

     
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  17. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    Okay was going to watch home on the range today but it looks like it's been scrubbed from Netflix, I guess a trip to the library is order...
     
  18. pretty Omi

    pretty Omi Resident Smol Wolf

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    Bambi 2 (really more of a 1 1/2 haha) is one of my absolute favorite sequels. It was originally not going to have a number, and be titled "Bambi and the Great Prince" which I feel is a much more accurate title.
    It's one of a few "sequels" that actually makes sense! There's a lot of time that passes between Bambi's mom getting shot, and when we see him as a grown buck. This movie has a lot of heart, the voice casting is spot on (Patrick Stewart is a PERFECT Great Prince), and even if he's a little jerk, I adore Ronno.

    So back when Disney bought out Pixar and brought John Lasseter to the Disney Animation team, he cancelled all of the future sequels that were slotted but hadn't been put into production yet beyond planning (stuff like a Dumbo 2, among others), and he basically took all the budgets that had been spread across all those films and put them into the three that were still in major production, those 3 being Fox and the Hound 2, Cinderella 3 (omg watch this one), and Bambi 2. As a result these 3 films have much better story lines (mostly, FatH 2 is still a little ehhh), but they have significantly better artwork! Bambi 2 they really put a lot of care into making it as close to the feel of the original film as they could, the soft watercolor backgrounds and such. I really enjoy this film and hope you guys do too!
     
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  19. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    I watch it right after we watched Bambi back at the beginning of the year. And I concur, it's probably one of the best sequels. :) I got choked up a lot! It's so good, so I'm looking forward to diving into it for the challenge. :3

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     
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  20. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    Welcome to “Home on the Range”, the only situation where it’s socially acceptable to call Roseanne a big fat cow…


    1. (and 8.) My overall impression of the movie… Several things:

    OK, I just have to say that this movie doesn’t really have the Disney magic of recent movies like “Lilo & Stitch” or “Emperor’s New Groove”. The animation and style feels a bit more like the old Tex Avery Bug Bunny/Wolf/Droopy cartoons of the 1940s. These cartoons were a lot less warm and cuddly and were more irreverent and fast-paced. I don’t mind the style, but it definitely feels “un-Disney like”.

    In general, it feels like we’re in another Disney Dark Ages with the last few movies. With the exception of “Lilo & Stitch” and “Emperor’s New Groove” (and some would argue about that last one), most of the recent Disney movies have been uninspired, lack-luster, and not all that good (“Tarzan”, “Fantasia 2000”, “Dinosaur”, “Atlantis”, “Treasure Planet”, “Brother Bear”, and now “Home on the Range”). And I have to admit that I’m NOT looking forward to “Chicken Little”! These movies are every bit as bad as the movies right before “Little Mermaid” (“Rescuers”, “Pete’s Dragon”, “Fox and the Hound”, “Black Cauldron”, “Great Mouse Detective”), which have rightfully earned this timeframe the title of Disney Dark Ages.

    OK, voice issues again. It’s very interesting (and a bit disconcerting) to have Roseanne, Dame Judy Dench, and Jennifer Tilly together. It’s an interesting combination and definitely has a dichotomy of the upper elite (Dench) and the epitome of the working class (Roseanne). The combination of the three kind of remind me of the odd combination of Bette Midler, Kathy Najimy, and Sarah Jessica Parker in “Hocus Pocus”, where I think it works quite well! I’m not sure how I feel about how they work together on “Home on the Range”—it’s okay but not stellar.

    The humor in this movie is really juvenile and low-brow, and not all that funny. I don’t know if that’s Roseanne’s influence as a writer or if the other writers “classed it down” to match Roseanne’s persona. I mean, when Maggie turns her back to the camera, exposing her udders and then actually says: “Yeah, they’re real. Quit staring.” HANDS DOWN, the WORST line EVER in a Disney movie! Yikes!! Other issues: Maggie putting an apple in a baby pig’s mouth and saying, “Don’t go near any luaus, kid.” Or Maggie teaching the baby pigs to belch and then the pigs and Maggie belching excessively (very “Beavis and Butthead”). Or Maggie saying of Mrs. Calloway, “What’s her specialty, sour cream?”. Or Maggie saying to Mrs. Calloway, “What is in the cud you’ve been chewing?”, etc. etc. etc.

    Why did they give the three cows excessively (comically bad) protruding hipbones? I know cows do have large hipbones, but they just look really odd (and painful).

    [​IMG]

    When Buck the horse runs around in circles in the desert to get the three cows off his trail, why does he leave COW footprints instead of horseshoe prints? He left horseshoe prints when he was playing tic-tac-toe with the dog…


    2. I can’t say that I find any of these characters to be all that compelling, but I guess I’ll analyze Lucky Jack, the peg-legged rabbit. The movie credits start out with a scene where some random rabbit is being abused by Nature—a rabid coyote, a wagon wheel, a traveling herd of cows (of course I’ve heard of cows… Sorry for the bad joke, but it just seems to fit into the uninspired humor of this movie), baby owls, and a rattlesnake. It seems to be the tired trope of an unlucky creature being abused by life in general. To quote Maggie: “Well, no matter how bad things get, there’s probably somebody worse off… That guy, for instance.”

    We don’t find out until later that this rabbit is a main character in the movie. Grace calls him a shaman (the DVD scene selection calls him a “Desert Sage”, probably an attempted pun using the word ‘sage’ and relating it to ‘sagebrush’??), but he introduces himself as Lucky Jack, a jack-rabbit of all trades (another pun). He tells us that everyone used to come from miles around just to get a rub of his lucky foot, as he lifts his peg-leg that he accidentally set on fire. I kept waiting for the movie to finish the story—how he lost his lucky foot and, presumably, how that resulted in him losing all of his luck… But the story never followed this logical line with an explanation. I am left to wonder why the writers introduced and hinted at this idea but never followed through with a bit of character development.

    What we get throughout the movie is a character who seems to be cursed with bad luck on a personal level, but who can be lucky for other characters (saving the three cows with food, helping to catch Alameda Slim… twice, tripping the track switch to save the train, etc.). Again, this is a well-used trope of the unlucky characters who manages to save the heroes. Interestingly, Lucky Jack never seems to be resentful or angry about his bad luck; he just says, “This happens all the time.” I did find it a bit ironic that Lucky Jack gets clocked by a horseshoe to the head, which is normally a symbol of good luck not bad.


    3. I decided to analyze the villain song (not sure of the title) that has Alameda Slim telling his dastardly tale. It starts out very dark and ominous, as all villain songs should, but then he starts yodeling and the somber evening colors of dark blues and blacks become psychedelic pastel colors, complete with mesmerized cows with swirly eyes and zombie-like motions. It also steals common classical music songs (another ode to Tex Avery and Bugs Bunny?) like Rossini’s “William Tell Overture” and “Ode to Joy” from Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony. So, a song that started out very serious and scary/ominous instantly becomes silly and fun and irreverent. I have to say I thought it was one of the funniest scenes in the movie, and it hit my funny bone pretty hard.

    [​IMG]

    4. (and 8.) The song I chose to analyze was “Will the Sun Ever Shine Again?”, sung by Bonnie Raitt. Just like “Tarzan” and “Brother Bear”, the songs in this movie were not sung by characters, but by famous singers/pop stars (country stars, in this case). I’m not a big country fan at all, but interestingly enough, the famous stars singing the songs in this movie (like Bonnie Raitt for this one, and k.d. lang singing “Little Patch of Heaven” at the beginning) didn’t bother me very much at all, unlike the debacle that is Phil Collins (see “Tarzan” and “Brother Bear” analyses). I think the reason for this is that this movie just doesn’t feel like it has any Disney magic to lose. As a result, since this doesn’t really feel like a Disney movie, I don’t mind breaking the general Disney rule of having the characters sing the songs to tell the storyline.

    This scene, occurring during a sudden rainstorm, has a very melancholy feel, which matches the general mood of all of the characters at this point. The three cows are lost and stranded by the flash flood, Pearl sadly saying goodbye to her farm and her animals, and the sheriff feeling pretty sad about Pearl’s situation. The song sets the absolute low-point of the movie as a way to get ready for the comeback, as things are going to get better from now on. This is a common trope used by the “Star Wars” movies—there’s always an absolute low point in which it appears all is lost and the villains are winning, but in the end the good guys prevail and everything gets better from that point on.


    5. I guess I’ll analyze the symbol of Mrs. Calloway’s hat. It seems clear that Mrs. Calloway is the animal leader of Little Patch of Heaven, and I think the hat symbolizes her position of power. But I think she also views it as a symbol of her class and sophistication, that she is somehow better than the rest of the animals and especially Maggie (a “show cow”, imagine the nerve!). It is interesting that Maggie uses the (lack of her) hat to moooove (see what I did there?) Mrs. Calloway into acting in a decidedly unclassy and unsophisticated way, engaging in a mud fight with Maggie earlier in the movie and breaking the cows out of the cattle car towards the end. Finally, at the end of the movie Mrs. Calloway shares her hat with Maggie, tacitly accepting the fact that she might not be the only important or valuable member of the farm (and perhaps ceding some of her power?).


    7. The goal of the movie is to show that even the lowest or those least expected to do great things can do so if they put their minds to it. This is kind of an underdog (undercow?) movie in which the “everyman” can reach their goals and save the day. I that respect, it is similar to the concept of the TV show “Roseanne” of the 1990s.


    8. There are several quotes that feel similar to lines from previous (or future) Disney movies. These include:
    • When Maggie is introduced to the animals of Little Patch of Heaven, she says: “Now, don't everybody speak at one time. What is this, the frozen food section?”. This is very similar to what Hades says to the gods on Olympus: “So is this an audience or a mosaic?”
    • Mrs. Calloway says to Maggie: “Don’t they have sarcasm where you come from?” Very similar to the phrase Timon uses on Pumba in “Lion King 1 1/2" (“Sarcasm is a foreign language to you, isn’t it?”).
    • The man who buys the cows from Alameda Slim is called Mr. Weaseley by Slim, to which he replies: “It’s Wesley”. Feels an awful lot like the name pronunciation issues the Duke of Weaseltown (Weselton) has in “Frozen”.
    • Both this movie and LK1.5 also play a snippet of Wagner’s “Ride of the Valkyries”—when Pumba gases the hyenas out of the cave in LK1.5; when Alameda Slim is yodeling in HotR.
    • The buffalo does a Goofy yell when the three cows push him down a mineshaft.

    OK, so it’s not a Disney movie, but the whole escaping from dynamite in a coal cart in a mineshaft feels VERY reminiscent of the same scene in “Hoodwinked”. And both of these movies have one thing in common: Patrick Warburton!! Man, he has a great and distinctive voice!

    Finally, the end scene where all of the animals of Little Patch of Heaven attack Yancey O’Del (AKA Aladmeda Slim in disguise) to uncover his identity feels VERY similar to the scene in “Little Mermaid” where the birds and seals and aquatic animals attack Vanessa (AKA Ursula in disguise) to uncover her identity.


    9. The movie isn’t memorable enough to have an iconic scene, so I thought I’d go with a shot from the villain song with the psychedelic hypnotized cows (I also love the disgruntled look on the buffalo’s face!). Enjoy!

    [​IMG]

    10. Well, most of the pins for this movie have a three-shot of the three cows. I guess I could go with one of those since they are the stars of the film, but I like Alameda Slim better. So I chose this pin (36643), which features the wanted poster of Alameda Slim for cattle rustling.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  21. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

    Rating - 100%
    256   0   0

    I haven't seen Bambi 2 before now, so I'm looking forward to it. I don't know if it will beat the Lion King sequels for me, but I'll give it a chance.
     
  22. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    51   0   0

    I don’t really have a problem with sequels/prequels/“mid-quels” per se, but this one just seems really weak and low budget.

    1. and 2. and 8. My overall impression of the movie… Several things:

    OK, I find this movie entirely forgettable. The reason is: It’s just filled with so many clichés and stereotypes. It really feels like the writers were phoning it in, and just going for the path of least resistance/actual effort in using tired clichés that have been done (and done a WHOLE lot better) by other movies (Disney or not).

    Example #1 and character analysis for Bambi’s Dad: First and foremost, this is a movie about a father who is clearly accustomed to getting what he wants (usually, the prince or leader of the tribe) who is now being forced to do “woman’s work” in the raising of his kid. Cue the father trying to pawn the job off on another doe (it IS woman’s work after all, and beneath him) and the awkward interactions between the father and son, with the father being standoffish and distant and constantly telling him how a prince should behave because this is how he thinks men/fathers/princes should act (strong, not affectionate), he also thinks this is the best way to raise a child (or prince, which would require more social norms and customs), and—we eventually discover—the father is also unsure of HOW to be a caring and nurturing father. Also cue the child misinterpreting this standoffishness and aloofness as evidence that the father doesn’t really love him. So, their relationship starts out strained and you just want to scream at the father to show a little affection or explain his actions so that the child would know that you love him, or that your anger at him over freezing at the sight of the hunting dogs is more about the father’s fear of losing the child if had been caught. But eventually, the father notices some excellent quality in the child (in this case, Bambi’s ability to jump) and begrudgingly shows the praise (which the child interprets as his first true affection) that the child seems so starved of. From then on, things are better—the child isn’t so insecure and the father isn’t so standoffish, until at the end of the film we see scenes with genuine affection (i.e., the antler fighting) and we see that they have a strong bond after all. This storyline has been done before, and better, in movies such as “Kramer vs. Kramer”, and to some extent “Mr. Mom” and one of my favorites even though it wasn’t a smashing success: Kevin Smith’s “Jersey Girl”.

    The dynamic of the Father Prince, Bambi, and Mr. Owl (what, no tootsie roll pops?) also appears to be a progression/theft of the relationship between Mufasa, Simba, and Zazu (king, prince son, official adviser bird). I think that “Lion King” did this a bit better because it strayed away from the cliché of the father being so distant that the son didn’t believe that the father loved him. Sure, there was some awkwardness with Mufasa and Simba’s relationship, but you never felt that Simba was insecure about his father’s love.

    Also: Yes another voice issue, sort of. OK, Jean-Luc Picard as Bambi’s dad! I thought this would take me a while to get over, but it didn’t—in part because the whole regal prince of noble blood persona fits Patrick Stewart’s voice (and former roles) pretty accurately. But, then again, it feels like in the voice casting the movie took the easy way out. If you pick someone whose voice automatically sets the tone for the character, then you don’t have to write the character well, you can just fall back on the voice and let the audience’s expectations do the rest…

    Example #2 and character analysis for Ronno: Secondarily, this is a movie about an awkward adolescent “newcomer” and the tormenting of a bully. The bully is slightly older than the newcomer (he has antlers), loud, brash and pretty full of himself (convinced he is funny and brave and deserving of attention and worship, especially from the ladies) and quite eager to pick on anyone who seems alone or vulnerable. We also get hints that the bully is also very insecure and that he might not be in control in his home life and that makes him act out as a bully to others, to be in control (i.e., he’s a big ol’ mama’s boy!!). Cue the victim/main character’s friends trying to help him stand up to the bully, building up his confidence. This usually leads to awkward attempts of the main character to stand up to the bully, and the bully laughing at his victim and enjoying his role as bully. Eventually, the main character does stand up to the bully, does win, and does make the bully back down (probably to move on to another, weaker victim). Again, done so much better in other movies, like “My Bodyguard” and “Karate Kid”. “My Bodyguard” takes quite a unique perspective on this: Newcomer A (I forget the names) gets picked on by Bully B, so he hires a Bigger Bully C to be his bodyguard and to bully Bully B. Not to be outdone, Bully B hires Biggest Bully D to be HIS bodyguard. The movie ends with a fistfight between Newcomer A/Bully B AND Bigger Bully C/Biggest Bully D. Of course, A and C both win, and we have a happy ending! A double underdog movie! Sweet!

    Of course, this movie is also a progression (sequel) to “Bambi” and most of the characters (except Ronno) are transplants from the original movie. I don’t really have an issue with the idea of Disney sequels, but so many of them (like this one) seem to rely on our nostalgia/fuzzy feelings for the characters from the original movie and seem to go really light on the actual storyline and character development needed to make the sequel a good movie.

    I have one piece of advice for storywriters (Disney and non-Disney) telling a prequel (or in this case a mid-quel) story. The tired trope of injuring the main character and having their loved ones (in this case Bambi’s father) worry that the main character had been killed is NOT going to have any emotional impact because we already know that they will survive!! That is: Bambi COULDN’T have died from his fall after his fight with the hunting dogs because we all know that Bambi lives on past this scene, otherwise the SECOND HALF of the FIRST movie could never have happened!! Ugh! The writers of the three “Star Wars” prequels seriously needed to get this memo.

    Other issues:
    • I LOVED the animations of the deer in the winter and the frosty breath as they exhaled. Very cool. I never really had an issue with the visuals of this movie; they’re all really pretty good.
    • Why would Bambi freak out about how cold the water was when stepped in it when he has been walking on a frozen ground covered with snow all along?
    • I’m not sure what all of the scenes with Bambi “bleating” at everyone and everything is supposed to do or mean, but I found it to be nothing… except annoying. Everyone else’s “growls” just sounded like the character’s voice saying, “grrr.” So why didn’t Bambi’s?


    3. The sequence I chose to analyze was Bambi’s dream/the hunter sequence. Bambi is dreaming of rollicking in a field of wheat and then he hears his mother’s voice, and runs to her. The images clearly have blurry edges to denote that this is a dream. Bambi awakens from his dream to hear a disembodied voice saying, “I’m Here”, “Hello”, and “It’s me”. Bambi rushes out to meet his mother and ends up on an open field listening to the voice. Then Bambi sees the birds fleeing and yelling “Man!” and then he sees the dogs.

    OK, it took me a while to realize that this scene is implying that Man’s deer calls are saying “I’m Here”, “Hello”, and “It’s me”!! OK, I call BS on this! I’m sure as humans we can make a deer call that sounds similar to an actual deer, but I seriously doubt we can create one that says actual words in “deer language”, let alone words so perfectly formed with sound and intent to lure the deer to them. It’s more likely that it would sound like gibberish (kind of like “words” but in reality just nonsense “syllables”, and this could still evoke curiosity in the deer). Suspension of disbelief NOT achieved!!


    4. The song I chose to analyze was “There is Life”, the song playing right after the title. It’s all about the rebirth of nature after a cold winter. My problem with the song is that it’s just so cliché. First, it just drips with saccharine and the sickeningly sweet voice and the images of cute animals (especially baby animals) awaking from their hibernation and the seedling emerging from snow. Second, I don’t really see the point of it. Yes, it’s sweet and it’s cute, but… so what? Was it really needed? Couldn’t we just cut to Bambi waking from his winter’s sleep?


    7. I suppose I could cynically say that the goal of this movie was to make $$ off of our love of the “Bambi” characters without the need for, you know, good writers or an original plot. But… I guess the goal of this film is to explore two (already well-explored) topics of the awkward father learning to raise his child and the weak newcomer learning to stand up to a bully on his way to becoming an adult.


    9. Even after answering question 7, I’m not really sure what I think is the major point of “Bambi II”, and that makes it hard to pick an iconic shot of the movie! So I guess I’ll go with a father-son bonding moment, for a lack of anything better.

    [​IMG]


    10. I’m finding myself in the same spot I was in with LK1.5—so many of the Bambi pins are from or referential to the first movie and not this one. So, I chose this pin (128821—it’s a palindrome!). I know it’s from “Bambi” but it is one of the few pins with Bambi and his father.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  23. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    I had the exact same thought. I haven't finished watching it though.

    Wait till I get there I'll do a LOT of explaining about their relationship in the original book. :D
     
  24. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0

    I tried to like this, movie, I really tried. But somehow it didn't really have the magic and that made me a little sad :(

    1. What is your overall impression of the film? Some possible talking points include: what you did or did not like about it; what about the film has stuck with you; what did you find different on this viewing; how would modern audiences respond to this (for the older films)… The list goes on. Hahah!
    It’s a movie I’ve watched for the first time. I didn’t even bother to check the hun dub. The art, the story, everything seems a bit sloppier than usually. I definitely get what @unibear was talking about with the “old Tex Avery Bug Bunny/Wolf/Droopy cartoons of the 1940s” feeling. It feels like it wasn’t really made with much love, which makes me a little sad :( Thean agin, there were a few moments I really liked.

    2. Choose one specific character to analyze. You can explore how a character acts, what they say, how they dress, etc. to explain what they may represent or their function and meaning in the narrative. Try to avoid obvious "plot" stuff (ex: the Evil Queen is a villain, so her purpose is to be bad...), but explore unique and specific elements about the character (ex: the EQ is surrounded by images of peacocks, further suggesting her obsession with vanity). You may also use these elements to explain why you connected or disconnected from the character.
    I’ll go with Grace since she is the one I liked most. She ha a sunny temper and also a sunny color, to emphasize her cheerful nature. She’s basically a little sun who brings ligh into the lives of the others (not with her singing, though) She also acts as a peacemaker sometimes is very friendly and helpful.

    3. Choose one specific scene or sequence to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? Your analysis could include the scene’s use of color, action, camera angles, music, character development, setting, backdrop, style, etc. If you can justify it with evidence from the scene, then it’s an analysis!
    When the three cows get caught in the rain and flood and they lose hope the scene also gets dark and everything becomes greyish, to emphasize that moment when the enimals have no hope, are frustrated and overflow with negative emotions. The rain also cries for them – sheds the tears they can’t at the moment.

    4. Choose one song to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? What purpose does this song have in the film and does it succeed in that purpose?
    I choose "Will the Sun Ever Shine Again" because it was a very emotional and beautiful song for me. It delivered all the sadness the characters on the screen felt. Also, the greyish colors strenghtened the depressing feelings. [​IMG]

    5. Choose one specific symbol in the film to analyze. A symbol is typically something inanimate, an object, rather than a character. So don’t say “Brer Bear represents dumb people,” as that’s more of a character analysis than a symbol. Rather, think about specific objects (jewelry, clothing, houses, food, weapons, etc.) What does this symbol mean and how does that meaning impact the film?
    Hmm Graces bell seems like a possibility, representing her being tone deaf – and that saved them, just like she hit the villain with her bell at the end to stop him from singing.

    6. Choose a single line of dialog that you find to be the most significant/impactful line in the film and why. You can be a little loose with the “single line” bit, but let’s not go for Maleficent’s entire monologue to Philip... Rather, something like Stitch’s “This is my family. I found it all on my own. It’s little, and broken, but still good. Yeah – still good.” (brb weeping).
    We don’t have time for this, we have a farm to save! – Maybe we can help you!
    It’s very simple but it somehow expresses that if you like someone, you are willing to help, even if it’s actually not connected to you at all. Because family.

    7. What is this film’s overall goal? Is it to teach a specific lesson (what is it) or get an emotional response (such as)? Or both? And how well or poorly does the film succeed in that goal? Be specific!
    I think it’s about family and to stick together and help each other during bad times. To reach the goals, they have to put aside their differences or they’ll lose everything.

    8. What connections or progressions do you see in this film to past films? Example: how does Sleeping Beauty progress (or digress?) the princess archetype built in Cinderella? Be specific! Also, consider what use there is in returning to or re-imagining those elements?
    I guess the already mentioned connection to the older shorts could be mentioned? It felt really different from the Disney movies so far so I didn’t relly find a connection.

    9. What is the iconic shot of the film? What single frame of animation do you find to be the most memorable and why? Post it! You can check out this link to find some great screencaps to help!
    I guess the first view of Patch of Hevan could be considered iconic?
    [​IMG]

    10. What single pin do you think best represents this film for you? Why? Give us the pin number and post a picture!
    Pin 33024 WDW - Cast Exclusive - Home On The Range (Dangle)
    [​IMG]

    Stray thoughts:
    that villain bewitching the cows reminded me of the tale Rat-Catcher of Hamelin by the Brothers Grimm.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  25. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

    Rating - 100%
    256   0   0

    Just finished Home on the Range, heading into Bambi 2. I've only seen HotR once before now, and I forgot how bizarre it is.

    ETA: Finished Bambi. Will type out my reviews tomorrow, when my brain is functioning better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    MerlinEmrys likes this.

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