The Disney 52 Animated Challenge: Year-Long Activity - NOW PLAYING: Wreck-It Ralph AND Frozen

Discussion in 'DPF Game Room' started by MerlinEmrys, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Just finished my watch. Oh man... That Red Skin song and scene... Oof...

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  2. Ajk

    Ajk Not so new anymore.

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    Different times. Different times.
    It will be interesting to see what we do today that XX years from now gets a similar reaction.
     
  3. Ajk

    Ajk Not so new anymore.

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    While I will brace myself for @Purplemandms wrath, I do need to say that I find it interesting that Tink became this sweet little icon of happiness and pixie dust for Disney. She is an attempted murderess people! Multiple attempts! And she never spread her pixie dust - Peter had to literally shake it out of her!

    Of course, she is still awfully cute and I have a nice mini collection of her pins. (Heck, check out some of my grails.) But I enjoy being a hypocrite. (And a trouble maker.) :D
     
  4. Purplemandms

    Purplemandms Like the candy!

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    If I didn't have to write up my drafts for my two senior thesis projects over the next week, I would totally do a deep dive analysis about the symbolism in Tink's character. But in short, I think that she is one of the most flawed characters in Disney-lore (so to speak). But despite that, she still has friends and people to support her. Also as a child I really resonated with the whole "fairies can only hold one emotion at a time because they're so small".
     
  5. xdattax

    xdattax Well-Known Member

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    1. What is your overall impression of the film?

    So Peter Pan is not one of my favorites, but i don’t hate it either. The movie is pretty much a fantasy about the fear of growing up, which even as an adult I feel (old millennial, job doesn’t pay enough to move out, too old for entry level, too young for senior management, but really don’t even know what I want to do when I do grow up). The art didn’t feel as pretty as some of the previous films, but perhaps they weren’t going for pretty, with Peter Pan feeling like one of the first films to appeal to boys versus having a female lead or a more gender neutral story.

    2. Choose one specific character to analyze.
    So, Tinkerbell, how modern Disney has toned you down! While she is the main jealous female here, all the female characters, expect Mary and Tigerlily, are shown in piques of jealousy but Tink’s green eyes cause the most trouble. She’s also show as vain (as are the mermaids) and malevolent (again, so are the mermaids). She’s got a crush on Peter but it’s only when she’s seriously hurt he admits that’s she’s the most important thing to him (even though he seems to have a crush on Tigerlily and in the non-Disney sequel book, she’s evidently dead). Tink lets her anger get the best of her until the very end.

    this is supposed to be post-Pixie Hollow so I don’t really see Pan and Pixie to be the same universe, different Tinkerbells!

    3. Choose one specific scene or sequence to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response?

    Poor George. He’s written and animated to be the blundering bombastic man of the house who makes decisions that make no sense! His wild tumble in the nursery and the family’s subsequent fawning over Nana reminds me of the Rodney Dangerfield line “I get no respect!” Who blames the dog for being underfoot? That’s what dogs do! Though he was redeemed later at the end, his banishing of Nana causes trouble (much like Peter’s banishing of Tink!)

    4. Choose one song to analyze
    Man, I keep hitting the problematic ones! What Made the Redman Red was probably the catchiest and most fun song in the movie, but boy howdy that would not not get made today, kind of like when the sheriff is a near, though the sheriff was much better done. It was stereotypical, sexist, and racist all to make both a sex joke and a mother-in-law joke. The “squaw get firewood” line is reflective of the early 50s, women were being put back “in their place” since the menfolk were all home from war now and needed their jobs and “manly” fun back. Off to chores with you, little woman! However the drumming was catchy and the whole scene feels like it was inspired by kids playing Cowboys and Indians especially since westerns were quite popular then.

    5. Choose one specific symbol in the film to analyze.
    John’s top hat and umbrella seem to represent John being in the middle of growing up and being a child. Wendy is pretty well grown, she takes care of her brothers, does chores while they play, and is the one who has to answer for them including so far as to walk the plank. John play acts at being a man, an officer and gentleman just to be mocked by the primates who, unknown to him, swipe his hat. He takes an affected tone to lead the Lost Boys though he really doesn’t know what he’s doing, swinging an umbrella like a sword. Don’t bring a knife to a gun fight there, John.

    7. What is this film’s overall goal?
    Is the goal to sympathize with Peter or Hook? It’s hard to tell. Peter isn’t terribly likeable so perhaps it’s to show a flawed hero. But is he a hero? He certainly is not completely benevolent. Why did he cut off Hook’s hand? A battle sure, but why toss it to TicToc? And what makes Hook so obsessed with revenge? If it was an honorable injury (though Hook and Peter both seem to be playing fast and loose with their word) he should accept it. But was it? And how did he get stuck in neverland? Either way, I think this movie shows is the protagonist isn’t always the best character. If anything I’d say Wendy was the hero.

    Also, obligatory VHS shot:
    [​IMG]

    And the inside:
    [​IMG]

    Oh. And best pin for the movie?

    I picked two, since I have them.

    [​IMG]
    Peter looking like he’s fixing to make trouble

    [​IMG]
    Mermaid fixing to commit murder.



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  6. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    I don't think it is constructed consequently but in one of the books it is mentioned that later Tink returned to tinkering. She revisits Peter Pan to look for a tinkering hammer in that story. But in the movies we see her arrival so that has to be before Peter Pan. So yes, it's like two completely different Tinks.
    In the hungarian version she is called Csingiling, Csing for short and that word is actualli the imitation of the sound a bell makes. In another storybook she had a different name and that one also imitated the sound of a bell.
     
  7. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    1. Overall Impression:
    I could write about the book/play Peter Pan for days. I’ve taught the play, I’m using the book in my dissertation—this thing is a really important story and chock full of material. The Disney version….not so much. It waters down or glosses over some of the more interesting aspects of the original (in much the same way that Alice did), which is sadly to its detriment. I promise, though, this won’t be a lot of “well in the book…”

    As for the film itself, I would say it’s one of the most beautiful so far (and perhaps for quite some time). The animation is exceptional, especially for Wendy and Tiger Lily. The backgrounds are lovely and the entire world just comes to life in a way that past films didn’t quite nail. I will say, too, that Peter Pan is the most purely “Disney” film in terms of message. The idea that, yes, everyone has to grow up, but you don’t have to grow “out” of your imagination (like the Father).

    All in all, certainly not my favorite in terms of story. But one of the more memorable for sure.


    2. Character Analysis:
    I went back and forth about whom I wanted to discuss for this question. But since I’m going to pass over the “What Makes the Red Man Red” song—because I think we all got the point—I’ll touch on Tiger Lily.

    Just knowing that people typically like Tiger Lily a lot, I expected her to have a much larger role. And even though her presence in the film is short, for plot reasons, she had the potential to be much more significant. Firstly, in a film which grossly stereotypes an entire culture, she remains the only human character from the Indian tribe—all the others being propped up caricatures:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    In this way, she could have been the redeeming factor for this part of the plot. However, she’s literally robbed of any voice or agency in the film, and for no good reason. When she is kidnapped and interrogated by Hook, she remains proudly silent. Her head is upturned, her back is straight. Her silence here is her choice. That’s awesome, you go girl. But when the tide comes in and she is actually in danger, she goes to call for help, gets out the first half of the word, and is choked by the water.

    [​IMG]

    If she had had any lines after this point, there wouldn’t be anything for me to discuss. But the fact that she remains silent even after the rescue, despite plenty of opportunities for her to speak, resonates a bit as her being silenced. Again, she was the one human representation of a caricatured culture in this film, yet she was gagged in her single cry for help.

    I don’t mean to extrapolate any particular feelings onto Walt or his animators, but Tiger Lily’s treatment here is indicative of marginalized peoples in film, both then and now. Human, realistic representations are silenced or cowed by the comedic relief stereotypes. And rather than get any sort of development (Does she have feelings for Pan? Does she know about Wendy?), she’s glossed over in favor of a sexy dance and a phoned-in series of racist goofs.

    Again, I know this was a different time, and I’m sure/hope that Walt and Co. did not do any of this intentionally or maliciously. But it’s a trend that persists even 65 years later and I couldn’t pass on discussing it.


    5. Symbol Analysis:
    One of the biggest aspects of both the book and the film is the idea of “play” and “pretend.” In this way, I believe one of the strongest symbols is John’s top hat. Alone, it isn’t much beyond a spiffy anecdote to his character design. However, he wears it and his umbrella as a means to appear more grown up than he really is. A well-to-do Victorian man would never be caught dead outside his home without his hat, and John adopts that overly stuffy “head of the family” persona and wears his hat as the proof of his pretend adulthood. “We’re Following the Leader” is a solid example of this, as John becomes the de facto leader of the Lost Boys’ expedition, despite having only been on the island for about five minutes.

    Consider too that other characters put on costumes frequently as a way to pretend to be something they’re not: Hook putting on the gold hook to appear more genteel, Peter putting on Hook’s outfit to be captain. Or when the boys wipe away their war paint because they’re tired of pretending to be Indians and would rather be little boys with mothers. Costumes, then, are at the core of the characters’ pretend. And if the film is all about growing up, then John’s hat, which he wears to pretend to be more grown up, becomes that much more charged.


    6. Line Analysis:
    Speaking of pretend, when the boys are captured by the Indians, John is startled to discover that the whole exchange is all pretend: “You mean, this is all a game?” The boys are in, quite literally, a life or death situation (remember, they could be burned at the stake), but the danger is all pretend…or it usually is, until now.

    The story’s flippancy toward legitimate danger is a core aspect of Neverland. When the Mermaids say, “We were only trying to drown her,” or that Peter’s cutting off Hook’s hand was “just a childish prank,” or when Hook shoots the pirate and Smee chastises him for “shooting a man in the middle of his cadenza” glossing over the fact that he just KILLED someone, the entire world runs on ignoring or at least undercutting the serious danger in exchange to create this sort of utopia of childhood where you never grown up (and thus never die). But the viewer (and Wendy) are quick to realize that these dangers are very real.

    In many ways, the soft-pedalling of the danger in the film is represented in Hook’s trap: the giftwrapped bomb. On the outside it’s nice and pretty and vibrant, but just under the service lies potential catastrophe. This is a common thread in children’s literature (think also of Alice almost getting burned alive in the Rabbit’s house), but these lines call a great deal of attention to this trend.


    7. Overall Goal:
    Rather than what Neverland may suggest, I believe that this film is actually all about growing up, not necessarily staying an eternal (idealized) child. The film opens with the threat of Wendy leaving the nursery and having to grow up. But as Wendy travels with Peter, she realizes that growing up and being a grown up is not only necessary, but positive. Peter Pan, the eternal child, is basically a selfish brat that, frankly, you don’t really like. Wendy, on the other hand, is mature while maintaining her childlike faith (remember her stepping off the plank with her head held high). Similarly, the Father is established at the beginning as an over-the-top, ineffective tyrant of the family. Whereas at the end, he remembers the ship form his childhood, and both the Mother’s and Wendy’s (and the audience’s) hearts are softened to him. In this way, the story isn’t about staying a child, it’s about growing up without growing “out” of that childlike wonderment and imagination.


    9. Iconic Shot:
    Can there really be anything other than the Big Ben scene?

    [​IMG]


    10. Representative Pin:
    And, of course, there are a plethora of Peter Pan pins. But I’m quite fond of the Hidden Mickey which shows the characters silhouetted against the clocktower. It’s just a nice, tidy representation of that super iconic moment.

    [​IMG]
    Pin 89721 WDW - 2011 Hidden Mickey Completer Pin - United Kingdom Collection - Peter Pan Clock Face (PWP)


    Spare notes:

    **I assume most people know this already, or noticed it during their watching. But the Father and Hook are played by the same actor. This is the traditional method for the show, as Hook in many ways represents the extreme adult (obsessed with “good form” and order) in constant strife with Peter, the eternal child. So the Father, who exiles childish fancy from the nursery (including Nana) becomes vilified in Hook.

    There’s also a HUGE thread of criticism about Hook/ the Father being emasculated, which I’m happy to discuss as a side bar if anyone’s interested.


    **Hooks’ face when he shoots the singing pirate is absolutely priceless. It’s not even that he’s mad, just momentarily perturbed.

    [​IMG]

    I think Russ may sympathize with Hook here a bit. I break out into song a lot. XD


    **Tiger Lily’s dancing is perhaps the most beautiful sequence of animation so far.

    [​IMG]


    **Fun Fact: J. M. Barrie left the rights to the story to a children’s hospital when he died so they could continue to run off the revenue. So Disney provides that great little “Thank You” slide in the opening credits as he, presumably, had to go through them to get the rights for the film.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. caw caw rawr

    caw caw rawr Squirrel!

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    [​IMG]

    So, on this, my kids watched it with me today. We all went, "wait a second, Captain Hook just killed that guy!" Death aside, it's one of my favorite moments only because of Smee's reaction, "Shooting a man in the middle of his cadenza? That ain't good form, you know." :) I was reminded of how much I adore Mr. Smee. The things he says and does are just funny. Like when he thinks Captain Hook's head is gone, "Oh, dear! I never shaved him this close before." :)
     
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  9. pincrazy

    pincrazy Well-Known Member

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    1) Overall Impression, the movie was beautifully animated, with creative imagery. Dated itself similar to Dumbo and Pinocchio with it's references to minorities. I wondered why they used the same voice for Mr. Darling and Capt Hook, or it seemed like it. (Oops just read Merlin's comments) I thought it was cruel when he took(dragged) Nana outside and tied her up, not to mention, as earlier commented, about the Red Man song, even if it was a sign of the time.
    3) The sequence that was magical was when they flew above London. The idea of flying above the city was something that not everyone got to enjoy at that time, and was a magical idea of being able to have a bird's eye view. What's not clear is the jump from London to Neverland, or maybe I missed it.
    4) Of course the song I pick is You Can Fly, it's the romantic melody that becomes the theme for the ride at Disneyland.
    It's purpose is to sell the dream/thought that it's possible to come true, and to give it the transition from leaving yhe bedroom with Peter and Tink.
    5) Until it stops appearing, the symbol I pick once again are thr Clocks! This time there's 3, the one in the Croc, the bomb, and inside the treehouse is a cuckoo clock. Once again stressing Time, but also a haunting of doom for Capt Hook and the destruction for Peter. Although the bomb doesn't kill him, just buries him in rubble?
    10) PP#96933, of them flying, it's a little dark in lighting, but it's the iconic scene, that ties in with my other selections. Sorry not much variety for me this time.
    Side question: noticed that the expression Jiminy was used again, was this a commonly used word back in the day?
    Wow it's March! : )
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  10. slbrabham

    slbrabham Well-Known Member

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    Peter Pan Analysis

    1.) Overall Impressions

    I enjoyed the film more than I imagined due to Tinkerbell and Wendy. I thought the film was cute with mostly good animation. I know that the film was based on the book, but the characters appear well designed. The characters are not just variations of each other (like the Dwarves). The Darling children are designed to look like well kept children with clean cut hair. The Lost Boys have no one to care for them so their hair is in disarray. The glow around Tinkerbell and the sparkles from her pixie dust is distinct. The golden ship at the end was beautiful. The Indians are drawn in a stereotypical way which is not flattering today but understandable for the time period. Tiger Lily is really lovely. (The Pirates made me think of the outlaws at the Snuggly Duckling.)

    While the film is named after Peter Pan, I think Wendy is the strongest character and Tinkerbell has the most growth. Wendy knew who she was at the start of the film and had firm ideals that she kept. She was the reliable, dedicated older sister who enjoyed caring for her younger brothers. Her actions and expressions show that she loves her brothers.

    Though Peter planned for Wendy to stay, she never acted as if the trip was a permanent stay. She didn't want to explore the tree where the Lost Boys lived. Instead, she wanted to explore the island seeing as much as she could before her return to London. When someone acted rudely, like the mermaids, she calls out their teasing as unkind. She reminded Peter to save Tiger Lily from drowning when he would have forgotten her. She acted responsibly though she maintained her child like innocence and joy. Wendy knew that Neverland could not be their home even though she was upset with her father's actions. She never forgot her family or her reality. She didn't want to runaway.

    I noticed that Peter Pan's design was very elf-like.
    [​IMG]
    While the other children had rounded ears, Peter's ears are pointed and his clothing was green like an elf's clothes.

    The music was pleasant for the most part though I didn't really remember any song but the racist Indian song. The villain Hook was not very scary for a pirate.

    My favorite sequence was the transition from the overhead island shot to the moon to the face of Big Ben at the end.

    2.). Character Analysis

    Tinkerbell had the most character growth during the course of the film. Tink transformed from a jealous, vindictive pixie to a genuinely self-sacrificing companion. I understood the motivation for her actions more than either Peter or Hook. She loved Peter and was jealous.

    At the start of the film, she accompanied Peter to Darling children's room. She became agitated when Peter showed interest in Wendy. For example, her face turned red in anger when in the drawer. When Peter asked Tink to safely guide the children to his camp, she raced ahead to lie to the Lost Boys in an effort to hurt Wendy. The Lost Boys believed that Tink was conveying Peter's order to shoot down the "Wendy-bird" so either her jealously had been well hidden or this was an isolated incident.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    When banished, Tink's hurt feeling allowed Hook to manipulate her. If she hadn't cared for Peter she wouldn't have so readily believed Hook. She wanted to do what was best for Peter.

    Finally, Tink realized that her actions had been selfish and caused hurt to others. She was willing and ready to sacrifice herself to save Peter when she learned that he was in danger.
    [​IMG]
    Her actions saved Peter from death. When Peter searched the debris for her after the explosion, she told him to find Wendy and the boys. She put the needs of others above her own. For the first time, Peter showed that he cared for her, but she realized the risk to the others and knew rescuing the others was more important.

    3. and 6.) Scene Analysis and Dialogue Analysis

    John leads the Lost Boys to capture some Indians. John outlines his plan to circle the Indians. To start with, John informs the group that they will incircle the Indians. As he is explaining his plan to the group, the Indians are enacting John's battle plan. The camera's lens shows everyone as it looks down at the group from above the scene.
    [​IMG]

    Next, John tells the group that they will need to surprise the Indians while the Indians hiding in the trees are sneaking up on the boys. The music's beat follows the Indians as they move forward enclosing the Lost Boys.
    [​IMG]

    Only little Michael notices the Indians, but he is unable to make the others listen to him. The background music increases in tempo as Michael's rapid and frantic movements increase in his desperate attempt to tell the other boys about the Indians.

    Just as John ends discussing his plan, the Indians launch the sneak attack. He says, "the Indian is cunning but less intelligent" just as the Indians attack. [​IMG]

    John acts as if he knows best, but he misses the signs of the Indian attack. He is only a boy pretending to know best. The boys are unprepared for the dangers of the Indian attack. In this fight, they act like the children they are and try to run away.

    During the later Indian village scene, the Indians are portrayed in a stereotypical way as simple. During this scene, the Indians cleverly use strategy to capture the Lost Boys and disprove John's words. The scene is humorous but revels the dangers of being a grown up.

    4.) Song Analysis

    The Second Star to the Right

    This song plays as the credits roll at the start of the film. It's lyrics describe the way to Neverland. In travels before satellite navigation, stars guided explorers and travelers on their journey at night. The second star guides the children to Neverland.

    Also, I believe this title is a paraphrase of a quote from the book.

    5.) Symbol

    Images of clocks, sounds from clocks, and actual clocks repeat throughout the film. The symbolism of time is pretty on the nose, but it is important.

    On the way to Neverland, the Darling children and Peter fly by Big Ben. The clock chimes signaling the start of this adventure. This scene is mirrored at the end of the journey when the island transitions to the moon and the moon morphs into Big Ben.

    Tick Tock is heard throughout the film as he chases Hook. The repeating tick tock of the clock signals Hook's impending death.

    The bomb attached to a clock that Hook leaves for Peter symbolizes the idea that time is going to kill Peter. In Neverland, Peter won't grow older so time has no power over him. With the time bomb, Peter is at time mercy just as people not in Neverland.

    Side Note: Who made Peter's clock in his hideout?

    7.) Film's Goal

    The "Never Grow Up" idea presented through Peter and the Lost Boys' return to Neverland could be one message a person learns from this movie. A viewer is likely to gain this message if one identifies with Peter Pan. His no worries lifestyle has become synonymous for people who don't want to take responsibility.

    However, I believe the more important message in this film is the idea that growing up is part of life. Childhood is an important time when children should be encouraged to dream and imagine, though real life cannot be ignored. Wendy characterized this message in that she wanted to keep her childhood as long as she could, she believed in the existence of magic, and she returned to the real world with its responsibilities. First, Wendy wanted to stay in the nursery with her brothers. This stance showed the viewer that Wendy still saw herself as a child. Next, Wendy told magical stories of Peter Pan to her brothers, and she believed Peter when he appeared. These actions showed that Wendy possessed magical dreams and a vivid imagination. Finally, Wendy returned home from Neverland. Wendy knew that to stay in Neverland was an unnatural. Neverland like childhood was an idyllic place with hidden dangers, but it was never changed it grew.

    9.) Classic Scene

    The most classic scene in Peter Pan is the Darling children and Peter flying through the dark London sky.

    [​IMG]

    It's beautiful and magical.

    10.) Pin

    Pin 33848 represents the movie because the pin shows the Darling children and most of the characters from Neverland.

    [​IMG]


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  11. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    1. I'm sorry, Pan fans. I tried to like it. I really did. I went into it with an open mind, and watched for things I didn't remember or hadn't ever picked up on. But I just can't get behind it. :( Rewatching it has cemented it as my least favorite Disney animated movie, even more than Dumbo.

    [​IMG]

    Tessa and Peter Pan's Day of Fun!

    Mary and Tiger Lily are the only women in the entire film that weren't a grossly racist characterization and/or some version of the jealous in-fighting female trope (some characters showed both, like the older native woman who kept telling Wendy to fetch firewood). Tink's jealousy almost resulted in the Lost Boys killing Wendy, and ultimately led to betrayal of the person she was jealous for, nearly getting Peter killed. Even Wendy became jealous of Peter's interaction with Tiger Lily (even though Wendy's known him for one night and Peter obviously has lived in Neverland for quite a long time and would naturally have a closer relationship with her). Mary is shown with only good qualities to act as the ideal mother character that Wendy sings about to the Lost Boys, and besides strength and defiance we don't know anything else about Tiger Lily (as Merlin noted, her lines consisted of one half of the word "help.").

    On the other end of the spectrum, all of the male characters embody various levels of toxic masculinity. Hook is the first effeminate male villain, and while he is clever (he catches on to Pan's trick in the cave right away), he is shown as being somewhat of a buffoon, overly reactive, and overly slapstick. Smee is less effeminate but his close connection to Hook gives him the same negative traits. Peter and the Lost Boys are violent to a cartoonish level (throwing all of their weaponry at Wendy, two or three giant dogpiles of fighting with each other, etc.). George easily loses his temper, to the point of tying the family dog up outside with a rope and banning Wendy from the nursery all because he can't find his cufflinks and the children drew on his shirtfront with easily removable chalk (aka were being children).

    I realize this movie came out in the 50's, and this may be a product of growing up through the 90's and 2000's, but the sheer amount of racism against the native people was staggering. (Admittedly I have never read the book, so I don't know how much of this was transferred over from the book, but I'm guessing the song at least was an entirely Disney insertion.) Their speech pattern, the way they are drawn with overly red tones in their skin and grossly exaggerated facial features, the way they walk, the lyrics of the song, the terminology they use to describe the characters, even the white characters imitating them. Then again, you have people to this day that defend the Washington Redskins' name and imagery by claiming it's to honor them... I find it fascinating that Disney went to extreme lengths to erase Sunflower from re-releases of Fantasia, and largely avoids Song of the South (aside from Splash Mountain), but this garbage remains. I understand it would be tricky to just edit it all out since it's such a large part of the movie, but at least throw up a disclaimer before the movie about it being created in a different time or something to acknowledge that it's a problem.

    Now, it wasn't *all* bad; the scenery is gorgeously drawn (it's not as in-your-face Mary Blair as Alice is, but you can definitely see her influence), and I liked some of the characters (ok, pretty much just Nana and Mary...), but the bad just seriously outweighs the good in my opinion.


    5. I choose shadows. The usage of shadow served to separate London from Neverland pretty effectively. In London, the majority of characters were introduced first by their shadow or silhouette. Wendy is the one exception, which makes her stand out from the other characters. (Even Tink, who can't cast or be in shadow due to her glow, is shown first as a small silhouette against the night sky.) This is the first screencap of each character in London:

    [​IMG]

    Even after they were introduced, the shadows are very pronounced, cast onto surfaces, and often follow a character as they go offscreen:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    And Peter loses his ENTIRE shadow for awhile.

    [​IMG]

    Contrasted to that, the shadows in Neverland seem much less pronounced overall. About half the time there were minimal shadows directly underneath characters, and the other half these were no shadows at all:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    To me, that shows a contract between reality and fantasy. Shadow can be a small detail, but one that is noticeable and when it's missing or acting different than it does in the real world, it can convey the feeling that the setting is otherwordly. The fact that Peter could lose his shadow acts as the link between reality (it looks the same as a shadow does in real life) and fantasy (but behaves in a different manner).


    8. There are several noticeable links between this and Alice in Wonderland, its immediate predecessor. Both Alice and Wendy are voiced and live modeled by Kathryn Beaumont, both take place mostly in fantastical worlds full of dangers, and both involve characters on the cusp of adulthood. However, Peter Pan takes that to the next level; while Alice comes back from Wonderland almost in the same place she was at before and only wants to come back when she is in immediate danger, Wendy learns that growing up is actually a positive thing and readily returns back home.


    9. This was the most memorable single shot to me because HOLY CRIPES, this is how we're introduced visually to Peter and it just makes him seem so SINISTER. The mask-shaped shadow establishes right away that Peter is a trickster, which is displayed at several times later in the movie. We've heard from the Darlings a little bit about Peter already, and this is showing another large facet of his personality.

    [​IMG]

    10. Peter's expression above is the most memorable single shot for me, but the scene at the end when Tink covers the entire ship in pixie dust and they fly it back to London is one of the scenes that I remember from watching it when I was younger. I remember thinking that the feat of flying an entire ship was pretty impressive. And seeing the ship in the clouds against the moon is one thing that finally softens George up to childhood again. I wasn't able to find a pin of the cloud ship, but this is the best representative of the flying ship that I saw:

    [​IMG]

    Pin# 38756 - Disney Auctions - Peter Pan and Tinker Bell Jumbo


    Random Thoughts:

    ~ Did...did Michael pour pixie dust on Nana and then just fly away while she was floating there? How did she not strangle to death? Also, how did Nana start floating? She wasn't around for the instructions on how to fly. Does she just always think happy thoughts?

    ~ I had no memory of Smee having a British accent. I remembered the garbly/warbly quality of his voice, but not the British accent on top of that. (I think I'm just used to Jake and the Neverland Pirate Smee?)
     
  12. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    In watching the movie, Hook off-handedly mentions to Smee (and us) that losing his hand was OK (both Smee and Hook agree that cutting off his hand was a "childish prank"), but Peter giving it to the crocodile was the unforgivable part. Man, he needs to work on his priorities. Although I think he said this to explain to the audience that the crocodile liked the taste and is now obsessively trailing Hook so that he can eat the rest of him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  13. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    I think you're hinting at this, but allow me to be more explicit. I did notice that Tiger Lily was the only Indian NOT depicted as RED! She is also the only Indian character depicted as being more "white", for a lack of a better word. She is animated just like Wendy (and her brothers, Hook, Smee), but this may be saying more about the animators' time and efforts than about race relations, but then again...

    I would also point out that the only reason John took over as the de facto leader of the Lost Boys is because Peter told him to before he and Wendy left to go see the mermaids.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  14. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    Tink is strong in the Force. "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
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    Well, my Goodwill had a sale yesterday, so I got VHS tapes of about 10 movies that I didn’t have before for $0.50, and Peter Pan was one of them!

    So… Here we go!

    1. My overall impression of the movie… Perhaps it’s because I just watched and critiqued Alice in Wonderland, but most of my initial impressions were: This is a re-hash of Alice in Wonderland! I thought I’d call it: “Wendy in Neverland (How do you get to Neverland…).”

    First off: Wendy = Alice. (1) Same initial whimsy, although Wendy seems more grounded and accepting of reality than Alice; (2) both not wanting to grow up at the beginning of the movie; (3) both are experts in the imaginary land (Alice “makes it up” in her mind/dream, Wendy reads the established and published stories); (4) Both “knowing” that outlandish things will work in this dream world (Wendy “knows” to sew Peter’s shadow to his feet; Alice “knows” that eating a carrot will make her shrink); (5) both foreshadowing the dream land with their initial thoughts before actually reaching the dream land (talking rabbit & singing flowers for Alice; mermaid lagoon for Wendy); (6) Both represent the “voice of reason” in their movies; (7) both eventually see the silliness of said dream world and want to go home (Alice saying “Well, I’ve had enough nonsense; I’m going home!” after leaving the tea party; Wendy saying “Squaw no-get-um firewood, squaw go home!” after leaving the red-man pow-wow); (8) both waking from a dream to be with their family at the end of the movie; and of course, (9) having the same voice (Kathryn Beaumont).

    Neverland = Wonderland. Both are dream worlds that don’t follow established Victorian norms and social mores. Both are nonsense “children’s” worlds.

    Nana = Dinah. Perhaps a stretch, but adorable pets in the real world. I will say that Nana is more humanized than Dinah, giving her the ability to care for the kids, but not yet an animal with full-out human behaviors.

    Smee = White Rabbit. (1) Again, same voice (Bill Thompson). This is what started me on noticing the similarities. Smee running around at the beginning of the movie felt just like the White Rabbit running around at the beginning of his movie. I fully expected Smee to say “I’m late”! (2) Also, they served as the man-servant (herald) for the villain and (3) both were afraid of the rage/fury of their bosses.

    Hook = Queen of Hearts. (1) Both are villains who would think nothing of killing a child; (2) Both are short-tempered and act on whims (Hook shooting a pirate for singing; Queen for decapitating cards for painting her roses red), although the Queen seems to be ruled by her angry whims while Hook can be more logical/calculated; (3) both are most annoyed by being made to look foolish (Hook complains that Peter made him look foolish at the cave with Tiger Lily, the trial started because the Queen was embarrassed by having her underwear shown and falling at the croquet game); (4) both have a literal “losing-their-heads” moment (Hook has his head “cut off” by Smee; the Queen constantly yells at just about everyone with the threat of “Off with their heads”).

    Crocodiles: Again, when I first saw Tick-Tock and heard his song I immediately thought of “How doth the little crocodile improve his shining tail (tale?)…” And the scenes of Tick-Tock trying to eat hook reminded me of the charming animation of the smoke-ring crocodile’s mouth/jaws snapping closed on the smoky little fishies.

    Peter Pan = Cheshire. Once you realize that Peter isn’t Alice (Wendy is the “star” of the film even if it isn’t named for her), it becomes obvious that he’s the Cheshire Cat (see below).


    2. I chose to analyze Peter Pan. As I said, Peter Pan = Cheshire Cat. Interestingly enough, Peter is usually cast as a hero and Chessie is cast as a villain. And neither one is really hero nor villain.

    Both are tricksters more interested in having fun and NOT about thinking of the consequences of their actions. Peter cutting off Hook’s hand (a “childish prank”) and fighting with Hook is reminiscent of Chessie messing with the Queen of Hearts. Both are playing with fire (villains) but neither are really concerned for their safety or see any real danger in these interactions. Neither was really concerned with the dangers that their actions could cause to other characters from the villain (Peter previous actions could get the Lost Boys and the Darlings to walk the plank = die; Chessie could have gotten Alice’s head cut off by tormenting the Queen).

    They also both get the main character into fanciful but possibly dangerous situations and fail to see it or care (Peter takes Wendy to meet the mermaids and doesn’t see a problem with them drying to drown her; Chessie sends Alice to the croquet game to see the Queen).


    3. The scene I chose was the red-man song. It’s hard to ignore. It’s obviously racist and sexist; there’s no way around it. So it does beg the question, what were the animators (Disney) trying to convey here?

    I think it was meant to be “all in fun”, but that doesn’t excuse it. The hand signals made by the chief were silly and demeaning. All of the Indians (except Tiger Lily and the pretty girl) were animated to look the same (men and women) as red with large noses. Is this “red-face”, the Indian equivalent of having white people act how they think blacks (or reds) act? It might be easier to argue that the animators or writers didn’t even notice these stereotypical images if they didn’t animate Tiger Lily as more human, more real, more “white”?

    I can see how some of these images can be justified (adequate or not, your choice) by claiming that this scene and many others in Neverland represent the mind-set of children playing a game. In the red-man song, Peter, the Darlings, and the Lost Boys all imitate the red-men in their dancing and hands-to-mouth hooting, but their intent is not evil or racist—they’re playing a game and having fun (even if it might be at the expense of the red-men). Sometimes, children focus on the broad ideas (stereotypes) and miss the more subtle ideas.


    5. The specific symbol I chose to analyze was all of the female characters together (except perhaps Tiger Lily and Mary?). Just about every female character displays the stereotypes of the worst attributes of women judged by the standards of that day and age.

    Tink is first animated as an overly vain character, looking at her image on the mirror and worrying that she is too “hippy”. Tink is jealous of Wendy (because all women are jealous, right?)—turning red (instead of green??) when Wendy offers to give Peter a kiss in her room and tries to get the Lost Boys to kill her on Peter’s “orders”. When confronted, she plays the “vixen”, giving fake yawns, coy smiles, and smirks when accused of high treason and flying off in a huff when Peter banishes her.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    When Hook realizes that Tink was banished because she tried to kill Wendy, he devises a plan to use Tink’s irrational jealousy to be Peter’s undoing. Hook says, “Ah yes, a jealous female can be tricked into anything.” (Because ALL women are ruled by jealousy and irrationality and NO men are, right?)

    Even Wendy, who is the protagonist of the story, is not immune to the “feminine” attribute of jealousy when Tiger Lily kisses Peter. Thankfully, she didn’t try to kill Tiger Lily and her leaving after the red-man song felt more like her dislike of the Indian woman telling her to get firewood rather than jealousy of Tiger Lily (but why could Tiger Lily dance with the men and Wendy couldn’t??).

    At the mermaid’s lagoon, the mermaids fawned over Peter and he seemed pretty oblivious to it all. When they saw Wendy, they were immediately jealous of the new girl that Peter brought to their lagoon and acted pretty catty (saying “What’s she doing here?” “And in her night dress too?”—REALLY?!?—‘Cause you’re all in nothing but bras or starfish over your breasts. Judge much?) and tried to pull her into the water, splash her, and drown her. Peter’s oblivious and the mermaids coquettishly say, “We were only trying to drown her”. —And welcome to the Real Housewives of Neverland… (another franchise that plays to the catty stereotypes of women).

    Finally, The red-women in the red-man scene were really just props, there to make a joke about mothers-in-law (young woman pretty, old woman ugly) or to tell Wendy to get firewood (women keeping other women in their place).


    8. Besides the obvious progression of Alice in Wonderland to Peter Pan, the other issue that comes up is the progression of racist depictions in Disney films.

    Dumbo (which I didn’t watch recently) clearly depicts less-than-admirable images of blacks in the form of the crows (I mean, Jim CrowREALLY?). Then, of course, there’s Song of the South (which I haven’t seen recently either), and its depiction of “all’s right in the world with black-and-white relations right after the Civil War”. Then, there’s Peter Pan and its depiction of Native Americans (and next week: Lady & the Tramp with “The Siamese Cat Song” and the wonderful accents that Si & Am were given…).

    It IS interesting that South of the South is the pariah of Disney for its racist dealings, but Dumbo and Peter Pan are welcomed with open arms and not a lot of rationalizing about it being “a sign of the times” (now maybe I have missed these rationalizations…).

    So, what makes one movie offensive and another acceptable? Are there objective standards that I don’t know about? Is it just the backlash the fans/critics of the movies are willing to express (i.e., we as viewers decide we’re OK with Dumbo and Peter Pan)? Is it that there are other endearing or iconic images/characters in these movies that we like (Dumbo, Timothy Mouse; Peter, Wendy, Tink, Hook) enough to ignore the rest? Obviously, I don’t have the answers here and I’m as guilty as everyone else (Si & Am are my #2 collection behind Stitch, and not because of their accents! I have always had Siamese cats as pets, and I choose to ignore the accents when I collect pins because they don’t talk. Talking pins… Ooh, brand new idea! Better run off and patent it!).


    9. I agree with several others. The Big Ben scene seems the most iconic of this film to me, an image that just screams Peter Pan (1953).

    [​IMG]

    10. I picked this pin (54217) because to me, this film depicts Wendy’s acceptance of growing up. Of all of the Wendy pins I found, this one best depicts her in her grown-up persona. Accepting fate, and walking the plank, instead of joining Hook and his pirates.

    Pin 54217 DLR - Peter Pan's Flight - Wendy Walking the Plank

    [​IMG]
     
  16. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

    Rating - 100%
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    I just got home after having to stay late at work, Le sigh...
     
  17. sbmpins

    sbmpins Pin Trader

    Rating - 100%
    73   0   0

    1) I feel pretty neutral for this movie. It's not that I didn't like it, but I also can't imagine thinking I want to make tge effort to find the DVD and walk it to the player to watch it again. I don't remember seeing it before but I did find the ride at WDW covered the movie pretty well. Maybe that's my problem. Why did it take 77 minutes when it could be covered in 2 and a half. I did find myself liking Smee more than I expected. Wendy was less annoying than I expected. And I was shocked that the portrayal of Indians hadn't raised a fuss as large as Song of the South. At least if it had, I'm not aware of it.

    3) When Peter sends Tinker bell to take the Darlings to the Lost boys, she purposefully outflys them and actually gets the boys to attack Wendy. I was appalled by how Tinker bell did not hide that she wanted Wendy dead. She could've been jealous without a blatant deathwish! After hook shooting a guy for singing, now Tink proud of her murder attempt, I was really surprised to see this in a 65 year old disney kids movie. On the other hand, the animation for Tink through this scene was gorgeous. Her light shining through the leaf and her anger relayed through her change to red were both breathtaking, especially when I consider the hand drawn techniques required at the time.

    4) I mentioned the Indians portrayal in my overview. I found the song very humorous but could easily see how it could be offensive. I had to look up the lyrics to really know what was said but the visuals alone made the song fun. Speaking of visuals, actually using red for the skin of the Indians was bold too.

    5) I've never been great at symbolism so I tend to go toward the obvious. For me, that would be the clocks. There's the clock in the croc that haunts Hook and Smee. Chasing Hook to remind him that his time is approaching. Again a clock is used in the bomb given to Peter by Hook to try to end his life. Clocks are death. Maybe that's why I've weaned myself off my wristwatch. Lol

    8) I mentioned not liking Brunos treatment in Cinderella. Wow. He was treated as a prince cvompared to Nana. She cared for the children. Showed perseverance and obviously had the love and devotion of all of the children and what does it get her? Tied to a rope out in the yard. Why do people have dogs to leave them chained outside? If you don't want a dog, don't get one! Not that it really was a big deal in the movie, it just hits a hot button for me personally.

    10) this set of pins I just acquired really represents the film for me. The main characters, flying which suggests the level if fantasy portrayed in the film.

    [​IMG]


    Sidenote - why are Peter's ears pointed like an elf?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  18. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

    Rating - 100%
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    Probably waking up in an hour or so. ;)

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     
  19. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

    Rating - 100%
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    For some reason, I can't post picture links so I'll update when I am able to.

    1. Overall impression.
    Like many of the Early Features, this one seems to have not as aged gracefully as it could have but it does have its merits. As a parent, I had to be careful watching this with the kids as the demeanor of Hook in the film is far mor sinister and ruthless then his Disney Jr Counterpart. Westerns were popular during the 50's so the cowboy/Indians vibe from that period is very heavy here-you cannot get away with such cultural insensitivity today. Peter Pan's Flight is one that I remember the ride first before watching the movie as a kid. My fondest memory of it was flying over the forced perspective of London before being transported to Neverland. Overall I rate it a 3.5 stars

    4. Music Analysis
    "You can fly" is probably the song that comes to mind when people think of this film. As people are suggesting rehashes of Alice in Wonderland in the film, I can't help thinking how similar it is to the title song of Alice in Wonderland. It's similarity in structure and choir direction is striking.

    8. Progression
    TinkerBelle's use of color to symbolize her feelings is a progression we see from past works that also work with her design. As she is essentially mute to the audience, her body language is how we perceive her. The few cases of color such her use of turning red(anger) and turning green from going behind a leaf(envy) let us understand her beyond just with her actions.

    9. Best Iconic Shot
    The Clockface of Big Ben has to be probably the most Iconic shot from this movie; it's even recreated in Peter Pan 2, Tinkerbelle 3, Kingdom Hearts, and Phantasmic to name a few...

    10. Best Representative pin
    The hidden Mickey below recreated the iconic Shot above.
    Pin 89721 WDW - 2011 Hidden Mickey Completer Pin - United Kingdom Collection - Peter Pan Clock Face (PWP)
     
  20. NutMeg

    NutMeg The Nefarious N.M.G.

    Rating - 100%
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    1.) Overall Impression:

    This is a particularly interesting analysis for me due to my personal history with the film, and with Barrie's Peter Pan in general. This was actually one of my absolute favorite movies as a kid, as evidenced by my Tick Tock Croc stuffed animal! I can actually remember picking him out at the Disney Store when I was like 5. He's the reason why crocodiles are one of my favorite animals to this day. He's menacing and cute at the same time, and has the most badass theme music. (Note to self: do not start a Tick Tock collection!)

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, despite my original fondness for this film, I definitely became disillusioned with it as I got older (perhaps that's only fitting for a story about the eventual loss of childhood innocence?) It's not like there was some specific turning point where I re-watched the film and suddenly picked up on all of the flaws - in fact, I can't even remember the last time I watched it, until now - but when certain movies are such a big part of your early childhood development, they definitely get ingrained in your memory in a way you never really shake. So it was more of a gradual process of reflecting back on it over the years and seeing it in a different light. The characters started to sour and became far less likable, and the racism and misogyny became more and more unbearable.

    Yet there's something about Peter Pan that just resonates with me on some subconscious level that I can't even fully understand. There isn't one particular version of the story that I prefer - I'm actually still waiting for the truly "definitive" interpretation, as I think even the original play/novel has many flaws that could be improved upon, and no subsequent retelling has really nailed it. But the mythology is just so rich and unique, and the thematic content so emotionally stirring, I can't help but have a soft spot for it. I think Barrie really hit upon the tragic underbelly of childhood, and the fleeting nature of youth, in a way that no other author has been able to capture quite so poetically. The themes are subtle, and the darkness is balanced by the wondrous imagination of the story (this childlike wonder in itself makes the tragedy all the more poignant.)

    Disney's Peter Pan eliminates much of that darkness (it is Disney, after all), throws in a hefty load of broad comedy, and slaps a cartoonish candy coating over the whole thing. But looking at the movie now, as an adult in the midst of a film degree, I admit I was impressed with how well-made this film actually is. The animation is vivid and beautiful; the script is focused and streamlined (relative to the original play/novel, which meanders a bit); the music is catchy and effectively atmospheric; the tone is consistent; the pacing is steady; the editing is some of the best we've seen yet (although many of the comedic sequences could've been trimmed, imo); and the direction is quite superb. For example, I especially loved the construction of Wendy's "walk the plank" scene. It would've been so easy (and obvious) to give Peter the big heroic moment of swooping in to save her, but that would've completely cut all tension from the scene. Peter's absence, followed by the mystified reaction of the pirates after not hearing a splash (a reaction which is presented BEFORE we actually see Peter holding Wendy), manages to cleverly create a decent amount of suspense in a climax that is ultimately pretty straightforward and predictable.

    2.) Character Analysis - Peter:

    Peter Pan - somehow the heartthrob of Neverland, desired by every female human, mermaid, and fairy on the island:

    [​IMG]

    Peter is certainly an intentionally flawed character in the original text, but I think Disney's interpretation of him is probably the most obnoxious and grating of any adaptation (or at least the ones I've seen.) It's difficult to parse how much of his smug, snot-faced persona is meant to be deliberately unlikable, and how much is intended to simply be "boyish charm." And yes, his sex is integral to the character.

    Although there are very few intrinsic differences between boys and girls, they are socialized in entirely different ways. While girls are of course capable of bad behavior, politeness/etiquette tends to be much more heavily emphasized in their upbringing. They are encouraged to be modest, soft-spoken, poised, and "ladylike." By contrast, there is the long-held, unhealthy mentality that "boys will be boys," or that bad behavior is an inherent (and excusable) aspect of male development. Getting into trouble, starting fights, pulling on girls' pigtails ("aw, he must like her!"), and breaking rules are supposedly all just natural parts of their growth. People often say that girls mature faster than boys, which I think is generally accurate, but not because of any biological truism; it's just because boys are frequently allowed to mature at a much slower rate. And Peter Pan is the ultimate embodiment of this. After all, he even spawned the term "Peter Pan syndrome," a pop-psychology diagnosis for emotionally stunted man-children.

    The gender-based components of Peter's characterization are most obvious when examined in contrast with Wendy, who is wise beyond her years. Despite Mr. Darling's insistence that she must "finally" grow up, Wendy is, in fact, already extremely mature from the very start of the film. She's responsible and sensible, insisting that she should plan for the trip to Neverland and leave a note for her mother, and displays a highly developed sense of ethics. Despite the fact that Tink had literally just attempted to murder her, Wendy still comes to her defense and convinces Peter not to banish her permanently. She even urges him to spare Captain Hook's life, crying out "not like this!" just as he's about to step on Hook's hand in the cave and make him croc bait. There is a distinctly gendered component to her characterization as well, as she becomes the surrogate mother to the Lost Boys, and even her own brothers, who eventually begin to forget their real mother. This aspect is also noteworthy: Wendy's brothers are quick to slip into the Peter Pan syndrome that infects every young boy on the island, and even begin emulating Peter's dismissive attitude toward their sister. On the other hand, Wendy remains resistant to this uniquely male mentality.

    This could all potentially be a fascinating commentary on toxic masculinity, but 1950's Disney certainly isn't up for that challenge. Again, it's tough to determine how much of Peter's selfishness, arrogance, and chauvinistic treatment of women is supposed to be endearing. I think to most of us, it seems obvious that condescending lines such as "girls talk too much" can only serve to disgust the audience. But again, there is that "boys will be boys" mentality that exists to this day - and in 1953?? It's almost impossible to imagine the original audience not laughing off that line. "Oh, that Peter's such a scamp! And Wendy is a chatterbox, bless her heart!" I can picture the same reaction to the way Peter callously dumps Wendy for Tiger Lily. "Oh, what a tomcat! Boys will be boys!" But what convinced me most that Disney must have been completely tone-deaf when it came to Peter was his final sword fight with Hook, who baits him into agreeing not to fly by insulting his masculinity. Never mind that his friends' lives are in his hands, his macho pride comes first. This scene is Disney's own invention, and it's obvious they considered it to actually be a redeeming moment for his character, intended to show that he has the integrity to keep his word (unlike Hook.) And sure, keeping your word is an admirable quality, but why make the "no flying" deal in the first place?? Risking your friends' lives just so you can prove your manhood is nowhere near heroic. It's just more of his selfishness at work.

    Imo, the darker elements of the original text are simply integral to making Peter a layered character - one who is unlikable in many ways, but ultimately still worthy of empathy. For instance, in Barrie's play/novel, Peter recalls returning from Neverland to visit his mother's window, only to realize that she has forgotten about him and that a new son has taken his place. This creates his hatred of adults. With this revelation alone, Peter suddenly becomes a much more tragic and complex character. Without it, he's just an egotistical brat.

    Continued below...
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  21. NutMeg

    NutMeg The Nefarious N.M.G.

    Rating - 100%
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    2.) Character Analysis - Neverland Natives:

    Soooo yeah, I don't think I need to get too deep into this one, because the racism here is just so in your face. Good God, it's bad. Disney buried Song of the South, but they haven't reckoned with this steaming heap of bigotry?? The Natives are hunted like animals by the Lost Boys, and John describes them as if he's explaining the habits of some exotic breed of wildlife, even equating tribes to categories of genus (he looks at the dark footprint and concludes that they must be Blackfoot, which I guess is supposed to be funny.) Yet the kids still want to throw on warbonnets and paint their faces like white people at Coachella, which I guess is a perfect representation of real-life racism.

    In terms of design alone, the Native "characters" (if you can call them that) are pure caricature. Their skin doesn't resemble any human shade, but is literally beet red - pretty much the equivalent of giving animated Asian characters banana yellow skin. Many of the Natives aren't even given eyes, but rather tiny slits - and the characters that do have them are cartoonishly bug-eyed:

    [​IMG]

    Something I thought was particularly telling was the fact that the only two Natives who aren't depicted as literal "redskins" are Tiger Lily and this buxom babe:

    [​IMG]

    These two women are supposed to be attractive, so they're spared from the caricature inflicted upon the others, and are actually somewhat humanized. Even still, Tiger Lily is never actually allowed to speak; she starts to cry "help!" when she's drowning, but it turns into an indiscernible gurgle. That's her only line in the entire movie, and she doesn't even get to finish it. The only Native who does actually speak (aside from the background singers in "What Makes the Red Man Red") is the Chief, and he's still given a crude speech pattern. Native language is constantly mocked and trivialized, and in fact the entire "Red Man" song is pretty much one big joke at its expense. The gibberish phrase "Hana Mana Ganda" is repeatedly chanted, and at one point translated: "Hana means what Mana means, and Ganda means that too." So essentially, Native languages are nonsense, and it's all the same thing. This plays into the demeaning historic misconception that Natives are a single monolith (for the record, there are around 150 different Native American and First Nations languages still spoken today, and who knows how many more that were wiped out long ago due to cultural genocide.)

    Also, did anyone spot this on Hook's map? Yikes.

    [​IMG]

    9.) Iconic Shot:

    I was trying to find a shot of Peter and the Darlings flying over London, but when you examine the flying sequences frame-by-frame, they don't have quite the same effect...

    [​IMG]

    I can understand why the animators cut corners and spared details here, since the frame rate is much faster in this sequence. And in motion, the scene looks great. But as far as individual shots go, I'm gonna have to go with this stunning vista:

    [​IMG]

    10.) Best Pin:

    I'm partial to pin #31903, which invites you on an adventure to the magical world of Neverland. I think the postcard format is a really effective way to encapsulate the overall feel of the film without having to single out one particular scene/element.

    [​IMG]

    Honorable mention goes to #126173; I'm not really a fan of hinged pins, but I like this one:

    [​IMG]

    Stray thoughts...

    • Hook is kind of a paradox to me. He definitely plays into the homophobic "foppish villain" trope, kicking off a Disney tradition that would later be echoed in characters like Jafar and General Ratcliffe. But he's also kind of a badass. He goes from casually shooting a member of his crew just for singing, to jumping into Smee's arms when Tick Tock arrives. I guess Disney just wanted to have its cake and eat it too?
    • I'm not sure if Kathryn Beaumont's singing for Alice was intentionally poor (since her character's voice is supposed to pale in comparison to the flowers), or if she was taking vocal lessons in between films, but her singing is lovely here. She has a gorgeous vibrato.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  22. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    *rings bell* Last call for Peter Pan!
     
  23. NutMeg

    NutMeg The Nefarious N.M.G.

    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0

    Great point about her silence being an active choice! I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was taken aback by her one garbled line, haha (I try not to read other analyses before writing my own to avoid being influenced, so it's always fun to discover someone else is on the same wavelength!)

    I would definitely be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
     
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  24. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

    Rating - 100%
    262   0   0

    I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.
     
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  25. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

    Rating - 100%
    491   0   0

    Just a reminder that we have our first D52 chat tonight starting at 6pm EST, so that's in a little over an hour. :) hope you guys can make it!!

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     

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