The Disney 52 Animated Challenge: Year-Long Activity - NOW PLAYING: Wreck-It Ralph AND Frozen

Discussion in 'DPF Game Room' started by MerlinEmrys, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

    Rating - 100%
    262   0   0

    First up: Aristocats

    1. If I had to sum up this movie in one word, it would be charming. It has a light, lyrical quality to it (which matches the graceful movement of a cat). The majority of the characters are likeable, even the typically "annoying" characters such as the geese. Even the scarier parts, like when the cats wake up in the rain and realize they have been kidnapped, don't last very long before the mood lightens up again.

    However, this film does have a few drawbacks. Because everyone is so sweet, the villain lacked depth. His reasoning for getting rid of the cats was pretty petty - basically the cats got the money first (which he would have had control over anyway as the cats' caretaker) and then he would get everything afterwards.u78888888888888888888xdfxxxx (I felt the need to leave this in, because my cat walked across the keyboard as I was typing.) Not only is his reasoning petty, but the point of getting rid of the cats was to cash in on her will. As far as we can tell, she was in wonderful health and could live for quite a few years more, so getting rid of the cats now would have been pointless (either he would be found out, the cats would be found, or she would adopt more cats). And just driving them out of town is pretty ineffectual. He could have easily had them killed rather than just dumped.

    Also, the majority of racial stereotypes were tamped down (Scat Cat was voiced by a black man, at least, and most of the rest didn't go much beyond having an accent), except for Shun Gon. He was given slanted eyes and buck teeth, spoke in very pronounced "Engrish" where the other alley cats had accented proper English (and he was voiced by PAUL WINCHELL of all people, so much like the monkeys in Jungle Book, it was a very deliberate choice to have him talk like that), wears a cymbal as a conical hat, and plays the piano with chopsticks. I believe I read somewhere that he was based off of Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's, so if that is true he is a caricature of a racist caricature.


    2. I chose Madam Bonfamille (literally "good family" in French), the most amazing cat lady ever. Serious #CATLADYGOALS!

    [​IMG]

    It's important to note that this is the first time we've seen an older female character in a position of power who was not a villain or a magical being. She's simply a lovely old woman who loves her cats. She is rich and famous (opera performer), but is still kind to everyone around her, humans and animals alike. From her interactions with Georges and Edgar, we can see that she treats everyone as her equals, and the way Georges talks with her you can tell that she is adored as well.

    It would have been easy to make her into the archetypal Crazy Cat Lady, or to make her villainous (with Duchess' motivation to get home simply due to her and the kittens being comfortable with their living situation and not because of love for her). Disney did right by her by not going down these usual roads.


    8. The animation recycling I didn't notice quite as much from this movie, though there are moments (like Toulouse's "fffttt"ing and licking his mouth used multiple times throughout, and Dutchess' dancing being used later on for Marian).

    Much more than animation recycling, the story rehashing was highly noticeable. As unibear wrote, this film is basically Lady and the Tramp with cats. High-class female character starts with a loving family, then gets tossed into a situation where she is away from said family. She meets up with a charming streetwise stray who does not trust humans but helps her get back to her home (and along the way she meets a ragtag group of the stray's friends with a musical number). She runs into trouble back home, and he comes back to save the day. Finally, he puts aside his distrust of humans and becomes part of the family.

    I think between the two, Lady and the Tramp tells this story more effectively. The stakes seem higher, and Lady seems a bit more fish-out-of-water than Dutchess does. The conflict of Tramp not trusting humans is more pronounced than with O'Malley (and we actually know why he does not like them). However, while the story has regressed a bit, I think the artwork has improved, especially the character design. They absolutely NAILED the facial expressions!

    9. At its core, this film is about family, and the lengths that one will go to for the ones they love. The cats and Madam Bonfamille love each other deeply, and O'Malley loves Dutchess and the kittens. The final shot of their family portrait captures all of that perfectly.

    [​IMG]

    10.

    [​IMG]

    Pin# 61784 - DisneyShopping.com - Aristocats Family Portrait Disney Classics Jumbo Pin

    This pin perfectly captures the spirit of the family portrait, while also including a bit of the kittens' personalities.

    RANDOM THOUGHTS

    ~ I loved the animation for the most part, though sometimes it went a bit...wonky, especially for Dutchess:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    ~ I adore Roquefort! This movie is very hard for me to pick a favorite character, though it's probably Berlioz and Toulouse by a hair (I love the sibling dynamic and they remind me a lot of my own siblings and I). But you can't deny how much you just want to reach in and hug this little guy (he works so hard! Plus he makes a very cunning precursor to Basil in this outfit!)

    [​IMG]

    ~ CRIMINIDDLY!!!! Lafayette said criminiddly! I wonder if they had the Sheriff use that expression in Robin Hood as a nod to Pat Buttram's performance here in Aristocats?
     
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  2. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

    Rating - 100%
    262   0   0

    Next - Bedknobs and Broomsticks

    1. I hadn't seen this in many years, so it was wonderful to watch it again. I mostly remembered the scene on Naboombo, people turning into rabbits, and Substitutiary Locomotion. I forgot the entire storyline about the Nazis!

    NAZI FACEPUNCH!

    [​IMG]

    I actually love that Eglantine and Emelius don't end up together in the end. While they did come to care for each other, I think that the ending was more fitting for their characters, though I'd have loved to see a follow-up featurette of Emelius going through basic training to see just how much he would screw with his CO.....

    It's wonderful to see Angela Lansbury in a starring (singing) role! I grew up on Murder She Wrote, and have seen Beauty and the Beast many times, so Angela was a sizable part of my childhood. She was very well suited for the role. The child actors were also very impressive, especially considering how much they were given to do in the film. (Charlie reminded me a bit of Edmund from the Narnia series, though).


    7. The overall goal in the film is to teach that nobody is perfect and that to get good at something requires patience and practice. I think the film succeeded in this, and did so in a humorous manner which will help us remember. Starting with the first time Eglantine tried to transform someone into a toad and she got a rabbit.


    8. Obviously the best film to compare this to is Mary Poppins, with the blending of live action and animation (and the use of David Tomlinson). It was much more seamless this time around. The green screen effects weren't nearly as jarring, and the interaction between animated and live action characters throughout the entire Naboombu scene was seamless. The practical effects were stunning; the sheer amount of moving armor during the battle scene was very impressive. Overall the studio improved immensely. I look forward to Roger Rabbit week - I think Roger Rabbit is the next film Disney made using the live/animation blend, if I'm not mistaken - to see if the improvements continued (I've seen it but it was such a long time ago that I'm not really able to compare the two off the top of my head).

    Between the two characters, I prefer Eglantine over Mary Poppins. While Mary is "practically perfect in every way," that doesn't really lend itself to a character arc, and she leaves in the same state as when she came. However, in Eglantine's case, she is shown as a flawed individual who has to learn and to practice (and ways to cope with her deficits, like keeping the notebook of her spells to help with her forgetfulness). She grows throughout the film, and her successes feel more like accomplishments compared to Mary just doing things that she is already capable of.

    I also feel that the movie itself is a bit better than Mary Poppins. The individual scenes seem to have more of a defined throughline, whereas in Mary Poppins sometimes it seemed as if they put in a scene just to show off their effects.


    9.
    [​IMG]

    This shot really stands out to me. It's the culmination of all her hard work learning her spells and gaining confidence in her abilities. She went from an unsure witch apprentice to the leader of an army against the Nazis, her ultimate goal in taking the course.

    NAZI FACEPUNCH!

    [​IMG]

    Plus that tiny flag at the end of her broom is AWESOME.


    10. Slim pickings for these pins! I really wanted a pin of Eglantine on her broom, but none exist, at least according to Pinpics. So, I chose the closest thing - the flying bed.

    [​IMG]

    Pin# 640 - DS - Countdown to the Millennium Series #87 (Bedknobs and Broomsticks)


    RANDOM THOUGHTS

    ~ How bag WAS that museum? There were enchanted suits of armor stretching for DAYS at the start of the battle! Where were they all kept?

    ~ Ug, the vicar was creepy. I know that was kind of the point of him, but his character really seemed extraneous. He didn't really do anything with the information he may have gotten about her, and once he sees his hat fly off and back onto his head, he's raced out of the area, and we never see or hear from him again.

    ~ NAZI FACEPUNCH!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  3. slbrabham

    slbrabham Well-Known Member

    Rating - 100%
    38   0   0

    Aristocats Analysis

    1.) Overall Impressions
    The Aristocats was a good movie. It reminded me of several earlier films so I kept thinking the writers picked successful plot points from earlier films and rehashed them since Walt Disney himself had passed.
    My favorite part of the film and probably the most unique to this film was the sibling relationship among the kittens. 101 Dalmatians had animal siblings, but the sheer number of them made it difficult to develop realistic relationships on screen. Each kitten had a distinct personality with unique interests. They acted like human siblings but in an animal way. The kittens rolled around on the ground fighting each other in a playful manner.

    The villain was very weak so I never felt the cats were in danger. Edgar had motivation- greed, but he was inept. He wasn't even inept in the extreme were it became funny - Captain Hook. Where Captain Hook made an elaborate plan that failed, Edgar messed up dumping sleeping house cats.

    Madame was showed as a charming, nice lady. I felt bad for her when she realized the cats were missing. The love she showed for Duchess when she was talking with her attorney made her desperation at the disappearance more real. The cats were her family, and she loved them.
    [​IMG]

    It was an enjoyable film that was fun to watch.

    2.) Character Analysis
    Duchess was a smart lady and a good mother. She got O'Malley to help them reach Paris.
    [​IMG]
    When she looked sad, O'Malley decided to help the whole family. He had originally promised to help Duchess return to Paris when he thought her alone. He changed his mind and helped the entire family. [​IMG]
    8.) Connections and Progressions
    This film reused some plot points from earlier films - kidnapped animals (101 Dalmatians) and upper class lady v lower class male (Lady and the Tramp). I thought they made these choices as they were safe.
    The voice cast had some familiar names, but I enjoyed it.

    9.) Iconic Scene
    [​IMG]

    After Duchess and the kittens meet O'Malley's friends, she and O'Malley view Paris from the roof of his attic pad as the kittens watch. This shot showed the growing closeness between O'Malley and Duchess.

    10.) Pin Representation
    PP16858

    [​IMG]

    This pin showed the kittens spying in O'Malley and their mother as the two older kittens talk. The little hearts showed the growing feelings between the adult cats.

    Stray Thoughts:
    1.) Where was the kittens' father?

    2.) Did the lawyer (Georges) remind anyone else of Mr. Toad? [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    3.) How does a goose become drunk?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0

    I just got home so I will sit down later this afternoon to write up both analysises. I actually never saw aristocats in full till this past week and bedknobs and broomsticks was a favorite as a kid as it was on tv a lot...
     
  5. pincrazy

    pincrazy Well-Known Member

    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0

    A Cat Film!!!:p
    1) Overall, and I'm guessing it's because I've been watching Disney films back to back, it's Cute but missing something. Animation of architecture and backdrops reminds me of 101 Dalmations style, colorful and detailed of other films prior, but maybe it's the story or the characters?
    If the opening hadn't said Paris 1910, I wouldn't have thought about the location, which brings up does it matter? None of the characters were particularly French, other than the architecture or random designs within Madame's house. Just overall it seems to depart from a classic storytelling signature of Disney. It's the 70s so maybe this was time for revamping and updating to current ideas, times are a changing? Just seemed sad it's based on an older weathy woman, living fulfilled with her cats, but maybe that's what you did in Paris in the early 1900s?

    3) The scene and song sequence for Everbody wants to be a Cat, is fun, 70ish, even with the psychedelic artwork, But it's very stereotyped, and I think pushing the timeframe too much. The sequence is long and intermixes an assortment of music styles, artwork , and ideas but other than a title with a double insinuation, it's mostly an explosion of art, colors,.lighting, and jazzy tones.

    4)The typical Disney sing a long song would be Scales and Arpeggios, it's about learning, and well animated, very cute.

    5) The symbol I picked is THE WILL, which seems to bring out the worst in people! It's what makes Edgar go from deceptively nice to wanting to get rid of Duchess and kittens, and yet in the ending Madame thinks if only Edgar knew he was in the WILL. Hmmm which is what caused his downfall to begin with, making this a Disney ending with innocence corrected by karma.

    10) Although I wasn't crazy bout the song sequence, I like how the pins captured the moment, pin #40923!
    GO CATS!
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  6. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

    Rating - 100%
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    The same way an elephant can! ;) He was supposed to be the goose on the menu “basted in white wine.” I guess he got to the wine first!
     
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  7. slbrabham

    slbrabham Well-Known Member

    Rating - 100%
    38   0   0

    Ok. Thanks.
     
  8. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
    51   0   0

    I disagree with this sentiment. She had no living relatives, and she shared her love with her pets. What was she supposed to do, commit suicide or live a life of misery and melancholy since she had no children or grandchildren? I also think it's a nod to "Lilo & Stitch" that even though some might view her ohana to be broken, it was still good!

    I didn't find it sad at all; I found it heart-warming!
     
  9. PixiePost

    PixiePost Previously SoraPandora

    Rating - 100%
    145   0   0

    I am not a big fan of this movie, but Madame Adelaide is goals.

    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  10. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0

    Data isn't loading too well so I will type now and put in pictures later. So here are two films that were given approval/development status right up until Walt Disney past away. Of course being in development at the same time meant a bit of Easter eggs between the two.

    AristoCats
    1. Overall Impression
    As I was watching this, I couldn't help but think that this was a inverted version of 101 Dalmatians; replace London with Paris and the dogs with the feline family and you have pretty much a similar movie albeit one with a lesser danger protocol. I thought the animation was pretty standard/okay due to the use of the Xerox process, though some parts, such as madams hair, looked like not much attention was paid to it as it looked shoddily animated/sketched. The music is great and similarly uses the Jazz style music from previous films. Not the greatest movie Disney has but it's certainly not it's least. The setting of 1910 makes sense that this occurs pre-World War Europe, though the use of contemporary jazz instead of earlier style makes it a bit hard to connect it to that era.

    2. Character Analysis
    If we analyze the kittens names, they are representative of their behaviors/hobbies. Toulouse, after the French impressionist painter Henri de Toulouse Lautrec, is very much a budding artist. Berlioz, after the French Composer Hector Berlioz, is a talented pianist(for a cat). Marie, after the French monarch Marie Antoinette, is very much a lady in training.

    3. Scene Analysis
    The Everybody wants to be a cat scene is very fun and active but as everyone has pointed out full of stereotypes(Russian, Mexican, Chinese, etc). I recall in my Chinese History class that Chinoiserie was very prevalent in impressionist France but this is more a reference to the ching chang stereotype found in movies/television at that time.

    8. Progressions
    The Geese, Abigail and Amelia, seem to be a continuation of theme of twins found in the previous film Mary Poppins, which also use the Blue/Pink Color Scheme. Going off of the Xerox copy process, Madam also seems to share a silhouette resemblance to Lady Tremaine. Many scenes seem reused from previous films such as Napoleon's hearing compared to the captain from 101 Dalmatians.

    9. Iconic Scene.
    Like many of you, I think that the idea of the iconic scene would have to be from The Everybody Wants to Be A Cat sequence, this seems to be marketed as the defacto song from this film.

    10. Representative pin
    Pin# 56415 - DisneyShopping.com - The Aristocats Jumbo Pin

    Spare Thoughts
    1) The reference of the bed being used as a flying carpet is a sure tie in to the next film, Bedknobs and Broomsticks.
    2) Hector Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique's 5th movement is about the dream of a witches Sabbath, which he used to get an actress he fancied to notice him, suffice to say the relationship was short lived.
    3) For being a French/British setting the butler thinks of dollars instead of francs/pounds? Much of Paris is also outlined in English language instead of French...

    Bedknobs and Broomsticks
    1.Overall Impression.
    After watching this with nostalgia glasses, I went ahead and rewatched this film with an open mind and wasn't disappointed with this under appreciated film. I feel that plotwise and technical effects, it improved upon the prior cartoon/liveaction mashup, Mary Poppins, even garnering it's own Oscar win in technical special effects. The special effects of the movie set pieces are phenomenal for the time before CGI and cartoon effects are more seamless then with Mary Poppins. Regardless that it is lengthy(2 1/2 hours), I felt it paced well and doesn't lag as badly as the former. The music is overall catchy and the full British cast bring this story to life with. The plot and setting is also more moving as you have orphans evacuated from everything they have ever known to a countryside during the children evacuations of WW2. Angela Lansbury is phenomenal in her role as Ms. Price and we see the return of David Thomlinson as Professor Browne.

    I love the intro credits which is Remeniscent of medieval artwork or the book of kells. They even represent the the credits of the appropriately with film's music/song writers, choreographers, and story writers represented as medieval musicians, dancers, and luminaries.

    2. Character Analysis
    Emelius Browne is shown more as a charlatan and opportunist when we first meet him. Up until that point you think of his character as the great wizard of Oz, who knows more knowledge that could help Egletine Price fulfill her goals and then some. Unfortunately you realize he is only able to sustain a career by swindling customers with cheap magic tricks and taking advantage of an evacuation order from the London Blitz. In actuality he doesn't even believe himself capable of making a difference in the grand scheme of things. While he is a culpable salesman, His disbelief in magic or his own skills results in him bumbling many of his own tricks. Altering the words to many of the spells is do to thinking it was more marketable may/may not have resulted in Ms Price's trouble with spells. By the end of the film, he has redeemed himself, enlisting in the army in hopes of creating a true difference in the war.

    4. Song Analysis
    A Step in the Right Dirdction was actually a deleted song that was the inspiration for the expanded cut that came out in the early 2000's. As the story goes, Disney executives were unhappy with the length of the film forcing the studio to cut a significant chunk from the finished movie, this song included. The song starts at the moment Ms. Price opens her broom package; it is actually quite similar to another theme from the Carousel of Progress, A Great Big Beautiful Tommorow. You can still hear the theme throughout the film even though the song itself was removed.

    5. Symbolism
    Similar to the Philosophers Stone in Harry Potter, the Star of Asteroth, was a mystical medallion which was in itself very hard to retrieve resulting in the injury/near death of professor Brown. In actuality, it was also easy goal to find or achieve had they asked their youngest companion.

    8. Progressions,
    This does a great job of improving the live action/cartoon mash up found in the previous films Song of the South and Mary a Poppins. A similar aspect is that two girls in blue/pink approach Emelius on Portobello Road, I feel that this may be a precursor to the bimbettes in the later Beauty and the Beast.

    9. Iconic Scene
    The main party of Ms Price and company on the bed as a transportation ride is the most iconic still from this film.

    10. Representative Pin.
    Pin 92211 DSF - Beloved Tales - Bedknobs and Broomsticks.
    Just one of the the very few pins that showcase a flying bed...

    Stray thoughts
    1) First curse word in a early Disney film? Charlie uses the word Bloody as an adjective.
    2) In the Portobello Road Sequence, Toulouse is referenced as on the painters whose works that is being sold
    3)As with Disney's fasination with Wizards/witches owning Skulls, the introduction artwork has Cosmic Creepers on top of a skull.
    4) I small curious what version of the movie has everyone saw for the review, standard or extended?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  11. pincrazy

    pincrazy Well-Known Member

    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0

    Sorry it was harsh of me to state it that way, I was hoping for a more in depth storyline. The charity from Madame comes through in the end with making a Foundation. Her love for her pets are endearing, and there's nothing more rewarding than love from a pet! I just recalled the movie differently and sadly was frustrated reviewing it through fresh eyes. Thanks for your viewpoint......:stitch:
     
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  12. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

    Rating - 100%
    491   0   0

    Just got back from a week-long trip and a 12 hour car ride, so forgive me for being a little short on content. XD I took very few notes on Aristocats because I just didn’t see much in the film :/

    1. Overall Impression
    While I was familiar with the general plot and characters of the film, I basically didn’t remember much from seeing it as a child. However, while others from this Xerox period held up well enough, I don’t think this one did very well. The animation was so sketchy it was distracting. You saw it real bad in Madame’s hair. The plot was fairly vanilla, without much drama to really keep me engaged. And so much of the humor was sight gags that it felt almost like a Scooby Doo cartoon. :/ The characters are fun, but the movie holistically just didn’t do it for me.


    2. Character Analysis

    Edgar was perhaps the worst part of the film. He was bumbling as to be annoying and utterly incompetent. It didn’t help that the resolution revealed that he did it all for nothing. But his interactions with Lafayette and Napoleon just screamed slapstick sight gags that now read unoriginal and clumsy. But even without considering it from a modern perspective, the humor was so different from previous films that it just didn’t work for me. Alas.


    3. Scene Analysis / 8. Film Progression
    The ending sequence was so so strange… The way it went in this strange meta direction was off-putting for me, especially since it just recycled an already old joke from the film:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    There’s a deft way to handle meta stuff in animated films—typically nothing more than a camera take or casual comment on films or something like that. But this felt more like a cheap way to wrap up an otherwise decent ending. There was no need to involve the geese again or the dogs as it not only didn’t make sense logically for the plot, but it was just a tacky ending.

    Even the “QUIET” gag was tired. :/ The humor just didn’t do it for me…


    6. Dialog Analysis
    When one of the kittens said “Well, we almost had a father,” I suddenly got attached. It was a heavy moment that gave the film some meat and I wish they had leaned on it just a bit more. While the kittens all had strong, unique personality, I think this would have added a bit more to their family’s “character” if that makes sense.


    9. Iconic Shot
    I think it’s got to be from “Everybody Wants to be a Cat”. Hahah! It’s basically the only part of the film that gets remembered—the characters (re: Marie) tend to stand on their own, but the film itself gets passed over except for this scene.

    [​IMG]


    10. Representative Pin
    For me, this film’s strong suit was its music, so this pin leans into that and is a super cute point of Duchess and O’Malley dancing (which then becomes Marian and Robin Hood dancing!)

    [​IMG]
    Pin 116131 Date Nite at Disneyland Park Mystery Collection - Duchess and Thomas O'Malley



    Spare Notes:

    --Roquefort is without a doubt the best part of this movie. When he gets “shot” with the cork, I almost died laughing. XD

    [​IMG]
    “Oh they got me!”
     
  13. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

    Rating - 100%
    491   0   0

    1. Overall Impression
    “Oh, and now there are Nazis!” -- That’s my overall impression. Hahah! I was smiling at the illuminated manuscript style of the opening credits, and then when Nazis showed up, I was like “Wait…what?” Much like The Sound of Music, I checked out once the Nazis showed up as the film began to meander a lot and we spent a ton of time on the gags with the suits of armor. Certainly, we needed to get our money’s worth out of that scene, but like “Portobello Road,” it went on for about two segments too long. While I enjoyed bits of the movie, and Angela Lansbury is always a treasure, I didn’t enjoy it as much as I remembered as a kid. Was it because I watch it so late at night? Possibly. But the film totally had some pacing issues.

    Now, that’s not to say there’s not much to this film. There’s a wealth of awesome moments and key symbols. So while I won’t just straight to saying it’s a new favorite, there’s definitely a lot to work with.


    4. Song Analysis
    At the heart of it, I think this film is about believing and maintaining that childhood suspension of disbelief. The whole plot hinges on it, as I’ll get to in a bit, but that lovely song at the beginning, “The Age of Not Believing,” hits it right on point. The lyrics are all so painfully true, it would take too long to go through them all. But the circle the song takes is a perfect microcosm for the film:

    “When you set aside your childhood heroes / And your dreams are lost up on a shelf / You're at the age of not believing / And worst of all you doubt yourself”
    --to---
    “You must face the age of not believing / Doubting everything you ever knew / Until at last you start believing / There's something wonderful / In you”

    And even though Charlie, the oldest, is a little #*!t for the bulk of the film, it’s such a perfect sentiment and maps out his (sadly stunted) character arc. I’m studying children’s literature (as you’re all painfully aware of by now), so this hits a little close home for me and my work. Hahah!


    5. Symbol Analysis
    Speaking of children’s literature, Paul’s book of Naboombu acts as the perfect symbol for what the entire film is going for: children have it all along. Not only does Paul’s book prove where the amulet is, it “possessed” the amulet all along. Paul’s frequent passive aggressive comments, “If only someone would ask me,” points to how rarely we consult children and take them seriously. And who better to consult with on matters unbelievable that with the only people who innately believe them—children! Mary Poppins features a very similar theme, but I think it’s on this point that Bedknobs beats out its predecessor.


    6. Dialog Analysis
    When Ms. Price explains the bed spell to Prof. Brown, she has a great quip which can easily work on the meta level: “[The spell] is perfectly safe. A bit theatrical perhaps, but most good spells are.” Walt always leaned on the magical side of filmmaking, and considering the spectacle the film presented (it won the Oscar for Best Special Visual Effects in 1972), I’d say this quote nicely encompasses Disney’s belief that film is very much a magic spell to be cast by the right person.


    8. Progression

    Obviously, this film is frequently compared to Mary Poppins and, beyond the point I noted above, I don’t think it holds up as well. Be that my own nostalgia talking or a comment on the actual quality, it’s hard to say. But I couldn’t shake the feeling that after getting some slack from “Step in Time,” the director really ran with it during “Portobello Road.” That sequence was so long, as was the ending of the film, that its pacing issues just drag the entire thing down. Not to mention the soccer game was painful in its recycling animation, something Mary Poppins did not deal with.

    But, of course, I couldn’t help but smile at the similarities between Price and Poppins both winning the prize during the animated sequence:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    9. Iconic Shot
    The “Beautiful Briny Sea” has always stuck with me as the most iconic moment of the film. And certainly, thinking about it alongside that soccer game, I think it’s not only a greater cinematic moment, but just more memorable. When Price and Brown first lift off the bed was really spectacular, so it gets my vote for iconic shot!

    [​IMG]


    10. Representative Pin
    Even though “Briny Sea” won for iconic scene, few individual items are as iconic for this film as the medallion. With that in mind, I’ll go with this pin as the most representative. Not only does it have the medallion, but also that “Gypsy Switch” moment with the King as well as the bed silhouette.

    [​IMG]
    Pin 51544 WDW - Disney's Bedknobs and Broomsticks 35th Anniversary



    Spare Thoughts:
    --I love how the kids are all like “Yay! We have a father!” only for him to leave for the war immediately afterward…….
     
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  14. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Oof! We rolled back into town not long ago, so forgive me for wrapping this week up so late. Just skimming over it, we've got some great analyses going! :D Since I'm already so late in wrapping up the week, I'll post the cut off early Monday morning for these two. So if you're straggling on either of them, you've got a bit of time left.

    But now that school is wrapping up for the semester on my end, I should be more on top of things. ;P

    Also, I'll roll out icons for Jungle Book and these two tomorrow. :)
     
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  15. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    [​IMG]
    Robin Hood (1973)

    Monday is our "wrap-up" discussion on Aristocats and Bedknobs and Broomsticks. So you're welcome to respond to other analyses throughout the day.

    However, you may not post any more full analyses for Aristocats or Bedknobs and Broomsticks to count for completion toward the 52 Challenge. No late homework. ;P

    ~Merlin
     
  16. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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  17. pretty Omi

    pretty Omi Resident Smol Wolf

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    Fun fact: Depending on which version of the film you are watching, the Portobello Road sequence can be longer or shorter!
    If the run time of your copy is 139 mins, you get a much longer Portobello Road, an additional song and there is some additional dialogue mostly from the scene after Naboombu when they have returned home (this can be noticeable because they had to re-dub the lines)
    If the run time of your copy is only 112 mins, you get a shorter dance sequence, and those extra lines were cut
    I remember the first time watching the longer one and the Portobello Road dance off drags on for MUCH longer haha, I'm glad they trimmed it a little
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  18. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    I was reading about that! I think my version (which was lovingly swiped from the dark corners of the web) is the extended version. That song had two blackouts in it, only to come back with MOAR DANCING.

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     
  19. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    I think the initial DVD release has intact by default while the bluray places them as extras, I think I saw the shorter of the two as I was listening to the soundtrack on YouTube and knowing I didn't see that in the film.
     
  20. pretty Omi

    pretty Omi Resident Smol Wolf

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    So! There were discrepancies in the beginning on the style to use for the film, and the look of the characters, most notably between Milt Khal and Ollie Johnston. Although I can't find a source in quick succession to reference, but this particular scene was one of the very first to be animated. That is why Duchess looks so different, and this is the most sketchy looking of the scenes in the film. They eventually decided to refine things a bit more, they changed the overall look of the animation, and Duchess for the rest of the film, but left this in/didn't want to go back and reanimate it for whatever their reasons (I'm sure we can all think of some, esp $$ but it's hard to say without having been there).
    You can read a little more about this on Adreas Deja's animation blog Deja View: Aristocats altho this mostly covers their disagreement on O'Malley's design
     
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  21. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    I just finished watching this movie; I didn’t remember much about it from when I was a kid.


    1. and 8. My overall impression of the movie… Several things:

    Robin Hood (and maybe Maid Marian) has a British accent, but all other characters have more American accents.

    Perhaps I’ve been doing these critiques for too long, but this movie really feels like a bunch of rehashes from previous Disney movies.
    • Yet another movie that opens with a book. I don’t really have a problem with this, but it does seem to be very repetitive in all of the Disney movies we’ve watched.
    • Voice repeats: Little John = Baloo from “Jungle Book”; Sheriff = Napoleon from “Aristocats”, Trigger = Lafayette from “Aristocats”
    • Kaa and Sir Hiss have several things in common, and I wonder if Disney has created a “snake trope”… (1) Both have issues with sibilant S’s in their speech patterns; (2) Both hypnotize their victims (Mowgli for Kaa; King Richard and Prince John for Sir Hiss) with their swirling eyes; (3) Both get tied in knots.
    • Girl rabbit saying Robin Hood is “so handsome” = Marie sighing/swooning after meeting Thomas O’Malley in “Aristocats”.
    • Lots of repeat animation within the movie. For example, the army marching with elephants, hippos, and rhinos is the same when Prince John is robbed in the forest and during the archery contest/fight afterwards.
    • The archery fight reminds me of the soccer scene in “Bedknobs and Broomsticks”, especially the tent with the running feet = crowd of soccer players.
    • Prince John says “off with his head”, so he must be related to the Queen of Hearts.
    • The forest dance scene has lots of “familiar” scenes. Maid Marian dancing with dog = Snow White dancing with stacked dwarfs. Marian and Robin Hood dancing = Duchess & O’Malley dancing from “Aristocats”. Rabbit Drummer = Shun Gon (Chinese cat) in “Aristocats”.
    • Just married scene with Robin and Marian in the coach = just married scene in “Cinderella” with the Prince and Cinderella.


    2. The character I chose to analyze was Prince John, because he’s a bad kitty. Prince John is the villain in the film, but he is made to be weak and ineffective. First off, he’s slightly effeminate and acts “dainty” (Is that code word for “gay”? This kind of negative stereotype would still have been socially acceptable in the 1970s…). He’s also a mama’s boy who breaks down in tears whenever his mother is mentioned and who sucks his thumb whenever things don’t go his way. He acts petulantly (raising taxes after being humiliated) and throws tantrums. He also acts cowardly, releasing Robin Hood when there is a knife in his back (although that’s not really a time to be filled with bravado) and escaping behind the barrel when he started losing his sword fight.

    He’s certainly a lot less intimidating (and I would also argue, less dangerous) and less feared by others than Shere Khan, his counterpart and fellow snake wrangler in “Jungle Book”.


    3. The scene I chose to analyze was the play fight scene between Maid Marian/Lady Cluck and the children. This scene introduced Maid Marian, and part of the goal of this scene was to let the viewers know that Maid Marian is not on the same side as Prince John, and that she cares for her subjects (or kids) enough to play along and make the kids feel important. Lady Cluck was also introduced as Marian’s lady in waiting/sidekick and her fighting spirit/zest for life was demonstrated. I do wonder if it would be acceptable for Maid Marian and Lady Cluck to be heard making fun of Prince John, or if they would have been locked up in the brig (executed??) for treason against Prince John…

    This was a lot of fun and worked well to endear Maid Marian and Lady Cluck (and I suppose, the children as well) to the viewers. Skippy was very afraid of Prince John when he first met these two ladies, but they made them feel much better/safer after their play-fight.


    4. The song I chose to analyze was “Oo-de-lally”. This song introduces Robin Hood and Little John in a chase sequence with the guards of Nottingham. This makes the film feel like a buddy movie, and this is helped by the dialog between the two after the song and the scene of them robbing the prince’s coach. This movie does make it seem like the whole band of merry men = Robin and John. Where are the others? Friar Tuck does appear but is more of a clergyman than outlaw…

    Perhaps it’s because of Roger Miller’s country twang, but this scene really reminded me of “The Dukes of Hazzard”. The whole robbing the rich (Boss Hogg) to give to the poor, a hapless sheriff (Roscoe P. Coltrane), the use of bows and arrows since they couldn’t use guns… Hey, wait a minute!! Apparently, I *just* figured out that “The Dukes of Hazzard” was a “Robin Hood” story. Who knew? (Obviously not me…)


    6. and 7. The quote I chose to analyze was Little John: “Are we good guys or bad guys? You know, I mean, our robbing the rich to feed the poor.” The goal of Robin Hood has always been to address the issue of social justice, and whether it is nobler in the mind to steal from the poor to give to the rich (capitalism) or to steal from the rich to give to the poor (socialism). I suppose the answer to that question all depends on which group you belong to…

    It’s very interesting that everyone views Robin Hood as a good guy (despite stealing) and Prince John as the villain (although he *is* the law). However, in the real world, people don’t ever see the same events in the same light. I hate to bring politics into this, but Donald Trump is a perfect example. For some, he’s Robin Hood (trying to save the kingdom from those who have been in charge for so long: “Drain the swamp!” And many view him as the first president likely to help the poor and down-trodden) but for others, he’s Prince John (taking from the poor to line the pockets of the rich—or more correctly, giving a little bit of $ to the poor and a whole lot of $$ to the rich with his tax cuts; and throwing tantrums/twitters when things don’t go his way).


    9. I don’t know if this is the most iconic shot from the movie, but it is the scene I most remember from a kid: Robin Hood dressed as a stork for the archery contest.
    [​IMG]


    10. I chose this pin (62462) because Robin Hood is all about Robin Hood stealing from the rich (Prince John) to give to the poor (in this case, the minstrel).
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Meritre

    Meritre Active Member

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    I'm joining in once more - I have off tomorrow, that means staying up lat and hoping there will be a chat tonight. :)

    Robin Hood

    1. What is your overall impression of the film? Some possible talking points include: what you did or did not like about it; what about the film has stuck with you; what did you find different on this viewing; how would modern audiences respond to this (for the older films)… The list goes on. Hahah!

    Another movie I watched for the first time and I watched this one dubbed, too. My impression is that it is rather a collection of scenes loosely connected to each other. The forest backgrounds were pretty and the characters still have that slightly sketchy drawingstyle. My impression is that this movie is more like a stepping stone for other movies to draw inspiration from, for example The Lion King (realtionship and some of the design of the lionbrothers) or Zootopia – both films have animals acting like humans and a fox and a rabbit are important characters.


    2. Choose one specific character to analyze. You can explore how a character acts, what they say, how they dress, etc. to explain what they may represent or their function and meaning in the narrative. Try to avoid obvious "plot" stuff (ex: the Evil Queen is a villain, so her purpose is to be bad...), but explore unique and specific elements about the character (ex: the EQ is surrounded by images of peacocks, further suggesting her obsession with vanity). You may also use these elements to explain why you connected or disconnected from the character.

    I think Maid Marian takes the typical princess role, she’s pretty and wears quite princessy colors and dreams of her true love. The only time she steps out of this role is at the archery contest, when she throws a pie and with that joins the fight. I would have loved it if she could have shown some other quaities, (like beeing sly) and would have been more active alltogether. She is quite the opposite of her companion, Lady Kluck, both in appearance and in their behaviour during the fight after the archery contest. But there are some motherly treats they share, for example both of them get on very well with children.



    3. Choose one specific scene or sequence to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? Your analysis could include the scene’s use of color, action, camera angles, music, character development, setting, backdrop, style, etc. If you can justify it with evidence from the scene, then it’s an analysis!

    The fight after the archery contest is an odd contrast between a serious battle and lot’s of funny things happening. Swordfight, Mariann has to be rescued but Little John and Lady Kluck seem to have a lot of fun during that main event. (The hungarian translation of main event is a play on words – they used ’sátoros ünnep, ’ and the word by word translation would be a feast with a tent but it actually means a big event, big feast – the tent adds to the fun because Little John is shepherding his enemies into a tent)
    It uses bright colors for the characters to keep the attention on them and to add to the funny chaos that dominates that scene.
    A real battle would be too scary but with so many funny things happening who can be scared?


    4. Choose one song to analyze—tell me what response is it trying to evoke from the viewer and how does it go about getting that response? What purpose does this song have in the film and does it succeed in that purpose?

    The song Love ought to set the mood for a romantic date but also tells all about their relationship - well kind of. That they got to know each other as children and time passed and things changed. I thought it is sung by Maid Marian but it’s more like a background song. Judging by the lyrics could be her.
    It feels a bit like that there just has to be a pretty romantic song sung by a female so here it is.


    5. Choose one specific symbol in the film to analyze. A symbol is typically something inanimate, an object, rather than a character. So don’t say “Brer Bear represents dumb people,” as that’s more of a character analysis than a symbol. Rather, think about specific objects (jewelry, clothing, houses, food, weapons, etc.) What does this symbol mean and how does that meaning impact the film?

    I choose the arrow, it represents fight, as both sides use it. They are Robin Hoods beast weapon but also a possibility to get him into danger – an archery contest with the goal to catch him, the arrow that gets stuck in his hat – those arrows are a threat and mean that there’s going to be a fight. It is also the object associated with Robin immediately.


    6. Choose a single line of dialog that you find to be the most significant/impactful line in the film and why. You can be a little loose with the “single line” bit, but let’s not go for Maleficent’s entire monologue to Philip... Rather, something like Stitch’s “This is my family. I found it all on my own. It’s little, and broken, but still good. Yeah – still good.” (brb weeping).

    He’s just gotta make it. He’s gonna make it, isn’t he?
    This line by Skippy stands for the hope the whole film is trying to give. There is always hope, even if things seem desperate.
    It has to be added that a child can hope longer than an adult, at least I tink so. They hope that a miracle will happen until the very end.


    7. What is this film’s overall goal? Is it to teach a specific lesson (what is it) or get an emotional response (such as)? Or both? And how well or poorly does the film succeed in that goal? Be specific!

    I think that it shows that beeing greedy and selfish brings suffering and there will be always people like that but there is also hope. Always. It is like a fairy tale in which everybody gets what they deserve, punishment or reward.


    8. What connections or progressions do you see in this film to past films? Example: how does Sleeping Beauty progress (or digress?) the princess archetype built in Cinderella? Be specific!

    As I already mentioned, the movie uses the same mostly passive heroine like the three Disney Princesses before Marian. Her companion, Lady Kluck on the other hand is a strong female character who is looking after the heroine and helping her, just like the three good fairies protect and look after Aurora. (Besides, mixing Auroras pink and blue gown we get Marians purplish dresscolor)


    9. What is the iconic shot of the film? What single frame of animation do you find to be the most memorable and why? Post it! You can check out this link to find some great screencaps to help!

    I remember this picture from the time when I borrowed the book version of the movie from the library:

    [​IMG]

    And it sums up Robin Hood pretty well – helping those in need of it.



    10. What single pin do you think best represents this film for you? Why? Give us the pin number and post a picture!

    There is a pin of my iconic shot as well :)
    Pin 66370 DisneyShopping.com - 35th Anniversary Robin Hood Pin Set (Robin Hood & Maid Marian only)


    Stray thoughts: They reused a lot of animation, for Maid Marians dancing - Snow White, Duchess, the design of Little John and Baloo and King Louie dancing for Little John and Lady Kluck. Aristocats, The Jungle Book and even Snow White returned in various forms.
    I think many characters have rather short legs.
    Prince John is in some hungarian sources said to be a puma, aka mountain lion as he has no mane. Well, if a lion, King Richard can have a fox as a niece, he can have a mountain lion as a brother just as well.
    Prince Johns face reminds me a little of Scar and just like Mufasa, Richard, the older brother has rounder features here as well. Also the older brother is more popular and a better king than the younger one in both cases.

    Edit: added one thought to the song, corrected some typos and made the picture visible
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
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  23. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

    Rating - 100%
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    1. Overall Impression
    First and foremost, I adore this movie. This will always be “my” Robin Hood version. Russ was saying as I was getting it started that it always takes him a second to shift gears from Men in Tights when I start talking about Robin Hood, but for some reason this one is cemented as the version for me.

    That being said, several things surprised me on this watch-through. Most notably, I noticed how grim certain aspects were (which I’ll get into later), all in the service of having a significantly more uplifting ending. I didn’t realize that stark contrast so much as a kid, or even the last time I watched it. There was definitely a lot of dark humor or background material that struck me. But overall, I love the characters, the plot, and even some of the repeated animation didn’t bother me as much as it did in other films. So I could just be bias. Hahah!


    2. Character Analysis / 6. Dialog Analysis
    At first I wanted to look at Robin, but as I was watching the film, I noticed a very interesting dynamic between Prince John and Sir Hiss: it’s the sidekick who is the “smart” one, and the main villain is bumbling. In most villain archetypes (Gaston/Le Fou, Hades/Pain-Panic, Maleficent/Goons, Jafar/Iago), the main villain is both sinister and cunning, while the sidekick is mostly comedic relief. That’s reversed here, as PJ is an outright fop and too inebriated with his own ego to notice when he’s being played.

    [​IMG]
    “I’ve been robbed…”

    Russ too made a good point as he passed through the room: PJ is only evil because he is rich—most other villains are evil because they are smart/cunning, which separates them from the rest of the cast. For PJ, it’s just his obsession with money (re: Power), a position which he has by chance and by taking advantage of a situation.

    In fact, as I look over the list, I can’t find another villain duo that have the same dynamic as PJ/Hiss. Very interesting.

    All that to say, he has the best lines in the entire movie:

    [​IMG]

    And is, for me, one of the most memorable villains. Probably because I don’t see him as a threat. Because let’s face it, as soon as Robin pulled the sword on him, he went running XD

    [​IMG]

    But his entire demeanor is so comedic and over the top that I can’t help but laugh at him—and the Sheriff and Hiss feel the same way, when they started singing “Phony King of England”. If we are going to have a bumbling villain, just go for the gold! XD

    [​IMG]


    3. Scene Analysis
    This might be an interesting choice, but I wanted to analyze the opening credits because I think they were the biggest mistake in the film. Unlike 101 Dalmatians or Aristocats which did use parts of the film’s animations in the opening credits, this film took completed cels and animation sequences and put them in the opening on top of a blank parchment background. So when characters were walking, it was just on empty space and didn’t have the same tactile effect as it does when they have a background.

    [​IMG]

    This decision called attention to the separation in animation between characters and background—it broke the unity and the magic that the entire animation process tries to mask, that the two are not necessarily created in tandem, but when combined they create an incredible effect. Since the credits used parts of the animation (I’m thinking specifically of the chase scenes), when those moments arrived in the film I was already aware that they did not exist on the same plane as the background, so I noticed the disunity between the two all the more. It was a very jarring experience and really bothered me. Unlike Aristocats, which used line and sketch art, this was just full blown completed animation, and I found it distracting and tacky. It’s my only major complaint for the film. :/


    (4. Song Analysis)
    Doesn’t really count as an analysis, but I’m probably one of the few people who just don’t like “Love Goes On”. I think it’s a major slam on the breaks, coming after a high energy chase scene and leading into “Phony King of England”—which is a superior song in every way ;P But this scene also seems to date the film a lot:

    [​IMG]

    That silent, gaze into the eyes while the wind ruffles our shawl just feels so 70s to me… I remember as a kid not liking the scene (“sissy stuff!”), but that feeling hasn’t changed much. XD My bad.


    5. Symbol Analysis
    I thought the gallows was an interesting symbol because it seems to represent how the film soft pedals rather grim and heavy topics. At the beginning, when Alan-a-Dale is first showing us Nottingham, we see all of the signs in the background advertising “Tax Sales” and such. The background is a grey pallet and simply dismal:

    [​IMG]

    It’s a hefty topic, that an entire town has been ground into poverty by taxes, though Disney leaves that for the background mostly. And when Friar Tuck is in his cell waiting to be hanged, we don’t see any lamentation or dwelling on it, but in the background again is something written that adds a lot of weight to the scene:

    [​IMG]

    That little touch turns the energy from light to heavy in an instant. It’s just so dark, but again, left to the background.

    But back to the gallows, while the Sheriff is putting the finishing touches on the noose, Nutsy say: “One of the prettiest scaffolds you’ve ever built, Sheriff!” It’s a throwaway line, it breaks the tension, because they are literally building something to kill someone. By making it the “prettiest”, it’s less threatening or dark because someone will die on it at dawn (they even test the trap door, for goodness sake!!). And too, the fact that it’s the prettiest he’s ever built suggest that there have been others built and used!! I was just really struck by the…well, gallows humor in the film which I had somehow never noticed before.


    8. Progression
    More of an open-ended question than an analysis answer: but is this the first time Disney has dealt with a really “grey area” character? Robin Hood does steal—it’s wrong. But he’s the hero and we love him. But he’s also a criminal? Do we have any other characters before or after that fall into this sort of grey area?


    9. Iconic Shot
    I went around and around with this one, but I settled on the scene where Robin is standing on the little log stage in his hideout and hatches the plan to win the archery game.

    [​IMG]
    “This will be my greatest performance!”

    This represents everything Robin is: his love for Marian, his foolhardy daring, his cunning, his showmanship, and his skill.

    But if I’m being really really honest, it’s when he’s the Spindle-legged Stork. That’s hands down my favorite scene XD


    10. Representative Pin
    I saw of glimpse of @unibear’s post and saw this pin as their representative and man it’s such a good choice that I’m totally going to steal it (thematically appropriate ;) )

    [​IMG]
    Pin 62462 DLR - Disney Dreams Collection - Robin Hood

    It’s just got everything. The bard-style opening, the manuscript/history background, PJ and Hiss, and Robin in his “Wanted Poster” pose. If that’s not representative, I’m not sure what is. XD


    Spare Notes:

    --Skippy’s voice acting was so good! I forgot how solid of a character he was. And he also has the best, most versatile gif on the internet:

    [​IMG]


    --I never realized how much recycled animation from so many different films was in the “Phony King of England” scene. Lady Kluck and Little John’s Baloo/King Louie dance was something I had never noticed before. Somehow, that makes it seem more like an Easter Egg thing rather than lazy animation.

    [​IMG]


    -- I love you, Robin Hood, I do. But arrows don’t ricochet like that…. XD

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    Good symbol to analyze. I also noticed that to trap Robin Hood in the archery contest, the prize was a solid gold arrow (and a kiss from Maid Marian). And you're right, Robin Hood was overly prideful of his archery skill—so much so that he *couldn't* resist the archery contest even though he should have at least expected it to be a trap.
     
  25. unibear

    unibear DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

    Rating - 100%
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    Yes! I felt this was such a 70's throwback—very "Love American Style!" (Time for you younger whipper-snappers to search the net!)

    I also liked your different take on the same pin/movie!

    Finally, I feel like there is SOOO much of the dance scene that is stolen from other movies. I didn't know the extent until I watched it again! I didn't point it out, but the cat dancing in the forest felt an awful lot like Scat Cat!
     

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