Urgent help needed to authenticate a Dalmatian pin.

[erudolf]

I have many DA pins and have never seen one where the hologram fell off. Sure, they a can come off, but you would have to pick at them like you did. They likely aren't going to come off by themselves. Also, it is highly unlikely that one person would have several pins with this issue.

 

[bwschultz]

So we have proof that these are scrappers. Technically they are scrappers as they come from the factory supplying to Disney but are not authenticated by Disney.

Isn't there a way to report this to Disney. I think there was a thread a while back on this. I will look for it.

I have reported the stitch pin listings to ebay. I encourage others to report their suspicions. Not sure there is more I can do but to spread the word.

Cudos to erudolf for posting the scrapper warning on pinpics.

Great job all. It all comes down to the old saying: "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is"

 

[bwschultz]

The Walt Disney Company and its subsidiaries own the intellectual property rights to the characters, brands, titles and properties popularly associated with the Disney name and with Disney's affiliates. This includes a large number of titles, characters and other elements from Disney's television programs, feature-length motion pictures, animated productions, publications, games and music. Disney takes the enforcement of these rights very seriously. We protect these rights so that we can continue to provide quality entertainment that measures up to the standards that our audience has come to love and expect. We welcome reports of suspected infringement of any of these rights. Please direct reports to us via one of the following methods:

Email: tips@disneyantipiracy.com

Voice Mail: 818-560-3300

Mail:The Walt Disney Company

Antipiracy Group

500 South Buena Vista Street

Burbank, California 91521-0644

 

[bwschultz]

I have sent a tip to the above posted email where I listed links to the stitch pins auctions in question. I have not investigated the other pins from this seller so I cannot comment on them.

I encourage all who believe Disney should look into this matter to either call the toll free number or email them as I have done. To email them, all you have to do is go up to the post above and click onto the email link and you will be able to send them a tip.

If you are worried confidentiality here is the reply I received back from Disney:

Thank you for your correspondence. We want you to know that we appreciate the time you took to bring this matter to our attention. We protect our intellectual property rights vigorously and we take reports of suspected infringement seriously. However, as you can appreciate, investigations are confidential.We neither reveal our sources nor generally correspond further with them about any investigations.




Please feel free to use our email address tips@disneyantipiracy.com or our Antipiracy voice mail hotline, 818-560-3300, if you want to provide more information about the suspected infringement or to report a suspected infringement in the future.




Very truly yours,




Antipiracy Group, Corporate Legal


The Walt Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-0527


Once again Good Job. At least we prevented a few, and hopefully more, traders frome being taken.

 

[mybabykelly]

I was looking through the newly listed pins on ebay, and there is also an Ursula Employee ID badge LE 300 that I've been looking for that is clearly a scrapper. The seller has ten for sale at an unreasonably low price and even posted a personal pic of it. It sucks that people try to take people like this :-/ I'm just glad I have pinpics to check before I purchase pins.

 

[pook-a-lu-le]

Ok, so now I know...but where was this info 2-3 months ago when I purchased a DA Stitch with Frog Adoption (with the hologram missing) from another seller that I had trusted here in the US? -(it's not just sellers from China that have these bad pins).

My feelings about this latest developement is the missing hologram is not going to be a problem for long for unscrupulous sellers because they will now glue a hologram from a not so valuable/desireable DA pin into the hole of a very valuable/highly desireable DA counterfeited pin! Also, these pins appear to be very good counterfeits - the gavels all line up correctly on the back and they feel and look good (at least to my untrained eyes)...so, even having a present hologram will no longer be a true guide for these fake pins.

I really wish that someone or some group of "pin experts" could be formed to help collectors and buyers check pins for possible counterfeit indicators. The expert(s) would need to stay up-to-date on the newest counterfeiter's tactics, and they would need to have access to the most popular and valued original pins so a comparison and evaluation could be made -(good pin, bad pin, unsure pin). I think I would consider paying a small fee for an expert opinion before making my next purchase of a very expensive Disney pin. Also, I think a group of pin experts might help to prevent more sales of counterfeit pins, and eventually it might force counterfeiters of Disney Pins out of business.

 

[JAllenWood]

Ok, so now I know...but where was this info 2-3 months ago when I purchased a DA Stitch with Frog Adoption (with the hologram missing) from another seller that I had trusted here in the US? -(it's not just sellers from China that have these bad pins).

My feelings about this latest developement is the missing hologram is not going to be a problem for long for unscrupulous sellers because they will now glue a hologram from a not so valuable/desireable DA pin into the hole of a very valuable/highly desireable DA counterfeited pin! Also, these pins appear to be very good counterfeits - the gavels all line up correctly on the back and they feel and look good (at least to my untrained eyes)...so, even having a present hologram will no longer be a true guide for these fake pins.

I really wish that someone or some group of "pin experts" could be formed to help collectors and buyers check pins for possible counterfeit indicators. The expert(s) would need to stay up-to-date on the newest counterfeiter's tactics, and they would need to have access to the most popular and valued original pins so a comparison and evaluation could be made -(good pin, bad pin, unsure pin). I think I would consider paying a small fee for an expert opinion before making my next purchase of a very expensive Disney pin. Also, I think a group of pin experts might help to prevent more sales of counterfeit pins, and eventually it might force counterfeiters of Disney Pins out of business.

Getting some professional help from the likes of Disney would be great! But until we get a group of 'official experts' available to us, the best we can do is what we're trying to do here, which is share our knowledge/experience with each other, compare notes, show and compare photos and ultimately try to spread what we find to the trading/collecting community. Also, if we find people knowingly selling or trading fake or scrapper pins, we need to stand up and call them out on it. Either in the parks (like walrus did) and on the auction sites (like what Bruce is doing here). Also, keep informing and educating as many people as you can as well as yourself.

 

[bwschultz]

I have 2 DA pins (Many actually) but these 2 I know for fact were purchased when the site was up and running, original everything including the invoice and they have the same issue. I have also seen this on a few other (non DA) pins that were purchased directly from Disney.
I personally do not think it is a huge red flag but the best way to be sure is to find 3 or 4 people who also have the pin and see what theirs looks like.

Ok, so now I know...but where was this info 2-3 months ago when I purchased a DA Stitch with Frog Adoption (with the hologram missing) from another seller that I had trusted here in the US? -(it's not just sellers from China that have these bad pins).

My feelings about this latest developement is the missing hologram is not going to be a problem for long for unscrupulous sellers because they will now glue a hologram from a not so valuable/desireable DA pin into the hole of a very valuable/highly desireable DA counterfeited pin! Also, these pins appear to be very good counterfeits - the gavels all line up correctly on the back and they feel and look good (at least to my untrained eyes)...so, even having a present hologram will no longer be a true guide for these fake pins.

I really wish that someone or some group of "pin experts" could be formed to help collectors and buyers check pins for possible counterfeit indicators. The expert(s) would need to stay up-to-date on the newest counterfeiter's tactics, and they would need to have access to the most popular and valued original pins so a comparison and evaluation could be made -(good pin, bad pin, unsure pin). I think I would consider paying a small fee for an expert opinion before making my next purchase of a very expensive Disney pin. Also, I think a group of pin experts might help to prevent more sales of counterfeit pins, and eventually it might force counterfeiters of Disney Pins out of business.

It appears that not all DA pins without a hologram on it are scrappers as pointed out by iamdisneydan. The only way to know for sure a pin is authentic is to buy it directly from Disney.

The point stressed here is if you are going to trade or buy a high end pin, do your homework first. Know who you are dealing with by checking feedback and/or references. Remeber, it is OK to ask someone to send a picture of the actual pin and the back of the pin. If they refuse, then move on or take your chances. If you still have concerns ask around. This forum is full of knowledgeable people who are willing to help eachother in need.

There may come a day where pins can be certified (DPCA-Disney Pin Certification Authority????) but that will never stop the counterfitters. Look at coin collecting. High end coins are now often certified by PCGS, NGC, etc. but there are poeple who are counterfitting the certified holders as well as the coins. Again, mostly coming from China.

I myself am a newbie to trading and with the help of these fine people on DFP we have now learned that there are scrappers of high end DA pins out there and are spreading the word.

So get out there and trade and DO YOU HOMEWORK

 

[erudolf]

It appears that not all DA pins without a hologram on it are scrappers as pointed out by iamdisneydan. The only way to know for sure a pin is authentic is to buy it directly from Disney.

In case anyone is confused, it is important to note that many DA pins do not have the hologram, nor should they. Disney Auctions didn't always use the hologram. They started that later on....maybe half way through....around 2004? I don't know exactly when they started.... But, they also only put them on the LE 100's and a few of the LE 250's. I don't recall ever seeing a DA pin with an edition size higher then 250 with a hologram. So, obviously, most DA pins will not have the hologram.

The distinction that should be made here is that these pins in question should have the hologram and have a spot for it on the back of the pin. I have heard (I can't confirm it is true, but it makes sense) that the pins were manufactured in China and then the holograms were put on here in the US before Disney sold them. This would tie into why someone selling pins straight from the factory would not have the hologram.

As for taking the hologram from one pin to another, yes, I guess it could possibly happen, but not as easy as it sounds. First, since holograms were mainly on LE 100 pins the person would have to have an LE 100 pin (possibly LE 250) that they would be willing to deface. In some instances, sure, it may be worth it. But that would be difficult to do on a large scale. Also, I think that those holograms have some protection in them so they are not easily removed and replaced, similar to the sticker tape on exectronics boxes today. When you peel it off the image is compromised. Several years ago I had one of my DA pins where the sticker wasn't put on straight. It was really bugging me so I tried to peel off the hologram and restick it but as I was peeling it off I noticed that the hologram itself was tearing, so I stopped and just left it. So....I may be a possible scenario, but I'm thinking unlikely and if it did happen it would be a rare occurance.

Also, you can't trust US sellers anymore than you can the ones from China. This seller being located in China is a red flag, but they also sell to many US sellers. There is one large seller in particular that I used to buy from but now, I am seeing A LOT of the nicer WDI, Auctions, etc. scrapper pins in their listings. Seems like a case of a good seller gone bad to me..... Also remember, these people could be filtering their unauthorized pins through trades too. So, be careful of who you are dealing with!!!

That is now the second Stitch Adopting a Frog pin that I have heard of without the hologram. One just sold on ebay recently and now this one makes two so there could be cause for concern there now too....

 

[jennafae]

There is also an ebay seller with multiple of the Ariel & King Triton DA LE 100 that don't have the hologram. The back of the pin isn't pictured in the listing, but I emailed him & asked for a picture... Then opted to not bid. PM or email me if you want/need particulars.

Edit: It looks like its the same guy- now that I look at all the listings...

 

[bwschultz]

There is also an ebay seller with multiple of the Ariel & King Triton DA LE 100 that don't have the hologram. The back of the pin isn't pictured in the listing, but I emailed him & asked for a picture... Then opted to not bid. PM or email me if you want/need particulars.

You may want to post your own thread about these pins posting pictures of the back so that others who collect Ariel and LK pins would be informed.

 

[jennafae]

You may want to post your own thread about these pins posting pictures of the back so that others who collect Ariel and LK pins would be informed.

I tried to upload pics, but can't for some reason- I don't know if its my internet today or how they sent the pics, but they are showing up blank when I try to put them on here- though I've uploaded pics before...

 

[bwschultz]

I tried to upload pics, but can't for some reason- I don't know if its my internet today or how they sent the pics, but they are showing up blank when I try to put them on here- though I've uploaded pics before...

I'm not too computer savvy, so I'm not sure how to help with this. :sad:

Have you tried the Help Desk? thejessta set up this thread to help members upload pictures: http://disneypinforum.com/showthread.php?324-Trouble-uploading-images-amp-signatures

If that doesn't help you can ask thejessta for help in this thread. Hope it works for you. :x:

 

[bwschultz]

In case anyone is confused, it is important to note that many DA pins do not have the hologram, nor should they. Disney Auctions didn't always use the hologram. They started that later on....maybe half way through....around 2004? I don't know exactly when they started.... But, they also only put them on the LE 100's and a few of the LE 250's. I don't recall ever seeing a DA pin with an edition size higher then 250 with a hologram. So, obviously, most DA pins will not have the hologram.

The distinction that should be made here is that these pins in question should have the hologram and have a spot for it on the back of the pin. I have heard (I can't confirm it is true, but it makes sense) that the pins were manufactured in China and then the holograms were put on here in the US before Disney sold them. This would tie into why someone selling pins straight from the factory would not have the hologram.

Thanks for the clarification erudolf.

 

[pook-a-lu-le]

It appears that not all DA pins without a hologram on it are scrappers as pointed out by iamdisneydan. The only way to know for sure a pin is authentic is to buy it directly from Disney.

The problem here is that the DA pins are no longer being produce - except by counterfeiters - and the only way a collector can obtain certain coveted pins is by buying directly from an individual. And, then there is the question of who can you trust? How and what information can anyone really obtain about another person's motives, or the true provenance of a certain pin? In 5 - 10 years there may be 500+ people who believe or else claim they own the real DA LE 100 PP# 28967, and will they be honest enough to tell you that their pin was purchased directly from China in 2011?

Another problem with the missing hologram: What happens if you happen to be the owner of a DA pin and the hologram is missing and/or has fallen off? How are you ever going to sell your pin if the time comes when you must? OMG! I would be devestated knowing I had purchased the real thing but no one believed me!
Moreover, if the DA hologram pins do have an issue with the glue not sticking over the years, then I also see major problems in collecting these pins now because any pin that is missing it's hologram will probably now be linked to counterfeiting...

My poor little Stitch Adopting Frog Pin is now a branded pin - rightly or wrongly - he is still a branded pin, and the funny thing is that now that he has been branded, I really don't care to own the real thing anymore! The same thing happened with the Stitch Dalmatian (both LE 100 pins ), and the Masterpiece Pins - Daisylyn, and Tinker Bell Starry Night - I just don't even want to own them now.

 

[erudolf]

Another problem with the missing hologram: What happens if you happen to be the owner of a DA pin and the hologram is missing and/or has fallen off? How are you ever going to sell your pin if the time comes when you must? OMG! I would be devestated knowing I had purchased the real thing but no one believed me!
Moreover, if the DA hologram pins do have an issue with the glue not sticking over the years, then I also see major problems in collecting these pins now because any pin that is missing it's hologram will probably now be linked to counterfeiting...

I think the hologram coming off on its own is highly unlikely so not really something to be concerned over...

My poor little Stitch Adopting Frog Pin is now a branded pin - rightly or wrongly - he is still a branded pin, and the funny thing is that now that he has been branded, I really don't care to own the real thing anymore!

If that is the case, then maybe you didn't want it for the right reasons to begin with....If this makes you not want to own the pin at all anymore then you couldn't have wanted it too bad in the first place. I could understand if you bought if just for trading, but in that case, scrapper or not, I wouldn't have purchased a damaged pin (missing hologram) if I intended to use it as a trader because there is too much risk associated with that.