Would You Trade?

[Allib]

We have been sending out a lot of trade requests over the past few weeks and have made some good trades. We received a reply back this morning for a simple rack pin trade and part of the conditions from the reply were this:

Your pin is in mint condition with no scratches or marks (even tiny)


We passed on the trade and replied to the other party that we just did this for fun and that our definition of "mint" may be different than theirs and we didn't want to bother with sending pins back if they weren't pleased.

Just wondering if others would make a trade for an average pin with these conditions....the "tiny" is what bothered me, I had visions of someone looking over the pin with a magnifying glass.

 

[earthbound]

Wow! In my opinion then the trader may turn out to be more trouble than the trades worth! Unless you've had your pin under a microscope to check the finish etc then any slightest blemish would be cause for complaint! The comment "Your pin is in mint condition with no scratches or marks (even tiny)" makes me think that they may possibly be selling the pin on in "Mint condition"

I'd pass as well!

 

[Vala]

I'd pass too.

I know some traders are critical and do really go over their pins with magnifying glasses, and that's totally fine. If they want perfect pins they have every right to try and get them.
But different traders have different opinions, and especially about scratches these opinions can be waaaaaaaaaaaaaay apart. Through the mail... too much risk. I generally pack well, but even if the pin leaves your hands in perfect condition mail can still be responsible for that tiny little scratch.

 

[swim2sea]

I'd have passed on that trade - just based on the word "tiny". What exactly is tiny - miniscule, little, visible to the naked eye, under a microscrope, etc. Some traders just need to leave themselves an "out" which says to me they really didn't want to trade in the first place. Keep your pin and move on to the better deal.

 

[suzanneb]

I DID see a woman at 10-10-10 WDW Trading event looking at the enamel of a pin w a LARGE magnifying glass. She wasn't wearing glasses, so I don't thing there was a vision problem. Sure wish I knew who she was b/c that's WAY too much scrutiny for my taste. I would pass also

 

[Stitch2814]

Id of passed on that trade aswell, seems a bit crazy to want a pin without ANY marks etc on it as pins bought brand new could have marks on it from transit etc..least you said no and saved yourself what would of been alot of hassle.

 

[Duckmite]

I'd draw the line to sending the other trader pictures of my pin, perhaps go through some details if he/she has questions about them. But I wouldn't give carte blanche to refuse the trade based on hard to define terms like tiny.

 

[Allib]

To expand on the conversation a bit....who's responsibility is it to make sure the two people in an online trade get the pin they want?

My daughter trades pins and since she is only 12 I do most of the "book worK". Recently someone sent us a trade request and we agreed, sent them the pin and I got a note back yesterday about how they were more than a bit upset....it was a scrapper...yada yada. I told them no worries lets trade back and they went on about how I misrepresented the pin and they wanted me to pay postage for the pin. I told them no we could trade back or they could keep it. The reply back started with "Fine."....reminded me of my 10 year old. They agreed to trade back. My reply was this:

No worries, we will get it back tomorrow. I see you just started trading....your going to need to lighten up a bit and just enjoy it, it's just a shiny peice of metal. My 12 year old daughter is the trader....I'm just her secretary so I don't really get caught up in the scrapper, doesn't look right, doesn't smell right, doesn't feel right stuff. She just trades for what she likes and has made a hundred or more trades on Pinpics with no problems. If you get something you don't like just tell the other party and I am sure they will trade back....life is too short to loose sleep over a Disney pin. We will have your pin in the mail tomorrow.

​

While we decided not to trade with the trader that didn't want pins with tiny scratches I do appreciate the fact that they told us exactly what they expected and we decided we didn't want to trade. My daughter collects HM and CL pin and there are several pins that are very similar so we always make sure we ask about the details of the pin becuase people often confuse them.

So back to the orginal question....who's responsibility is it to insure that they are getting the pin they want? In my opinion the majority of the responsibility is that of the person receiving the pin. In our case my daughter doesn't care if the pattern on the back of the pin is incorrect or the tip of someone's ear is light blue and it should be dark blue or if there is a microscopic divit in Mickey's face.....a few will find this hard to believe but she just does this for FUN. If the first thing you are going to look at when a pin arrives is "XYZ" then ask me about "XYZ" before we trade and save some time and trouble for both of us.

What do others think?

​

 

[Duckmite]

To expand on the conversation a bit....who's responsibility is it to make sure the two people in an online trade get the pin they want?

If I trade for a pin that has a scrapper warning and there are details of a scrapper I ask the other party to check those details before trading. If there is a scrapper warning but no details I may ask some general questions and if I feel uneasy I don't do the trade. It is my duty to check I get the pin I want in the condition I need or with original card if that is my thing. Also, it's the other party's responsibility to check my pin in advance against the image in their minds.

After all, we are not trading for the pins on PinPics, we are trading for pins in each other's personal collections.

Doing some sleuthing and finding out about pins is part of the fun of collecting. Let your daughter do some of the "book work" as well, I'm sure she'll enjoy that, too. Also, it will be a softer way to learn not all people are nice than to find it out by some day trading away her treasures for junk. I hope she - and you as well, don't even try to deny it :lol: - will continue to have fun with her hobby as long as possible!

 

[HeatherFeather]

I also would have passed on that trade. Too many opportunities for problem. Not worth the potential hassle. I do usually ask that the pin is in good condition as I have gotten a couple in trade with some pretty noteworthy scratches and one pave one missing a jewel.

 

[Allib]

Doing some sleuthing and finding out about pins is part of the fun of collecting. Let your daughter do some of the "book work" as well, I'm sure she'll enjoy that, too. Also, it will be a softer way to learn not all people are nice than to find it out by some day trading away her treasures for junk. I hope she - and you as well, don't even try to deny it :lol: - will continue to have fun with her hobby as long as possible!

She does most of the work....I type the emails, print labels, etc all with her looking over my shoulder. Like I said she collects HM and CL pins and there are several pins that have slight differences like a back reading "Hidden Mickey" or "Cast Lanyard" and she looks at that as soon as a pin arrives and for that reason she always tells me to make sure they have the correct pin and we ask about what the pin says.

 

[Kmcwi]

I am always surprised by the expectations of some traders, especially with respect to HM/CL. Disney created this class of pin for the sole purpose of putting them in circulation. A pin in circulation will never be mint. Traders obsessed with mint should focus on pins that can be kept isolated from the point of original sale, like Disney Store pins, LE's, etc.

 

[Cicada]

I am always surprised by the expectations of some traders, especially with respect to HM/CL. Disney created this class of pin for the sole purpose of putting them in circulation. A pin in circulation will never be mint. Traders obsessed with mint should focus on pins that can be kept isolated from the point of original sale, like Disney Store pins, LE's, etc.

agreed.

it's called pin trading, after all, which implies that the pins will be handled and constantly changing hands. Somewhere along the line it's gonna pick up blemishes from handling or other unintentional occurrences (accidental dropping of pins, etc)

I don't trade very much, but in the few trades i have done, i make it a point to send a photo or two of my actual pin in an email so they can see the condition, and i will accurately describe my pin, so they know exactly what they will be getting.

 

[iamdisneydan]

I have traded with ALLIB and did a large trade (5 pins I think) She is a fine trader and all of us will run into this ocassionally. It's not a problem as long as you communicate and handle the so called problem.

Also, as mentioned, in normal handling and trading, pins will receive some wear, which is why I did a post on how to remove minor scratches and restore the finish of a pin once it is a permanent keeper, even deeper scratches.

When someone throws out a line like that, it's a RED FLAG to me and I dont need the headach. I know these people (Allib) and they are wonderful people and communicate well and if they asked me, I would have said to pass too.

 

[Rocke01]

I would check my pin. If it was in mint condition I would still trade. If it wasn't, I wouldn't. The person has a right to ask and I would rather them ask than not then demand a return. No one likes to send pins back. In the situation of the scrapper being sent, the person has the right to ask for the return. They agreed to a trade for a Disney pin and should get a Disney pin. I check my pins over and if I have a suspected scrapper it does not make my PinPics listing. Trading scrapper or counterfeit pins through the mail is a bad practice in my opinion. Yes I trade for fun but I trade for Disney Pins. In both cases the person on the other end sounds like they have been burnt in the past in trades. I was sent a WDI counterfeit by a trader who claimed they had already traded my pin away when I requested a return of the pins. I never did get the return and after taking numerous written bashings by this trader I ended up keeping the counterfeit and printing out the emails sent by the abusive trader. I now ask the person on the other end if the pin is real or not. That does not make me a bad trader it just makes me someone who doesn't want to go through that again. It is quite possible that these traders feel the same from their individual experiences through trading on line.

 

[SimbaNala]

I wouldn't have only passed on that trade, I would run the other way, too. Just to be safe. If they want a pin that perfect, they should be heading over to Disney's factory and picking the pin up there. Just so it doesn't get the minor wear and tear from anything that they may even wrap around the pin to protect it during shipping back to the U.S.

 

[Vala]

I would check my pin. If it was in mint condition I would still trade. If it wasn't, I wouldn't. The person has a right to ask and I would rather them ask than not then demand a return. No one likes to send pins back. In the situation of the scrapper being sent, the person has the right to ask for the return.

It's not about a possible scrapper, at least this is not how I am understanding the e-mail. That's a whole different issue. Asking "is it real?" or "where did you get it?" is totally fine in my book and I think in probably everyone else's too.

But they are asking about "tiny flaws", and those standards can be so totally different.

For example, one of my hobbies is photography. I know I am pretty good. But still it drives my friends nuts when they're admiring one of my pictures and I go "no, it's blurry/not centered right/insert tiny little flaw they could care less about." I know I am very critical there and they accept me being that way. But still that doesn't mean they have to agree with me.

 

[pixiewings]

I would have passed on the trade too. That person just seemed too high maintenance for my tastes. I don't mind a flaw or two but to ask about tiny scratches, that's just too much for me.

 

[erudolf]

It's not about a possible scrapper, at least this is not how I am understanding the e-mail. That's a whole different issue. Asking "is it real?" or "where did you get it?" is totally fine in my book and I think in probably everyone else's too.

But they are asking about "tiny flaws", and those standards can be so totally different.

For example, one of my hobbies is photography. I know I am pretty good. But still it drives my friends nuts when they're admiring one of my pictures and I go "no, it's blurry/not centered right/insert tiny little flaw they could care less about." I know I am very critical there and they accept me being that way. But still that doesn't mean they have to agree with me.

I think that response was to post #8 where the conversation was expanded. Maybe that should be merged with post #1 so that people don't get confused.

 

[huertajv]

I agree with the majority of everyone here. If you are looking for a particular pin, in a certain condition and want to be sure it is not a scrapper, than ask....but ask nicely.

If you are very concerned about scrappers, than trade in person. There are certain pins, I will not trade out on Pinpics, because really I have no idea if they are scrappers and I need to make sure that if someone wants it, then they can see what they are getting. I would hate for someone to think I am trying to cheat them.

Now, have I been cheated, well it depends how you look at it. I have done trades, where I receive a pin that has obviously had the backing glued back on, crystals missing, chipped pieces, etc. I could not get mad at the person, although in most cases you would assume to get a pin in better condition, but then again, I did not ask about those things.

I have some vinylmations on my trade list and people always state in their trade request that they not be scrappers. Unless I purchased the pin myself, I will not trade via mail. I will allow someone to view it first, so we are all on the same page.

I have also had people come up to me at the park and state very loudly and rudely that a certain pin was a scrapper. Well guess what, it was a real pin, I had just purchased from the par and had the receipt. Well for those who were around, but walked off, they never got the whole story, so now they scrutinize me, thinking I trade scrappers. ARGH!

If you have an opinion, nicely state it. If you can't then don't say anything.

Just my opinion.

 

[erudolf]

Now, have I been cheated, well it depends how you look at it. I have done trades, where I receive a pin that has obviously had the backing glued back on, crystals missing, chipped pieces, etc. I could not get mad at the person, although in most cases you would assume to get a pin in better condition, but then again, I did not ask about those things.

If you have particular wants, like it has to be on the card or in absolutely perfect condition, then yes, it is your responsibility to ask. However, I don't think you should have to ask questions like the above. That should be an absolute given. Pinpcs rules clearly state that the pin shouldn't have any missing pieces or significant scratches. To not disclose that information or not say that the pin had been repaired isn't acceptable and the other person shouldn't have to ask.

And when it comes to scrappers, if there is a warning, you should ask just to be extra sure, but ultimately I think the person trading it is responsible for making sure it is a legit pin. In the above situation, if the pin traded was indeed a scrapper, I think it is perfectly reasonable for the other person to ask to trade back and ask for their postage to be reimbursed. They didn't spend their money and time to get a fake so the person that sent it to them should compensate for that.

 

[pixiewings]

I did a trade on another Disney board, it was a pin swap, the rules stated no scrappers or fantasy pins (unless the fantasy pin was a bonus) and you had to send 2 pins. So I sent my person 2 pins, nice pins to be honest and I got 2 pins from someone else. In my package I added a few extras, nothing that was necessary but I did it because I wanted to, so my gal got 2 nice pins (1 LE, 1 HM that she was looking for), a little tube of hand lotion and some lip balm, again I knew the lotion and lip balm were extra but I wanted to send those so I did. My package was 2 crappy pins.....yup, 1 was a scrapper and I had the other one already. The one I already had was scratched and the scrapper was...well....a scrapper! lol I wasn't very happy so I never did it there again. I keep thinking that I'll go back and do it again but since the organizer didn't seem to care that I got a scrapper and a damaged pin (the scratches were not little, they were quite deep and very noticeable, not a pin you could trade) I haven't done it. I guess since I was the newb it wasn't important that I got the short stick. lol I felt cheated on that trade so I've been slightly more cautious here.......that doesn't mean I won't trade, it just means I'm more careful with my trades then I was before.

I too have some pins I won't trade via mail, some that are slightly damaged (I don't trade anything that has large, deep or obvious scratches, missing paint, etc etc), some I'm just not sure if they are real or scrappers, stuff like that, I still need to get stuff up on my pinpics page but when I do get to it I'll make sure not to list those.

 

[Nettiejeanne]

I now ask if the potential trade is a scrapper. I had someone send me a scrapper in a trade once and when I asked them to trade me back, she just said "Well... I guess you shouldn't trade over the internet, then, should you?" Still really bothers me.
I have quite a collection of scrappers, actually.

I would've run away from that trade, too! I don't get THAT picky... just don't like the fake and damaged and/or missing jewels, etc!

 

[Tabbikat2219]

I have a person (I wont name Names) who i have traded with thru pin pics and she always replies with if your pin is not in mint condition, no scratches, blemishes ect. and it HAS to be on the original backer card. It got to be such a hassle I just dont even reply to her anymore. Also had one who complained that a hidden mickey didnt have a shiney enough nose. This is my HOBBY not my life I dont have a magnifying glass or microscope and anyone taking it to that level really needs some perspective. I dont as my own rule send pins with scratches etc. I would have passed on that trade as well. Its not worth the headache.

 

[RIDisneyPinGuy]

I've had the same reply from a trader, also for a trade on a rack pin... I passed. I just saw the trade going bad, and as much as I wanted the pin, I did not want the headache from it. For me, pin trading is a fun activity, and I wish to keep it that way. Unless the deal is for rare LE pins or a pin that should be in "new" condidtion (ie: just released) that's just not a good way to reply to a trader IMO.
IF a pin has known scrappers, and the scrapper can be identified by known details, I think it's ok for a trader to ask that the other party check the pin first. But still, asking politely is a must.