Help Change DSF

[Psycho Pixie]

If they won't increase the edition sizes, then I agree that 1 per person is fairer because it give more people the chance to own the pin.

...BUT, the problem with many of the arguments being made here is that they focus on fairness of opportunity to get the pins and/or selling more pins to collectors rather than re-sellers. Don't get me wrong...I want to buy pins at a reasonable price too, but Disney isn't going to change anything based on either of those concerns, nor should they, because they are irrelevant to the bottom line. Their primary aim, and their responsibility to their shareholders, is to maximize profit. They have the numbers, so they are very aware that if they make a certain type of pin (Tangled would be the most obvious example), people will camp out for days and the pin will sell out immediately. They could sell more of that particular pin AND make more profit per pin, because the more you make the cheaper it is to make each pin, but they don't make more. The only explanation for their failure to do so is that the hype serves a marketing purpose. Assuming that's the case, the only reason to change the way the pins are sold is to prevent violence on their property, because of the liability issues, or to prevent associated trouble that could adversely affect their public image. Frankly, a news story about hundreds of people lining up for a pin, and a little pushing, shoving, and name-calling on the neighbouring parking lot, probably increases the marketing value of these releases.

The only way Disney will likely change how they do releases, and the edition sizes is if they see a change in their profit margin.

Ways that could happen:

• Someone gets hurt during a release line up and sues them.
• reduced quality causes the people to stop buying and the pins sit on shelves for days.
• security and staffing for the line ups, needs harm the profit margin greatly enough to make a sizable dent.

 

[drb195]

I say they just go to Limited Release. Sell as many pins as they can while the movie is playing, then when the show run is done, the pins are gone forever. For non-release releated pins that they do, LE 1000-1500.

 

[markheardjr]

Yea I can see how it sounds selfish, let's not forget Why DSF is so popular. Low edition sizes they trade Well, look at my wants list not much is left and the stuff that is is hard. The point of this hobby is to get pins and trade for ones you want. You can't always make everyone happy, and it'd not fare to limit everyone's number just to make it fare. That's the point of a limited edition item the fact that few get them. It keeps the hobby alive and going.

As I stated, I want the pins for myself, not to trade. The hobby may have trading but the whole reason to trade is to add to your collection. Collecting is the real reason for the hobby. DSF sells pins I want for my collection. My collection comes first before just acquiring traders. I could trade them for other pins I want, but if those ARE the pins I want then I want a fair shot at them....so I don't have to trade a ton of my other traders for them.

You may want to just take them and trade them for harder pins on your wants, but that is almost as bad as the resellers if you are trying to trade at the eBay price for trade value. I like DSF pins for the pins themselves, not the potential they have to bring me other things, be it money or other pins.

 

[Psycho Pixie]

I say they just go to Limited Release. Sell as many pins as they can while the movie is playing, then when the show run is done, the pins are gone forever. For non-release releated pins that they do, LE 1000-1500.

that oddly enough would harm the profit margin. They would need to reduce the price because the pins are no longer LE. They would not be as tradeable due to there being so many more in circulation, so the folks buying them "as traders" wouldnt anymore. I don't think the increased edition size, or changing to LR would help the situation. my opinion,

 

[markheardjr]

that oddly enough would harm the profit margin. They would need to reduce the price because the pins are no longer LE. They would not be as tradeable due to there being so many more in circulation, so the folks buying them "as traders" wouldnt anymore. I don't think the increased edition size, or changing to LR would help the situation. my opinion,

Agree. Also, I don't think they have enough turn around time to keep re-ordering another batch of LR pins and they sure don't want to order too many to begin with. I do think they'd benefit from some HUGE LE size pins for their racks. LE5000 Rapunzel eating at the Soda Fountain bar. That pin would steadily sell and sell and sell and bring more and more and more people to the shop. LE3000 Pascal color changing into ice cream flavors. LE5000 Up characters. LE3000 Vanellopee. Those kinds of HUGE LE sizes. The will sell out but since there are so many they will keep bringing people in the door.

 

[drb195]

that oddly enough would harm the profit margin. They would need to reduce the price because the pins are no longer LE. They would not be as tradeable due to there being so many more in circulation, so the folks buying them "as traders" wouldnt anymore. I don't think the increased edition size, or changing to LR would help the situation. my opinion,

There is absolutely no way for DSF to change a thing without hurting their "profit margin" if they do not up edition sizes. Upping LE size to 1000 will not hurt their margin as they will all sell out still. going to lottery system while a fair idea, will cost them money, which if we are talking about profits now won't work either, plus people can undermine the RSP system as well. not to mention the crying that will happen non stop when people are not a part of the "chosen ones". No one will ever be happy. either leave it the way it is and certain people get upset, or change to online rsp and alot more people will be upset, or up the LE size to 1000 and everybody wins.

 

[Lamorak]

I think we'd all like to see DSF at least try upping the LE sizes with known fast selling characters. They could even begin gradually with a 100 or 200 bump in the number of pins to attempt to gauge where the pin sales will eventually even out to taking more than a day to sell out.

In case they don't know, here's a list of fast sellers:

Anything related to Tangled or Up
Jessica only - Preferably full body
Alice in Wonderland
Beloved Tales
Stitch

What won't sell out quickly and could remain low LE:

Fab 5
Anything with Free D
Stickers
Dangles
Bubbles - They can break and are hard to put in pin books.

Others may feel free to add to the lists, all in a helpful effort to let them know what will and will not sell.

 

[drb195]

I have said this before, and I have said this to Ed a couple of times, both for PTD and regular releases. Take this weeks train release. Five similar pins, all LE 300. Take those 1500 pins and wrap them in black plastic and sell the whole lot as 1500. Then sell 3 per person so that way 500 people have a chance to buy. Heck, sell 5 per person, 300 still guaranteed pins. then when people don't have full sets, they will be trading like crazy to get, or to get more of whatever the hot one is.(Cheshire or Alice this week) This is the way WDI does the mystery sorcerer hats. They even vary edition sizes to allow a "chaser" to be a lesser pin. DSF could do that as well. They would still have their sales, and most everyone will have their pins.

 

[markheardjr]

There is absolutely no way for DSF to change a thing without hurting their "profit margin" if they do not up edition sizes. Upping LE size to 1000 will not hurt their margin as they will all sell out still. going to lottery system while a fair idea, will cost them money, which if we are talking about profits now won't work either, plus people can undermine the RSP system as well. not to mention the crying that will happen non stop when people are not a part of the "chosen ones". No one will ever be happy. either leave it the way it is and certain people get upset, or change to online rsp and alot more people will be upset, or up the LE size to 1000 and everybody wins.

You can't undermine an RSP system that requires proof of ID at sign up and when you pay. And furthering the system to flag no-shows and banning them for a year after 2 or 3 no shows will help keep out the riftraft. If you have to show ID to get a registration number and then you have to show ID to pick up pins, you can't cheat that unless you're an identical twin and they go and not you. But I haven't seen many identical twins in pin trading, so that's kind of an extreme scenario. Let kids use parents ID's, obviously kids can't come on their own, so maybe let 2 or 3 parents/guardians provide info and if the kid is chosen let one of them come and provide their ID. Take the kids picture and add it to their profile so you can't get kids with gender neutral names to just show up if one of the kids is chosen. Also, I say keep the rule, no kids under 4 can buy pins.

Alas, I don't think they will ever do online RSP. Not because it cost them a small initial fee. You could sell a special pin for the DSF RSP and make all your money back instantly. I think the real reason online RSP won't work is it will limit how many people show up. DSF wants as many people to come as possible. They would take a crowd of 1000 if they all came. Even if they only had LE150 pins to sell! They love the hype. They see it as a sign they are doing a good job. I see it as turning a blind eye to what they are really doing which is alienating their core crowd of fans that have been loyal for years and inviting in troublesome profiteers with questionable morals that just showed up and will quickly leave them high and dry if no money is to be made. But that's my take on it.

 

[markheardjr]

I have said this before, and I have said this to Ed a couple of times, both for PTD and regular releases. Take this weeks train release. Five similar pins, all LE 300. Take those 1500 pins and wrap them in black plastic and sell the whole lot as 1500. Then sell 3 per person so that way 500 people have a chance to buy. Heck, sell 5 per person, 300 still guaranteed pins. then when people don't have full sets, they will be trading like crazy to get, or to get more of whatever the hot one is.(Cheshire or Alice this week) This is the way WDI does the mystery sorcerer hats. They even vary edition sizes to allow a "chaser" to be a lesser pin. DSF could do that as well. They would still have their sales, and most everyone will have their pins.

I actually pleaded with merchandise CM's to do random PODM's as an optional faster line. Put 2 in a bag, staple it up. And let whoever wants a "fastpass" for PODM purchase to go in that line. You don't get to look, you just get to buy and leave. So much better than waiting hours upon hours to see scratched scenes that have been picked over by the people who got there early so they could run around and buy more than their 2. I could care less about Mulan, PTC, Lonesome Ghost, etc. Just give me my 2 and I'll go. Don't even care to see them.

 

[starry_solo]

I could care less about Mulan, PTC, Lonesome Ghost, etc. Just give me my 2 and I'll go. Don't even care to see them.

Hey Mark, no ragging on my Mulan! :rant: :shock: :eek2:

^
|
not meant to be mean at all

 

[Lamorak]

Speaking of Disneyland... They were able to adjust to the whole PODM madness by restricting sales to three locations and requiring a wristband for purchase. They allowed lines and, for the most part, everything went smoothly and in a largely orderly fashion. It had gotten to the point where there were even extras available after 2pm.

Prior to that, they had people madly rushing around to all the locations where pin were sold and snapping them all up. And when I say madly rushing, I mean that people were literaly running to each location.

Disneyland saw a safety problem and did the best they could to stop the people from running all over the resort. Was it perfect? No. But it did help tremendously and the overall goal of safety was largely achieved. Not enough kudos went to Disneyland for making those releases much smoother than they had previously been.

 

[markheardjr]

Hey Mark, no ragging on my Mulan! :rant: :shock: :eek2:

^
|
not meant to be mean at all

I collected one of every princess in the cell of a PODM. So I got a Mulan and kept it. But I had to wait 4 hours to look at junk cells with holes and scratches while nervously wondering if I'd make it work in time for my staff meeting. I watched as people who were behind me in line to get wristbands, used character breakfasts to get into the parks early. They got their cells, much better scenes I might add, and then came out to gloat while I was still in the DTD line waiting. Just put 2 randomly in a little Disneyland baggy, take my money, and let me go. So I don't have to wait for people, like the lady with the jewler's loupe. Geez.

 

[Ozzie1988]

I have said this before, and I have said this to Ed a couple of times, both for PTD and regular releases. Take this weeks train release. Five similar pins, all LE 300. Take those 1500 pins and wrap them in black plastic and sell the whole lot as 1500. Then sell 3 per person so that way 500 people have a chance to buy. Heck, sell 5 per person, 300 still guaranteed pins. then when people don't have full sets, they will be trading like crazy to get, or to get more of whatever the hot one is.(Cheshire or Alice this week) This is the way WDI does the mystery sorcerer hats. They even vary edition sizes to allow a "chaser" to be a lesser pin. DSF could do that as well. They would still have their sales, and most everyone will have their pins.

That's just too much work, what if you only want one pin? Or when will you know a pin ram out? It's too random and would just cost more

 

[Melonballer]

Figuring out a system to make things fair is tricky. A similar example is Pax Prime, the Seattle based video game convention. Tickets sold out in hours. I fully agree with the things they said in their sell out thread. Ultimately when you have something that has more demand than supply anything you do just takes something from one person and gives it to someone else. Someone is always going to be disappointed.

In case you want to read their FAQ it is here.

http://prime.paxsite.com/news/the-registration-sellout-faq

 

[Ozzie1988]

As I stated, I want the pins for myself, not to trade. The hobby may have trading but the whole reason to trade is to add to your collection. Collecting is the real reason for the hobby. DSF sells pins I want for my collection. My collection comes first before just acquiring traders. I could trade them for other pins I want, but if those ARE the pins I want then I want a fair shot at them....so I don't have to trade a ton of my other traders for them.

You may want to just take them and trade them for harder pins on your wants, but that is almost as bad as the resellers if you are trying to trade at the eBay price for trade value. I like DSF pins for the pins themselves, not the potential they have to bring me other things, be it money or other pins.

Mark that's Why it's called Disney Pin Trading. There are tables at almost all the Parks to pin trade. They even have a pin trading night. This was a whole idea with pins to start off with, when you miss a pin or wand an older pin how do you get it? You trade for it. Value fluctuates like any collectible, what do you still expect to get spider man issue #1 for 25¢? Same thing with older pins and older anything, are antique dealers sharks? It goes with any hobby. Who know Maybe pins will die down remember Ty bean bears they where crazy expensive McDonald's had special rules for when they came out as happy meals. (I was 12 and there lol) you have a rare point of view and I wish everyone saw pins like you do.

 

[Ozzie1988]

I'm glad piece of Disney movie is over, but if they ever were to do it again I think using one iconic cell would be okay and just make 2000 of the dame thing. But let's stay on dSF let's not go too far of course

 

[MrsTheKing]

I just don't see how any of this discussion is necessary. Disney has been doing fine on their own for a good many many many many years. They will continue to do business their own way. Obviously, they don't want insanity at any of their stores, but with all the complaining, they don't even have to announce releases. I'm sure they know what is going to sell and what is popular, they have people to research that. While a lot of these suggestions are logical and intelligent, Disney doesn't owe anybody anything. We choose to collect and buy and frequent their parks. It's our choice and if we don't buy, someone else will. Don't go to the Soda Fountain if it's a huge headache. None of us "NEED" pins, we "WANT" pins. It's supposed to be fun.

 

[Diablo]

I just don't see how any of this discussion is necessary. Disney has been doing fine on their own for a good many many many many years. They will continue to do business their own way. Obviously, they don't want insanity at any of their stores, but with all the complaining, they don't even have to announce releases. I'm sure they know what is going to sell and what is popular, they have people to research that. While a lot of these suggestions are logical and intelligent, Disney doesn't owe anybody anything. We choose to collect and buy and frequent their parks. It's our choice and if we don't buy, someone else will. Don't go to the Soda Fountain if it's a huge headache. None of us "NEED" pins, we "WANT" pins. It's supposed to be fun.

Right on. :bigthumb:

 

[Ozzie1988]

I just don't see how any of this discussion is necessary. Disney has been doing fine on their own for a good many many many many years. They will continue to do business their own way. Obviously, they don't want insanity at any of their stores, but with all the complaining, they don't even have to announce releases. I'm sure they know what is going to sell and what is popular, they have people to research that. While a lot of these suggestions are logical and intelligent, Disney doesn't owe anybody anything. We choose to collect and buy and frequent their parks. It's our choice and if we don't buy, someone else will. Don't go to the Soda Fountain if it's a huge headache. None of us "NEED" pins, we "WANT" pins. It's supposed to be fun.

Its just debate we don't expect or demand things to change its just a way discussing ways we want to improve and or change. Some people where unhappy and asked me to put this up, no one is forcing you to read or take part of the discussion if you don't want to that's fine. If you want to add a point of view (you seam to be happy the ways things go) than fine you are more than welcome to say so.

 

[Ozzie1988]

It's the point of the boards to talk and have conversations, not everything has to be your cup of tea Alice

 

[markheardjr]

Mark that's Why it's called Disney Pin Trading. There are tables at almost all the Parks to pin trade. They even have a pin trading night. This was a whole idea with pins to start off with, when you miss a pin or wand an older pin how do you get it? You trade for it. Value fluctuates like any collectible, what do you still expect to get spider man issue #1 for 25¢? Same thing with older pins and older anything, are antique dealers sharks? It goes with any hobby. Who know Maybe pins will die down remember Ty bean bears they where crazy expensive McDonald's had special rules for when they came out as happy meals. (I was 12 and there lol) you have a rare point of view and I wish everyone saw pins like you do.

You have 354 pins listed in your pinpics collection. If the point were to only trade them, why would you ever put pins into the collection category and not in the trades category? (Which you have 104 of.) As I stated, the real reason for pins is to collect them. They are a collectibles. Not a tradables. As a way to further your collection you pin trade. You can also pin buy, primary market (Disney,) or secondary market (eBay, DPF, My-D Pins, etc etc etc.) Pins were sold with the intent of collecting long before they were intended for trading. Cast lanyard trading started in 2002. Pins have been around for decades but were meant for a new collectible segment when they started the Millenium celebration in 1999. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_pin_trading

The trading phenomenon that is pin trading today is driven by Disney's rule you cannot sell pins at the park or on their land. Obviously to avoid a flea market of stands selling pins and taking up tourists dollars. The initial pins were just sold at events, trading sort of was the obvious route to take since you couldn't just sell pins.

I'm not sure you could ever convince me it's a trading hobby first and foremost. It is a collectible hobby. The trading is only a vehicle for non-currency exchange. The stock market breaks shares into dollars when sold and pay dollars when bought. But since we can't do that, we just trade pin for pin. But many now just do sell on eBay, buy on eBay. But like the stock brokers who get a cut of the transaction, so does eBay. If you trade at least the value stays in the hobby. But that's a different story. But the main purpose is to collect. I rarely trade for a trader. I trade for a keeper. I do buy pins I dont' want to trade away. But I do try to buy the pins at retail cost that I want for my collection rather than have to go secondary market or trade for it. As I stated, I buy DSF pins I like for my collection first. If I can get an extra or if I just don't like it, then I will trade it. But you won't see me at DSF for the Alice train. I dont' want it and don't care to trade it. I'd rather have the May the 4th and Revenge of the 5th pins since that is what I collect. Collecting is heart of pins.

 

[drb195]

That's just too much work, what if you only want one pin? Or when will you know a pin ram out? It's too random and would just cost more

See your own answer in post #117. dude, you are starting to contradict yourself.

 

[drb195]

that oddly enough would harm the profit margin. They would need to reduce the price because the pins are no longer LE. They would not be as tradeable due to there being so many more in circulation, so the folks buying them "as traders" wouldnt anymore. I don't think the increased edition size, or changing to LR would help the situation. my opinion,

Actually it would not hurt their profit margin as the overall cost per unit would drop the more units you order. People bought up LE 2000 pins in less than a day and sell them for over $100 each. granted that DSF would have to up their game IMMENSELY as far as quality of pin, but it is not difficult to see DSF le 1000 still being valuable.

 

[Ozzie1988]

You have 354 pins listed in your pinpics collection. If the point were to only trade them, why would you ever put pins into the collection category and not in the trades category? (Which you have 104 of.) As I stated, the real reason for pins is to collect them. They are a collectibles. Not a tradables. As a way to further your collection you pin trade. You can also pin buy, primary market (Disney,) or secondary market (eBay, DPF, My-D Pins, etc etc etc.) Pins were sold with the intent of collecting long before they were intended for trading. Cast lanyard trading started in 2002. Pins have been around for decades but were meant for a new collectible segment when they started the Millenium celebration in 1999. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_pin_trading

The trading phenomenon that is pin trading today is driven by Disney's rule you cannot sell pins at the park or on their land. Obviously to avoid a flea market of stands selling pins and taking up tourists dollars. The initial pins were just sold at events, trading sort of was the obvious route to take since you couldn't just sell pins.

I'm not sure you could ever convince me it's a trading hobby first and foremost. It is a collectible hobby. The trading is only a vehicle for non-currency exchange. The stock market breaks shares into dollars when sold and pay dollars when bought. But since we can't do that, we just trade pin for pin. But many now just do sell on eBay, buy on eBay. But like the stock brokers who get a cut of the transaction, so does eBay. If you trade at least the value stays in the hobby. But that's a different story. But the main purpose is to collect. I rarely trade for a trader. I trade for a keeper. I do buy pins I dont' want to trade away. But I do try to buy the pins at retail cost that I want for my collection rather than have to go secondary market or trade for it. As I stated, I buy DSF pins I like for my collection first. If I can get an extra or if I just don't like it, then I will trade it. But you won't see me at DSF for the Alice train. I dont' want it and don't care to trade it. I'd rather have the May the 4th and Revenge of the 5th pins since that is what I collect. Collecting is heart of pins.

We are getting off subject, but why not continue this is a very interesting subject.

I have traded from my collection I was an Ariel Completist, as time went one I looked at my pins and thought some where ugly and I didn't have to get every pin, so I traded and gave out about 70% of my Ariel collection only keeping gifts, and my most wanted pins, to the small select groups of traders i still trade from my collection. My lists are never updated even my owns is way off only wants are updated regularly. I really don't care much for p.p. now a days it's just not the same. (Another story)

"Disney pin trading is the buying and trading of collectible pins" the fist sentence by the way. They go hand and had and I don't think they can be separated. I agree with you about collections and traders witch brings be back to the main subject. I feel that it is unfair that I move my schedule around to wait in line, and that because more than expected show up they limit everyone to only one set. It's not a surprise what comes out at DSF or the crowds they attract you have time to request days off or trade shifts with other coworkers. I don't like waiting in lines i truly hated going because I have an OCD with crowds and being in one spot for too long. But I more than enjoy my time with friends, at times I don't even buy pins I let others in line use me to buy more sets (I do keep intention in mind). I do hope a better system get put in place soon because iron man is coming up. For me the last BT was the worst I have ever seen; even the heart boxes went by smother than this. The days where just as long if not longer but it was such a easy and simple line that I wish others where like that as well. I don't know what the future holds at DSF but I do hope things only get better and that all this just turns into an old memory.