April DSF release V2

Aquata · Mar 20, 2013

markheardjr said:
In my draft I told them they need a good programmer and to toy with the idea of an added feature to the lottery system. Weight the likelyhood of an account based on past selections or non-selections. So for the first time, everyone has a 100% ratio for selection. If you get selected, drop it to 95%, if you don't get selected, raise it to 105% for example. And so on. So if you were picked 3 times in a row you now have an 85% chance of a normal selection, if you were skipped 3 times, you have a 115% chance, 30% more likely than the other person. But have a floor and ceiling, say 75% is the lowest adn 125% is the highest. So it can't be manipulated and everyone always has a reasonable shot. Just a way to help the bell curve so to speak of who gets pins.
Also, I suggested that you can hold special raffles for people not selected more than a certain number of times. So say, if you're not selected for an entire months of releases, (based on history, probably 3 times a month,) so if you don't get picked at all those 3 times (but you did sign up,) you get entered into that monthly raffle. Prizes could range from pins, to sundae's, to DVD's, to free movie packages after the next release you are selected for. Maybe we can get DSF to release a pair of AP's for each release and raffle those!

Also, resellers who hire employees have at most 7 people, that I know of, right now. If we go to this system, yes, they will probably get some more to boost their chances, but I garauntee you the odds are against them now. Where they were for sure getting 7 employee's plus their pins, now they have 8 entries into the lottery so lets say half get picked, that's only 4 to a reseller now, not 8 like before. That's 4 more actual pin traders getting pins. Also, I said if the person gets selected and doesn't show up 3 times, suspend their account for 6 months to a year. I am sure the resellers will run into a situation where if they just get 20 names to come, some of those people will end up not being available and eventually get suspended out for a while.

I don't know much you can do about resellers that hire staff. If people are willing to wait in line for hourly pay to get someone pins, I don't know how to stop that. Even if you require each to pay for their own the reseller will just give them each cash. But kids also need parents to pay so that's not really fair. All I know how to do is limit their possibilities of how may sets they can get. A lottery means they have to have even more people willing to go, not just the base 6 or 7 people. Or their chances diminish so low it's not profitable as a full time job to bum rush DSF releases. I want to deter people from trying to beat the system. Hiring 7 butts + the 1 reseller's set to buy 16 sets of the BT pins for April will probably net someone $5000, and they pay only $113 a person or $904. So if you hire 7 guys to sit in a chair for 24 hours you can gross $4000. That is why this is enticing people to go to these lengths. You pay 7 guys $10 a hours for 20 hours and your labor cost is $1400, off your $4000 profit and you net $2600 in a weekend, payroll tax free. Thanks to DSF. That is why people do it. If DSF can't figure that out and a way to deter it then I honestly don't think the care about pin trading. They just want profit, no matter how they get it. But knowing Ed, Patty, Theresa, etc, I don't think it's ALL about the almighty dollar, yes they need to stay solvent, but they do want to carry on pin trading with their part and care for our community. We are trying to help. They keep releasing amazing pins we ask for but then have to hear all the heartache and pissed off people when it's nearly impossibly for a working adult to get the pins they want. They are allowing self-employeed, unemployed, college student, and retiree's the huge benefit of making tax free money off their pins. I know I can take vacation and try to work out going to a release, but not 3 times a month. No boss in this economy will let that fly. So DSF continues to open their doors to people scrounging for a buck, not to pin trade and continue on the tradition, but to make a dollar. Have I sold pins, yes, tons. But I don't go with the intent to go straight to eBay or here on DPF. I keep my pins and try to trade them. If after a while they don't trade, and they have skyrocketed to $100, I'll sell it. I am not above selling or resellers. But I don't do it for the profit, I do it to trade, get pins I want, and for a hobby.

+1000

I'm not at all against re-selling pins on a whole. I've done it too, I think most people have had to at some point but I am against the hiring of multitudes of people to get the pins for you at these releases. I get why it's done and personally, I think it's injuring the hobby and creating bad impressions towards ALL re-sellers, and it breeds animosity (understandably). I do believe there's good re-sellers. For example... I probably would not have been able to obtain the Good Luck Bad Luck pin series that's out at WDW this year if it were not for re-sellers. Trading can be tough and so sometimes it's easier to buy. I have NO problem or issue paying someone a little extra for their time and gas spent for going to pick me up the pin at cost. Recently I got the Lady and the Tramp GLBL pin off Ebay for $22.00. The pin retails at $15.95. That person really, with eBay fees, couldn't have made more than barely a five dollar profit off that pin but thanks to them, I was able to get the pin I normally wouldn't get.

Now for an example of BAD re-sellers - there is no reason that you and your spouse need to show up on the day of the carousel princess pin release and snag 25 boxes each of solely the Rapunzel/Merida carousel pins and just those pins alone and plop them on eBay for $50.00 to $60.00 a pop (which was what people were asking initially when it began, now they've pretty much tanked to $15 to $20 because they turned out to be not the nicest pins and now those same re-sellers just want to get rid of them). And that's just TWO people...imagine what someone who "hired" 7 people walked away with?

I hate hearing about stuff like that. That's greedy re-selling. Honestly? I sometimes sell a pin or two here and there on eBay because I HAVE to make back my costs for this hobby somehow. I'm not going to go into my personal situation but my money at the moment is pretty limited so I'm left with little choice sometimes. I try to do more pick ups though and this is also why I do pick ups at cost for members. To also simultaneously help some people get pins at retail cost. Also, in doing this, I'm not out any money save for gas and parking. That's where selling a pin or two on eBay comes in. Even when I do sell on eBay, I try and usually list for less than what the general sellers are asking for. I try to only make enough to cover the cost of the pin, plus gas and parking. It's not much but it helps me out here and there (sorry for rambling, I just don't want anyone jumping down my throat for confessing this).
I never ever sell zaps or pins that were gifted to me, pins from my personal collection (I would only do this if a family member were ill/needed medical treatment and money was scarce) and I never try and buy pins from fellow pin traders/collectors at a cheap cost with the sole intent to flip them for a higher cost. I don't bid in auctions here solely to get a nice, grail pin and turn around and sell it to profit. I also don't bring a party of 4 or 5 people with me to get extra pins to sell. I only sell what I'm willing to part with personally when I go and pick them up and only what I myself can obtain and I only do this sometimes. I don't go to every single release and always sell, sell, sell. I know my financial situation will change someday (perhaps even someday soon) and when it does, I look forward to having a steady income to help support my hobby so that I can quit re-selling overall.

I feel your frustration too and I too desire for something to change. I wish that there was a way to single out the mass re-sellers and get them banned from DSF. I know there isn't really a way to do this realistically without starting a witch hunt and having people pointing fingers at each other. I hate even saying that because I know of a couple people who do this and they are decent, nay NICE, folks but I do not approve of their methods of hiring individuals to garner extra pins at these releases. It isn't personal but at this point I think it's hurting the hobby and causing some pin traders who want the pin for their collection/to trade (basically why Disney pins were created in the first place) to miss out at obtaining a pin at cost even if they show up the establishment.
In short: It's making it harder and harder for the people this hobby was intended for to partake.

Overall though I agree with your post Mark and I appreciate that you've really given this a lot of thought and are pro-actively thinking of ways to try and remedy the situation for people who are in it for the hobby.

hopemax · Mar 20, 2013

markheardjr said:
If DSF can't figure that out and a way to deter it then I honestly don't think the care about pin trading. They just want profit, no matter how they get it. But knowing Ed, Patty, Theresa, etc, I don't think it's ALL about the almighty dollar, yes they need to stay solvent, but they do want to carry on pin trading with their part and care for our community.

They should care. If what is being said is true, some people in line have been paid to be there, DSF is losing customers. It may not seem so because pin profits are the same regardless of who pays. But any pin buyer who does not have the potential to be a regular or semi-regular customer is taking a spot from those who could. Where they are shooting themselves in the foot, is with people that will make DSF a place to go to watch movies, have a bite to eat, buy DVD releases, etc. Those are the profits they are sacrificing. People being paid to stand in line, are never going to be those people. And there have got to be people who have given up going to releases because they live too far away, work schedules don't allow for lineups, etc who are writing off any business with DSF because it's not worth the drive. If the goal of the pin releases is to generate traffic from people who will spend money partaking in other DSF revenue streams, they sure as heck better be doing that. Getting the same people, over and over who only buy pins and PTD sundaes, doesn't really do much to grow the overall DSF business. Especially, if they end up having to hire extra staff and security to make sure riots don't break out. DSF should be the ones most helped by doing these releases, but it seems to me the entities getting the most bang are the operators of the H&H parking garage, and whoever the closest fast food/drink suppliers are. They probably love DSF's crazy pin people, because their business HAS improved in a measurable way.

Psycho Pixie · Mar 20, 2013

hopemax said:
They should care. If what is being said is true, some people in line have been paid to be there, DSF is losing customers. It may not seem so because pin profits are the same regardless of who pays. But any pin buyer who does not have the potential to be a regular or semi-regular customer is taking a spot from those who could. Where they are shooting themselves in the foot, is with people that will make DSF a place to go to watch movies, have a bite to eat, buy DVD releases, etc. Those are the profits they are sacrificing. People being paid to stand in line, are never going to be those people. And there have got to be people who have given up going to releases because they live too far away, work schedules don't allow for lineups, etc who are writing off any business with DSF because it's not worth the drive. If the goal of the pin releases is to generate traffic from people who will spend money partaking in other DSF revenue streams, they sure as heck better be doing that. Getting the same people, over and over who only buy pins and PTD sundaes, doesn't really do much to grow the overall DSF business. Especially, if they end up having to hire extra staff and security to make sure riots don't break out. DSF should be the ones most helped by doing these releases, but it seems to me the entities getting the most bang are the operators of the H&H parking garage, and whoever the closest fast food/drink suppliers are. They probably love DSF's crazy pin people, because their business HAS improved in a measurable way.

totally agree here. while they still sell out the pins, those guys paid to sit in line dont wander the store, looking at the plushies and toys and movies. They don't buy anything else. They also don't hang out with the folks in line, are not part of the pin community and might (might not) be more likely to cause problems IN the line.

hopemax · Mar 20, 2013

And I wonder how all the pin buyers affect the non-pin customers. TheOtherSteve mentioned Oz movie goers buying PTD sundaes, but what about the theoretical family that has a tradition to buy milkshakes or a single scoop cone to-go after the movie. Were they able to get them yesterday, since I think someone said all the PTD people had to get in the To-go line? I could easily see my Dad, when I was younger, taking one look at the line, his blood pressure rising, dragging the family out, tears because no treat, and then making the decision that since it was a horrible ending, that we were NEVER doing that again. God forbid if traffic was bad, that would for sure end the tradition. Maybe you predict running into a situation like that on a Friday night or weekend afternoon, but a Tuesday should be safe.

April DSF release V2

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Aquata

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hopemax

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Psycho Pixie

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hopemax

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April DSF release V2

Aquata

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hopemax

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Psycho Pixie

Vacations are a grand thing

hopemax

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