Fantasy pins and pin prices

[bretu]

Are fantasy pins causing values to drop? Hoping to have a friendly discussion. Get everyone's opinion. Thanks

 

[starry_solo]

I think the people that can afford higher prices for pins have decreased in number.

People are tired of waiting for Disney to make quality pins so some have turned to fantasy pins, some of which sell for a high price.

But people are recycling the same ideas: seasons, profiles, bottles, beloved tales. What's next? Fantasy Gomes?

 

[FarFromDreams]

There are Fantasy "Gomes inspired" pins on Instagram actually :rofl: The person really puts their all into them but they just don't quite hit the mark for me.

I think they're neat but I imagine it'll die out after a while, especially if Disney continues to improve their releases.

 

[this_and_that]

I think that folks are paying so much money for so very many fantasy pins that many of these folks simply have less money to spend on real Disney pins, particularly on the secondary markets.

 

[shooting4ownhand]

I think that folks are paying so much money for so very many fantasy pins that many of these folks simply have less money to spend on real Disney pins, particularly on the secondary markets.

That is not necessarily a bad thing. It will force sellers to drop the price of real disney pins if no one is willing to pay their prices, either because they cannot afford it or don't want to spend hundreds on a single pin.

 

[a4matte]

Either way I wouldn't mind pin prices dropping. I've noticed a HUGE increase in even just the short time I've been collecting. Some pins I bought for ~$50 when I started just a few years ago are now listed at $200+ out of nowhere.

 

[PrinceAli]

To be honest, I was seriously against the whole fantasy pin idea since I could see illegal issues starting & all that. But once I saw the quality for A LOT of these fantasy pins, I was blown away! Most are starting to turn beautiful & it's like artwork we've always wanted to see turn into pins, turn into reality because so many people out there are willing to spend lots for these quality pins. Which I rather see happy people wanting pins they've really wanted instead of unhappy people complaining to Disney of how poor quality pins have been turning out & the designs poorly executed lately. So far I've only been collecting Aladdin fantasy pins & that's about it haha.

 

[starry_solo]

It also has to do that Fantasy pin prices are increasing. They started out at $15~ish shipped per pin, then raised to $20, $25, $30, and now $35 seems to be the new norm - and that's the PRE-SALE price, where the seller needs your money to start production on the pin.

I have observed that prices for most of the "it" pins in the past two years (marquees, beloved tales, ptds) have dropped. Right now, there's the extremely high end collector (Gomes) and then there's the rest of us, LOL.

 

[Romancing_Train]

As for this discussion I think it's funny people are thinking to blame anything they can on fantasy pins.

Honestly with tsum tsums, star wars and all kings of other merchandise out there, and the horrible quality Disney has been putting out lately that's the real drop.

Plus a ton of events just happened, comic cons, and other things, people are spending money on other things.

I think Disney really needs to put out a really cool pin of the month again, like the PoDMs to get people to come back

 

[bretu]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I only own Ariel, Belle and Cinderella as nurses. Old fantasy pins. I have been a collector my whole life, Depression glass, McCoy pottery, Occupied Japan figurines. All were copied or reproduced all tanked in value. It has gotten to the point that new Ariel pins are outrageously priced. I think ill wait and see where the market settles before I buy or trade for more.

 

[dawny]

well as in all markiets- it will always rise and fall with supply and demand but yeh I think FP has a small hand in it. For ex. I can only speak for me but I'm so done with legit pins unless it makes me gasp. Disney re-does the same thing over and over. Rapunzel for ex. Tons of great character and yet it the same Rapunzel brushing her hair over and over. I also notice the quality has dropped. TBH the FP BLOW reg pins away. If you sat and looked at say my LM pin board that has about 200 pins on it and I asked you to pick your top 10/ half would be FP cause they are that good. So here is one avid trader that's not buying or re-buying real pins. I will also say Disney is very gently pulling outa pins. Not all they way cause its such a money maker. But they make more money on rack pins b/c they pay for the mold and the more of one pin the lower the cost to make, so lower detailed LE's are less and less. Events are less and less. Scoop is now gone.

 

[markheardjr]

Fantasy pins are too low edition to be trustworthy with the prices. All it takes is 1 seller to list one for $150 and have their friend buy it and all of a sudden the other 40 LE100's they didn't presell are magically worth $150?? I don't think so, but stupid people are actually gullible enough to believe this sham.

The fantasy pins are also incorrectly being attributed values based upon the real pins series values. Fantasy PTD's have tanked as the real PTD's have tanked. Fantasy seasons and Fantasy WDI hats have increased as their series picked up. Well, seasons was always hot, so those ones jumped quickly

But the main issue is nothing is stopping someone from artificially inflating a fantasy pin value and then ordering another 100. Or someone else just recreating it off the original fantasy pin. Groot PTD had a copy made of it. Kind of funny. Or maybe the original designer asked for another order and the colors didn't match. Who knows.

What I know is I'm willing to pay a few bucks for something cool I like. I mean, $25-$35 for a 3"+ pin of a design I really like, why not? But $100-$150 or even higher? nah. Not worth it knowing there is no guarantee your investment is protected with the copyright of Disney behind it.

But to go back closer to the original topic...I see a lot of traders these days that deal in fantasy pins and then have a book full of Gomes, Beloved Tales, Marquees, etc.etc. Super high value stuff that they acquired by either selling fantasy pins or by flipping other releases. Do these people have any other pins besides these peacock trading books and 1 or 2 lanyards? I don't' know. I don't' care. But it is annoying when people come out of nowhere, have virtually no pins and all of a sudden they only want to deal in $200+ pins and have a page full of fantasy pins they only want to trade for those $200+ real pins. They aren't helping the hobby at all. They are just mooching off of it.

 

[tiggeriffic]

I'm fascinated by any interest in fantasy pins because I have absolutely zero interest in them myself. It's hard enough to track down official pins that I need/want. I'm not going to add fake pins to my collection. Some of them are reallllly ugly, too. That's not a judgement on those of you who like them, it's just something I really don't understand. Like Mark said above, I can't see spending huge amounts of money on fantasy pins when that money (or trader) could be used for real pins.

I also don't think the quality of new pins has gone down. There have always been some unattractive or QC issue pins around, but I see a lot of great recent pins - - everything from some fun rack pins (classic and new characters, Star Wars, etc.) and park LEs like the wickedly wonderful series to soda fountain and wdi pins. Not all of them are great, but there have been some really nicely made pins and some different and creative stuff.

 

[Kritter]

I can respect the amount of work and love that some fantasy makers put into their pins, but it's just not for me. I worry about legal issues, and getting in trouble with the law if disney goes after these people. Call it what you will but if your buying in a literal sense a "bootleg" product you can get in just as much trouble as the person selling them. The characters don't belong to these people and in a way it does infringe upon Disney's Copyrights, it's kind of why I don't buy artwork, clothes, toys, etc. of franchises and characters from artists at conventions or commission them myself that did not get permission from the company or has the companies copyright clearly stated.

Additionally I actually find it a bit appalling that some artists have the gall to ask for $99+ for them, i saw an LE 100 Fantasy pin being sold for a pretty steep price and watched as the numbers sold dwindled until it was gone, and the a couple weeks later I saw the same pin on a new listing being listed as an LE 100 with 100 more being sold with the price even higher. Why would you do that to people?

I'm having enough trouble getting my grails, why would I waste my hard earned cash on something i can't trade in the parks or with other traders? I haven't had any issues with Disney's Quality Control, but maybe i've just been lucky, so i can't really call that the reason for the fantasy pin fad.

Hey if you wanna buy them go ahead, i won't judge you, but it just isn't something i feel like is worth it in the long-run, and DO NOT try to trade them to me.

 

[Ninpin]

I'm fascinated by any interest in fantasy pins because I have absolutely zero interest in them myself. It's hard enough to track down official pins that I need/want. I'm not going to add fake pins to my collection. Some of them are reallllly ugly, too. That's not a judgement on those of you who like them, it's just something I really don't understand. Like Mark said above, I can't see spending huge amounts of money on fantasy pins when that money (or trader) could be used for real pins.

Same!

Apparently we're on the unpopular side of the fantasy pin debates, lol!

 

[Ninpin]

I can respect the amount of work and love that some fantasy makers put into their pins, but it's just not for me. I worry about legal issues, and getting in trouble with the law if disney goes after these people. Call it what you will but if your buying in a literal sense a "bootleg" product you can get in just as much trouble as the person selling them. The characters don't belong to these people and in a way it does infringe upon Disney's Copyrights, it's kind of why I don't buy artwork, clothes, toys, etc. of franchises and characters from artists at conventions or commission them myself that did not get permission from the company or has the companies copyright clearly stated.

Additionally I actually find it a bit appalling that some artists have the gall to ask for $99+ for them, i saw an LE 100 Fantasy pin being sold for a pretty steep price and watched as the numbers sold dwindled until it was gone, and the a couple weeks later I saw the same pin on a new listing being listed as an LE 100 with 100 more being sold with the price even higher. Why would you do that to people?

I'm having enough trouble getting my grails, why would I waste my hard earned cash on something i can't trade in the parks or with other traders? I haven't had any issues with Disney's Quality Control, but maybe i've just been lucky, so i can't really call that the reason for the fantasy pin fad.

Hey if you wanna buy them go ahead, i won't judge you, but it just isn't something i feel like is worth it in the long-run, and DO NOT try to trade them to me.

Sorry for the double post, but I had to agree with this as well!

Add to it that some people steal fan art to make these, and you've pretty much summed up everything that I find wrong with it!

 

[shooting4ownhand]

I can respect the amount of work and love that some fantasy makers put into their pins, but it's just not for me. I worry about legal issues, and getting in trouble with the law if disney goes after these people. Call it what you will but if your buying in a literal sense a "bootleg" product you can get in just as much trouble as the person selling them. The characters don't belong to these people and in a way it does infringe upon Disney's Copyrights, it's kind of why I don't buy artwork, clothes, toys, etc. of franchises and characters from artists at conventions or commission them myself that did not get permission from the company or has the companies copyright clearly stated.

Commissions work differently than bootlegs do. As long as the artwork, clothes, etc. are not a literally copy of something already produced, you are fine. I've heard of Disney going after artists for using their characters but its not a clear cut copyright violation if an artist made an Ariel painting inspired by the movie and sold it. If they literally just took a cell from the movie, repainted it and called it a day, Disney could sue them for copyright infringement. However, if you bought a commission at a con of Ariel or something, Disney isn't going to track you down and go after you for copyright infringement. If you are getting commissions for artists who work for Disney, Disney definitely wouldn't go after you. Pretty much all of their well known artists have and do commissions for people. I know a lot of their more popular artists they commissions for Wonderground and the parks do Disney commissions for fans. I know some of them have been discovered by that. As for artists who work for Marvel or DC, if you are into comics, will also do commissions. Neither of those companies would go after you. The fantasy pins also are in that weird legal grey area with copyright because they could be considered fan art. So Disney could go after the people designing the pins but it is honestly not worth the headache. If Disney decided to cash in on the fantasy pins and make some of the more popular ones themselves, the artist who designed the fantasy pins are SOL. They would have NO legal leg to stand on if Disney decided to do that. If anything, Disney would just make similar (or the exact same) pins as the fantasy pins and get their money that way. Would save them time and money. At the end of the day, people would pay $50 for a nice pin. Hell, they get collectors spending $750 on 2 Aladdin dolls. You could easily charge $100 for some of the nicer fantasy pins to be made jumbo with better art. Put the fantasy creators right out of business without lawyers.

 

[Shivron]

I rarely post on here, but will add my two cents. The prices of ALL pins are inflated artificially right now (not just fantasy pins). The best guide one can use for price/value is eBay. However, almost 90% of pins available are posted via the buy it now option rather than via auction. The seller simply sets a price they think is right and many times the pins get relisted time and time again. As a result, when an auction for a valuable pin does actually occur the prices fluctuate significantly in some cases. I'm also a huge collector of Japanese robots. The opposite occurs in that market with a majority of items sold via auction rather than buy it now. As a result, the value of items has been highly predictable for years and I dont worry about my collection significantly decreasing in cost. The other dilemma is the glut of pins. I collect Tinker Bell for my daughter. The sheer number of Pins that are LE 300 or less for Tinker Bell is overwhelming. Thus, while a pin in isolation may be scarce, when seen in the context of how many great LE pins are available there really isnt any scarcity at all. And when the pin you want seems to always be available via eBay then really it's just a matter of waiting out the high price because eventually one of the sellers will cave in. To be honest, this website offers a perfect example in the sales forum. For years now there have been numerous sales threads with people trying to offload large collections and theyre failing to because they set a value that members aren't willing to pay. But the weekly 'bumps' keep the threads persisting month after month until someone new finally joins and buys one or two of the pins despite the fact the price was never decreased.

I love collecting pins and will continue to do so. I think most of us realize though, whether its said publicly or not, that our collections are very likely to decrease in value over the next 5 years rather than increase. So unless you're a reseller with access to the hottest new pins as they come out, making money from collecting is a risky proposition for any newcomers.

 

[CoryTheRaven]

I don't have any fantasy pins in my collection but I understand the temptation.

One is a paucity of pins for a certain subject... An intrepid artist manufacturing their own can be appealing for collectors of a certain character or film that never gets attention from official releases.

Another is the inflated market for official pins. But pin resale is a silly, nonsense business anyways. Ebay is probably the worst place to get a sense of what something is actually worth, because Ebay measures by what the seller is trying to sell it for, NOT what the market is willing to buy it for. A pin that sits on Ebay for $200 is NOT worth $200 if nobody is buying it. I see it all the time though: the same sellers listing the same pins for exorbitant prices month after month after month. When a fantasy pin comes along of the same character in a non-copyright infringing pose, for an actually affordable price, the temptation is there.

Like I said though, I don't have any fantasy pins. Who knows what the future will bring, but I prefer having official pins. The only exceptions are from other groups that are in some fashion affiliated with Disney: I have a few Walt Disney Family Museum pins, and some from the Carolwood Pacific Historical Society.

 

[bretu]

Thanks for everyone's input. I only collect real Disney pins and have over 10,000 in my collection. To me fantasy is the same as fake. No way I would believe the edition size on any fantasy pin. I want to word this carefully. Some of the known scrapper and counterfeit pin dealers are now making fantasy pins. Please especially if your inexperienced be careful who you become involved with.

 

[starry_solo]

Thanks for everyone's input. I only collect real Disney pins and have over 10,000 in my collection. To me fantasy is the same as fake. No way I would believe the edition size on any fantasy pin. I want to word this carefully. Some of the known scrapper and counterfeit pin dealers are now making fantasy pins. Please especially if your inexperienced be careful who you become involved with.

^^Yup, especially some in Southern California!

 

[Vixy]

Commissions work differently than bootlegs do. As long as the artwork, clothes, etc. are not a literally copy of something already produced, you are fine. I've heard of Disney going after artists for using their characters but its not a clear cut copyright violation if an artist made an Ariel painting inspired by the movie and sold it. If they literally just took a cell from the movie, repainted it and called it a day, Disney could sue them for copyright infringement. However, if you bought a commission at a con of Ariel or something, Disney isn't going to track you down and go after you for copyright infringement. If you are getting commissions for artists who work for Disney, Disney definitely wouldn't go after you. Pretty much all of their well known artists have and do commissions for people. I know a lot of their more popular artists they commissions for Wonderground and the parks do Disney commissions for fans. I know some of them have been discovered by that.

Thanks for bringing up this distinction, because it's one a lot of people don't know about.

A couple people I know are Disney artists and they do commissions. These are one-time, one-of-a-kind art pieces. Someone turned one of my friends' commissions into a fantasy pin without his permission, and whenever I see it come up it makes me mad. If you're going to make fantasy pins, you should use your own fan art or get permission (and compensate the artist; this is their livelihood!) The maker has been contacted and apologized, but of course the pins that are already out there are, well, already out there. One can ask people to stop selling them, but... it's a losing battle, really.

 

[Vixy]

On fantasy pins in general... it's interesting. From what I've seen there's a wide range of types. There are the ones clearly made for a cheap laugh or thrill, like the Mickey-glove flipping the bird or the cheesecake shots of princesses. There are the ones that continue a beloved series, like seasons and profiles (with some affectionate humor, like the ones of Carl and Ralph as seasons pins.) There are the ones of well-loved scenes that Disney has never given any love to. There are mash-ups done for fun, for humor, and sometimes it's clear there are mash-ups done just because the maker knew they would sell. And there are some exquisitely beautiful fan art ones that are clearly an artist expressing their love for the source material.

It's pretty much exactly the gamut of types you find in fanfic. There are people who just like smut or prurient humor; there are people who want to "fix" a part of the original story/TV show that didn't go the way they wished it would so they want to imagine it differently (where their favorite didn't get hurt, or didn't die, or fell in love with a different person); there are people who want to see characters from multiple different things they love interact, for the humor of the "what if?", for exploring how those characters would behave; there are people who love the characters so much that they just can't bear to let go after the show is over, so they write more stories so those characters can have more adventures.

Once I realized the similarity, well... I can't begrudge people who make the pins we wish Disney was making but isn't. I roll my eyes at the ones who are pretty obviously just doing it for the cash or for the smut. But I've seen many fantasy pins that were clearly designed with a great deal of love. So I just roll my eyes at the stupid ones and the ones with bad art, and try to ignore those.

 

[PinPics_Ambassador]

Either way I wouldn't mind pin prices dropping. I've noticed a HUGE increase in even just the short time I've been collecting. Some pins I bought for ~$50 when I started just a few years ago are now listed at $200+ out of nowhere.

Through my work with the pin community one thing I've noticed is an entire segment comprised of individuals who enter it solely under the premise to make money. They don't necessarily even like Disney or collecting, they just think they can make money. I find it bizarre, but nonetheless I think it's responsible for some of the pricing you see now especially on the auction sites like ebay.

My personal 2-cents.

 

[Ninpin]

Just saw a Good Dinosaur fantasy pin...

...they don't even let a new movie have a chance to come out first!?

Dear lord!