How reliable is a blacklight at detecting scrappers?

[CinoBoo]

Hi all, first post. My wife and I have been pin trading for about a year and we have about 700 pins, all from park trading and park purchases.

We accidentally discovered that all purchased pins respond to UV light (blacklight). It might be as little as a character's tongue or as much as the whole pin, but some of the paint always glows brightly under UV light, often in a different hue than in regular light.

We found that about 25% of our CM traded pins, mostly hidden mickeys with known scrappers, did not respond to UV light. Often we'd have complete sets where 1 or 2 would not glow, and under normal light looked suspiciously different (sometimes).

I searched everywhere and found no mention of this effect. Anyone else notice it?

 

[JAllenWood]

I've never heard of this, but would be great if it works. Everyone is always looking for a reliable way to spot the counterfeit pins. Although I don't think it would work on the scrappers as they are legitimate pins with defects, and would have the same material as the real pins.

 

[broncobilly83]

I thought I saw a thread on this on DizPins right before the shutdown, but then someone else debunked it testing what they knew to be a real pin and it failed the blacklight test too

 

[nursek8]

I thought I saw a thread on this on DizPins right before the shutdown, but then someone else debunked it testing what they knew to be a real pin and it failed the blacklight test too

Yes there was a thread about this method being proved unreliable to detect real vs fake pins.

 

[Cicada]

Interesting...

 

[anastasia]

Surely it's just that certain colours respnd to the UV light though? I.e. red always glows and green seems to too? It would be very interesting if this did prove to be the case though!

 

[Duckmite]

I thought I saw a thread on this on DizPins right before the shutdown, but then someone else debunked it testing what they knew to be a real pin and it failed the blacklight test too

But then one wonders how reliable is the person debunking the reliability of the blacklight test... Paranoia setting in... :ugh:

If a proven genuine pin reacts to blacklight and a fake doesn't (or vice versa), doesn't that mean the test works for that pin? Of course it would be a huge task to go through all pins and fakes. Also it would be required to check all the runs of the official pins in case there are differences in the materials used for OE pins released in different years etc.

So, I suppose this is an interesting theory, but not applicable in practice.

 

[CinoBoo]

I thought about the debunking issue too. It seems to me that neither Disney nor the counterfeiters has a vested interest in authenticating the UV approach, assuming it works. Disney may want to keep it secret so that they have an internal test that will continue to work, and so that scrappers don't start using phosphorescent paints and ruin the test. And counterfeiters would not want it to become widely known, because they would have to start using more expensive paints.

It is very easy to debunk the idea that the test is 100% accurate, because not all authentic pins glow. Pins with no colored paint cannot, such as the Robin Hood silver coin set or the black and white oval character silhouettes. And they may not have started using phosphorescent paints until a few years into the program.

However, I am convinced that the phosphorescence in virtually all new pins is not an accident. If the whole pin glowed then it might just be the brand of paint, but it is almost always just part of the pin -- and it is clear that it was intentional.

You guys can keep ignoring this issue, and I'm sure Disney and the counterfeiters won't complain, each for different reasons. But my wife and I are going to use our backlights and spread the word at the parks. After all, it might be a legitimate "acid test" -- a 90% or 95% accurate test that allows false positives (I.e. Sometimes says a real one might be a scrapper), but never says that a scrapper is real. If so, that is an extremely useful field test for making a quick decision about whether to trade.

And even if it is NOT a valid test, I prefer glowing pins over non-glowing ones, all else being equal. Who wouldn't? They look really cool and sometimes very different when viewed under blacklight. You can admire your whole collection at once using a ten dollar handheld light. Or if you have pins on your lanyard, they glow in interesting ways when you're in line on rides that use lots of UV lighting, like Astro Blasters or Space Mountain.

We have little 2-inch pen sized lights we can shine on a pin in 1 second to spot possible fakes or undesirables. So in practice it pretty much has no impact on convenience.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I likes my glowing pins!

 

[rubyslipperedgoddess]

I was recently told by a CM that all authentic, which does not include scrappers since they are made by Disney, but all Disney HM pins, made in 2008 and on, do not contain metal so they will not respond to a magnet. So run a magnet over your newer HMs and see which ones respond and which ones do not.

 

[Tiki]

I just put myself under the black light and wella... I am a scrapper too

 

[JAllenWood]

I was recently told by a CM that all authentic, which does not include scrappers since they are made by Disney, but all Disney HM pins, made in 2008 and on, do not contain metal so they will not respond to a magnet. So run a magnet over your newer HMs and see which ones respond and which ones do not.

Or to be precise, they do not contain a metal that responds to magnetism. They are made of metal, just a metal that does not respond (or respond very well) to a magnet.

I happen to have some HM pins with me and tried the magnet on them, and they indeed did not respond. Need to check this with some known counterfeits when I get home to see if this test holds up.

And just for clarification for those that are still confused by what a scrapper is: a scrapper is NOT a counterfeit pin. It's an official pin made by Disney that did not meet quality standards, and thus, was supposed to be 'scrapped'. As we know, the scrapping rarely happens and these pins end up going out the back door and sold anyways. Dan has written alot about this subject. Read this post if you have not done so already: http://disneypinforum.com/showthread.php?205-Scrappers-Vs.-Counterfiets-(and-how-to-tell)

 

[hopemax]

I would really like to believe the magnet thing, but I don't know. I went through my tin of suspected scrappers, and most them did respond. The ones I was most unsure of, turned out to not respond, so I would like to believe they are real. But one of the ones that DID NOT respond was the Sneezy Jack in the Box HM pins. One of the ones that showed up at WDW, before the series was even announced.

So maybe if it is magnetic it definitely isn't real, if it isn't that doesn't mean it's authentic?

Second test, I have some HM's that were purchased in the sealed pouches from Disney. Some of these were from the 2007 series, but they didn't come out in pouches until 2008, and are back stamped 2008...the characters in cars and Figment emotions. These registered as magnetic. The 2008 Fun Icons did not. So it appears "all pins made in 2008" is not entirely accurate either.

3rd Test: I am going through the HM pins my friend sent me from her recent trip to DL. One of them is the Mickey Cola Bottle. On Pinpics, it has a counterfeit warning about pins that have silver where black should be. This pin has silver, but it is not magnetic. Perhaps, the warning is inaccurate, because the rest of the pin looks very good.

4th Test: I went through my DL HM book, and tested all the pins. Pre and post 2008. Interestingly, while most of the pre-2008 is magnetic, some of the very first series were not. The Tinks, Prince on Horses, and some of the babies. But I collected these during the time they were originally released, and we didn't start hearing about the fakes until the Global lanyard series, so I don't doubt the authenticity of any of them. I just find it odd that some reacted and some didn't. Maybe a sign of which factory produced what? Post 2008, I only found 3 pins that reacted, so if there is validity to this, I feel pretty good, that I did well pulling out the fakes. But, I also tested the Belle signature star from 2.5. This is a fake, it's the one with the white where light yellow should be, and the back is more silvery. It didn't react.

So my findings are inconclusive.

 

[HMSally]

I just put myself under the black light and wella... I am a scrapper too

NO!!! You're a keeper honey!

 

[rubyslipperedgoddess]

Since I don't work for Disney I can't say for 100% certainty, but anything made before 2008 wouldn't count. She said that prior to 2008 Disney pins contained at least some sort of metal, however the amount may be so small that a magnet does not respond. If a pin was made before, but released after, well you should be going by the made by date, not the release date. Also just because a pin is a counterfeit doesn't mean it doesn't look good. I have pins that look great that are counterfeit and for my own collection I really don't care what they are as long as my set matches and looks good. As we've all seen in recent years Disney isn't always concerned about quality, so don't judge a book by it's cover.

 

[hopemax]

That was my point, with the ones that I purchased from Disney, and opened the little baggies myself. 2008 backstamp, available through means that only came out mid-2008 (hidden mickey pouches), so I assume they weren't produced until 2008 and they tested as magnetic. Which does not match up with what you were told.

 

[pintrader2011]

Not sure you understand

Not sure if you guys realize it or not but if what you call a "scrapper" is a factory over-run, its made of the same material as the same pins that you consider legit. Its not like they do something special after the fact to signify whether it is authorized or not. Picture this. Lots of huge licensed factories all churning out legit disney pins..all having overruns in which they want to make extra money on..molds that haven't been destroyed and being used with the proper metals and paints. Do you really think the blacklight theory holds any water? The pin manufacturing world isn't as simple as you think. Sorry if it comes off rude but theres a bit too much naivete here. Speak to whatever expert you want but unless they know manufacturing in china, they havent a clue.