Pin trading frustration. Time to vent.

Ok, time for me to vent, because if I don't I'm going to snap on a pin trader one of these days and I'll be carted out of Disneyland. My frustration stems from what I've seen pin trading become within this past year. I guess I see it more now that I frequent Disneyland every other week. At one point there were TONS of places to get pins. You had Disney auctions, Disneystore.com, the theme parks, WDI and Disney Soda Fountain. LE pins were distributed pretty evenly and yes they took some effort to get (who else remembers staying up till midnight on a Sunday to buy pins!?) but it didn't require much other than a little patience to secure the pins you wanted. Then pin places started to die out. Disney auctions died. At that point it seemed like the most valuable pins started coming from Disneystore.com. But you could usually trade for them with another LE pin. Everyone clamored for the Disneystore.com pins. Then they stopped making good pins (I'm sorry, but their last series of pins to be released were over priced and tiny.) and eventually now the only pins they release are far and in between. (by the way, anyone else still waiting for those Tinks dressed as characters that were teased on ds.com but never came out!?) People started to clamor for the new "super good" pins. Apparently it is now DSF pins and some resort pins (aka film cell pins). Now I'm all for people waiting in line for pins, I've done it too. But DSF pin releases are to the point that it can be nearly impossible to get the pins you want. Also, (time for stream of consciousness time), what the heck is up with the ridiculous over-value-ing of the marquee pins!? Seriously, $400 for a pin!? That's 4 months of car insurance!! I'm sorry, but they are NOT worth the inflated price people put them at. And I've noticed that these guys, along with the Beloved Tales pins have only gone up in price THIS year! I've been watching the prices on eBay, and wow, they've gone up. There's a lot of new pin traders emerging and not to be mean, but I've seen a lot of them pushing up the value of their pins. Also, learn when and where a pin was released before you tell me "oh no! this beloved tale was one of the first ones to come out, and it's super rare!" Really? I'm pretty sure ALL of them are an LE 300, I've seen it in multiple books AND it came out this year. I've had a harder time getting some open edition pins than I have with Beloved Tales. There's an annoying overvaluing of those pins, the marquees, and almost anything that goes for sale at DSF. People stood in line (I did to) to get the Cinderella pins that came out earlier this year, and I saw them all over peoples trading books. "Oh, this pin sold out right away! I can't trade it for that pin." I always try to to fair trades. I look at the original value of the pin, the trades/wants ratios, when it was released, it's LE, and the going price for it on eBay. I can tell when someone is being stupid with their pins. Now I understand that there are lots of people out there who go to these releases and but pins to re-sell, and yes, they are a big part of the problem too. I wish there was a way to stop them. I really do. (I would like to take this moment to apologize for how zig baggy this rant is. I am hungry right now and tired and releasing some pent up frustrations all at the same time.) OH! Another thing! Just because a pin was released in 2005 during DL's 50th anniversary does NOT make it a limited edition OR limited release. They made TONS of the "OPEN RELEASE" pins, but just put them out there and people liked them, so they sold out at some point. And yes, PTD pins are technically "free pins" but an LE 300 pin is still an LE300 pin. And hoarding a million of one pin is ridiculous! AAAAGH!

I'm sorry. This past year I've seen people inflating the value of pins and it pisses me off. It can ruin pin trading when someone starts rambling false information to you. I'm sure there are lots of flaws in my rant. It's hard to put into words my frustrations because I know there are so many factors that go into pin trading. It's a complicated pin world we live in and it can be hard to comprehend at times. For those who spent the time to read this, I commend and thank you. I don't mean to offend anyone, and maybe these pins really are worth what they are going for. But right now I just think that pin trading and collecting has been funneled and limited as to where and what we can get from Disney. All the variety is gone and we're stuck with what we have.


Thank you. That is all. I feel much calmer now. I promise not to hit you if we trade pins in the future.

And let me point out. I have nothing against new people to the hobby. We were all new at some point, and I am glad to see DPF members helping each other out. It's this community that keeps me going. You all rock.


- Alex

I seriously feel more relaxed now. Again, sorry if I offended anyone.



Man, I'm hungry. I hope my girlfriend gets home soon so we can e-..she's home! Food time!

YoSoyAhPuch said:

(by the way, anyone else still waiting for those Tinks dressed as characters that were teased on ds.com but never came out!?)

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Yes! There was supposed to be Tink as Mary Poppins, Tink as Aurora, Tink as Lilo, and another one that is escaping me at the moment...and then POOF all the "normal" releases were gone and they started the lackluster 110th legacy pins...which were smaller and not as nice quality-wise as previous pins. One of my absolute favorite series was the Jumbo Tink as characters and Jessica as characters, and it's a shame they didn't continue them.

YoSoyAhPuch said:

$400 for a pin!? That's 4 months of car insurance!! I'm sorry, but they are NOT worth the inflated price people put them at. And I've noticed that these guys, along with the Beloved Tales pins have only gone up in price THIS year! I've been watching the prices on eBay, and wow, they've gone up.

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I can't believe some of the prices lately either. I remember not too long ago the really good "grail" pins would go for around $250-300 tops...and those were for really nice, heavy, beautifully detailed Disney Auction pins. Now people will pay way MORE than that for a marquee, a DSF Rapunzel, or a Beloved Tales...I distinctly remember the Beauty and the Beast Beloved Tales sittting on eBay for MONTHS at $22 Buy it Now....and now that pin is near impossible to find. And over $1000 for Reveal Conceal Rapunzel!!!! That just blows my mind that someone will spend that on ONE pin.

No offense to anyone...everyone is entitled to do what they want with their money...but I can still think its crazy.

Well, this IS a collector's hobby. Limited editions are just that, LIMITED. I've been studying economics, and supply and demand drive up prices, so naturally the longer something is out there, the more people keep it out of circulation, and the higher the price goes. It makes sense.

That aside, the fact that it got higher this year just means that more people want it this year than last year. More people will want it next year. Granted prices are high, but they are collectable items.

I agree that the overall quality has gone down, and am disapointed by this. I only recently got into pin trading, but even I can see the difference between the older pins and most newer pins. Also, so bummed that I missed out on so many great DA pins.

Anyways, sorry if I overstepped my bounds or came across as harsh.

AGREED!

I am currently after the WDI Fastpass pins and each time I go on eBay and see a FP pin on "Buy it Now" for $250, I laugh. I don't even get upset, I simply laugh. It's hilarious that they think it's worth that much.

But, if these sellers want to be outragous, then I can play their silly little game. I have no problem sending my best offer of $1.00 for a WDI Splash Mountain listed for $250, which I have done before.

My best advice to EVERYONE on the forum is to be patient.

Hey Alex, I feel your pain. And I hope your dinner was great. LOL.

2 things

First, I agree with you.

Second, this has been going on a lot longer than a year. The early years of pin trading were just like it. Okay, mostly. There were no $1000 pins and very, very few $500 pins (Maleficent Dragon).

And just like last time, it will not turn the majority of people into long term collectors and traders with the "thrill of the hunt" of such valuable pieces. It makes people cranky, and frustrated until they just give up. But people don't pay want to talk about what so much dissatisfaction means. The threads like these turn into rabid justifications and branding the dissatisfied as entitled. But nary a mention of how those hoarding pins and making outrageous claims put on their own display of entitlements, some of which you hit upon in your post. Watch how people stammer around when told their item isn't worth as much as they think it should be, isn't that a form of entitlement too? So last time, the end result was that the pin trading world which could support LE3000 which were average, LE1000s which were special and LE500s which were really special turned into LE1000s which are just average, and LE500s which are better, but still don't really talk to me until we're talking about LE300s or less. And cutbacks both in the number of pins released, and locations. Wonderful growth in the hobby it led to, didn't it? Or do we think that the lessons of the past are that this hobby functions best when people are stressed out, ruthless and the pins cost a fortune?

The good news is that people can't hold onto their crammed pin books forever. They either get tired of looking at stuff and realize their crazy idea of value is wrong, or they just need to liquidate everything and "cut their losses." So the other half of my continual rant is that patience is rewarded. Laws of economics are often thrown around, so remember another one, "buy low." All the money and insanity being directed to BTs, PODMs and marquees means that something is being undervalued right now. Find them. Don't chase stocks, I mean pins trading at their all time high, just because you think it will only go higher. Didn't work out so well for real estate, pins are not immune. Bubbles burst. Be prepared for when they do. Except some Gomes pins, that's real estate in Manhattan.

I don't think you said anything that would come across as offensive to anyone.

It's good to vent sometimes. I'm glad you feel comfortable enough on this forum to share your frustrations with us, because a lot of us share the same feelings.

Bon Appetit!

Illustrations that prices for the most highly sought after grail of grails do not always just go up, up, up.

Recent Ebay sales: $76 and $125. It was going for $200 in the early years. With inflation, that's more of today's $250. So going for half price. There are still those BIN for $300 or $400.

Recent sales, still a healthy $200-$250. But it was going for over $300 in the mid-2000s. Accounting for inflation it's probably $100 less than it's peak and didn't continue to appreciate.

$61, $64, Another $200 pin in the old days.

$230 in the box. the original high priced pin, $500 for sure, and I saw it as high as $700

$35 on the card! My heart hurts that I did not know about it. How about other old timers? I don't even remember how much it's high was. But at least $150. And unlike other pins I listed, it wasn't counterfeited. And look at the trade/wants ratio 3/287!

I resent that you are saying PTD are free pins. :facepalm:

The ice cream is free, you are paying for the pin.

do you feel better after the vent and food? I totally understand where your coming from...

I WANT so bad it hurts, the Fantasia Centaurettes.
In March of this year, the average ebay price was 49.99.
Now, people are willing to pay 99!!!! OMG.

But, i am not a price police officer, just a trader deperate to get some of my horsey and dragon grails.

I agree! It's not that there are pins going for a lot of money...that will happen, especially with new releases- we understand that. It's that people are giving pins a FALSE since of inflation (BIN prices that will likely never sell). It creates a gridlock/pin hostage situation that's frustrating.

And it's also true that once a pin sells for something extreme, some traders never want to adjust their future valuation of that pin. If a pin starts selling for $100, but used to sell for $300 during those wild peak times (2005-2008ish), you can't expect people to consider it a fair price any longer. I mean, you can ask anything you want for it, but it's probably not going to trade, and if it doesn't sell for that anymore, you probably won't get that price for it anymore if you sell it. It sucks, if you put a lot of money into it, but that's the way it is.

And not having all the different places not to get the pins is disheartening, too- not only does it suck for people no where near a park, but it just reduces our variety overall. Nice, big pins are so hard to come by, nowdays.

I mostly feel bad for the new pin traders- it's hard to get any nice pins to trade away when DA and ds.com are gone...

The funny thing is many trade "up" as many times as they can, always looking to make a "better" trade for themselves. Not for what they collect, no, but so that they have better pins to trade.

I'm realizing I traded way NOT in favor to myself, and have repeatedly done so. I've had people say they want the pin I have for "my collection" (it's apparently become known that I generally traded easier when it was for a collection rather than for them to have as a trader, and that is likely stopping unfortunately) and I do lopsided trades to see it in their book the next time I see them and they are trading it really hard as compared to how I traded it to THEM.

I do find it ridiculous to find so many trading so hard for pins they don't WANT, just that they are "tough to get" or VHTF. I'm getting close to taking a small break due to this. People I go out of my way for getting pins they know I would like when I am holding pins for them, and trading the pin I might like. Then they get upset with me when they try to trade me stuff I don't much want for that pin that I specifically got for them saying they could go get it at any time (cast pins and WDI pins included here). Well then, go get it yourself. I tried to be nice.

I'm a nice guy. I like getting people what they collect. I look out for pins specifically for others. I HATE that that is now biting me in the butt and seeing how many people are becoming much harder traders and kinda screwing over people so they can have better traders, not things for their collections...

/rant (tired)

Dalisair said:

The funny thing is many trade "up" as many times as they can, always looking to make a "better" trade for themselves. Not for what they collect, no, but so that they have better pins to trade.

I'm realizing I traded way NOT in favor to myself, and have repeatedly done so. I've had people say they want the pin I have for "my collection" (it's apparently become known that I generally traded easier when it was for a collection rather than for them to have as a trader, and that is likely stopping unfortunately) and I do lopsided trades to see it in their book the next time I see them and they are trading it really hard as compared to how I traded it to THEM.

I do find it ridiculous to find so many trading so hard for pins they don't WANT, just that they are "tough to get" or VHTF. I'm getting close to taking a small break due to this. People I go out of my way for getting pins they know I would like when I am holding pins for them, and trading the pin I might like. Then they get upset with me when they try to trade me stuff I don't much want for that pin that I specifically got for them saying they could go get it at any time (cast pins and WDI pins included here). Well then, go get it yourself. I tried to be nice.

I'm a nice guy. I like getting people what they collect. I look out for pins specifically for others. I HATE that that is now biting me in the butt and seeing how many people are becoming much harder traders and kinda screwing over people so they can have better traders, not things for their collections...

/rant (tired)

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This is really nice of you, and I'm so sorry people take advantage of that. If I get something from a friend or I know I was traded it because they wanted me to have it I try to always keep it. I'll end up getting a few extras of the same pin sometimes and I'll actually go out of my way to keep the one that was given to me.

I agree with you. Out of curiosity, why did disney auctions close down? it seemed to be doing good business.

pattimarie said:

I agree with you. Out of curiosity, why did disney auctions close down? it seemed to be doing good business.

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This is the best question of forever.

It seems to me that pins follow a product life style that is closer to a fad than other products that appreciate over time. Not that pin trading itself is a fad, but that certain pins can be. The new ones appreciate really quickly because they're the ones on everyone's mind right now, so they're willing to pay exhorbitant amounts to get it. As hopemax showed, in a few years that pin or that series will have fallen out of the limelight and prices will go down. I wouldn't even imagine trying to collect PODM pins right now. I'd wait at least 5 years, if not more.

Dalisair said:

The funny thing is many trade "up" as many times as they can, always looking to make a "better" trade for themselves. Not for what they collect, no, but so that they have better pins to trade.

I'm realizing I traded way NOT in favor to myself, and have repeatedly done so. I've had people say they want the pin I have for "my collection" (it's apparently become known that I generally traded easier when it was for a collection rather than for them to have as a trader, and that is likely stopping unfortunately) and I do lopsided trades to see it in their book the next time I see them and they are trading it really hard as compared to how I traded it to THEM.

I do find it ridiculous to find so many trading so hard for pins they don't WANT, just that they are "tough to get" or VHTF. I'm getting close to taking a small break due to this. People I go out of my way for getting pins they know I would like when I am holding pins for them, and trading the pin I might like. Then they get upset with me when they try to trade me stuff I don't much want for that pin that I specifically got for them saying they could go get it at any time (cast pins and WDI pins included here). Well then, go get it yourself. I tried to be nice.

I'm a nice guy. I like getting people what they collect. I look out for pins specifically for others. I HATE that that is now biting me in the butt and seeing how many people are becoming much harder traders and kinda screwing over people so they can have better traders, not things for their collections...

/rant (tired)

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I had a totally nice well written reply to your post and my stooopid computer decided it was time to shut down and restart with automatic updates... ARG.

Simply put:
Yes you are a really nice guy. There are several folks her on DPF who look for pins for other people regularly. I do it too.

When I see a pin in someones book that is for my collection I do 1 of 2 things. A~ get all excited and tell them its for my collection. or B~ hush up and pray they dont trade hard for it. When someone tells you its for their collection, chances are they are not saying that to get you to go easy on them, it's because they are excited about the pin. In general, when a trader finds out I want something for my keepers, they trade HARDER for it, not easier. Because they know how bad I want it. It sucks! So the fact that you trade easier when its something someone truely wants is very kind, and says something about your great personality.


As to the "trading up" or going after HTF pins that dont fit a collection. Of course people do this! If I want a pin, but the person who owns it doesnt like whats in my book, I am going to trade some stuff out for other nice "retraders" in an attempt to find something that person wants. Some of the pins on my want list are going to be insane hard to get. I need HTF and VHTF pins in my traders to get them. I will offer multiples of my traders to get those HTF pins for my book too. I am sure i am not the only one.

I agree, I started to get into the beloved tales pins and after getting around 14 of them I got into the problem of getting the harder to find ones and thought to myself I got ALL PTN pins from Paris within 1 year and they did not cost me that much except the big 3 (tink, jiminy and stitch) but I worked out to get the other Beloved Tales pins I would need to fork out almost as much as I paid for most of my PTNs and I thought they are not worth that when only some are very nice and when some are pretty lame.

I was able to help out quite a few people who needed the BT pins for their collections and was very happy to sell them for what I paid so I was helping others out. It made me so happy when I helped Selen (Merryweather) get one of the last 3 she was needing.

I am lucky I have a few friends on the site who help me get certain pins for cost and I in return help them when and where I can.

I remember when DSF pins were alot easier to get ahold of and didnt warrent all the hassle and ebay prices were lower and they didnt sell out each time but its when Disneystore.com stopped selling pins when DSF pins started to get harder to get ahold of.

Psycho Pixie said:

As to the "trading up" or going after HTF pins that dont fit a collection. Of course people do this! If I want a pin, but the person who owns it doesnt like whats in my book, I am going to trade some stuff out for other nice "retraders" in an attempt to find something that person wants. Some of the pins on my want list are going to be insane hard to get. I need HTF and VHTF pins in my traders to get them. I will offer multiples of my traders to get those HTF pins for my book too. I am sure i am not the only one.

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I more mean the ones who have 3-4 books of trader pins and need... 4-5 pins for their personal collections. But then, when you need something for your personal collection and you show them a positive trading LE 250 WDI, it's not good enough for a upside down LE 1500 from 4 years ago. It's ok, just a little frustrating. I kinda feel like I've hit a brick wall lately and that some people have gotten much harder to trade with. Either that, or I got REALLY taken for a few months and don't have as much worth "cheating" from me anymore... lol

Dalisair said:

I more mean the ones who have 3-4 books of trader pins and need... 4-5 pins for their personal collections. But then, when you need something for your personal collection and you show them a positive trading LE 250 WDI, it's not good enough for a upside down LE 1500 from 4 years ago. It's ok, just a little frustrating. I kinda feel like I've hit a brick wall lately and that some people have gotten much harder to trade with. Either that, or I got REALLY taken for a few months and don't have as much worth "cheating" from me anymore... lol

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Oh no, i totally get that! I know of a few traders at the park and at PTN's that are like that. Cant blame em for being picky but at the same time its like, "really? You could get a BETTER pin with what i am offering you...."

hopemax said:

Laws of economics are often thrown around, so remember another one, "buy low." All the money and insanity being directed to BTs, PODMs and marquees means that something is being undervalued right now. Find them. Don't chase stocks, I mean pins trading at their all time high, just because you think it will only go higher. Didn't work out so well for real estate, pins are not immune. Bubbles burst. Be prepared for when they do. Except some Gomes pins, that's real estate in Manhattan.

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Such a good point. Finding the "low" to buy takes a lot of patience. If we could all just keep our heads and repeat to ourselves, "It's only a pin..... It's only a pin....."! :anxious:

Go ahead and vent. It really does make you feel better I think we've all had the kind of frustration you were talking about. And I think we can all relate. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone has an answer, or a way to make it better. It's just something that all collectors, no matter what they collect, have to deal with. At times the frustration can add up and make you want to hit the office walls (love that clip you posted!!). At other times, you'll get lucky and find what you were looking for at a good price. I guess maybe that's a way to get through the crappy times, is to think about the good times and all those deals or great trades you've found in the past. Either that, or hop on the bay for a little less expensive but still highly therapeutic retail therapy

HiddenMickeys said:

Go ahead and vent. It really does make you feel better I think we've all had the kind of frustration you were talking about. And I think we can all relate. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone has an answer, or a way to make it better. It's just something that all collectors, no matter what they collect, have to deal with. At times the frustration can add up and make you want to hit the office walls (love that clip you posted!!). At other times, you'll get lucky and find what you were looking for at a good price. I guess maybe that's a way to get through the crappy times, is to think about the good times and all those deals or great trades you've found in the past. Either that, or hop on the bay for a little less expensive but still highly therapeutic retail therapy

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+ a million! I think sometimes I get in such a low regarding collecting that I feel like it will never get better and then... huzzah! I find a pin I needed! Or, yay! Someone actually wants to trade with me rather than me having to purchase a pin I wanted, and I get to help their collection too!

I'm waiting for one of those good moments currently, but in the meantime I can read these threads and appreciate that I am not alone in my frustrations and vents. =)

I commend you for taking the time to voice your thoughts. Bravo!
I hope 2013 is a better year for pin-trading!!

Story said:

+ a million! I think sometimes I get in such a low regarding collecting that I feel like it will never get better and then... huzzah! I find a pin I needed! Or, yay! Someone actually wants to trade with me rather than me having to purchase a pin I wanted, and I get to help their collection too!

I'm waiting for one of those good moments currently, but in the meantime I can read these threads and appreciate that I am not alone in my frustrations and vents. =)

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We need to get you more traders!

Oh wow, oh wow, oh wow does this thread resonate with me. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for the rest of the people posting such great insight. I'm afraid I'm about to hop on a soap-box here too, so please humor me.

1. I fully respect that this a hobby that means something different to everyone. As far as pin trading, collecting, buying, etc. goes, to each their own!

2. I am insanely frustrated by the costs associated with, specifically, Tangled pins.

So I spend some of my time in Orlando with my family, but most of my time up here in New Hampshire, where I "actually" live. As I've stated ad nauseum, Tangled is an incredibly important film in my life. We all have our characters, movies, songs, etc. that we associate with or that we simply love. The story of Tangled and the characters in it will always be that important for me. I collect anything I can get my hands on - dolls, art, music, books, you name it. I purposely avoided the pins for a very long time because I was so frustrated and so angry that the markup on many of them was so high...

Now that I'm in, I'm in. I have an amazing collection that I am so proud of. So many of you have shown me kindness and offered to sell me parts of your collection, for which I will always be thankful. (upanddugfan1, you are a SAINT!) It is a little frustrating that I will likely never complete my collection simply because, for whatever reason, the costs are so very high for some of these Tangled pins. I know I should be patient, and I am! I am determined to complete my collection, but seriously, why is the marquee pin $650 on eBay? I'm okay with paying a little more than usual based on demand/supply, but at what point is it just too much??

Edit: My frustration lies in the fact that so many of these pins are being "held on to" for their monetary value or snapped up by resellers who aren't necessarily even a part of this hobby/culture, not necessarily because they're part of someone's collection, or even pins that owners specifically care about. I would pass out and DIE to have my hands on the R/C Rapunzel. But I also know that I have rent to pay.

Anyway. I'm not angry or bitter about this hobby. In fact, I've been thrilled by the members here and their kindness, generosity and willingness to look out for one another. I am grateful that I've been so WELCOMED into this community. I just wish the pins from my favorite film weren't so ridiculously scarce.

I have also learned that next time I'm at the parks, I need to stock up on some trader pins. My God, at this point, I would sell a kidney to complete my Tangled collection... I'm determined to have it at least mostly completed by my wedding, 10/10/13. Who's willing to help?! Haha!

Seriously though, this forum is amazing, I love its members, and I love being able to celebrate my favorite culture of them all with so many people. <3 Thanks for this thread.

/soap-box rant

Edit: Apparently I wasn't done ranting.