PinPics Under New Managment!!!

Well said Britt. I have met both Anthony and Samantha in person. I think they started collecting maybe about a year ago seriously, but they truly enjoy this hobby and they are rather dedicated to fight with scrapper issues. I think they deserve a chance and a little encouragement from their friends.

I for one am down to do all i can in the war on fake and scrapper pins. I got a few mins to chat with the old owner and was very happy to hear that one of the big things to the new ppl is help get rid of or atleast cut back the amout of bad pins around this hobby.

+10000 for the war on scrappers/fakes

I'd love to see in the "trading" & "wanted" numbers another listing of "owned" I think this would also help us weed out pins that have been scrapped...There will alwaysbe a few lazy souls that don't updatethis well, but in the case of an le 25, it wouldbecome very obvious if there was a fake source out there by having all 3 numbers readily available...I'm looking forward to seeing what they have in store for us!

WOW!! Little bit scary. Definitely transitional time in pin trading and collecting.
Don't understand why anyone would think it is strange for the pin community to be worried or upset about someone new to the hobby taking over what for want of a better analogy amounts to our bible.
I do respect Figg's right to sell anything she owns for the most she can get for it. It's the American way, and a large part of what makes pin collecting so popular. Thanks for what they created and I"ll be standing in the corner holding my breath waiting to see what happens next.

yenne said:

Diana, several things about your post are outright incorrect. I'm going to proceed from the assumption that you're operating on rumor or conjecture instead of just making things up to incite panic.

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I know some business law, and if Figgy & Britt wanted to keep a legal interest in Pinpics, a partnership would be the proper method. The only way to reserve an interest, is a right of first refusal clause -where if Pinpics is going to be sold a second time, the first owners have a first shot to purchase. Otherwise, when one transfers ownership -even if they have an unwritten right of contribution -that is as good as the paper it is written on. There is no enforceability of "input" when one has sold the entity, even if you are an employee. Again, this is different with a partnership or corporation where the entity has a board that votes/decides on changes together.

If you read my post, it certainly was not a commentary on the people. I don't know them and don't even think I have met them (granted that does raise an alarm as well). But I am a little concerned that the Lansam Company/entity has only been registered in California since October 2011 (see Secretary of State website). and that the sale happened Before Lansam could prove it was going to make changes.

Plenty of "nice" people have done bad things in trading.

Look, I am hoping for better, not worse to happen. I have a business interest as well in Pinpics for it to succeed. If everything is on the up & up, then no one would be offended or alarmed by concerns expressed here (and believe me I have gotten many contacts on the issue)...so I am only writing what people are talking about but afraid to post.

Diana

Just as a quick PS: Many people here are not from the "old" days when the Disney Pin Trading database wars began. As old timers are aware, Dizpins was a stolen entity in the first place as well, and "became" the last man standing. It too started as a partnership then "sale" that was hijacked.

I don't know what people have been saying offline or privately, but I know I have been hesitant to celebrate this news. I know I was a fairly early registered user of Pinpics, and remember when Dizpins was only a subset of Dusty's Disney beanie site run by Crystal. So even being just a bystander, as long as I've been trading no one knows me from trading events, I've seen a lot of the drama and problems. Over the years, I have seen how much this hobby chews people up and spits them up. It's obvious by the lack of updates, that the interest that lead Britt to start the website waned quite a long time ago, and we are all extremely lucky that that waning interest didn't lead to the shut down of the site years ago. Certainly, there are many improvements someone with a coding background could do to radically improve the site. And it would be great to have someone involved who would be able to do that. I would just love better searching techniques (boolean, quotations).

But my biggest concern is that Anthony & Samantha haven't been collecting long enough to weather the major obstacles that cause people to stop. The biggest things: being financially able to continue, real life issues - kids, jobs, etc, and pin collecting DRAMA - I don't remember the details of what happened when Kathryn was involved but I do remember there was a difference of opinion about who made the decisions for Pinpics. Plus, just around here people end up getting into it with each other and people end up leaving because they don't want to deal with certain other people. I would just really hate to wake up one day and find out that the domain name/hosting names weren't renewed, admin passwords were reset and Britt, Figgy, Dom and Bev can't get on the site, and can't get the site back up because they aren't the owners and don't have the authority. Not going to happen? Well, we were all pretty blindsided with the Dizpins situation, and I have heard of worse with non-Disney sites.

Everyone, always comes into the hobby with so much excitement, but very few seem to be able to hit the 5 year mark, let alone the 10 year mark and maintaining Pinpics is long, long term. Maybe Margaret has the right idea about saving info in an excel file, just in case. I had already been considering it because I know the site is expensive, and like I said I already questioned how much interest Britt & Figgy had in continuing (nothing wrong with that, I know interests change). I hope my fears will be unfounded, and Pinpics will see real and substantial improvements, and will still have a home on the internet long after Disney ends pin trading as we know it. I got my first Disney pin in 1989, and I know I'll be picking up pins as long as my numerous collections have holes to fill. And I hope to still have a place to research and inventory them.

Due to personal issues, I have avoided posting here for awhile. However, this current development between PinPics and Lansam concerns me. According to the Cal. Secretary of State, Lansam was incorporated on Oct. 14, 2011. Its business address and registered agent of process is an attorney and law firm in Escondino CA . This provides its “physical†location for legal purposes and there are many business reasons to have a corporation set up this way.

On November 11, 2011, Lansam posting it was looking for a “Lapel Collector Pin Grader/Authenticator.†It stated that “We are looking for an expert who has worked with cloussone [sic] and enamel and other materials used to manufactor [sic] pins. Must have a background in either manufacturing or examining pins.â€

One can interpret these facts as they will. However, it seems illogical to argue that Lansam is a non-profit organization. Moreover, a for profit corporation controlling Pinpics seems to undermine the Terms of Use and expressed purposes for the last 10 years of Pinpics. While it is true that the information and images uploaded to Pinpics become Pinpics’ property, such information was uploaded to keep the information free for all. I have personally added around 250 items to the database under this agreement. “Our goal is to make Pin Pics the definitive repository for pin information and trading. No pin selling is allowed on Pin Pics, and we are very restrictive about the use of advertisers (if any) to recover costs. The only profit from Pin Pics is the information we all share together, and most agree that it is paying off much better than anyone originally expected.†Emphases added via bold. Moreover, “[o]ur policy is that any content, including pin images, may be used or copied by anyone for any NON-COMMERCIAL purpose as long as appropriate attribution is made to Pin Pics.†Emphases via capitalization in original.

As such, until it becomes crystal clear of Lansam’s intention on future use of Pinpics, I remain skeptical that this is a positive development. While I have had disagreements with Pinpics in the past, I believe if it had been a paid service or used to support direct sales of pins, pin trading would have withered on the vine as we know it. I personally would not have added information to it. Moreover, I doubt Disney would have allowed it to flourish. That genie is out of bottle though. Unfortunately, at this stage the reassurance from Pinpics previous owners cannot be taken as a guarantee despite their best intentions. A contract is a contract.

I await a statement of intent for Lansam directly regarding Pinpics future.

kajtdd

The job posting is really interesting. I wonder if they found someone. To be honest, the more time that passes without a statement from Lansam, the more concerned I become. I am all for selling Pinpics and new owners wanting to make it a profit generating site. But the lack of any communication from them is very alarming. The announcement of the sale should have been a joint effort. The longer the wait, the less trust I feel people will have in them and their intentions for the site. The fact the old owners are posting here to stick up for them with them remaining quiet says a lot. Im sure more people would go along with whatever changes they have in mind if they are just upfront about them and not wait until further down the line. I can think of some premium features that I would be willing to pay for.

Posative Vibes only.... I for one think the fact that they are looking for sumone that can grade pins.... Is the best thing ever. Maybe all the ppl that say a price guide cant b made....are wrong. It seems to me that in all other collection hobbys.... There is sum kind of grade system to help keep fakes out of the hobby..

Lets see... Coins...get a grade...... Stamps...get a grade...... Sports cards...get a grade....

In the sport card world... a price guide comes out each month. There is also a couple of grade houses... You send in a card and pay a fee.... they send it back sealed and with a grade. If you send in a fake.. you dont get it back..

i cant wait to see the new stuff to come. This could b very good for the hobby...

I don't think anyone will argue that trying to keep fakes out of the hobby is a bad thing. However, I do feel that if someone is hired for a position like this, it should be someone respected from the community that has years and years of experience, not some random person hired off a job posting site. Blindly following can lead to serious shock and disappointment in the future...

Figgy said:

Hi Guys,

So I am gonna weigh in here on a few of your concerns. Yes we are still involved in this whole process we talk to Anthony and Samantha almost daily and we are also still moderators on both pintalk and pinpics. We aren't going anywhere. Second the core of what pinpics is right now with the TA, and access to your pins etc will always remain free. If additional major features are added those may not be but what you have right now isn't going anywhere! Third if for whatever reason they can't continue to run the website it will come back to Britt and I hopefully this puts your fears to rest about what if scenarios.

I know that they have a lot to tell you about their plans and they are planning to post something in the next day or so. Changes don't happen over night so give them some time to let you guys in on what is in the works they are gonna give you plenty of notice before they actually make any upgrades to the site.

hugs,

figgy

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Thanks for the update! It's great to hear that everything's gonna be ok!

yenne said:

Diana, several things about your post are outright incorrect. I'm going to proceed from the assumption that you're operating on rumor or conjecture instead of just making things up to incite panic.

First, allow me to clarify that the Medinas have graciously covered the hosting costs for the site. Folks may not realize how expensive this really is or how out of pocket Figgy and I were, but I'm certain that everyone will appreciate not having to rely on the donation drives every year to cover only a portion of the costs involved. Yes they have plans (which they'll announce) to add some exciting new tools for everyone to enjoy, and yes I suspect they hope to cover their expenses. This is separate from the current and ongoing operation of Pin Pics, which as Figgy said will remain freely available as it has always been.

I hope everyone recognizes and appreciates that this is a very different story than "omg they sold the ship and abandoned it!" I'm frankly somewhat offended at the suggestion, given the attention and love we've poured into this site over the last decade. Of course we and our fantastic moderators will still be partners in Pin Pics.

The fact of the matter is that I've been very busy with my job and my teenage children and I recognize that Pin Pics hasn't grown as much lately as I would have liked. The Medinas already had plans for creating their own pin trading services, and offered those same professional design resources for improving Pin Pics and covering its costs to boot. Whether you believe it or not, they're doing this for the love of the hobby and their appreciation for the work we've all put into it so far.

Figgy and I think the Medinas are the two of the kindest, most motivated people we've ever met. Perhaps you could give them a chance before drawing your own conclusions.

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Agreed -- imho, I see only good coming out of this.

Change is always scary, especially with something as established as PinPics (everyone has their routine by this point) but in the end (especially if new features or user-friendliness are improved) everyone (most?) can agree it's for the better.

KT07 said:

Posative Vibes only.... I for one think the fact that they are looking for sumone that can grade pins.... Is the best thing ever. Maybe all the ppl that say a price guide cant b made....are wrong.

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It's something i attempted long ago, but abandoned, so it's very bare-bones:

http://www.disneypinforum.com/valuehistory

Bryan
I like that..I would of used that along with Pinpics

Judy

lemec said:

I'd love to see in the "trading" & "wanted" numbers another listing of "owned" I think this would also help us weed out pins that have been scrapped...There will alwaysbe a few lazy souls that don't updatethis well, but in the case of an le 25, it wouldbecome very obvious if there was a fake source out there by having all 3 numbers readily available...I'm looking forward to seeing what they have in store for us!

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If they do show number owned - i hope that it will not be a clickable link like wanting and trading to where you can see who the people are. I do not want people bothering me asking if they can trade for pins in my collection.

In response to a price guide idea - i still believe that it will never happen. A pin is not worth the same to me as it is to you. We do not put the same dollar value on pins since a lot of our collections are of sentimental value.

I definitely like the idea of a pricing guide or something just to get an idea of the worth. Especially when trying to get our hands on our most wanted pins, fair prices, etc. because sometimes I'm like wow that's too much while other people say that's a great price. Also, when I'm selling a pin instead of trading it, I want to give a fair price and having some general idea without having to resort to ebay's past sales, etc. is definitely beneficial to me. IDK I haven't been using pinpics for all that long, but I'm excited to see what new things will be coming and along with everyone else, I'm sure I have ideas on what new things can be implemented, but whether or not the new owners reach out to the pin collectors is a different story and if they don't then they don't.
Sending positive vibes!

I've been reading everyone's concerns, and it's nice to see some of the old timers chime in as well.

I hear what you're saying about everyone losing access to the site, and all I can say is that we've made every effort to ensure this doesn't happen. I know that actions speak louder than words, and there's nothing I can say here to completely remove any skepticism, but Figgy and I believe that this is a positive change for the site.

In regards to finances, I'd like folks to recognize that there's a difference between a profit motive and site sustainability. Those of you who've been following Pin Pics since 1999 will remember our site store with our branded merchandise. It was around this time Figgy developed her extreme dislike of going to the Post Office. We had also looked into optional paid 3rd party trading services at the height of all the trading scams five or six years ago. It's never been paid services themselves we considered anathema, rather unscrupulous third parties benefiting financially without providing some reciprocal benefit to the site or the community. To give you guys an idea where this gray line has been drawn in the past, consider our eBay policy: we've allowed our pictures to be used for eBay auctions (obviously to the benefit of the sellers and with no financial benefit to Pin Pics) because linking to our site provides the purchasers with resources for making more informed buying decisions.

Pin Pics' business plan, if it could be said to actually have one, was that folks sometimes donate money and then I write checks to the hosting company. We don't need an MBA to figure out just how sustainable that is, and I'm truly humbled at the level of faith the community has invested in us to keep this model operational. Meanwhile the members have many feature requests that haven't been given nearly the attention they deserve, which is primarily a failure on my part either to find a bunch of free time or locate another developer willing to donate theirs. Several have offered over the years, but for one innocuous reason or another it's just never quite worked out.

This relationship with Anthony and Samantha represents Figgy's and my beliefs for what's in the best interests of growing the site and improving its usefulness to the pin community. Developing the site with an eye for sustainability is certainly different than how we've been running it, and perhaps a little scary at first, but the benefits of professional involvement will be tremendous. The ownership change is indicative of their considerable financial and time commitment to this improvement endeavor.

The incorporation of Lansam is just a natural consequence of money being invested to a purpose. Diana's much more expert in this than I am, but I'd personally be a lot more worried about the motives of a large company buying out the site than Anthony and Samantha following sound legal advice in protecting their personal assets. With the specter of lawsuits that constantly surround any hobby, many of our friends have accused Figgy and me of being profoundly stupid for not having incorporated Pin Pics years ago. I guess our philosophy has been that our only assets are our children, making us extremely unfavorable targets for a lawsuit.

Anyhow, I've rambled enough. I hope I've explained things a little better. Also, we can expect something from the Medinas shortly. Figgy and I have been in constant communication with them as they digest and attempt to address all the various replies and concerns.

Its nice to finally see Lansam finally say something over on PinTalk. Head over there to read their comments. Information given: Relaunch of PinTalk in the spring , PinPics and PinTalk to be merged (would love to hear more about this), Core of PinPics to remain free with "offering a few premium options for the more serious collectors", PinPics shop, PinPics will now be in 5 more languages.

Now my thoughts. I am assuming they were talking about the relaunch of PinTalk and not PinPics as they just said "this website" and it was posted on PinTalk. I would love to hear more about how they plan on merging PinPics and PinTalk. Also, I would love to hear anything about what the premium options will be. Shop, great, make some money.

"PinPics is expanding into the worldwide market of Disney and international pins. We are rolling out native sites in Italian, German, Spanish, Japanese, French and Mandarin."

I completely agree with most of these languages. I do feel that having it in Mandarin just makes it easier for the scrapper sellers to get a flood of information easier and quicker. Yes, I know that there are pin collectors from Hong Kong Disneyland and probably will be more at Shangahi Disneyland but lets not forget where 100% of all scrappers, counterfeits, bootlegs, ect come from.

When the original partnership was announced, they said that they would "combat the rampant counterfeit and scrapper issues". Nothing about a plan or changes or anything that seem to go along with their original plan and message. Yes, they did say they want to try to bring pin trading back to the days when people weren't talking about counterfeits and scrappers.

Anyways, I'm happy to finally hear something. Also, was I the only one that kept wanting to look for the fine print whenever I saw * at the end of anything?

latemetal said:

I would love to hear more about how they plan on merging PinPics and PinTalk.

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This was something I had been starting to do as well. My motivation was that vBulletin provides a very nice framework for managing "content" with respect to a contributing user base. In this sense, a pin database with user comments is really not all that different from a forum or a blog. vBulletin already provides a great platform for member management, promotion, and personalization, which would let me focus purely on writing a module to track pin information.

Furthermore, vBulletin natively provides the CSS framework for allowing the admins to change the site appearance to suit the seasons or whatever fancy takes them. This has the effect of keeping the site lively and engaging. Meanwhile the look of Pin Pics hasn't changed in like a bazillion years.

Writing a module to handle the pin database within the context of the forums and the blogs would be a huge win, while also providing the facelift that the site most desperately needs.

I'm just no expert on vBulletin, so it was taking me forever. Their hiring developers with the appropriate experience has certainly accelerated the results.

Yenne, that definitely sounds interesting and I can see benefits of that. I just hope that moving the database within the context of the forums limits any of the functionality that all of us have gotten used to and enjoyed over the years.

I have personally met Anthony and Samantha, and they are very much into this for the love of the hobby. I do not know what their exact plans are, but it will be in the best interest of the community. I am excited and you all should be too

:io:

caligirlUCR said:

In response to a price guide idea - i still believe that it will never happen. A pin is not worth the same to me as it is to you. We do not put the same dollar value on pins since a lot of our collections are of sentimental value.

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Part of the reason why i tabled the project.

however, my original idea was that people would enter what they paid/sold a pin for (dollar amounts only) so it would give some sort of historical worth over time (as it would average the prices for all known values of the pin over time).