Shilling on ebay? Ummm wow.

Let me preface this statement with IMHO. I can neither confirm nor deny that my suspicions are correct but in my experience 10+ years and several friends/family working for ebay, I have come to get a pretty good idea of shilling and this one is SCREAMING for your attention/reports.

If you are bidding on this item on the bay (DLR MALEFICENT Le Pin FLAMES & DIABLO LE PIN) and or are bidding on an item being sold by this seller OR have made a purchase from this seller that you can go back and look at the bidding activity, I suggest you look at this sellers/bidders history. Its not very often that you see this type of blatant/sloppy shilling going on. Their Iron Man Marquee that just ended was coincidentally relisted within five minutes of it ending at the exact cost ($80.00) as the zero feedback 100% bidder that won it minutes earlier. They have sold a Jessica as Mad Hatter twice to the same two 100% activity bidders, one with zero feedback one with 18 feedback ratings.

They have tons of completed auctions that have been quickly relisted, lots of retracted bids and the pattern of starting pins low and bidding them up with several many bids. If you have ever purchased anything from a seller that you suspect is shilling their listings even if it has been longer than 30 days you can/should contact ebay with your suspicions as if they confirm the seller was shilling they will have to give you your money back and or sell the item to you for the highest bid after removing ALL of the shilled bids.

This is just two of the accounts that currently bidding/winning/won several items from this seller. Honestly have you EVER seen a bidder with 61 bid retractions in 30 days, much less 82 bids on 18 items with the same seller? Umm that mean out of the 82 bids they retracted 61!! OMG how does this person still have an ebay account? All in all this is just another total suck for the pin collecting community. :down:

[TABLE="class: contentValueFont"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]18 Feedback bidder
30-Day Summary[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total bids:[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"] 82[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Items bid on:[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"] 18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bid activity (%) with this seller:[/TD]
[TD] 100%[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bid retractions:[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"] 4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bid retractions (6 months):[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"] 61
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: contentValueFont"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]Zero Feedback bidder
30-Day Summary[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total bids:[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Items bid on:[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"] 13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bid activity (%) with this seller:[/TD]
[TD] 100%[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bid retractions:[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"] 1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bid retractions (6 months):[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"] 1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Well, I just bought a pin from this person. And both the 0 and 18 bidder drove the price from $21.50 to $51.00, which is what I paid. Too bad I already left the feedback.

I've had this happen to me in the past (other bidder with 100% activity on the seller's auctions). I pointed this out to eBay and they said they'd look into it. That was about two years ago, and eBay never contacted me about the 2-3 pins I bought from that previous seller, who kept on selling. So, my guess is that eBay doesn't care, or kind of likes that they get more fees from us when shills drive up the price.

Shill bidding happens more often than any of us want to think. However, sometimes what appears to be shill bidding is just someone new to eBay who doesnt know how to wait and bid at the end.

IF you suspect someone of shilling their items, stop buying from them. I actually have sellers in my favorites list with comments like "dont buy from." or " shills" or counterfeit dealer"

I wish we had a feature to block a seller so that their items didnt come up with a search.

61 bid retractions all from the same seller is a little suspicious though, don't you think? It is true that occasionally it may appear to be shill bidding when it isn't, but in this case, a buyer bidding 100% of the time with the same seller and retracting nearly every bid that they make is pretty obvious. Every one of their items will probably be reported several times, and I imagine eBay will do nothing about it. It's a shame, because it would be incredibly easy for eBay to get rid of shilling (a simple program could just check the ip of the seller against that of the buyer, and look at their bidding history). But sadly, it's not in eBays best interest to put a stop to it. They do get a cut of whatever the shill increase was, after all.

That is just stupidity on the shill's part. Go bid on some $10 auctions - even the fake pins. Are people really that dumb?

I remember the first time I used eBay, when I was young and naive. I was first bidder on an item, and it wasn't anything big or popular, not worth much money, only a couple of pounds. Then a few days before the end, someone bid. So I bid again. So they bid, so I bid again. They bid once more, and I decided to stop bidding as it was just getting too expensive. I had been in email conversation with the seller because I had asked them a question about the item, so in my last message I thanked them for their help answering my question, but said that it had gotten too expensive for me so I would not be bidding again. They replied saying "Please bid once more, I'm sure you'll get it!" Stupidly I agreed, bid once more, and got it.

It wasn't until thinking about it afterwards that I realised that they must have had something to do with the other bidder. How else would they suddenly stop bidding against me when the seller knew I was at my limit? I didn't know enough about eBay at the time to do anything about it, and in fact didn't know the word "shilling" (except in terms of old money!) until recently. Luckily I like the item enough to not regret spending the money, but I am still annoyed when I think of how foolish I was, and how chuffed the seller must have been that I was stupid enough to pay over the price that I should have done.

It's not all bad news though, I've had some good sellers too, even when I was inexperienced and rather stupid. I once wanted only one item in a two item auction, so the seller agreed that if I won, she'd send the one and refund part of the money, but she was fairly new to eBay too and didn't know how to do partial refunds, so she just sent me the money - in coins! - with my item. She could easily have just said she couldn't refund the money and kept it, but she was honest and found a way to do as she had said she would.

I'm more careful now, though. I don't place bids too early, and I just put in a maximum that I won't go over even if I get outbid. If I suspect shilling, I won't even bother getting involved. Luckily I buy stuff that isn't really popular so often I'm the only bidder .

The stats you've posted for that user are crazy. I'm amazed that eBay will allow that many retractions! I thought they were meant to be in special circumstances only, not for over 80% of the bids you've ever placed. Dearie me!

This makes me feel so sad.

eBay does not allow accounts to bid that they suspect are associated with the seller account, physical address, IP address, etc. It is automated. Also, there are associated fees for cancelling items early, but maybe not for retractions?

This is so inappropriate, if you really don't want it to sell for a low price, add a reserve, price it higher, or cancel the auction in the allowed time limit. I sell on eBay sometimes and all this bad activity is frustrating for those who try rally hard to be honest and fair.

This is why I list on eBay "Buy It Now" with "Best Offer." Shill bidding is pathetic....I even remember someone on DPF being called out for shilling recently. I will keep quiet though lol

supertank said:

61 bid retractions all from the same seller is a little suspicious though, don't you think? It is true that occasionally it may appear to be shill bidding when it isn't, but in this case, a buyer bidding 100% of the time with the same seller and retracting nearly every bid that they make is pretty obvious. Every one of their items will probably be reported several times, and I imagine eBay will do nothing about it. It's a shame, because it would be incredibly easy for eBay to get rid of shilling (a simple program could just check the ip of the seller against that of the buyer, and look at their bidding history). But sadly, it's not in eBays best interest to put a stop to it. They do get a cut of whatever the shill increase was, after all.

Click to expand...

Well in that situation ita rather obvious. lol

ladyroselie said:

eBay does not allow accounts to bid that they suspect are associated with the seller account, physical address, IP address, etc. It is automated. Also, there are associated fees for cancelling items early, but maybe not for retractions?

This is so inappropriate, if you really don't want it to sell for a low price, add a reserve, price it higher, or cancel the auction in the allowed time limit. I sell on eBay sometimes and all this bad activity is frustrating for those who try rally hard to be honest and fair.

Click to expand...

That is actually not true. I can tell you for a 100% fact that there is no such automation. I can also tell you that the safety and harbor dept in Silicon Valley just hired over 50 people dedicated to dealing with shilling and fake accounts. If you even suspect that a seller is shilling REPORT it!! They are backlogged of course because this has been a problem since the very beginning but the software and the company are taking more seriously.

If these sellers go unreported they will continue to shill, clearly they are immoral greedy idiots and stupid to boot. Please help the community and other collectors and report all suspected shillers. It takes less than a minute and it can/should/hopefully will make a difference.

Wow! The fact that something this obvious has been going on is proof that ebay does not monitor for shill bidding ...they probably check if someone complains.

I suggest that as many people as possible look at the listing (and his other listings) and report each listing that looks hinky. It's easy to do from the listing.

imp said:

I suggest that as many people as possible look at the listing (and his other listings) and report each listing that looks hinky. It's easy to do from the listing.

Click to expand...

You can even report auctions that have ended so feel free to blow em up!

Also hoping that this is not a DPF'er...... anyone named Erika Diaz a member here?

Molly said:

That is actually not true. I can tell you for a 100% fact that there is no such automation. I can also tell you that the safety and harbor dept in Silicon Valley just hired over 50 people dedicated to dealing with shilling and fake accounts. If you even suspect that a seller is shilling REPORT it!! They are backlogged of course because this has been a problem since the very beginning but the software and the company are taking more seriously.

If these sellers go unreported they will continue to shill, clearly they are immoral greedy idiots and stupid to boot. Please help the community and other collectors and report all suspected shillers. It takes less than a minute and it can/should/hopefully will make a difference.

Click to expand...

It is not a great system but there are some small safeguards in place. I accidentally tried to put a bid on an item my roommate was selling (didn't realize it was his auction), he uses my computer sometimes, and eBay would not let me bid because of the "account association" I don't know if it was because of the physical address or the IP address match, but eBay wouldn't let the bid go through. When I realized what had happened we had a good laugh too.

There may be automatic monitoring for IP addresses and bidder addresses, but otherwise they can't be monitoring. Take a good look at this buyer's items. The shill bidding is beyond obvious.

Sadly, I can't say I'm surprised. Whatever these scammers can do to make the most money & drive up the value of the pins. I wouldn't be surprised if some even let money change hands, instead of retracting the bid, just to stoke the fire. off the subject, but i was amazed at the shtuff going on right out in the open at Mickey's Circus last year. So reminded me of the scene from the Lion King with the scavaging hyenas & that's a compliment! Just MHO....

UPDATE: I called eBay about the pin I purchased from this seller. Both the "18" and the "0" bidder mentioned by Molly bid on my pin, jacking the price up.

I looked at the seller's sold pins and found something very interesting. Several of the pins won by the "18" and the "0" bidders were relisted by the seller. Sometimes 3-4 times (won by the "18" or the "0" bidder, relisted, won by the "18" or the "0" bidder, relisted, etc.).

I contacted eBay with this information. They checked the IP addresses of the seller and these bidders and said they weren't the same (although that does NOT preclude them working together or any shill bidding). The eBay representative said they would look into it, but a seller doesn't usually lose their ability to sell until at least 3 shill bidding claims are made (really??). Hopefully, others will report them.

The representative wanted to let me know that eBay doesn't condone shill bidding. But it seemed like she was more concerned that I believe that, than in actually trying to find or fix the problem...

You should pressure them to speak to someone in the US. The overseas CSRs can do zip about it. Te stateside workers will run a check against their Paypal, addresses and even phone numbers. Even if none of that matches they can simply decide that there was fraudulent activi going on simply because the shill bids that won were relisted and won by the same bidders over and over, if you had a non paying bidder that many times you would block them from your listings.

Greed is the root of most of the worlds problems.

I watch auctions carefully and snipe at the last moment as do most people here. If the activity gets too hot on the last day/last two hours of an auction end I step away. To be honest any fair seller will know especially with disney pins that the pins 98% of the time sell for their fair market price and do not need shill bids. Rarely does an expensive pin sell really cheap unless it is mis-catagorized or mis-spelled. Folks here get their hearts and minds set on grails and spend the fair price when they come up.

So I was just bidding on a pin and was out bid by 50 cents. I did't rebid...I get a second chance offer for my original highest bid, and the bidding is private. Shady much?

Yes, could someone please explain the private bidding to me? I just lost two auctions with the same seller and one auction had 7 bids and the other auction had 10 bids. All the other bidders but me were "private". How does this work?

unibear said:

I looked at the seller's sold pins and found something very interesting. Several of the pins won by the "18" and the "0" bidders were relisted by the seller. Sometimes 3-4 times (won by the "18" or the "0" bidder, relisted, won by the "18" or the "0" bidder, relisted, etc.).

I contacted eBay with this information. They checked the IP addresses of the seller and these bidders and said they weren't the same (although that does NOT preclude them working together or any shill bidding). The eBay representative said they would look into it, but a seller doesn't usually lose their ability to sell until at least 3 shill bidding claims are made (really??). Hopefully, others will report them.

Click to expand...

Ridiculous. That behavior is a clear indication of shill bidding. If I wanted to, I could easily shill auctions by using my home computer, work computer, and my iPhone at any number of hotspots. I wouldn't even need other people and still have 3 different IP addresses. It's not that difficult to change your IP address anyway.

The Malificent pin is relisted.