Trade Auctions...People bidding for others and / or rooting for them to win...

[PrincessBecky]

OK this has been on my mind for awhile and has happened in two auctions I bid on today so I had a question for you guys.


I want to know how everyone feels about people bidding for others in auctions

AND / OR

people posting in auctions that they are rooting for a certain member to win.


I suppose it is technically allowed (unless the auctioneer states otherwise), but this has happened twice to me today in auctions I bid on (people bidding for other members or rooting for them to win) and it kind-of hurt my feelings.

Maybe I shouldn't let it bother me, but how do you think it makes the other bidders feel when you are doing this? I have worked really hard for all of my pins (time-wise and money-wise) and like to think I am very fair on everything I bid on...and when people come in and bid pins for others, or post that they hope a certain member wins, it makes me sad that some members get help and encouragement while others don't.

I would like to think that we all enter into auctions as equals, and bid based on our own merits (in this case, pins)...but because some people have met in-person, became online friends, have previously been zapped or helped out by the bidder, or for whatever other reason, choose to help them win. In theory, I also agree that this is a nice gesture, but on the other hand how does this make everyone else that bids in that auction feel? They have no one to bid on their behalf, and can only bid what they actually have.

I am a charter member of this forum, read the forum multiple times a day, and post when I feel I have something valuable to contribute. Although I may not post as much as some people, zap as much as some people (although I have zapped quite a few times and hardly ever get acknowledged), or have met most of you, I still love this forum as much as anyone else...and I dunno...something about this practice just kind-of makes me sad (not because people aren't bidding for me...I don't expect anyone to do this...more just out of the consideration of all the bidders in general).

I just wanted to know how others feel about this situation...do you not care if a certain member gets bids on their behalf, or gets cheered on by members to win? Or when you are bidding on an auction do you feel somewhat sad or upset when other people are getting encouragement and you are left to "fend for yourself"?

 

[PinHunters]

We're sorry to hear that your feelings are hurt. We've never bid for someone or rooted them to win (though we have wished good luck to people auctioning off the pins), but we doubt that their intention is to hurt others. It is a kind gesture and most people that help each other out know one another or have been helped by one another so putting up a pin for them is just paying it forward for that extra help or kind gesture... it's not a slap in the face of the rest of the people...though we can see why anyone would feel left out.

We don't know what a charter member implies but we find that the more you contribute (however small) and the more you interact with others (again, however small) changes how others feel about you. We have found that most people on here are positive people that wish others to complete their sets or find their grails so maybe their rooting is just because they know how much that pin means to someone else (but they don't know what it means to you).

It also helps going to events / releases as you get to interact with the people in real life (lol that term) and it helps people get friendlier faster because by just posting, it gets some people to warm up but fairly slowly.

All in all, good luck with everything

 

[siberiaya]

Between this and what someone recently posting ebay ... eeeekkkk:facepalm:, does not seem right ... there should be some rule!

 

[ashkai]

Not everyone lives near a park, let alone in the part of California where a lot of the events/releases are held.

So attending those things isn't really an option.

Some of only have this forum to interact with like minded individuals.

 

[jadeites-lady]

Well, it could happen out in the open (like it is happening now) or behind the scenes (where the helper sends a PM to bidder, telling them they will offer a specific pin to help them win).

It may seem unfair but would you rather have it out in the open? Or in secret?

 

[MegglesM]

Personally, I don't see a problem with people adding to other's bids. I mean, it's not really fair to claim everyone entering into an auction enters as equals. Everyone here has been in pin collecting for different amounts of time. Some people have access to LE releases that other people don't. Pin trading in general really isn't "fair"- nor is anything else in life. It's harsh, but true. And I don't see why having friends who want to help you win your grail is any more "unfair" than someone just having better pins than you in the first place.

That being said, I do think "people posting in auctions that they are rooting for a certain member to win" is unnecessary. I don't think anyone means those comments to be hurtful, but I can understand how someone would feel slighted or that people are rooting against them. And they bump the thread, which can push other auctions out of sight. I think these comments should be kept to pms.

Not trying to offend anyone... just my two cents.

 

[PinHunters]

Not everyone lives near a park, let alone in the part of California where a lot of the events/releases are held.

So attending those things isn't really an option.

Some of only have this forum to interact with like minded individuals.

We didn't mean to imply that is the only way to get to know people! We know some people don't live near the parks or releases (which even if they do, can be hard with their lifestyles or jobs). We just meant that it is much faster as we got to know more people there than through here alone....

The process online here is possible, it is, as we noticed, just a harder one and a slower one than in real life.

 

[ElysionsPrincess]

I'm sorry that you feel this way, Becky! I know that BugCatcherJenna just placed a bid for me in the Tiana and Charlotte auction...and while I am very grateful, I can ask her to remove it if you wish. I don't want you to think that I have an unfair advantage, and I certainly don't want you to harbor any ill feelings towards Jenna or I for it!

I don't think people mean it with ill intentions. I think it is just other members trying to help other members out. I know I have bid for other people in the past (well, attempted!), because I know how badly they want the pin and they are my friend. It is the same as trading a pin of yours for another person so they can have it, in my opinion. It cannot be helped if people want to help others out! I can see where it can be frustrating though, trust me, I have lost many an auction (have never won one, actually!). The only time I got an auction prize was when I teamed up with CheshireCat so she could win the Brave logo, and then she ended up getting it zapped to her, so she in turn gave it to me. I was more than happy to bid for her.

Also, I have never heard of someone asking someone else to bid in a pin auction for them. I think people do it voluntarily because they want to. So there isn't really anything like, sneaky about it, just people trying to be nice! But I see where it can be hurtful as well...

I don't know, I'm rambling now and probably confusing both myself and other people :rofl: In the end, I really think it is up to the auctioneer!
Best of luck to you in the auctions, I really mean it. :wiggle: :x:

 

[drb195]

We're sorry to hear that your feelings are hurt. We've never bid for someone or rooted them to win (though we have wished good luck to people auctioning off the pins), but we doubt that their intention is to hurt others. It is a kind gesture and most people that help each other out know one another or have been helped by one another so putting up a pin for them is just paying it forward for that extra help or kind gesture... it's not a slap in the face of the rest of the people...though we can see why anyone would feel left out.

Paying it forward should not hinder someone else's opportunity to get a pin. If you want to pay it forward, SWEET!!! I am all for that, but stacking bids in an auction is not paying it forward. While the intentions start out as good, the practice becomes manipulated by some bad seeds and will cost true collectors the pins they want.
Question: If your best pin beats my best pin fair and square in an auction, should I be able to get help from others to beat you? NO I shouldn't. That is not fair to you. Not only that, it alienates people into believing more and more how very cliquish this site has become. Just my opinion.

 

[imp]

I don't see a problem with adding a pin to someone else's bid - like any other place, there will be special friendships between some people. If I was bidding on an auction and another bidder was helped by some other member, I would see it as a friend helping a friend. I wouldn't see it as an attempt to undermine me or my bid.
As for posting comments to 'cheer on' a particular bidder, I think it depends on the comment. I haven't seen the comments you're talking about, so I can't/won't opine on those in particular. In general, if someone posted "way to go!" for someone who just made the top of the leader board, I don't see a problem. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to see a comment that one person's bid should beat another person's - I don't think there's anything technically wrong with it, it's just 'bad form'.

 

[broncobilly83]

As one of the 2 auctioneers that PrincessBecky has bids in that this happened in, I honestly do not know how I view it either. From an auctioneer point of view, it should be a good thing, and I know we are all here to help each other, but on the other hand, it does make the "playing field" i.e. bidding an uneven field for some who do not have others helping their bids as I always took the auctions to be "You bid what you have in your possession, whether it be a pre-order, trader, or part of your collection". I was actually thinking about doing a thread about this topic but they beat me to the punch.

Something else to consider, and I am using the Big Bang Theory as the example. 4 geeks buy a time machine for $800, $200 per geek. They SHARE ownership of the time machine.

2 pin collectors publicly pool their pins to bid on an auction and win. Who owns the pin? :anxious:

 

[drb195]

If you want to help someone win, that's fine. Bid and win then zap them with it. again, while the thought behind the action is good, the action itself isn't.

 

[Vixy]

I remember this came up a few months ago. I had recently done just that-- bid for someone else, because it was a super grail for them, and I wanted to do something nice for them. (It didn't come up just because of *me*, it was just the timing of the thing.)

Here's how I view it:

I personally don't mind if other people add to each other's bids, because I don't take it personally when other people are closer friends with each other than they are with me. Nobody becomes close friends with everyone they meet. Some people like each other better than others when they meet, some hit it off instantly and some never do. If people are helping each other, they aren't doing it as any kind of negative statement about *me*, and if they want to help their friends, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't; it's no different than giving your friends a pin as a present (which my close friends and I do all the time, independent of auctions). And of course I never intended to hurt anyone when I added to someone's bid.

However, when I found out that some people do feel bad when this happens, I decided to stop doing it publicly. After all, it's no more effort to PM someone and say "here, I'll give you this pin of mine so you can add it to your bid" than it is to post the bid in public. If it costs me nothing and it makes it a little less likely to hurt someone's feelings accidentally, then that's good enough for me.

 

[BugCatcherJenna]

Sorry for offending you, Becky. I really did not mean to hurt you, or any other member. I have retracted my bid.

 

[matt24256]

I think people bidding for others helps the autioneer out tremendously. I was bidding in an auction when some others were helping a couple bidders. After a while I figured out whatever I bid, it wasnt going to be enough. I kinda figured I could of kept adding pins and it wouldnt of mattered (other than the auctioneer was able to get more and more pins). The downside is the auctioneer has to wait for all the pins from several different sources (and try and keep track). Plus, what happens if some of the helper bidders dont come through. I'd rather have the helper bids out in the open though, then it would be easier to see its an uphill battle.

 

[PrincessBecky]

Thanks everyone for your opinions so far...it is nice to hear both sides of the debate. And I did not post this as a pity thread or anything like that, I just wanted to know how others felt about this practice and its fairness (or lack therof) to all members.

BugCatcherJenna...please do not retract your bid...it is not against the rules and like I said in my original post, I do think it is a very nice gesture...it just sparked a question I had and wanted to get other's opinions on the matter...but you have not offended me in any way...I just had my own personal opinion on the practice, but I by no means am trying to get people to stop bidding for others if they feel there is nothing wrong with it and it is not breaking any rules.

 

[Pin-A-Colada]

If the auctioneer allows it during their auction I truely enjoy helping others get the pin(s) they want. It is not a clique thing because most of us on this site help out random forum members via zaps or via auction. I will continue to do it for others as long as possible.

In terms of rooting, I'm doing it for the person auctioning the pin and wish them luck.

 

[Mad hatter]

I had this happen to me where others were adding to the other persons bid making it impossible for me to compete. I really don't think it should be allowed. It penalizes those of us without a hundred friends to help us out. I'm sorry you had this happen to you

 

[Nekov]

My view on the auction bidding help:
No matter what the situation, be it this or anything else, in the end there will always be someone unhappy with an outcome. It's impossible to please everyone at all times.

My other opinions:
(I know this issue very well as it's an issue with work all the time.) At work, people complain about something to be fixed and when it's fixed they only have more things to complain about and so on and so forth until they realize it was fine to begin with, they just didn't like losing.

It's only natural for people who don't have the same privilege to see this as unfair. But it's also unfair to judge.

No one ever really knows the true reason why that other person helped to begin with, it could be many reasons regardless if they've been friends for years or not. While it gives them an advantage another member may not have, maybe that just means you need to make more friends and give people a reason of why you deserve that pin more than most.

I'll admit though, I'm not innocent either, I've been guilty of envy many times (privately of course) of someone else being zapped for example, possibly 5 times in a row, I was put to shame however when I myself was zapped shortly there after.

So in a way, bidding for others, whether it be right or wrong in anyones eyes, zapping is no different. So now when I zap it's not because I'm good friends with them, but because I watch and see how badly some people want something but instead of sighing and becoming negative they help others and earn it through respect.

In which I've seen a few cases where people that don't even know the member very well have added to the bids simply because they know how kind that person is and that they truly deserve it.

However it's posts like these that sometimes make people not want to help and only see the poster portraying themselves as the victim. Whether the intention is there or not.

But chin up and try to stay positive! Sure you might encounter people adding to bids and you end up losing but as long as you stay positive eventually things will work itself out. I've even had a few auctions were people bid only to have it sent to someone else entirely as a zap.

As many people have said here, no pin (unless its the Ariel on Contract pin lol) is impossible to obtain, some might take seconds, others might take years, but eventually they will come your way one form or another.

I never thought I'd obtain any of the grails I have today but I have them, sure it's taken me almost a year but I've had fun in the adventure :hug:

 

[markheardjr]

I haven't had much luck in the DPF Auction house. It always seems people over bid to me. Maybe I'm a tightwad (sp?) when it comes to pins. But If I know I can just buy the pin online for way less than the current top 3 bidders why even bid? I like be generous with friends and have many generous friends, but some of the DPF auction bids just make me scratch my head. I guess the pins I like are just really popular. It also kinda bugs me when like everyone asks for PODMs. Even if their pin is only worth $15. But it's your auction and there are lovely people out there that might get you one. Heck, there's plenty that will just zap you and not get anything in return. But I do see princessbecky's point how it kinda makes you feel down when you really want a pin and it seems destined for someone else. Maybe you need to add some propoganda to your bid and make it clear it's a top want or grail for you too!

 

[Goofy_Moe]

I have a very strong opinion on this and Dave(drb195) basically hit it of the nose...

Our auctions are supposed to be for fun, that is why they were created just as the games are supposed to be for fun... There are numerous groups of very close friends on this site which is amazing and wonderful... But for those members who do not get too involved in the site and it's numerous threads, they also have the right to participate as everyone else does... It is truly unfair and quite hurtful to them to see posts made by others to help their friends win these pins... There should never be alienation among any of our cherished members... How would a new member to our site trying to participate feel if all the regulars ganged up on them?? I think it would suck and make me never want to come back...

If you have a friend who truly wants a pin up for auction, then be politically correct and send them a PM in private and offer to help... Never post something that may hurt or discourage another member... I personally never allow add-ons nor would I ever accept assistance to win an item... I just truly feel it is cheating other members....

Again as others above stated... This is just my opinion... My two cents... My thoughts... Blah blah blah...

 

[SoraPandora]

I did not even realize that members are allowed to add pins to other people's bids in auctions. (Guess that shows how much I know, huh?)

Personally, and this is just my two cents, I think it sounds very unfair. I agree with what drb195 said - If you want to help another person get a pin that is being auctioned off, you bid for it separately, and if you win, zap them with it.

I am not saying anything negative about people who have done this - What they did isn'tagainst the rules, and I know the people involved had the best intentions. (ElysionsPrincess and BugCatcherJenna are both total sweethearts.) But auctions are NOT about popularity, or friendship, or goodwill unto your fellow man. Auctions are about making the most amount of money possible. (Or getting the best pins, as the case may be.) From the one best bidder. Not them and their good friend Bob.

 

[PrincessBecky]

However it's posts like these that sometimes make people not want to help and only see the poster portraying themselves as the victim. Whether the intention is there or not.

But that's the whole point...I don't want help, whether it be in auctions or getting zapped by people. I want to win the auction based on the pins I have obtained through my own hard work through trading or purchasing.

And as I said, please don't take this as a pity thread. I do not want to be looked at as a victim or anything. This bidding-for-others thing just got to me today when it happened in not one, but two auctions I was bidding on, and I was curious how others felt about it.

 

[SoraPandora]

PrincessBecky - Just letting you know, I think this thread is a very good one, with a valid point to discuss, and it doesn't come across as a "pity me" thread at all. While I'm sad that this had to happen to you, I'm glad you brought it to our attention so we can all talk about it as a community. :bigthumb:

 

[docfish2u]

Personally I don't like people adding pins to other people's bids. While it is a great gesture, it does make an uneven play field. You have the pins you have and if you don't have enough to win, I am sorry.

I know some of you are thinking "aren't you the one who helped out in the Tangled designer princess auction?", yes I am. I did it because I didn't think it was fair for others to do it for some people and not everybody. Before you call me a hypocrite, I was also offered help recently and while I was thrilled that the person who offered it did so, I don't like the practice so I thanked her and turned down the offer.

As for the well wishers, I don't have a problem with it.

Jenna, I hope you don't think that Becky was speaking about you personally (my opinion about to be added) I got the impression she was just asking what others think about this practice.