A Question about Counterfeit pins

Discussion in 'Pin Comparison' started by Coriander M, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Coriander M

    Coriander M New Member

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    When did waffle patterning on the back of pins start?
    I've been reading all the " How to tell if it's a counterfeit" posts from senior members on this forum, but I've yet to see if there was a date for when waffling started, because I thought a lot of the older pins had plain backs or just textured lined backs.
    I had personally thought as recently as 2006/2006 they hadn't had waffling, but I would be happy to be wrong.
    thank you for your time
     
  2. hopemax

    hopemax DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    The Mickey waffle started about mid-2009. Prior to that pins has either a pebble back, a standard waffle with horizontal and vertical lines, making it reminiscent of the breakfast food, or completely smooth. Most park pins after official pin trading started were pebble, but not exclusively. Standard waffle were common in the 90s and non-park pins.

    I am writing this from the parking lot at Saratoga Springs at WDW, so this is going from memory. I can write more after the holidays when I get back home. There used to be a website called Dizpins.com. You can use the Internet Archive to get to their old news updates, there was a post showing off which specific pin first appeared with the Mickey Waffle. But I don't remember the specifics.
     
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  3. Coriander M

    Coriander M New Member

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    Thank you very much. Im looking at a pin set from 2006 and i was looking at different pictures trying to train myself on finding counterfeits and was wondering what dates i needed to start looking at that for.

    Would there be any other resources for learning about things like this? Pin books or the like? I really appreciate all the info ivr found on this forum anf the like but a lot of it feels scattered about.
     
  4. starry_solo

    starry_solo Judge of the Dark Court Staff Member DPF Super Moderator

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    Nope, just people's memories is what we rely on.
     
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  5. TheMickeyMouseRules

    TheMickeyMouseRules Cat Expert Mouse Authority and Paperfolder

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    Some pins still are released without the waffles (not often... But I have purchased a few, usually LEs from Disney store online). When I obtain a newly released pin (and am sure it is legit) and I add it to pinpics I try to describe the back. the description in pinpics could shed some light...

    Another option is to post the pin pic here and see if anyone has it and can state what the back looks like of their pin.
     
  6. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Cheshirefied DPF Charter Member

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    Hopemax (as usual) is correct - Dizpins was the ultimate best pin resource but sadly there is nothing comparable since it was closed and PinPics was sold to different owners.
     
  7. Coriander M

    Coriander M New Member

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    Thank you all
    Do you think it would be feasible to crowdsource enough correct information to make a well-sourced Disney pin book? Not for sale obviously, but something that could house a broader selection of information about the changes of pins through the years. What I've found most frustrating as a somewhat newcomer to the pin trade scene is the lack of one main hub of information. All the information is there, but it's expansive and hard to filter through to find what you need.

    Oh Pinpics changed owners at some point?
    Is that why the coding on the website is all wonky?
     
  8. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Cheshirefied DPF Charter Member

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    PinPics used to be a crowd-sourced, updated literally hourly amazing site that was kept constantly updated and reviewed by everyone in the community for inaccuracies. Sadly, once it was sold several years ago, it was privatized by new owners who alienated many of the former regular contributors (myself included) when they tried to monetize the site to make money from the information and photos that the community had contributed over the years. My observation is that the majority of those monetization efforts, aside from their sales of expensive Acme pins they produce/license, did not last long, but instead just turned many former regulars away from using the site. (I always kept my own database records separate from PinPics anyway but that only served my collecting theme.)

    Since that loss of so many major regular contributors because we did not want the new owners profiting from our contributions so we stopped providing daily info, photos and corrections to misinformation - and because they wanted to control the information now put on the site, the site is a pale, belatedly and only partially updated shadow of its former self. It is filled with misinformation, duplicate listings and lacks many released pins in existence and is only updated as their staff can manage.

    It's many years too late to fix and restore it to the former comprehensive site it was and the new owners sued someone who attempted to create a rival database, though one other smaller database was allowed to continue its existence and you'll see it occasionally promoted here.

    But frankly it's just too late at this point to have one comprehensive source anymore. The community, history and knowledge is all fragmented and many of the old timers have long since left the hobby (or more sadly, passed away), taking their info and pins with them.

    Only a handful of us who've been around for almost 20 years of the hobby are still around but while some, like hopemax, have a great sense of and memory for the broader picture, others like myself who always specialized in one theme and never wavered can only add bits and pieces to the history to keep it alive as best we can as new generations of collectors come and go, while those last few of us still in it for the long haul hang on as best we can.
     
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  9. Nasubionna

    Nasubionna Active Member

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    Jeez.... as someone brand new to pin collecting I was unaware of all of this and it's quite tragic to hear. Thanks for providing me some history. What a disappointment. :(
     
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  10. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Cheshirefied DPF Charter Member

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    ^ Most people in the hobby now post-date the DizPins/old PinPics days and only have been around for the aftermath/modern era.

    Sadly that means most missed the 'good old days' when people didn't have to check eBay prices before they would make a trade and when we would all add all new pins immediately to PinPics upon their discovery so it was constantly up to date pretty much to the minute. The hobby is a different thing now than it used to be - more money-driven and seller-driven than collector-driven and from my perspective, this new era really was ushered in at the time of DizPins demise and the rise of trying to make PinPics a profit-driven site by turning pins into a profit-driven hobby.
     
  11. hopemax

    hopemax DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    Since the PinPics fiasco I've been working on something. However I am not a programmer so it has been slow going. And it will never be a Trading site. Just inventories and documentation because that's as far as my knowledge will go right now. I had a goal to have all the backend stuff finished in 2017 (my alternative is for more than just pin merchandise. The pin stuff is pretty solid.) but I didn't make it. So it's not online anywhere, but in the process of planning to do something I have a lot of files saved on my computer for when it comes time to start really adding all the info.

    But my memories only go so far, so there will probably be a lot of good info missing. It worries me when I see so many people freak out about pin facts that were so well known "back in the day." Like backs before Mickey waffles or the different types of pin processes like soft enamel or domed enamel. Every one thinks fake not old. But it may be too late as far as all the education for old stuff. People are just going to believe what sounds good to them.

    Off to Epcot now.
     
  12. Ajk

    Ajk Not so new anymore.

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    While I agree there is too much focus on prices and selling rather than trading these days, it's not like we didn't have those things back in the day as well. Remember the Maleficient from the Divas event? Rarer pins are always going to be more highly valued. I think some of what we are seeing is the price of succes for the hobby. The number of people collecting has increased a lot over the years so competition goes up so prices go up. At least for certain pins. I do find it unfortunate that many people seem to be interested in the most rare pins and the idea of just collecting what you like is less common.

    In regard to pinpics, I agree that it's not quite what it used to be. And I am especially frustrated by how hard/slow it is to get pins posted. (Been trying to get my Stitch park packs on there for weeks.). BUT, it still has huge value for trading IMO. There's the wants/needs ratios of course, but the real value is in the ability to set up trades. It's still the best resource for that.
     
  13. Coriander M

    Coriander M New Member

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    Oh my god, that's insane. That said, I'm really good at writing non fiction, and if said old timers and other senior members are willing to help me scrape together the information needed I could block out a fairly decent informational piece. That said hopemax, if your site goes online going a decent amount back, that could help a lot. I just don't know the history of pins and how they've changed, and since all these websites have disappeared and changed its a little overwhelming knowing where to start to help collect and organize it.
    I would be looking to make a book/ document to be s hared on line for a specific reason though. One of the main themes I've seen talking about this is that a site went down, or changed hands, and the information was lost or the quality of it degraded. If there was a document that could be hosted and shared, it could be updated and even if the main source went down, hopefully still exist to be shared.
    That said, its kind of daunting to consider since the consensus seems to be that it might be too late, and being new, it might be something best left to those who were there.
     
  14. starry_solo

    starry_solo Judge of the Dark Court Staff Member DPF Super Moderator

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    Nothing ever really disappears from the internet. So we can still look for the Dizpins archives and find a lot of useful stuff.
     
  15. hopemax

    hopemax DPF Charter Member DPF Charter Member

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    A little update... Because memories are tricky things. Dizpins stopped their daily news updates at the start of 2009, so I thought I was out of luck, and the news must have broke through the Forum. Which was zapped out of existence when Tapatalk took over Yuku. Looking through Pinpics listings, I'm saw the Mickey waffle showed up a little earlier than I remembered. The WDW 2009 Dated pins which went on sale in December 2008 have mention of the Mickey icon back, as well as one of the New Year's pins released 12/11/08.

    See Pinpics: #67057 for New Year's Pin, 67143-67146 for WDW 2009 Dated pins

    So that brought me back to the archived Dizpins news pages. Unfortunately, I didn't see an update about the Mickey Waffles in the November 2008 and December 2008 news archives. But I own a bunch of the pins that were released during those 2 months, that don't have the Mickey Waffles, so the New Year's Pins that do are likely to be close to the first ones to have them.
     
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  16. meowmeowpins

    meowmeowpins Thats Miss Meow to mew

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    The DSSH pins.....more precisely the "all hearts" stains glass pins, they have ice cream cones, but the pattern is VERY sporadic due to the stained glass. Is that normal?
     
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