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Spotting fake pins

Spotting fake pins
J

Jungleking

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Hello everyone How can I ensure I am not trading or buying a fake pin? Any suggestions on useful resources that will help with spotting fake pins? Thanks all!
 
Fake pins are always such a bummer. Even being careful sometimes you can end up with a fake.

Easiest giveaways:
-Soft enamel "dips" -- instead of the pin being flat and flush across the face it'll dip down in the colors
-Mickey waffle on back -- should go all the way to the edge on most pins, especially hidden mickeys/disney, not always 100% full proof as I have quite a few authentic pins at this point with jacked up waffling on the back
-"1 of 5" -- on hidden mickey's they usually say they're pin ## of ##. Often with fakes the spacing will be incorrect so it would read "1 of5" instead of "1 of 5"
-Color being off -- this is where its good to know the pins you're looking for. The colors can be slightly off or sometimes majorly off. I usually compare to a website like pinpics and search other friends of mines photos for that pin or even this site using the search function

Generally the laser etched serial number on the back is a great sign but that can also be faked.
 
The waffle pattern on back going all the way to the edge (no empty boarder) is starting to seem more hit/miss. Although I think if all the other signs are present this one lends itself well to supports a pin being a fake/scrapper/POC.

A few other suggestions to consider (to supplement @OpieDoodle 's list):
- the weight of the pin. There is a heft to real pins. If the pin feels light, this is not a good sign. (Note: when the pin is small, this check is pretty much N/A... small PTDs from DSSH can feel very light... I have bought PTDs direct from the store in Hollywood which feel too light. Some of the small hidden disney/mickey pins are too small for this check... villain ties, Fab 5 in space are two HM sets I can think of where weight is a tough criteria to check.)
- thin pin. fakes are not as thick as real-deal pins.
- the edges are rough/not smooth.
The three tests above are now a habit for me when I trade in the parks. The more pins you experience the easier it will be to identify the fakes.

Finally, if you like the pin and want it for your collection. Don't spend too much time being concerned about it being a fake. Just enjoy the pin!
(Note: taking this attitude works best for low value trading. It gets rougher when you start trading higher value pins to end up with a fake/scrapper/etc.)

Final suggestion... definitely trade real pins in the parks, but buy discounted real pins from reliable sources (cost for these real but discounted traders is usually $1-$3/pin on average). This way if you end up with a fake/scrapper by accident (or design)... you didn't lose too much value in the trade.
Note: Loungefly.com currently has a couple of their pin sets on clearance. 4 pins in a set for $7.50... this is under $2/park trader. If you buy them with an additional discount during a sale on the web site, the price will drop even more. (ie, additional 20% off or buy 2 get one free deals that periodically pop up.)
 
Question about the laser etched FAC number on pin backs. Sometimes pin series have a laser etched FAC number on the back of a pin. If one pin in the series has a laser etched FAC number will all authentic pins in that series also have one? (All runs). I have so many series that I had believed to be authentic, but I realized that there was a mix of FAC etchings...Any information would be greatly appreciated. I searched for a thread on this topic on the forum but could not find anything. Please feel free to redirect me ...TY for any assistance!
 
Prettypencils said:
Question about the laser etched FAC number on pin backs. Sometimes pin series have a laser etched FAC number on the back of a pin. If one pin in the series has a laser etched FAC number will all authentic pins in that series also have one? (All runs). I have so many series that I had believed to be authentic, but I realized that there was a mix of FAC etchings...Any information would be greatly appreciated. I searched for a thread on this topic on the forum but could not find anything. Please feel free to redirect me ...TY for any assistance!
Click to expand...
It depends on the factory where the pins are made. They are not always consistent with the FAC #.
 
Thank you @momin.ator! If I am understanding you correctly, then authentic pins made in two separate factories for the same set (or same factory at different times) may or may not have the laser etch FAC# included. Is that what you meant by not consistent? For example, I adore the magical mystery pin sets. (e.g. umbrellas, lunchboxes, water bottles, etc.) made by Disney. However, when collecting them I notice that some pins that I have a high degree of confidence are authentic have the fac laser etching and others don't. This made me wonder if I was missing something in my authenticity checks or if it was possible that both could be authentic. I realize that verifying authenticity is something that comes with time and practice, but determining if this was a tell or a 'lack of consistency' will help me grow!
 
Prettypencils said:
Thank you @momin.ator! If I am understanding you correctly, then authentic pins made in two separate factories for the same set (or same factory at different times) may or may not have the laser etch FAC# included. Is that what you meant by not consistent? For example, I adore the magical mystery pin sets. (e.g. umbrellas, lunchboxes, water bottles, etc.) made by Disney. However, when collecting them I notice that some pins that I have a high degree of confidence are authentic have the fac laser etching and others don't. This made me wonder if I was missing something in my authenticity checks or if it was possible that both could be authentic. I realize that verifying authenticity is something that comes with time and practice, but determining if this was a tell or a 'lack of consistency' will help me grow!
Click to expand...
Since you have found us here, you can also ask people to post pictures of their authentic pins. But yes, the pins could even have different FACs if they are made in different factories.
 
While there is a lot we don't know about how FAC numbers are assigned there are some things we know. I have a pin next to my computer which has a number of

FAC-068053-23200

You'll notice I've changed the colors in a few different places. The red one first. This indicates the year the item was produced. This is true for pins and non-pins. If you've bought a Christmas ornament, or a toy, etc. You will probably be able to find a number like this. This helps for dating things. Although, a pin with a 23 might not have actually been available for sale on a rack, in a retail location, until 2024.

The green number, I believe identifies the Factory. We aren't privy to what number goes with what factory, but I think Disney knows. The same way that a UPC code, the first group of numbers indicates a unique Company prefix. So in theory, one of the database sites could generate a report with matches for that number, and we could see what pins were produced where. I am especially curious on how a list like this would map to counterfeits. If many counterfeits came out of the same factory, it might indicate other pins that might be risky. Or vice versa, identify a factory that has tighter controls and fakes don't get made.

The last 3 numbers I think might be some sort of internal tally. Like maybe this pin was made in the 200th batch of the year. Or the 200th production day of the year.

Plus, there is the way that number is added, which indicates if it was produced in a different factory. Some factories use etching, some printed, some molded. Again, some deep research and mapping might be interesting.

So to answer the original question. If the first number is different then it means that pin was produced in two different factories. This happens with Disneyland vs WDW vs HKDL pins. If the last number is different, it means there were multiple runs on that pin design, produced in different years (or maybe even the same year, another curiosity maybe worth deep researching). If both numbers are different it means there were multiple runs, and they were done in different factories (Disney seems to change factories regularly).

A small batch, LE pin, sold in a single retail location like WDI, WDCS, DSSH probably should only have one number. But maybe there are examples where half a batch was fine, but they had to redo the second half, so the second number would be different, but maybe close?
 
I've actually never paid much attention to FAC #s (although maybe I should). Are there cases where a pin would sometimes not have an FAC at all and sometimes have it? (Not different FACs, but present or not.) Seems like they would either be there or not?
 
Ajk said:
I've actually never paid much attention to FAC #s (although maybe I should). Are there cases where a pin would sometimes not have an FAC at all and sometimes have it? (Not different FACs, but present or not.) Seems like they would either be there or not?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure there are zero examples, but usually the lack of a laser or printed FAC number, when most pins have them, is a sign of being a counterfeit or actual Disney scrap making its way into the marketplace. A final step, that only the pins being sent in Disney's order have. Before they settled on the FAC- format, you may have noticed a P-, N-, T- or several other similar numbers. For those, it is possible for an open edition style to pre-date the use of the number, and then be re-released and then have the number. But now that it's been many years under the FAC standard, and styles of pins have turned over, all new pins should have them. Although, through examination, we have seen that Disneyland Paris will print an FAC number on the card, but not include the number on the pin, itself. Oh! I just remembered... the New Fantasyland Beauty and the Beast mystery set has been in production so long the original pins don't have numbers at all, but kept getting re-released and so newer versions do. This came up in a Pin & Pop Trade Arcade authenticity question. So in that case, a pin that just won't die, yes!

Explaining the Factory control numbers is on my list of Guides I want to get completed and published in 2025, so if anyone has any other questions, I can try to answer. Although, I'm mostly just guessing with experience.
 
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@hopemax Thank you for all of this yummy information! I have so many magical mystery pins without FACs. I started to worry that they were all not authentic...until I opened a pack myself that did not have them. Since then I have not known what to think :P.

Super short history I used to buy pins, but only at the parks. I was introduced to trading and did not know about fakes. I made some big mistakes and have been super conservative since. Yet, even trading only with highly reputable sellers (no ebay), I have ended up with a few fakes. Trying hard to be a smart consumer. Thanks again!
 
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