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Should there be a no tied leader board rule?

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Should there be a no tied leader board rule?
I try valiantly to have a no tied position in my auctions. I feel that occationally an auctioneer says 2 people are tied for the express nefarious purpose of getting people to increase their bids. Don't bite my head off for that comment folks, it is true, and we all know it has happened once or twice. I point no fingers, name no names, and that is a totally open statement.

That being said... The booster pack auction I just did is a great example of a situation where a tied position is well and truly a TIE. I chose not to set them as tied, but I had 2 people bidding mulan podm frames of similar values, with additional pins that also equaled out to be incredibly similar. That auction was based entirely off trade/sales values, not off my wants, which made it a great example of why a tie can happen.

Inherently, the Auction house auctions are preference based. Meaning that the bid the OP/auctioneer likes best wins. And the winning bid might be something completely wacked in another persons opinion. But as a preference based auction, really?? You really can't decide who is in first? Or which pin you like better? Ties should be a seldom thing, but the crop up regularly. And if you tied 2 people because you didnt want to offend one of the bidders, stop worrying about that. It is an auction, there is only 1 winner, so eventually, your going to upset someone who bid.

No, I do not think there should be a rule against tied leader-boards. However, if an auctioneer does it regularly, there is a problem.

And if we have a MOD who's entire job is sales/trades/auctions... that can be monitored.
 
I've had an instance where I was told on the leader board that I was "slightly in the lead". No other bids were made before the auction ended and I didn't win. So who knows :)
 
So let's quite comparing this to real auctions where the only currency is cash. Everybody's money is the same. Pin bid however are not.

Again, I notice in a lot of the arguments to have no ties, it is mentioned that the leader has to add pins to be sure they win in a tie situation. NO YOU DON'T!!! You can let it ride and take your chances.

Are the auctioneers hoping to get additions to bids with ties, sure sometimes that happens. If you don't like it don't bid. People need to take accountability for their own actions. I bid in a blind auction and misread what the Limited edition was. I thought it was an LE 100 and it was an LE 1000. Did I cry about it? No! It was my mistake and I lived with it. If you don't like having to bid higher, don't and you can live with that decision.

Most of us are adults and we should act like it. If you don't like it don't do it. Goes for a lot of things in life.

Again, just my opinion.
 
docfish2u said:
So let's quite comparing this to real auctions where the only currency is cash. Everybody's money is the same. Pin bid however are not.

Again, I notice in a lot of the arguments to have no ties, it is mentioned that the leader has to add pins to be sure they win in a tie situation. NO YOU DON'T!!! You can let it ride and take your chances.

Are the auctioneers hoping to get additions to bids with ties, sure sometimes that happens. If you don't like it don't bid. People need to take accountability for their own actions. I bid in a blind auction and misread what the Limited edition was. I thought it was an LE 100 and it was an LE 1000. Did I cry about it? No! It was my mistake and I lived with it. If you don't like having to bid higher, don't and you can live with that decision.

Most of us are adults and we should act like it. If you don't like it don't do it. Goes for a lot of things in life.

Again, just my opinion.
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This x 1,000,000
 
I don't think it needs to be an official rule but an optional one, as many points here have stated, if you don't like the way it's being run, don't participate, everyone is entitled to run their auctions the way they want. If they include it fine, if not, that's fine too.

When I had ties in my auctions it truly was because I could not decide between two pins, never expected anyone to bid more.

More often than not the two pins I struggled deciding on were pins from my signature and when that's the case, it's harder to decide "which one do I want most since both are being offered at the same time?"
 
StoneColdBoo316 said:
But As much As I see how what youre saying Fair nothing stops from if an hour before they post leaderboard but although he put me second to get more from me I don't add anything even if I was offering what he ACTUALLY wanted and it ends without another leaderboard he can post declaring who was in 2nd place the winner and just say
"I changed my mind" you see what I'm saying? I personally dealt with some frustrating tied leaders so I see where the unfair feeling stems from.
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Yeah, I see what you mean, but in that circumstance I feel like the whole concept of a leaderboard crumbles because that just makes them wrong and a flatout lie if given that circumstance. If the person puts the pins they really want in 2nd place and the auction ends with them in 2nd place, the person in 1st place should be able to say something about how they thought they were in first so they didn't feel the need to add anymore pins so that is an unfair auction. I feel like that should be taken to the mods if that were the case because that is truly unfair to the person in #1. Why even post a leaderboard if it isn't true and your just spreading false hope? :(

bryanag135 said:
My decision is tied as to whether or not there should be leaderboard ties. :lol:
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You're just trying to make some of give this thread more responses!!! YOU MONSTER!!! haha jk
 
I've said it before. Pick a leader board no ties. All a tie does is mean you want more and you want to see if you can get higher bids. I suppose a tie for 2nd or 3rd places are fine, but only one person can be in the lead at a time. Just my opinion though.
 
kupo1121 said:
Yeah, I see what you mean, but in that circumstance I feel like the whole concept of a leaderboard crumbles because that just makes them wrong and a flatout lie if given that circumstance. If the person puts the pins they really want in 2nd place and the auction ends with them in 2nd place, the person in 1st place should be able to say something about how they thought they were in first so they didn't feel the need to add anymore pins so that is an unfair auction. I feel like that should be taken to the mods if that were the case because that is truly unfair to the person in #1. Why even post a leaderboard if it isn't true and your just spreading false hope? :(
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Isn't this really an argument for allowing ties? If the auctioneer is truly conflicted about the top 2 or 3 bids, forcing a straight 1, 2, etc leaderboard will means that either the auctioneer is 'locked in' to a decision he/she is still considering OR bidders get upset because they thought they were in the lead but then didn't win. I suspect that if ties were not allowed, leaderboards would be posted far less frequently, because the auctioneer hasn't decided on a ranking. Then the same people who suspect that ties are a ploy to get higher bids will suspect that the auctioneer isn't posting a leaderboard to achieve the same effect that a tie might produce.

No one is forced to bid. Trade auctions definitely have a tendency to end up in "trading up", but it's up to the bidder to decide how much he/she is prepared to bid.

Just my 2 cents...probably worth 1 cent tops.
 
I have only held one auction, and I had loads of ties, as a first auction I didn't know what to expect bidwise and was astounded by any bid placed so almost wanted to place all as a thank you for bidding . I tied my first places as one person had bid multiple pins that were high on my wants where as another had bid one of my grails so was torn between ticking off a grail or a few of my most wanted if that makes sense. I know at the end of the day I would have to make a descision but I think it was better than keep on swaping the 1st and 2nd place depending on my mood. For me it wasnt a ploy to get more bids but in my mind make it fair descision at the end of the day. I have yet to bid in an auction so maybe I would feel differently.
 
I have seen on here many times that people think that ties are just a ploy to up people's bids. Isn't that the point of an auction??? for bidders to keep upping their bid to win???
 
So let's quite comparing this to real auctions where the only currency is cash. Everybody's money is the same. Pin bid however are not.
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An auction, be it for pins or money is not about equality, but who is willing to spend the most in the alotted timeframe. you are absolutely right though, you can let it ride, but risk the chance of losing.

There are no ties in cash auctions, but the point is to get the most you can for the item you are auctioning.
 
drb195 said:
I have seen on here many times that people think that ties are just a ploy to up people's bids. Isn't that the point of an auction??? for bidders to keep upping their bid to win???
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Yes, fundamentally, the idea is to get as much as possible for your pin. money auctions there is no tie, ever. However this is a pin bid auction, not a money auction.

I have seen ties in which one bid is obviously better than the other, or leaderboards with no tie but the first place bid is incredibly lower in "value" that others. Since the auctioneers I have seen do this... do it over and over and over... that tells me they are trying to get people to overbid to win.

I see no problem with an occasional tied leaderboard. But when it happens in every single auction a person runs, multiple times in those auctions on a regular basis... It makes me cautious, or even makes me not want to bid. The auctions already end up being trades in favor of the auctioneer (as a regular auctioneer, i realize this) Ties just make people more likely to overbid even more than before.

Basically:
  • a bidder likes to know where they stand.
  • ties over and over scare bidders off your auctions.
  • Don't abuse the "tie" option.
 
Psycho Pixie said:
I have seen ties in which one bid is obviously better than the other, or leaderboards with no tie but the first place bid is incredibly lower in "value" that others.

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Is this statement by your standards? Because you, I , the next guy value pins differently. What is a grail to you, may be crap to me. I'm just sayin, you should not use blanket statements like obviously to voice an opinion, again just sayin :) Would you like some coldstones??????
 
Psycho Pixie said:
Yes, fundamentally, the idea is to get as much as possible for your pin. money auctions there is no tie, ever. However this is a pin bid auction, not a money auction.

Yes but in money bids, everybody is using the same money system, the winner is the one who bids the most. There is no opinions about money where there is on pins.

I have seen ties in which one bid is obviously better than the other, or leaderboards with no tie but the first place bid is incredibly lower in "value" that others. Since the auctioneers I have seen do this... do it over and over and over... that tells me they are trying to get people to overbid to win.

Again, obviously better is a subjective opinion. What is better to me might not be better to you.

I see no problem with an occasional tied leaderboard. But when it happens in every single auction a person runs, multiple times in those auctions on a regular basis... It makes me cautious, or even makes me not want to bid. The auctions already end up being trades in favor of the auctioneer (as a regular auctioneer, i realize this) Ties just make people more likely to overbid even more than before.

This is a chance the auctioneer is taking. If it turns bidders off, the auctioneer only has themselves to blame. Yes usually the auctions favor the auctioneer, isn't that why we put stuff up for auction, we are hoping to get something better then what we have. Nobody is forcing anybody to up their bids.

Basically:
  • a bidder likes to know where they stand.
  • ties over and over scare bidders off your auctions.
  • Don't abuse the "tie" option.
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I agree , bidders do like to know where they stand. When I am bidding, I am hoping to be in the top three so I know if I want to add more to my bid or not. I have never been bothered by ties. Gives me an idea how close I am and let's me know how good the pin I want to add should be.

As stated elsewhere, auctions by nature are trying to get the most you can for the item you are putting up. That is true with any kind of auction. You are taking a risk as the auctioneer that you might get nothing or you might get gold.

For me that is the fun of being on both sides of auctions. The thrill of chase.
 
pargani said:
Isn't this really an argument for allowing ties? If the auctioneer is truly conflicted about the top 2 or 3 bids, forcing a straight 1, 2, etc leaderboard will means that either the auctioneer is 'locked in' to a decision he/she is still considering OR bidders get upset because they thought they were in the lead but then didn't win. I suspect that if ties were not allowed, leaderboards would be posted far less frequently, because the auctioneer hasn't decided on a ranking. Then the same people who suspect that ties are a ploy to get higher bids will suspect that the auctioneer isn't posting a leaderboard to achieve the same effect that a tie might produce.
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I don't think it supports ties. I understand that the auctioneer can be conflicted, it happens. I'd be lying if I said it never happens. However, the person is only locked in if they let the auction end with that leaderboard. Given no extra bids, only the final leaderboard is locking, as it should be. I don't think leaderboards would be posted THAT much less and personally, I'd rather see a decisive leaderboard every once in a while than one that is unstable and everyone is tied every 2 minutes, but that's just my opinion. However, you are right, infrequent leaderboards can also be seen as a ploy, hence why it is an imperfect system (there really isn't a way to perfect it honestly). However, given an auction, I think one should prepare prior to it and seriously consider what pins might beat out all others so that when the time comes to post a leaderboard, you can think about it and figure out, given no additional bids, who would win.

P.S. You cents is worth just as much as my cents and David's and Kristine's... everybody's. So if your's is only worth 1 cents...that's fine, so are the rest of our's ^_^
 
So, if a person auctioning a pin sets a leader board with Bidder A as #1 and Bidder B as #2 and nobody else bids again before the auction ends, does the auctioner have to choose Bidder A (since they were listed as #1) or can they change their mind and pick Bidder B (or C)? Are leader boards "legally binding"?

I ask this as someone who has never hosted an auction...
 
unibear said:
So, if a person auctioning a pin sets a leader board with Bidder A as #1 and Bidder B as #2 and nobody else bids again before the auction ends, does the auctioner have to choose Bidder A (since they were listed as #1) or can they change their mind and pick Bidder B (or C)? Are leader boards "legally binding"?

I ask this as someone who has never hosted an auction...
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Technically I don't think they are, but I think they should be. I mean, leaderboards aren't really required so let's say that Person A is winning and then in the last hour Person C comes out of nowhere and bids 20 Tangled BTs (Person C would be Darris in this lol) but the person doesn't update their leaderboard, of course they can still choose Person C. So I don't think a leaderboard at the moment is binding, but I think, given nobody else adds any bids, it should be within a reasonable time (like if your last leaderboard is 2 days prior, I can understand changing your mind, but if it is 20 minutes or an hour beforehand, you should have made up your mind by then I think).
 
On my auction right now, I had two bids I really wanted so I put them both joint 1st and 2nd till I had a little more time to decide on what I wanted to do and had a bid in 3rd place so the first 2 spots were tied equally till I had made a decision which one would be 1st or which one would be second as there was no need to place them both 1st when one would out way the other in terms of what I was looking for.
 
My opinion is when updating a leaderboard, the auctioneer should view it as if the auction were to end at that moment, who would they choose to win if no other bids were to be made...thus can't be a tie.
 
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