Should there be a no tied leader board rule?

[Arielskellington1423]

Haha I can admit I've had a few like that :suspect::crazy: i know :facepalm: But I was lucky enough to get some "higher end pins" a few weeks back so I really wasn't that used to having such great bids and WE were really on opposite sides with people bidding mostly towards mine or his collection/ most wanted. I know with my more recent auctions ive been working it, Its good to know how people feel about it to better opperate auctions the way an auctioneer sees fit. like kupo said there's really no absolute solution to this, any way it's done there will be a flaw and someone will be unhappy!

yes, sometimes is totally understandable. But I think what it boils down to is when people do Ties in every single auction, is that really acceptable?

 

[Psycho Pixie]

Haha I can admit I've had a few like that :suspect::crazy: i know :facepalm: But I was lucky enough to get some "higher end pins" a few weeks back so I really wasn't that used to having such great bids and WE were really on opposite sides with people bidding mostly towards mine or his collection/ most wanted. I know with my more recent auctions ive been working it, Its good to know how people feel about it to better opperate auctions the way an auctioneer sees fit. like kupo said there's really no absolute solution to this, any way it's done there will be a flaw and someone will be unhappy!

true that!!!!

 

[Mad hatter]

I have had some time to think about this and I don't like the whole tied thing but .... I don't like when someone is I. The top three and "bows out" because I may change my mind my top three are subjective and not definite until the end and I post a winner I have used the whole tied thing to keep people from bowing out because I hadn't made my mind up.

 

[Psycho Pixie]

I have had some time to think about this and I don't like the whole tied thing but .... I don't like when someone is I. The top three and "bows out" because I may change my mind my top three are subjective and not definite until the end and I post a winner I have used the whole tied thing to keep people from bowing out because I hadn't made my mind up.

you bring up a very good point that i think also needs to be discussed.... Should the top 3 be permitted to bow out?

Maybe we need another thread for that?

 

[docfish2u]

you bring up a very good point that i think also needs to be discussed.... Should the top 3 be permitted to bow out?

Maybe we need another thread for that?

I think only the leader should not be allowed to back out. If I am in third place or even second and I know I am not going to add to my offer there should be no way possible I could win, why not bow out and let somebody else have a shot?

 

[Psycho Pixie]

i am with you on that David, but it is something i have heard grumbles about. It is a topic the needs to be clarified a bit.

 

[Mad hatter]

Even if your in second or third I may change my mind after sleeping on it again the leader board in MY auctions is subjective I like to have the option to make up my own mind and that sometimes changes just saying for me the rankings are not etched in stone and I'm just saying I don't think top 3 should be allowed to back out I thought I read in DPF rules and I could be wrong once you submit a bid its a valid bid I could be wrong

 

[Mad hatter]

Ok found it here is what I read in the rules

All posts and threads in the auction house can not be edited. Be sure to read through your original posts and bids carefully before posting, as the first post is final.

Now in my opinion that means your bid is a bid can't be taken back maybe I'm reading it wrong

 

[imp]

I would agree that the auctioneer can change his/her mind about who's in first, but I also agree that only the #1 spot should be 'locked in'. If I place you 2nd and you bow out, well that's the chance I took.

 

[Psycho Pixie]

Ok found it here is what I read in the rules

All posts and threads in the auction house can not be edited. Be sure to read through your original posts and bids carefully before posting, as the first post is final.

Now in my opinion that means your bid is a bid can't be taken back maybe I'm reading it wrong

however, going by that interpretation we cannot change our bids either.

 

[Rocke01]

I was just a bidder in which I was winning for a while. The person running the auction had a change of heart and I dropped to third. I need to mention that one of the other two had upped their bid. I do not have a problem with a change of heart because it has happened to me. In fact, it is because of that that I choose to use ties. It lets the bidder know how close they really are. I also like to post side notes when applicable. I am NEVER trying to get someone to bid more. If someone wants to think that they can. My personal integrity doesn't let me work like that. Anyway, I digress.

After this happened the other person upped their bid. At this point I knew I was not willing to bid as much as the others and I bowed out. This allowed someone else to make the leader board. Let me say here that people have told me that if they do not make the leader board they will not bother bidding any more. The person that then ended up on the leader board bid until the last second and while only coming in second may not have bid any more at all if I had not bowed out. In my mind I was opening up the spot for someone else to go for.

I am not so naive that I don't realize there are those that are only looking for what they can gain. Those people are always going to be there. The reality is that the vast majority of us are just good people that are having fun with our collections in whatever way we choose to do it. I enjoy doing auctions to win pins to offer in games that I also enjoy. David likes to bid on pins and ZAP people like very few on the site equal. Kristine likes to run auctions and get pins she can work with for her zaps and collection. We all have our reasons for doing what we do. None of us are trying to put one over and although I can not speak for everyone I enjoy the auctions as they are except for the auctioneer not being able to refuse bids.

I think if the auctioneer is required to give up their pin they should have the right to refuse a bid that is blatantly against what they are looking for. I have seen people bid a hidden mickey on an auction when it says that they auctioneer does not want hidden mickeys. It has not happened to me but I have seen it happen and I think that is wrong!

I must also say that I disagree with what Kristine said about seeing auctioneers listing lesser bids higher than better pins. I take what I need for what I am doing and it is usually stated in the first entry. Everyone likes what they like. I love EZRA pins. Not many here like EZRA for some reason. I don't like most horse pins like Kristine does. If someone were to bid a LE2000 Ezra and I was looking for my collection I would probably take it over an LE250 horse pin. If I was looking for my games I may take the LE250 Horse pin over the higher edition Ezra pin. It all depends on what someone is looking for in their auctions. I think for someone to judge someones auction is unjust. You don't know what they are thinking or what they are trying to achieve. Because they do not value the pins the same way you do doesn't mean they are trying to be devious in some way.

Jumping off my soap box now.... sorry

 

[jsutherin1]

Darlene has a very valid point about posting the ties. It was my auction she was bidding in and after reading all the posts about not listing the ties I tried to do it without them. However those 3 bids were so darn close I didn't know what to do. All of them included at least one pin from my signature as well as pins from my 2 main collections right now and each bid was 4 pins apiece. Ultimately someone raised their bid and I adjusted the leaderboard and changed the spots around. Darlene bowed out and the person right below her in 4th moved up on the board. They ended up bidding the tangled gondola pin (which I ultimately did not accept). I know some people don't like the ties or other bidders bowing out but I think it should be fair for both the auctioneer and the bidders too

 

[kupo1121]

I would agree that the auctioneer can change his/her mind about who's in first, but I also agree that only the #1 spot should be 'locked in'. If I place you 2nd and you bow out, well that's the chance I took.

The only problem I see with only #1 being locked in is that we'll start seeing leaderboards like this:

1. Person A/ Person B/ Person C/ Person D (all tied because so close
2. Person E
3. Person F

Because since the 4 people are all tied in first, they can't drop but can only add pins. So really, having the only first can't drop thing will only make tied leaderboards more rampant seeing as how everyone tied for first cannot drop

I think it would make much more sense for 1st and 2nd to not be able to drop in case the auctioneer believes them both to be really close and isn't sure if they might change their mind later on.

 

[Psycho Pixie]

I must also say that I disagree with what Kristine said about seeing auctioneers listing lesser bids higher than better pins. I take what I need for what I am doing and it is usually stated in the first entry. Everyone likes what they like. I love EZRA pins. Not many here like EZRA for some reason. I don't like most horse pins like Kristine does. If someone were to bid a LE2000 Ezra and I was looking for my collection I would probably take it over an LE250 horse pin. If I was looking for my games I may take the LE250 Horse pin over the higher edition Ezra pin. It all depends on what someone is looking for in their auctions. I think for someone to judge someones auction is unjust. You don't know what they are thinking or what they are trying to achieve. Because they do not value the pins the same way you do doesn't mean they are trying to be devious in some way.

My thoughts were of a specific auction in which it really was case of everyone who bid saying "HUH?" It was a long time ago, and the only thing I really remember about it was the bad frame of mind it put several people in. The person who won turned out to be a friend of the auctioneer who bid "just in case" the auctioneer didn't like any of the bids.... Thats what I heard later anyway.:facepalm: Nonsense and idiocy right?

If someone likes Stitch, and the first place bid is Stitch even if its an OE compared to Le bids below it, I totally get that. It's all good. I was not saying that value was monetary or trade only. I refer to "value" in this order: personal want/trade/monetary.

the idea of being able to "bow out" and give someone else a chance at the leaderboard is Incredibly Valid. I completly agree with the idea. And have done it myself many times. A tied leaderboard just puts more people on the top three spots.

 

[fordracing31]

I just feel like you aren't hurting anyone by making them tied. I share trades/wants list with two other people so its hard to decide sometimes with different combinations of pins. I like not having to stress out about making a 100% final answer leaderboard right away. One auction that I tied two people it took me a few hours to honestly decide which one i liked better and I like having the freedom to do so. I would hate to have a leaderboard and have no ties and then when I'm announcing the winner think more decide I liked the second place persons bid more. Just because the rules said I couldn't tie anyone. That would just suck for the first place person.

I agree I had a tied bid for first once at the end of the auction and it took me a good nights rest to choose the winner. The bid was actually in my dream so I woke up with the winner but I am glad I had that chance to sleep and think it over because they were both great bids. Also if I am tied with someone, in second, third, etc. it is up to me if it is worth bidding more pins on. Lately I have had to stop bidding on a lot of auctions and actually trying not to look at them since I am out of good pins and money to get good pins.

 

[docfish2u]

The only problem I see with only #1 being locked in is that we'll start seeing leaderboards like this:

1. Person A/ Person B/ Person C/ Person D (all tied because so close
2. Person E
3. Person F

If I was bidder a, b, c or d, I would be okay with this. Let's me know I am right there. I suppose that hurts your no ties thought thow. :lol:

 

[ryanfury]

An untied leaderboard is saying "one of you has to bid more to win." A tied leaderboard is saying "All of you have to bid more to win." I believe leaderboards should be made with a "If the auction ended right now..." mentality, in which a tie would not be possible.

I don't think anyone can disagree that auctions are routinely overbid, resulting in sometimes very lopsided trades. As a fan of balanced trades, I don't think overbids should be encouraged, and tied leaderboards do that. If it's close, you could always quantify second and third with "it's very close," which would indicate they only need to bid a little bit more.

 

[kupo1121]

If I was bidder a, b, c or d, I would be okay with this. Let's me know I am right there. I suppose that hurts your no ties thought thow. :lol:

Yes it does...yes it does lol haha xD

 

[Rocke01]

It seems to be that those that run auctions and know how hard it is to make up your mind at times understand the "ties" thing. What I do not understand is the "overbidding" thing. No one requires a person to bid. People bid what they want to bid. Just because it is more that you feel the pin is worth does not mean it is more than the next person is willing to give. The truth of the matter is you seldom get a "Grail" bid in an auction. It is usually pins that are not so high on your wants list. Usually what you receive isn't what you are actually looking for. That was the reason I started doing auctions for pins for games. It really doesn't matter if the pin is on my wants or not, just that I can use it in my games. I have noticed that Kristine does auctions like that too. The way I see it is it is a win win. The people bidding get what they are looking for and they don't really have to give up comparable pins. Maybe they give up more than one for one but (just using LE as an example here) it will be 2 LE 2000 for 1 LE500 or 2 newer pins for 1 older pin you can no longer get. Worth is usually in the owners hands in a regular trade IMO but in the case of auctions it is in the hands of the bidders. The bidders decide the value with what they bid. You might have seen people bidding tons of pins for Darris's auctions for the designer princess but what you didn't see was someone bidding pins that were valued at hundreds each. Generally people would rather bid more lesser pins than pins of comparable value. I have seen people trade and entire book of trader pins or sell all of them just to get a grail they want. There really is no difference.

In giving this a little more thought... When I was working on my PODM set I would bid maybe 5 DShopping pins or whatever for one of them. I didn't care what I had to bid because I wanted them all. Now I have collected at least 1 of each movie so I do not trade as hard for them as I did. I imagine if one of my Grails scenes I still want to upgrade to came along I would trade harder, I don't really know. When someone has pins but no money to buy auctions are your only option. I was grateful to the people that were auctioning off their pins because it gave me an opportunity to get them. I only ended up coming out of pocket for 4 Steamboat Willie ones out of the 24. I felt truly blessed by that and grateful for the auctions I won.

 

[docfish2u]

An untied leaderboard is saying "one of you has to bid more to win." A tied leaderboard is saying "All of you have to bid more to win." I believe leaderboards should be made with a "If the auction ended right now..." mentality, in which a tie would not be possible.

I don't think anyone can disagree that auctions are routinely overbid, resulting in sometimes very lopsided trades. As a fan of balanced trades, I don't think overbids should be encouraged, and tied leaderboards do that. If it's close, you could always quantify second and third with "it's very close," which would indicate they only need to bid a little bit more.

Yes there eventually needs to be a final leader, but if it is close and the auction isn't ending why should I tie myself down to one choice?

If people do not want to bid higher, they do not have to!!!

 

[fordracing31]

Yes there eventually needs to be a final leader, but if it is close and the auction isn't ending why should I tie myself down to one choice?

If people do not want to bid higher, they do not have to!!!

Correct I have had a tie in an auction and neither person bidded more which is fine and I had to pick a winner but I had time to think about it. Yea I wish all my auctions had easy clear choices but sometimes it doesnt work that way. Also I have been tied with another bidder before and I either bidded or didnt bid more it really depends on how bad I want the pin or even what I have to offer. I don't feel cheated or upset if this happens you win sometimes and you lose sometimes.

 

[Ozzie1988]

the thing i keep herring in both threads is this, "your close" to me close means your not 1st but 2nd and not in a tied spot. this is also pointless because in the end the 2nd or 3rd spots become 3rd and 4th. so it should be something like

1.
(a)
(b)
3.
4.

and not

1. A, B
2.
3.

 

[Rocke01]

Isn't that just semantics? I mean, does it really matter how it is listed?