Bad Pin Trading, and when to leave negative feedback.

[Constance]

Hey everyone.

After recently returning to the forums and discovering that I had been left bad feedback for a pin trade that, frankly, had everything go wrong, down to the package being returned to me, and after finding the thread where the transaction was talked about and seeing even friends of mine say to leave negative feedback, and seeing negative feedback posts all over frankly, I'd like to say something.

Sh*t happens. I was hospitalized and very ill, and upon returning home I broke my foot upon being sick. It took me a bit to get the pin out because I'd been sick since December. I am struggling with the beginning phase of MS and a weakened immune system, so I am not always timely because I am often not feeling well, but things don't normally go this badly. When I am sick I am honestly not thinking at all about anything, and this is likely the case for most people when they are actually ill/injured.

What I want to talk about is sympathy and understanding. I have waited MORE than a few months for pins, heck a friend sold me a pin that I never got but I've not left negative feedback for him because he's 1) my friend and 2) In the long run, it wasn't that much money and I know he'll make it up to me.

When you know someone is ill or is struggling, what I want to ask for is a little patience. Two to four months is a long time to wait for something, sure, but you never know what's going on with them on the other side, and as LONG AS THEY HAVE COMMUNICATED that there is a problem to you and that it might take a bit, then give them a few months to make it right before you just off and leave them negative feedback,and CONTINUE to communicate. I had no idea she hadn't gotten her pin until we got the pin back, I can't know when the mail has screwed up! It took my husband two weeks after that to refund her because when you're dealing with having to care for someone who is seriously injured/ill your mind is completely focused on them. NOT that I haven't yelled at my husband for taking two weeks to refund her, but he was frazzled beyond words so I am not going to make him sleep on the couch for it. For me, personally, and I have done this on ebay and etsy AND with pin trades, if someone is ill or has communicated that they're delayed, I will give them six months total to fix it, but if it's not fixed by then I will take action.

Now, if they haven't communicated with you at all, then that's a different story. I think there should be a policy about paypal as a gift for large orders anyways, that you should send it for goods and the seller should pay the fees, they can even add them to your tab if they really have an issue paying three dollars or whatever, it's never been more than that for me.

I was pretty sad to get out of the nightmare of what my life has been for the past six months to come back to negative feedback, and while it's not the end of the world, seeing the thread about *me* and how cutthroat everyone was really upset me and has made me rethink being in the pin trading community at all. Is there really a need to be so cut-throat over a piece of metal that we cannot be patient when someone is suffering? Is three months TOO LONG for you to wait for something (that isn't a grail) while someone tries to get their life in order?

We've all had it happen, from illness to accidents to the fact that you're overdrafted at the bank and can't fix it until two weeks from tuesday, as magical as Disney is, real life happens, and for most of us we deal these things daily. I also understand that we work hard for our money, I was just out of work for six months and believe me, on top of this one pin issue, I know what it is to be broke. There was a span of time where we couldn't even buy groceries in March because I was not working.

Some people deal with sick better than others, too. When I'm sick, because of my immune system being borked, I don't leave the bed for weeks, and don't much more than sit there and do nothing. Some folks can be sick and manage to get things done, which I envy, so there might be people who can manage to still keep their heads when ill, but I don't know what the ratio of sick people who can think to sick people who cannot think is. There are always exceptions.

This isn't meant to be a pity party, I'm healed and working and I'm okay now, but as someone who has been the "bad trader" I'd like to appeal to you ALL to take a moment to understand and think about what someone else might be going through. There's a mob mentality in the comments of "I didn't get my pin" threads that doesn't suit this community, a community I actually have felt at home in and that I perceive to be caring and loving.

Communicate more, if someone is POOF, gone, after letting you know they're ill, then try to contact them. I'm not saying HOUND people to the point of crazy (okay, if you paid them 100+ dollars you can hound a bit) but email them/PM them once a week, see how they are, see what's going on, and let them KNOW you are having an issue/you haven't received it/etc.

Let's not tear people apart for being caught up in life, because one of these days it will happen to you. Wouldn't you want to be treated well if the shoe was on the other foot?

Once again, not a pity party, just wanting to raise awareness so that we can support each other more and, likewise, weed the bad ones who are actually scamming, out.

Sorry for the long rambling, and this is not directed at Tabbi, it just got me thinking when I read all the "leave negative" advice she was given.

 

[talesoftobv]

 

[disneypinqueen]

Completely understandable. Glad you're feeling better.

 

[TheGrimGrinner]

Some people just like to have drama surround them, and they aren't comfortable with themselves unless they are able to cause others harm, and have others pity them. There is a mob mentality on these forums of "GIVE ME THE NAME FOR MY SECRET LIST" which is annoying and downright childish. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do when dealing with so many people. Different personalities will come out of the woodworks.

Also, if you refunded the money, should it not be listed (at the very worst) "neutral" feedback? She wasn't happy with the exchange, but she ended up getting her money back in the end. I would contact a Mod/Admin to see about getting it changed.

 

[breagirl]

Constance,

Honestly, I didn't even know anything about it...but for what it is worth, here's my .02:

I completely agree that people need to have compassion, but I think communication is key. I saw the feedback and it says there was no communication at all. Having dealt with Tabbi before, I can assure you she probably wrestled with whether or not to even leave negative feedback. She is one of the most honest and kind hearted people in this community. If she truly didn't hear from you for six weeks, well to me, that just isn't acceptable. Don't get me wrong...I am very compassionate and hate that you have been ill, but it seriously takes about 3 minutes just to email someone and let them know what is going on. I honestly probably would have done the same thing (leaving negative) as I would have felt like you had up and taken off with my money or trade and I would want to warn other potential people. It's not about being mean spirited or anything else, it's just no communication doesn't look good.

Also, I'm not sure what thread you are referring to, but did someone mention you by name? If not, I'm sure many people were offering advice based on what they would do without realizing who it was.

All that to say, I'm glad to hear you are feeling better and I hope you won't leave. I'm not trying to tick you or anyone else off, just trying to give you a different perspective

 

[Constance]

Constance,

Honestly, I didn't even know anything about it...but for what it is worth, here's my .02:

I completely agree that people need to have compassion, but I think communication is key. I saw the feedback and it says there was no communication at all. Having dealt with Tabbi before, I can assure you she probably wrestled with whether or not to even leave negative feedback. She is one of the most honest and kind hearted people in this community. If she truly didn't hear from you for six weeks, well to me, that just isn't acceptable. Don't get me wrong...I am very compassionate and hate that you have been ill, but it seriously takes about 3 minutes just to email someone and let them know what is going on. I honestly probably would have done the same thing (leaving negative) as I would have felt like you had up and taken off with my money or trade and I would want to warn other potential people. It's not about being mean spirited or anything else, it's just no communication doesn't look good.

Also, I'm not sure what thread you are referring to, but did someone mention you by name? If not, I'm sure many people were offering advice based on what they would do without realizing who it was.

Sometimes you don't have three minutes. Hospitals don't offer wireless internet (well the one I was in didn't, at least). My last exchange with her was that I'd sent the pins, and as far as I knew there were no other problems. My only indication there was a problem at all was when I came back and had a negative feedback. Husband was handling things, and he had a delay of two weeks from the time we got the package back to the time he refunded her, and while I don't know why (it might honestly had been because we were so broke he couldn't do it until then) or that it got away from him, but it was two weeks, not six. Communication IS the key, and if you do not communicate that something is wrong, I can't possibly fix it.

I was told about the article because people knew it was about me, names didn't need to be mentioned. Also, like I said this is much more about the mob mentality of "OMG negative feedback NOW" and isn't about Tabbi.

 

[hoffman5]

I have recently given a negative feedback. I felt that a trade that was initiated in March, ample time had been given even with the circumstances that occurred. Not every trade is perfect but sometimes you have an obligation to the others on the board to voice your experience. I only left the neg after talking to several others and mods that knew of similar experiences from this trader.

 

[JAllenWood]

Also, I'm not sure what thread you are referring to, but did someone mention you by name? If not, I'm sure many people were offering advice based on what they would do without realizing who it was.

I was thinking the same thing. Which is a problem when asking for advice about whether to leave negative feedback in the first place. No one really knows who the person in question is. That in mind, in the end it's up to the person who left the feedback to decide to actually do it or not, despite the advice given. That's my .02.

 

[unibear]

Patience is sometime a hard thing to give, even to patients (sorry about the pun!!). Seriously, I had a big multi trade start out at Trade City and honestly it's still not over! I've gotten 5-6 and am just waiting on the last 1 (sold instead of held, so she's looking for another...).

I think sometimes these posts are also a way of expressing anxiety about a dear friend (pin) lost. I know I've posted once about a trade to the Netherlands awhile back: she got my pins in about 4-6 days and I got hers in about 2-3 months. For me, I posted my concerns and was just happy to hear from others that they've had this experience with international trades and that in all likelihood my pins would show up later (which they did).

Boy, where was I going with this? I've lost my train of thought. Oh, yeah. Patience isn't easy (I'm still itching for that last pin from the Trade City trade) but it's worth it. I don't mind the kvetching and gnashing of teeth from others worried about their trade. But let's back away from the panic button labeled 'Negative'.

Am I done? I think so...

 

[rubyslipperedgoddess]

I know that I'm probably going to take a bit of a beating for this, but as much as pin traders call themselves a community they also have no problem turning on each other over pins. Now of course this doesn't include everyone, but we've all seen how cutthroat this pin community can be, cutting in line, reselling for 100%+, selling/trading counterfeit and scrappers, offering lopsided trades that benefit you and not the other trader. All of this is common in pin trading, not the exception. I just think that calling a person your friend is a very serious thing and the word gets thrown around here a lot, while at the same time people are talking about you behind your back. So Constance I understand your forgiveness towards Tabby, although as it was pointed out it was ultimately your friend's decision to leave negative feedback. I also understand being angry that others would give her advice that negatively affected her. Life does get in the way, and while I've never gone more than 2-3 weeks due to personal problems sending or receiving a pin, I understand that life is bigger than pins and I always give the other person the benefit of the doubt. I would never leave negative feedback if a legitimate explanation was given. It seems like some pin traders live a blessed life and the worst thing that ever happens to them is their pins getting lost in the mail. I only wish I were that blessed, I'm sure you do as well.

 

[Constance]

I know that I'm probably going to take a bit of a beating for this, but as much as pin traders call themselves a community they also have no problem turning on each other over pins. Now of course this doesn't include everyone, but we've all seen how cutthroat this pin community can be, cutting in line, reselling for 100%+, selling/trading counterfeit and scrappers, offering lopsided trades that benefit you and not the other trader. All of this is common in pin trading, not the exception. I just think that calling a person your friend is a very serious thing and the word gets thrown around here a lot, while at the same time people are talking about you behind your back. So Constance I understand your forgiveness towards Tabby, although as it was pointed out it was ultimately your friend's decision to leave negative feedback. I also understand being angry that others would give her advice that negatively affected her. Life does get in the way, and while I've never gone more than 2-3 weeks due to personal problems sending or receiving a pin, I understand that life is bigger than pins and I always give the other person the benefit of the doubt. I would never leave negative feedback if a legitimate explanation was given. It seems like some pin traders live a blessed life and the worst thing that ever happens to them is their pins getting lost in the mail. I only wish I were that blessed, I'm sure you do as well.

I could not think of a truer statement than this, and I REALLY echo the last point you make- I wish that the worst thing that ever happened to me is my pins not getting here.

Everyone's replies are pretty positive, too, I was worried I would get flack for this but I really just feel it in my heart, we should both be more understanding and forgiving and at the same time say no to drama and actual thieves and what have you.

 

[RaChEltheRabidRabbit]

Hi Constance,

I have not spoke to you before but I just wanted you to know that I am sorry to hear that you were so sick and that you have been diagnosed with MS. Quite a few members on here were very worried about your disappearance and even thought of the possibility that you or your husband had pass and so we did not think badly of you not getting the pins out.

I hope you get the feedback problem all sorted out and that your health gets better soon.

 

[flaneur]

I think that (whether it be DPF or eBay), if somebody seeks advice on whether to leave negative feedback, there wasn't enough communication for that transaction. After a few weeks I would be asking questions. A few months (like you mentioned) is too long to be in limbo. Sorry to hear about your illness, but glad you are back.

 

[Cicada]

Hi Constance; Glad to hear things are better now; we were wondering where you'd gone

If you'd like to make an appeal or at least further clarify the situation for us to review, you can PM Myself, Bricklayer and Thejessta.

 

[scottydem]

Glad you're back! I think you know what I'd say about this subject, and I totally agree you did not deserve the negative feedback. Some people in this world are just trolling for attention. Just be the bigger person in the situation and it will all be fine. Like you said, it's not the end of the world and what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger (or maybe... wiser in this case).

 

[erudolf]

These are just my thoughts on the matter because I don't think it is that simple. Every situation is different and I don't know the exact facts about what went on with this situation and I don't need to know. It sounds like there may have been some confusion about what was or wasn't communicated, so my views are in no way in relation to this case in particular.

It would be wonderful if we could all be compationate and understanding all the time, but the problem is....how do you sort out the liars? If you are dealing with someone you don't know personally, how do you know they are telling you the truth? Please keep in mind, I am in NO WAY saying anyone in this case is lying...I do believe that there are some very extreme circumstances going on here. But, if people will trample over each other for a pin then you know that there are people that will have no problem making up excuses and lying to people they don't even know just to remove fault from themselves. So, for the sake of being compationate, do you just blindly believe everything someone tells you? Even if you don't know them at all?

People have excuses all the time. Some are true, but I highly doubt all are true. Just for an example, there was one particularly bad month I had a while back. I had done three trades over Pinpics and all three had issues. They were as follows:

Scenario 1) The pin did not arrive in a timely manner and when I checked the postage dates and the delivery confirmation on the pin I sent I could see that they didn't send their pin until after receiving mine. Strike one. You cannot hold pins hostage without informing the other person of your intent to do so or at least communicating the delay. And to boot, the post on the pin was broken. When I voiced my concern to the person they basicly told me "too bad, your problem not mine". They also explained away the delay by saying that there were two deaths and a snow storm. Ok....maybe that is true, but no communication to that fact? And the broken pin was their responsibility, but they refused to do anything about it.

Scenario 2) Two weeks or so had passed and no pin. The pin I had sent was delivered and the person was not answering emails. Finally the person responded and said that the reason the pin hadn't been sent was because they were hit by a car and in the hospital with a brain hemmorage. Ok....maybe that's true.....

Scenario 3) Again, two weeks or so had passed and my pin had been delivered so I started sending emails. I sent maybe three emails over the next one to two weeks and got no response. I finally opened a dispute and notified Pinpics of the issue. They contacted the trader and the same day the trader responded saying that they were just sooooo swamped at work that they just couldn't find a single minute to spare to send the pins or communicate. Ok....so....they couldn't find a minute to reply to my emails but as soon as Pinpics got involved their time magically freed up??? Maybe....


Now, any one of those stories could be true. But can they ALL be true??? In one month I managed to trade with three people who all had extreme circumstances? Possible....but not probable. I'm not nieve enough to believe that every single excuse I have been given over the years was true.

So the problem is, when you don't personally know the trader, how do you decide when to be compassionate and when to take action and warn others? It is because of this that I tend to keep things factual and I don't want a bazillion excuses. I am much more understanding of someone that says, "I'm so sorry, totally my fault, I completely forgot" than someone to tells me a long story. The story may be true, but how do I know if I don't know you?

If I arrange a trade with you and the pin hasn't arrived within two weeks and I receive no communication from you, I'm sending an email. If you don't respond in three days, I'm sending another email. If you don't respond in another three days, I'm sending you another email saying that I'm going to report the issue in three days if you don't respond. And if there is still not response after that, I report. Plain and simple. That's just over three weeks I have given you a chance to communicate with me. Over 500 hours.....over 30,240 minutes.....the circumstances would have to be very extreme for you not to be able to take 5 of those 30,240 and send me an email to let me know what is going on. Yes, extreme circumstances do happen....but everyone else can't be compationate to that if they don't even know what is going on.

So, that's just the way I do it so that I can be fair and impartial to everyone I deal with. In the grand scheme of things, unless your world completely fell apart in the 48 hours after you confirmed the trade then there really should be some communication going on. If you already know that you have a bad situation and things are dicey, it probably isn't a good idea to make promises and agreements that you may not be able to keep.

 

[scottydem]

Sorry but if someone you know or yourself is very sick, pins can wait whether you are the sender or receiver. That's my opinion at least.

 

[erudolf]

Sorry but if someone you know or yourself is very sick, pins can wait whether you are the sender or receiver. That's my opinion at least.

Thats the thing...someone you KNOW. I don't know about everyone else, but most of the people I trade with are complete strangers. Of the active DPF members, I think there are only three I have met in person.

It sucks to say it, but I don't completely trust someone just because someone is a member here and posts. We have seen issues here too, whether it be the fault of one or both parties, things have gone wrong and in some cases people were legitimately at fault. There have also been instances of people being caught in lies when posting.....so..... :dunno: when it really comes down to it, I don't really "know" most people here. But, even though I don't "know" everyone there are some people that I do trust based on previous experiences and community behaviors and then there are some that I don't trust. I think knowing when to trust someone is a personal decision that everyone needs to make for themselves.

When you don't really "know" the person I personally think it is best to got with the facts (dates and communications) and leave the objective pieces out.