Did you ever have a trader just make you want to scream?!?

OK, a little back story. First, most of you know me as a laid back individual, not really one to get stressed, usually the voice of reason.

When the Star Wars May the 4th and Revenge of the 5th pins were announced, I sent out some trade requests before getting the chance to purchase a set at cost. A couple of days ago (after I already purchased it mind you) someone replied, apologized for the delay and asked if I was still interested. I said sure, figuring I could use them as traders, or maybe help someone else out, like stoomey did for me, so I asked what they had in mind. I originally offered them a wide selection of pins, from WDI to DSF to D23 pins, all LE250-500s, and they came back wanting BOTH the Mulan Marquee AND the DSF Merida on Angus (neither one was offered by me originally). I pointed out I could do 1 of those for the 2 pins, since I had to trade up/paid premiums for them, and I pointed out based on all the pins current values, 1 of those specific DSF pins in question is roughly equal to both Star Wars pins. They told me

Ok. I trade by price, and those were the closest to the price of my pins. Sorry for the confusion. R u able to trade by price?

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and I pointed out

I look at all factors when making a trade, including original cost, and LE (if applicable). Unfortunately, being on the East Coast in Maryland, I am dependent on others to get me pins from places like WDI, DSF, etc, so what might be a $14.95 pin at DSF might have cost me $25-$30 pin for someone to get me, taking into account things like their time, shipping it to me, etc, plus in this case, we are comparing a 1500 LE pin to 250-300 LEs

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and we went back and forth trying to work something out

Ok, we'll I can't trade 2 for 1. Then I would be out money. Do all ur pins have an added amount of money to their "cost" then? I only asked for those two because u said u accepted counter offers.

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I replied:

You happened to have picked 2 that also skyrocketed in value due to their collectors' appeal, so even if I paid retail, the SW pins are going around $25-$30 each right now, and the 2 you picked are $50-$60 pins currently.

I do not trade solely on dollar for dollar as a pin might cost more since that would require me to have better access to more pins at cost, i.e. live next to a park, etc. Also, to me, an LE status also needs to be taken into account as well as are these open to anyone, are they D23, DSF, WDI, etc. The ones I offered originally are a couple of dollars less expensive, true, but they have an LE that is 1/5 those of the Star Wars pins (1500 vs 250/300)

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Now their reply really got under my skin:

Well, I live one exit away from dlr and have dsf, wdi, d23, and cast pins available for purchase or trade at list price, so I could not trade for these at a higher price even if the le was higher. After all, le doesn't pay the mortgage lol.
I also believe it isn't fair for u to have to purchase ur pins at the inflated price. I would make some better pin pals. My pin pals and I trade by list price. Fair for all. Happy trading, and I hope u get what ur looking for

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and at that point, I think my emotions got the better of me:

With respect, I do have some friends who offer to pick me up pins at cost. I just do not abuse that luxury, in fact saving it for the truly wanted pins. You say I should make better pin pals, but I do not see you offering to help someone out either. By your logic, if you had a BT Tangled or Enchanted pin, you would trade it for a $14 pin?!?

You are correct, LE does not pay the mortgage, and had you asked, I might have been willing to do a 3 for 2 trade depending on the pins involved, but I think I will try other trades

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Now normally I do not let things like that bother me, but I should make better pin pals?!? Where does anyone get off saying that without knowing anything about me or the people I associate with.

Wow I totally know that feeling I wanted an le1000 pin and somebody wanted three of my ironman pins including the marquee. The pin I wanted probably goes for $100 and the pins I would traded it for would be way over that price. I thought oh well better luck next time. There is another person on here I won't mention names but there trading sucks. Hopefully you get them.

I offered an LE 500 for the may 4th stitch one but got a no. Really wanted that stitch as it has the slogan people use on my birthday on it I had a couple people try and get me one on release day but they were unable.

your title.. YES i want to scream regularly, in email and in person.

as to the bulk of the email... you two were never going to agree to a trade, your both value your pins to differently from eachother. lol

Well were pinpals and I like you lots and I think your a fair trader, and to me it sounded like they were not fair at all, I don't know anyone who goes off original price, especially dsf, wdi, DS pins they have such high demand and value. Just ignore them. I bet you have lots of pinpals! We heart u

I could practically guarantee that this person would not trade a highly desired BT (BatB, LM) or marquee (Up, Wall-E) at original cost. So glad you were only looking to get these to trade.

Jrdnsmom said:

I don't know anyone who goes off original price

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I want to speak to this, and this may not apply in Bill's situation. But on the rare occasions that I do pickups (or even in other trading) I do primarily go off original price or "how much did this cost me?" But there are a few considerations. Does the other person have easy access to their pins or are they getting them through secondary sources? Is there an extreme difference in valuation, or near future valuation (ie. I wouldn't expect someone to trade a forever $100+ pin for something that will probably never be more than $25)? How friendly am I or expect to be with the person in question. Do I believe the pins are heading for someone's collection or are going to be "flipped."

Retail is just the easiest measure, and I don't want to get bogged down in my pins are going for $18, $22, $15 and yours are $17, $29, $10 or whatever, so does the math even out. It's just easier to say, "I've got 3 pins I paid $13 for and you've got 3 pins you paid $13. Let's call that good." Or since what primarily happens is new releases for old releases, I'd rather say, "Okay, my new releases aren't worth as much as your old pins or pins from a different source. TODAY. However, we both know that the pin you are asking for will sell out within a day or so of release, which is why you're asking me to pick it up, and in about 3 months or whatever, they will be close in value, because they are similar characters, similar edition size, released for the same holiday etc. I'm doing you a favor by making sure you get these upon release, and you don't have to search or deal with Ebay, so why don't you do me a favor and not need to squeeze every last cent out of the value of the pin.

Again, this does not apply for the pins that we know will always have extreme variations in price. So no BTs for random park LE.

Basically, not be so nitpicky, more casual, less 100% business. And sort of "game theory" for pins in which if traders work cooperatively on more occasions, then everyone will progress further with their collections in the long term, than by making every single move on pure self-interest (which may include a lot of losses while waiting for that one win). So to examine, for a moment, Bill's scenarios. In scenario 1, he found someone who could help at cost, which was against his partner's best interests (sold auctions are at $80 for the pair, but there is one currently over $100, so more than retail). His partner "sacrificed" so Bill could "win." In scenario 2, Bill refused to "sacrifice" and so both "lost." Note: this is not a judgement on if the trade offered to Bill was fair or not, just that acquiring a pin is a "win" not acquiring is a "loss," if you are on the "less value" side, then that's a "sacrifice." A year, or two from now, we could re-evaluate and conceivably find out that at that time the trade would be "fair" from a secondary market perspective. Curiosity, has me wondering if Bill's "at cost" partner will at some point end up sacrificing more, in terms of value, than Bill was asked to with the trade based on today's prices...

So anyway, my strategy is more, "Let's both save ourselves from riding market waves, just get the pins we want and be done with it." However, I know a lot of people don't view things the same way I do, so they hold on to their pins. And I wait until the market landscape changes. More often than not, the prices fall to where I get the pins I want at the price I expected in the first place, and the other person may or may not have gotten their pins in the meantime.

I must had la similar expeierence and like you i live in the middle of nowhere close to a park or dsf after i told the person politely no two times they continue to send me request saying is there nothing i have you would trade for that pin now keep in mind they have all of 50 traders and they want one of my jessica as pins when i suggested trading a tangled pin i was told their pin is worth more geez i didnt ask them for the trade and yet they continue even after saying i am not ready to part with that pin

I always ask people to give me an offer when they ask for a trade just to see if they are fair traders or not. If the offer is lower I just decline and tell them good luck with mo further offers accepted. This has happened more recently with the over priced DSF pins being hyped up. I learned that on DSF pins before the releases prices are high but then they drastically plummet over time (unless its tangled or up).

I've been on both sides of this dance. More on the low side as a newbie. But, still both sides.

But I've discovered people who are more about the trading and collecting (and helping others) than they are about screwing other people, or coming out $2 ahead.

Part of the issue is that some people feel like they just have to profit on everything. And part of the issue is that people have an emotional attachment to their pins and that CLOUDS rational thought about trading. This happens a lot in collecting and people tend to over-value what they have. Doubt that? Watch American Pickers or Pawn Stars and you'll quickly see it.

That's one of the reasons I don't mind buying pins. Its an easy and quick way to work out a deal. Or, if on ebay, determine the current "going rate" for a pin. Hard to argue that a pin is going for a certain amount or certain price range if you can see complete auctions.

Trading can be fun but I hear and see so many stories of problems between folks. That's a shame.

Really, I like pinpics less and less. I went looking for one of the iron man pins and clicked pretty much any and all the pins I'd be willing to trade for it, including some of my more expensive pins, and one of the persons came back telling me that it was worth way more than any of those pins combined when I know at least two of the pins I offered go for 50+ on ebay. In the end, I found it for 30 on ebay (a steal )

It's sad. So far I've met some of the sweetest people pin trading and some of the worst. I think while yes, the pins can be worth a lot of money, it's still only pins and we collect them because they're fun.

this thread is exhausting. Bill i would have not even bothered with all the pain of typing (cuts into my drinking) after the asshole response from them and the bla bl abla explaination. I wish i had those star wars pins to just send you. Living far from the parks is doo doo

Janice PM me darn it

Charles YOU LOVE TRADDING WITH ME!

hopmax, ya lost me after the first paragrph, someplace around senerio.:|

love you guys....dont let stink heads make ya crazy, that what kids are for.:salute: