DLR - Scrapper crack down

Scrappers are a huge problem. I agree that it is up to Disney to take control of the situation directly with the factories and the distributors.

The Disney theme parks are a place for families to go on vacation over and over again. The Disney company wants to make sure that these families have a great time and continue to visit the parks. It is not in their best interest to give these families a hard time about scrapper trading pins. The bottom line is making money. Families pay for theme park tickets, resorts, transportation, food, merchandise, souvenirs, and other activities. Disney will not risk all of this profit for some fakes and scrappers of pins when there is so much more money to be gained by just looking the other way.

Now the baggies with the pins in their own individual plastic pouches, those are fake. The real ones come as a set in rolled up plastic. Not individually like the scrappers.

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Except not always.

I buy those little jewelry baggies at Jo-Ann, and when I decide to sell my pins, I usually put each pin in a little baggie, and then wrap it in bubble wrap before sending them out. If someone bought a bunch of pins from me, it would be completely likely that they might keep them in the little baggies before trading them. Just be careful when you make broad statements like that...

True, the grade of baggies is usually different- the stuff from Jo-Ann's is a thicker grade plastic. But, really...no one is going to get up in a stranger's face and ask to see their pin baggies and such.

I agree with Trade Winds Pins- dealing with scrappers at the parks is a PR nightmare. Even if you pulled aside people you suspected to be serial offenders, how would you PROVE that they're doing it knowingly, instead of just getting taken for a ride on eBay? I mean, when looking at certain "Guests", you know it, I know it, even Disney knows it...and you might be able to prove that this pin is a scrapper, and so is this one...but overall, can you stop them? It would maybe scare one or two of them straight by having a stern talking-to, but the slimy ones will pop back up again.

If Disney was *serious* about stopping scrappers, they would do it at the source. And that's a tall order (there's a reason Gucci and other companies have never been able to stop the flow of counterfeits).

I'm not saying they shouldn't try- I'm just saying I'm not sure how realistic it is.

How about this just stop trading with cast members! If you dont want scrappers then dont trade for them. I stopped trading with CMs years ago but thats just me....

pincrazy1 said:

How about this just stop trading with cast members! If you dont want scrappers then dont trade for them. I stopped trading with CMs years ago but thats just me....

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No, not just you. I'm lucky that I'm not interested in Hidden Mickeys at all. Occasionally, I'll trade with CMs just for fun (especially if I see one of the Duffy Booster pins on their lanyards). But because the lanyard pins don't interest me, I'm lucky that I dodge a lot of the scrapper crap.

It's just an interesting puzzle to try and solve/talk about (Disney's problem with them, that is).

The way I see it, those more likely to care about whether a pin is a scrapper are also those more likely to be savvy enough to tell the difference. Most others who are not as into pins probably don't really care. So you're left with MOSTLY people who don't care receiving the scrappers. Sure we all occasionally accidentally trade for scrappers, but most scrappers are HM's, so the worst that happens is you lost a few of your authentic HM's. I would never trade anything valuable for a known scrapped pin unless I was sure of its authenticity beforehand. It'd be nice to completely rid the world of scrappers, but frankly, I see them as a cheap alternative for less serious traders. Maybe an unpopular opinion.

spartan117 said:

Its horrible they never refresh at dlr.

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Actually, they do. :\

MedicChris said:

I traded a few pins off the CM lanyards and went into city hall and made a complaint of the scrappers. I am just going to keep doing that until disney does something about it.

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I just hope the "something" they do isn't getting rid of CM pin trading.

I've been to DLR a lot and they don't seem to refresh since Timm is gone.

<<< I miss Timmmmmmm.
Little known fact about Timm he started out as a park sweeper and worked his way to the top.

There are some pins that we can spot and tell, however it will come down to who is trying to trade it. If a kid gets it, that he probably picked off of a pin board the same day, and then trades it to me, I will still make that trade. Some people don't care if it's fake or not, they just want to collect stitch pins and they are happy to get a new one. If someone comes up with a book of fake pins I might turn them down or make it more difficult. Sometimes I "get a call" and can't trade if I see a shark on me. I also would never turn down a mom with kids that they went and bought a bunch of pins off eBay, they spent the money and didn't know. I can't punish them for that.

Please realize most of us have jobs to do, and this is something extra we do on the side. I try and make the trades, but I don't have time to inspect pins. On busy times I will remove my lanyard all together. Or sometimes I never wear it and only put it on when I see kids because people seem to think Disney has hired people just to pin trade.

DoomScarf said:

Who exactly is Timm?

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try doing a search on PPs just for TIMM and ull come up with all the pins he designed and how his pins are some of the hottest out there. He was also the head of DLR Pin Trading for a few years before he was told to retire.

Abyssinian28 said:

Except not always.

I buy those little jewelry baggies at Jo-Ann, and when I decide to sell my pins, I usually put each pin in a little baggie, and then wrap it in bubble wrap before sending them out. If someone bought a bunch of pins from me, it would be completely likely that they might keep them in the little baggies before trading them. Just be careful when you make broad statements like that...

True, the grade of baggies is usually different- the stuff from Jo-Ann's is a thicker grade plastic. But, really...no one is going to get up in a stranger's face and ask to see their pin baggies and such.

I agree with Trade Winds Pins- dealing with scrappers at the parks is a PR nightmare. Even if you pulled aside people you suspected to be serial offenders, how would you PROVE that they're doing it knowingly, instead of just getting taken for a ride on eBay? I mean, when looking at certain "Guests", you know it, I know it, even Disney knows it...and you might be able to prove that this pin is a scrapper, and so is this one...but overall, can you stop them? It would maybe scare one or two of them straight by having a stern talking-to, but the slimy ones will pop back up again.

If Disney was *serious* about stopping scrappers, they would do it at the source. And that's a tall order (there's a reason Gucci and other companies have never been able to stop the flow of counterfeits).

I'm not saying they shouldn't try- I'm just saying I'm not sure how realistic it is.

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Totally agree that it is a PR nightmare. How horrible would it be for a cm to tell a dad with two little one's that they can't trade the pins they just bought off e-bay unknowingly. This would truly ruin the "show." I just don't see this happening. I also agree that if Disney really wanted to do something about it they should go to the source. I just don't trade with cm's that often. I also ask to look at the pin before I trade.

I also would never turn down a mom with kids that they went and bought a bunch of pins off eBay, they spent the money and didn't know. I can't punish them for that.

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This is going to sound a little contradictory to what I said earlier about not wanting to cause a PR scene (which is still my opinion, overall, and I agree with you about that), but...

I honestly don't feel that sorry for the parents or other people who buy those specific lots off eBay. I mean, come on! You're buying from CHINA, land of counterfeits! Why do you THINK you're getting such a "great deal"? A good deal is 30/50% off. When you're getting pins for 80% off or more, you're either standing in a SALSA sale with a cast member, or you're buying fakes.

Once you see where the pins are coming from, you should be able to put two and two together. So, IMO, at least *some* of the responsibility should fall on the buyer.

I'd actually be curious as to what the answers would be if we were to survey the people who bought these lots- "How do you think it's possible for you to get such an amazing deal?". Because I don't know about you guys, but when I see a deal on THIS level, i start asking questions about WHY and HOW they're able to afford this type of deep discount.

I'd be curious as to what the answers to such a survey would be...

Abyssinian28 said:

This is going to sound a little contradictory to what I said earlier about not wanting to cause a PR scene (which is still my opinion, overall, and I agree with you about that), but...

I honestly don't feel that sorry for the parents or other people who buy those specific lots off eBay. I mean, come on! You're buying from CHINA, land of counterfeits! Why do you THINK you're getting such a "great deal"? A good deal is 30/50% off. When you're getting pins for 80% off or more, you're either standing in a SALSA sale with a cast member, or you're buying fakes.

Once you see where the pins are coming from, you should be able to put two and two together. So, IMO, at least *some* of the responsibility should fall on the buyer.

I'd actually be curious as to what the answers would be if we were to survey the people who bought these lots- "How do you think it's possible for you to get such an amazing deal?". Because I don't know about you guys, but when I see a deal on THIS level, i start asking questions about WHY and HOW they're able to afford this type of deep discount.

I'd be curious as to what the answers to such a survey would be...

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I agree. Even if someone doesn't know what they are doing and buys bad pins off ebay and tries to trade them in the park, turning a blind eye and never letting them know doesn't help anything. If they get educated on how to tell good pins from bad and to avoid ebay's scrappers, they may take it to heart or they might not. If they find that they aren't able to trade the pins they are buying for $0.50 each maybe more of an impression will be made. Certainly it would be a disappointment and non-magical first experience, but then they have the choice to keep taking their chances on cheap pins or to change their ways.

I think a large poster of how to identify a scrapper in the pin-centric stores would be a good first step. That way you have at least addressed it and CM's can point people to the poster to educate themselve if they want. Have super close ups, tell tale signs, side-by-side comparisons.

I started collecting in April and didn't know about scrappers. But I found out after a few trips to DLR with my baggie. It's a shame. I also feel very frustrated when sharks take all the good pins I want and there aren't many left over unless they are scrapper versions. I have a few scrappers in my collecting just to complete the sets. If I find the real one I will just swap it out.

I can say that I was trading with a CM out of the books at the 'Ho at DLR and the CM took my pin after I placed it in the book. I asked if there was an issue and she said well I have had a LOT of fake pins come through today and I just have to make sure they aren't fake when I trade. I said well then I think you should probably take a peek at the others that are on THIS PAGE alone in your book because nearly ALL of your pins are fake. She continued to check out my pin and then placed it into her book.

So, yes, it IS happening... HOWEVER, ALL CM's MUST be educated about the fakes vs real pins before they are able to say either way... :/

This all sounds good, but to train cast members to identify scrappers is ludicrous. First, they are way too busy doing their jobs to take the time to inspect each pin they are offered in a trade and police the scrapper situation. There are thousands of pins, and each pin can have variations that don't mean it's a scrapper. Even well seasoned pin collectors can't always tell if a pin is a scrapper/counterfeit, so to expect a cast member to be able to inspect a pin thoroughly, have all of the back ground knowledge needed to make an informed decision, all while doing their job is too time consuming. The fact of the matter is, you can never be sure a pin is a scrapper/counterfeit unless you purchased it yourself-the end. So, if this is the case, where would you draw the line on their policing the situation? I still think your best bet is to not trade with cm's if you don't want scrappers/counterfeits in your collection. Cast member's trade pins to offer Disney magic and to provide positive guest experiences. It's a way for cm's to interract with guests in a positive way. Once you have them policing, the magic is gone and there is no net gain.

As far as purchasing pins off e-bay and people being unsuspecting when prices are so low, you have to remember that a lot of these people have never pin traded before and think they are just getting an amazing deal. They are spending a ton on their Disney vacation and have heard about pin trading and think it will be fun for their kids. They don't get what the problem is. Scrappers don't always get mailed from China either. My SIL, before she new better, ordered a pin lot and it came from an address in the good 'ole USA. She is also a very intelligent woman who thought she was getting a great deal on pins to trade at the parks. She had no idea of the scrapper/counterfeit problem. It never would have crossed her mind. She is not a die hard collector, so she doesn't care what pins she gets in return when she trades with a cm as long as they are of the characters she likes.

We are all coming from a perspective of people who care deeply about their pins and have invested a good bit of time and money in our collections. Scrappers and counterfeits are a huge frustration for us. We are collectors 365 days of the year, not just for one annual Disney trip.

I won't take Disney seriously about counterfeits and scrappers, until they start putting information about them on the official Disney pin trading website, update the rules of pin trading to include info about them, outline what measures they are taking to combat them, actually talk about them during pin trading events and so on. Officially, Disney doesn't seem to even acknowledge they exist. If you corner someone, they might say "we know about them, and we're working on it," but it never looks like they are actually doing anything.

Any sort of haphazard checking by individual CM's is going to be fraught with problems and inconsistencies.

katpogo said:

This all sounds good, but to train cast members to identify scrappers is ludicrous. First, they are way too busy doing their jobs to take the time to inspect each pin they are offered in a trade and police the scrapper situation. There are thousands of pins, and each pin can have variations that don't mean it's a scrapper. Even well seasoned pin collectors can't always tell if a pin is a scrapper/counterfeit, so to expect a cast member to be able to inspect a pin thoroughly, have all of the back ground knowledge needed to make an informed decision, all while doing their job is too time consuming. The fact of the matter is, you can never be sure a pin is a scrapper/counterfeit unless you purchased it yourself-the end. So, if this is the case, where would you draw the line on their policing the situation? I still think your best bet is to not trade with cm's if you don't want scrappers/counterfeits in your collection. Cast member's trade pins to offer Disney magic and to provide positive guest experiences. It's a way for cm's to interract with guests in a positive way. Once you have them policing, the magic is gone and there is no net gain.

As far as purchasing pins off e-bay and people being unsuspecting when prices are so low, you have to remember that a lot of these people have never pin traded before and think they are just getting an amazing deal. They are spending a ton on their Disney vacation and have heard about pin trading and think it will be fun for their kids. They don't get what the problem is. Scrappers don't always get mailed from China either. My SIL, before she new better, ordered a pin lot and it came from an address in the good 'ole USA. She is also a very intelligent woman who thought she was getting a great deal on pins to trade at the parks. She had no idea of the scrapper/counterfeit problem. It never would have crossed her mind. She is not a die hard collector, so she doesn't care what pins she gets in return when she trades with a cm as long as they are of the characters she likes.

We are all coming from a perspective of people who care deeply about their pins and have invested a good bit of time and money in our collections. Scrappers and counterfeits are a huge frustration for us. We are collectors 365 days of the year, not just for one annual Disney trip.

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+1

markheardjr said:

I think a large poster of how to identify a scrapper in the pin-centric stores would be a good first step. That way you have at least addressed it and CM's can point people to the poster to educate themselve if they want. Have super close ups, tell tale signs, side-by-side comparisons.

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See, the problem is...Disney's never going to draw attention to a *negative*- even if the negative is impacting them, rather than caused by them.

It's the same with most companies...shoplifting can be a big problem, but they don't want to talk to *customers* about it. They might put up small signs in the dressing room, but usually, that's it. The more you talk about negative things to customers, the more uncomfortable they get, and less likely they are to spend money.

If they were going to do something like that, it would probably be smarter to write an article and put it on odpt.com then in a poster in the pin stores. They could pass out flyers/cards with the URL so people could get the info, but not have the big, negative sign in the middle of the store.

As far as purchasing pins off e-bay and people being unsuspecting when prices are so low, you have to remember that a lot of these people have never pin traded before and think they are just getting an amazing deal.

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Well, my comments are more about getting these kinds of deals in general. I mean, at some point, you have to go...okay, it's REALLY cheap...what's going on? In stores (like Macy's or whatever), you know it's clearance. When you're at a Flea Market, it's either cheaply made, or a knock-off (the Yu-Gi-Oh cards in the "dollar stores" at Flea markets are always good for a laugh).

Could a collector be getting rid of their collection for cheap? Sure! But that's far less likely scenario than hundreds of eBay sales would suggest, all with the same photos...that alone makes me go, "Whoa...what are they doing, mass producing these?" Which, obviously, yes...they are.

It just makes me think that people are buying without THINKING, and while I don't agree with the sellers getting off scot-free, I think people should know better...especially when buying online. As I've said before, China counterfeiting things is not new, nor exclusive to pin trading.

I know US sellers sell them for profit, too- it's just easier to eliminate the ones from China first. The US sellers are trickier to weed out- scrappers vs. collection being purged? I would be checking their selling history up and down...

I don't have to be educated in Pin Trading 101 to be a thoughtful buyer and careful with my money. That might sound harsh, but it's something consumers need to consider. Counterfeiters are at fault, and Disney isn't doing enough...but why aren't the buyers SEEING it? Why do we have to say to them, "Hey, something's up"?

I get being taken by a single pin...but not by lot after lot after lot...those pins are coming from somewhere, people.

katpogo said:

This all sounds good, but to train cast members to identify scrappers is ludicrous. First, they are way too busy doing their jobs to take the time to inspect each pin they are offered in a trade and police the scrapper situation. There are thousands of pins, and each pin can have variations that don't mean it's a scrapper. Even well seasoned pin collectors can't always tell if a pin is a scrapper/counterfeit, so to expect a cast member to be able to inspect a pin thoroughly, have all of the back ground knowledge needed to make an informed decision, all while doing their job is too time consuming. The fact of the matter is, you can never be sure a pin is a scrapper/counterfeit unless you purchased it yourself-the end. So, if this is the case, where would you draw the line on their policing the situation? I still think your best bet is to not trade with cm's if you don't want scrappers/counterfeits in your collection. Cast member's trade pins to offer Disney magic and to provide positive guest experiences. It's a way for cm's to interract with guests in a positive way. Once you have them policing, the magic is gone and there is no net gain.

As far as purchasing pins off e-bay and people being unsuspecting when prices are so low, you have to remember that a lot of these people have never pin traded before and think they are just getting an amazing deal. They are spending a ton on their Disney vacation and have heard about pin trading and think it will be fun for their kids. They don't get what the problem is. Scrappers don't always get mailed from China either. My SIL, before she new better, ordered a pin lot and it came from an address in the good 'ole USA. She is also a very intelligent woman who thought she was getting a great deal on pins to trade at the parks. She had no idea of the scrapper/counterfeit problem. It never would have crossed her mind. She is not a die hard collector, so she doesn't care what pins she gets in return when she trades with a cm as long as they are of the characters she likes.

We are all coming from a perspective of people who care deeply about their pins and have invested a good bit of time and money in our collections. Scrappers and counterfeits are a huge frustration for us. We are collectors 365 days of the year, not just for one annual Disney trip.

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I agree with all of this, as well as what Abyssinian said about the negativity of a poster or advertising of the issue by Disney. If it's going to be stopped, it's at the supply end. That's difficult to do when the AUTHENTIC pins are made in China. Disney has no incentive to change anything.

See, the problem is...Disney's never going to draw attention to a *negative*- even if the negative is impacting them, rather than caused by them.

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That's for sure. I mean, look at the two who were arrested (Allred and what's-his-name, my mind is blanking). Not only has Disney not said anything (or if they have, it's under the radar, I've never seen anything directly from Disney), they don't even seem to care, since one of them was at a PTN a few of them ago, and when it was apparently pointed out to some CM(s), NOTHING was done about it. And these were people who weren't *rumored* to have been selling large volumes of scrappers, they were ARRESTED for it and the cases are still pending!

Oh, and btw, CM pin lanyards ARE refreshed at DLR.