Pin Database alternative? What do you think?

markheardjr said:

It's odd you say Pinpics owns the images. When I tried to submit my app to the Apple apps store, they said Disney owned the artwork of the pin and therefore the image of the pin, no matter who took it, was copyrighted by Disney. But I do know Pinpics is taking off who sumitted the photo to try to say it is there's. If they did leave who took the photo then that person could simply say ok and we could go.

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PinPics doesn't _OWN_ the images, but you grant them full copyright to do what they want with them by uploading them. The original photographer still retains the same copyright and he/she can also grant copyright use to anyone else. Having the original img from your camera (which will be much larger than what PP has), and especially the actual pin photographed, would be more than enough to prove the image is yours. Most of the images they have of my pins I Emailed to them. As such, I still have the original 'sent' Email to prove it, and since it was Emailed it probably doesn't apply to their 'terms of service', since I wasn't logged in when I Emailed them (and, in fact, I don't even need an account to Email them pics). And they don't send you copy of the TOS when you Email stuff to them...

Copyright for any for-profit purpose is very tricky. If I take the picture, I own the copyright to that _picture_. But, of course, I don't own the copyright of what was photographed. _Both_ the photographer and the copyright owner of what was photographed would have to clear the sale of that photograph in any capacity to be legal (thus Apple not allowing you have your own photographs of copyrighted material.)

I would think, if Disney wanted to, they could go after PinPics and make them take down photographs of all Disney copyrighted content, especially since in order to view certain images of the copyrighted content you have to pay them money. Or maybe they have cleared it with Disney, who knows...

markheardjr said:

I think if you can get the basic info, we could come up with a new system if we wanted, but referencing Pinpics numbers is fine. We can have our own arbitrary list of numbers if we want and just reference theirs. So our pin #1 might be a hidden mickey and that references to pin pinpics 88888 or whatever. Oil filter companies and air filter companies do that all the time and then places like Autozone make a decoder book. The one part number is the same as another but with a different prefix. So our's could even be w88888 for "wiki-88888" and there's is 88888 and it's still fine.

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As I mentioned before, why? All I care about is the pin, if I'm trading on the new site, people can reference the pin on that site. There is absolutely no need to provide cross-reference to another site. Unless the creator of this new site really wants to hire a lawyer to go over all of this, I still recommend making no reference to PinPics at all, regardless of whether it's legal or not... Why even cause the problem?

markheardjr said:

I think groups would be easiest to just to hashtags. Then you can search for #carsland or #parisPTN or whatever the groups are. You can have a page for all the groups listed. You could search your collection, trades, wants similarly with #markheardjrO, #markheardjrW, #markheardjrT. For Owns, Wants, Trades. Then just search "#markheardjrO" and all my owns will show up. Only problem with Wiki's is if you let everyone edit them everyone can screw them up. But cached pages could be refreshed.

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No, groups need to be groups. People have groups of 'pins I think are cool', '10 pins I need to get for my mom', etc, etc... That's the real appeal of groups, having custom lists of pins for all sorts of purposes.

We could do the hashtag thing for universal groups (like all Wreck-it-Ralph, etc), but doing groups allows someone to easily maintain the group without having to add hashtags to every pin they want in the group... It's just a lot easier.

It will definitely be a challenge... A challenge I'm for! As I said many times, I'll help as I can!

rik1138 said:

As I mentioned before, why? All I care about is the pin, if I'm trading on the new site, people can reference the pin on that site. There is absolutely no need to provide cross-reference to another site. Unless the creator of this new site really wants to hire a lawyer to go over all of this, I still recommend making no reference to PinPics at all, regardless of whether it's legal or not... Why even cause the problem?

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If the numbers are different, it may get confusing for some traders.... numbers will have to be different SOMEHOW...

Lets say I am looking for pinpics #2764 (lost children poster) BUT on the new website the number for this pin is 7659
Someone could easily go to pinpics and look up 7659... and it will be an ariel pin. Thats where this plan is flawed...

Maybe putting a letter or two into the equation may work out better? "EX: ZZ70" could be a new format for pin listings?

BugCatcherJenna said:

Lets say I am looking for pinpics #2764 (lost children poster) BUT on the new website the number for this pin is 7659
Someone could easily go to pinpics and look up 7659... and it will be an ariel pin. Thats where this plan is flawed...

Maybe putting a letter or two into the equation may work out better? "EX: ZZ70" could be a new format for pin listings?

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Yeah, I definitely agree that there should be something unique about the numbers on a new site. Adding a letter somewhere would work, or if the release-date format is used (20131115_001 for a pin released today, etc) that would work to. Some way so we can tell what site it's from just by looking at the number.


Oh, and just to make it official, I'm totally down for entering all the DSF Marquee info/photos/descriptions/whatever. Already have front/back pictures, and scans of all the cards.

Rik

While I like the concept of a numbering system based on date...my preference for that, would be something like 2013NOV1, 2013NOV2 over the very long string of numbers Rik has , I would wonder how the "automation" of it would work, and what happens if someone doesn't know the date, but someone else finds a date or the date was entered wrong (unnoticed typo or incorrect info) do pins get renumbered or are we stuck with the wrong date, leading confusion if the release date being something different. The system, whatever it is has to be idiot proof. I would also, in theory, like a prefix relating to the origin so WDW1 or WDI1 but places can change their name (like DSF), or things get released at one park and then a short time later get released at another one, or this confusion about what the Origin should be like pins released by WDI or someone else at a D23 sponsored event, or like a date might be, simply unknown.

If it were me, I would probably use the initials of whatever the new site might be called as a prefix, and then just start with 1. So for example, DPF1.

I agree, the dates idea my be WAY too complicated for some people, plus if 100 new pins are released one day... that may get very confusing...

BugCatcherJenna said:

I agree, the dates idea my be WAY too complicated for some people, plus if 100 new pins are released one day... that may get very confusing...

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Yeah, the date thing might be weird, but someone earlier asked if there was a way we could guarantee the numbers would be in chronological based on release date regardless of when the pin was entered in the database. The date in the number wouldn't be for 'reference' necessarily, just to keep the PIN numbers in order, and it would be created by the system based on the release date entered by the user. The problem of course arises when we don't know the release date, or it's entered wrong the first time... So it's probably just best to not do that at all. Just throwing out ideas.

I would think a comment 2 or 3 letter code for the website to start the number would just be the easiest solution. Like the DPF1 example...

Good idea about adding a letter in the Pin ID # to differentiate it from PinPics. I'll do that.

I should have a very early development version up soon... A matter of a few days from now really. I will keep everyone posted and I'll be looking for testers!

Half of the site is already working... User signup, Saving, Adding new pins, viewing and sharing a collection, etc. I'm not yet ready to share it, but some basic structure is already done.

Would a phone app to use on the go be that difficult to make? I always thought that would be part of pinpics big roll out. It would be great to have your collection, wants and trades all ready to go on an app!

For me, this is a very desired feature. I'd like to avoid the web based interface.

Cowcio said:

Would a phone app to use on the go be that difficult to make? I always thought that would be part of pinpics big roll out. It would be great to have your collection, wants and trades all ready to go on an app!

For me, this is a very desired feature. I'd like to avoid the web based interface.

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Honestly if this was possible I would never need to use pinpics or print outs again. Haha seriously a phone app would be EXCELLENT.

Excited to see the sample site too !!!

Phone apps are no problem, but they will come after the website.

ethanwa said:

Phone apps are no problem, but they will come after the website.

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I figured that was the case. If pinpics allowed you to develop an app using their info, I imagine that would be easiest of all, right? As long as there was an agreement that it would always be free.

Of course, long term, development of an independent site would be great.

Okay...first off, I will admit I have not read every entry on the thread....but I most certainly like the topic.

Couple of notes:

1. It is NOT illegal to copy information, photos from Pinpics. It was voluntarily given and even their own terms of service (which I have copies of from every year) state so long as it is used for free - it can be done. Hence, why I am holding a copy of the database from the years 2004, 2010 and current.

2. I, myself have over 20K of individual photos that I would be more than willing to contribute to any effort that will keep a pins database FREE for everyone to use -whether Ebay, or for signatures on boards.

3. Until Pinpics starts to charge or eliminate access to the old database -the interest level for a competitor site will be mild. Remember a very SMALL percentage of the pin population reads here, or even goes online about pin details. Also, you will always have people who come & go into trading that simply just go to the site they know. Which means..again unless the current LANSAM Pinpics is closed or eliminated..they gave no reason to look for alternatives.

But, keep in mind..databases take TIME and MONEY. It is a HUGE undertaking. Also know...if/when old site closes...I know of where people can go to access the old database for info purposes only. (it hasn't been readied for anything else but viewing).

I love this conversation as the new version of LANSAM's Pinpics SUCKS and is unusable.

Diana

I haven't read the thread entirely, but I have an idea that I think would help with determining "fakes" from the real thing. If you could have as a part of the description the "weight" of the real pin in "grams" I think this would be awesome. I know it would be a lot of work to have to weigh each pin, but I think because the materials differ so much from the real ones and the fakes that there would be a significant difference in the two. This may be stupid but it's just something that was on my mind when I was trying to figure out how to tell the differences in fakes early on. Obviously, characteristics such as color, edge quality, and the printing on the back of the pin also give it away. But hey what's wrong with another way to identify the real thing from a "fake/scrapper?"

Just my opinion and feedback on the matter, call it what you will.

Can someone explain a bit more about Groups to me? I understand wanting your own personal groups (example: "My kids pins" group), but what is the point of global groups?

If I wanted to see all Wreck-It Ralph pins, why couldn't I just search "Wreck It Ralph"? Why does a group need to be made for it?

I'd like a better understanding for the need of global groups.

ethanwa said:

Can someone explain a bit more about Groups to me? I understand wanting your own personal groups (example: "My kids pins" group), but what is the point of global groups?

If I wanted to see all Wreck-It Ralph pins, why couldn't I just search "Wreck It Ralph"? Why does a group need to be made for it?

I'd like a better understanding for the need of global groups.

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Good question! Here is my answer: If you search for "Wreck It Ralph" pins, you will get a lot of pins that don't even pertain to the movie. For example, any pin of "Ralph the Dog" would come up in the middle of the Vanellopes and King Candys. A pin for a "Car Wreck" would come up. Also, all of the legit WIR pins and these other pins will come up without any real organization. SO, a WIR pin group could list ONLY the actual pins based on the movie and they can be in chronological order from release or in order of specific characters. In addition to that, a pin group of the character, Chip, from "Beauty and the Beast" would show only pins of that character, while a search will pull up TONS of Chip 'n Dale pins. It really makes it easier for someone to see what pins are available for the movie, character, attraction, theme, series, etc. that they are collecting.

Club33 said:

I haven't read the thread entirely, but I have an idea that I think would help with determining "fakes" from the real thing. If you could have as a part of the description the "weight" of the real pin in "grams" I think this would be awesome. I know it would be a lot of work to have to weigh each pin, but I think because the materials differ so much from the real ones and the fakes that there would be a significant difference in the two. This may be stupid but it's just something that was on my mind when I was trying to figure out how to tell the differences in fakes early on. Obviously, characteristics such as color, edge quality, and the printing on the back of the pin also give it away. But hey what's wrong with another way to identify the real thing from a "fake/scrapper?"

Just my opinion and feedback on the matter, call it what you will.

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I don't think weight would necessarily be helpful, except in relation to small-ish edition sizes. Disney might contract the manufacture of a pin to multiple factories, particularly a pin that is sold for a number of years, and those factories might use different materials, which could affect the weight.

tiggeriffic said:

Good question! Here is my answer: If you search for "Wreck It Ralph" pins, you will get a lot of pins that don't even pertain to the movie. For example, any pin of "Ralph the Dog" would come up in the middle of the Vanellopes and King Candys. A pin for a "Car Wreck" would come up. Also, all of the legit WIR pins and these other pins will come up without any real organization. SO, a WIR pin group could list ONLY the actual pins based on the movie and they can be in chronological order from release or in order of specific characters. In addition to that, a pin group of the character, Chip, from "Beauty and the Beast" would show only pins of that character, while a search will pull up TONS of Chip 'n Dale pins. It really makes it easier for someone to see what pins are available for the movie, character, attraction, theme, series, etc. that they are collecting.

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This. There are several terms that have different meanings that would show up. Besides, Chip, Am (one of the cats from Lady & the Tramp) is hard to show up well via a search. Stitch pins come up with pins like this in a search http://gallery.pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=28333 But that pin and similar ones should have the fact that there are stitches around the edge of the pin in the description. If you want to search for Pete (Mickey's nemesis) that's part of the word Peter, so then all the Peter Pan pins come up. Nana pin searches contain anything with a banana. Alice in Wonderland now has three different connotations 1920's animated cartoons, the animated movie, and the Tim Burton movie. There's just a lot of overlap, and I'm not sure users want to figure out what other terms they have to include in a search to eliminate what they don't want and only get what they do want (see reaction to the mathematical equations we had to write before Pinpics recently updated the search).

There's also overlap when a pin is released as one location, exclusively, that would be necessary to have to fill out the history or the pin but would not necessarily make it a pin that someone who collects that location would want. For example, the surprise pins released in the early years of pin trading at WDW and DL. Since the point of those pins was you didn't know when or where they would drop, having the place it was released is essential, IMO. You could have a random character pin that was released only at the Magic Kingdom but no one collecting "Magic Kingdom" pins would consider it a "Magic Kingdom" pin. Or all the hundreds of pins released via the Epcot pin event which did not need to show up for an "Epcot" pin collector.

Maybe you could eliminate separate listings for APs, PPs, etcs. So if you have the artist proof of pin 1234 then instead of a separate entry your pin could just be 1234-AP

bombardon3 said:

Maybe you could eliminate separate listings for APs, PPs, etcs. So if you have the artist proof of pin 1234 then instead of a separate entry your pin could just be 1234-AP

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Great idea!!

bombardon3 said:

Maybe you could eliminate separate listings for APs, PPs, etcs. So if you have the artist proof of pin 1234 then instead of a separate entry your pin could just be 1234-AP

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yes please!!! I hate wading through those ap & pp listings. Every pin has them, they don't need their own listings.

BugCatcherJenna said:

(Pinpics.com the ideas above are mine, and I am claiming creative rights to this idea, it is not yours to take, and if I see this as one of your website updates in the future I will be outraged.)

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This is perfection... and it made me laugh!!

There are some great ideas brewing here. I can't wait to see what comes of it.

bombardon3 said:

Maybe you could eliminate separate listings for APs, PPs, etcs. So if you have the artist proof of pin 1234 then instead of a separate entry your pin could just be 1234-AP

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This is brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bombardon3 said:

Maybe you could eliminate separate listings for APs, PPs, etcs. So if you have the artist proof of pin 1234 then instead of a separate entry your pin could just be 1234-AP

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Yesss! I like this idea too! It's really annoying when I accidentally add the AP/PP version of a pin I want and wonder why I never get trade offers.

Ideally, I think the best system would be to code the numbers more like product codes in industry.
For instance:
you have a 14 digit pin number
(123) location number - wdi, wdw, dlr, etc
(456) generalized theme/attraction/movie
(789) character number
(abc) pin number
(de) date

so a pin with pluto for xmas 2013 at epcot could be 02700400704513
027 - WDW - Epcot
004 - Christmas
007 - Pluto
045 - 45th pin in category
13 - 2013