• Guest, Help The DPF Community Thrive - Join Our Donation Drive Today!

    We're launching a special DPF Donation Drive to ensure our beloved forum continues to flourish. Your support is vital in helping us cover essential server costs and keep our community running smoothly — This is more than just a donation; it's an investment in the future of our community.

    Join us in this crucial drive and let's ensure our forum remains a vibrant and dynamic place for everyone.

    Please visit the DPF Donation Drive Thread for details and instructions on how you can make your donation today!

Pin Database alternative? What do you think?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Pin Database alternative? What do you think?
Well this is all terribly exciting.

A few things regarding any intellectual property infringements:
The actual photo of each pin belong to PinPics (no matter who submitted them). This is why it's in their interest for people to submit actual photos rather than using images from Disney-owned sites (which is, in itself, a copyright infringement on their part). If someone has submitted photos and can prove that during the process of submission, PinPics did not alert them to the fact that the photos will become the property of PinPics, then there is a good chance the same image could be resubmitted to another site (without the Pinpics watermark).

The current description and its wording belongs to PinPics. Of course, an easy work-around would be to describe the pin in another manner. For example; PinPics has pins from DLR listed as "Disneyland/DCA USA" so any pin from DLR on the new site could be listed as something different, like "Disneyland Resort Anaheim" or something like that. Also, any other information regarding the pin (sku, origin, release date, etc) is public information and can be used however you see fit. Personally, I don't see the need for a SKU number, but that's just me.

Something to note before you go and put in a lot of hard work; there is a chance that PinPics will be all over this with possible threats of a lawsuit for various reasons in order to protect their investments. Before you move forward, you should find someone who can put you in contact with a REAL lawyer for some free (pro bono) advice regarding a website that would be in direct competition with PinPics. I'm not sure, but maybe a work-around to this may be to set up the "organization" that will maintain the website as a non-profit. Not sure about this one... however it's another reason to contact a lawyer who specializes in this kind of thing.

Setting up a competitive website and how it functions is just half of it. There are so many other things to consider that if you're not ready to handle all the crap you will inevitably go through, slow down and think about it seriously.

However, if someone with the talent to create a site is ready to move forward, you may have some key players in the pin community who can take charge and do what's necessary to get help get this project up and running.

Of course, you could just go stealth-like Ninja on them and just put it out there with a life of its own, maintained by the pin community where no one can be pinned down ('scuse the pun) and be held accountable for any infringements. The downside to this will be a messy, unorganized site of poor quality with loads of gibberish of varying degrees.

In the end, I agree, competition is good. However, I would also love to see PinPics get it together and address the numerous issues that have been presented here on DPF. It's within their grasp to really make it work and regain the support of the pin community.

GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE!!
 
Diablo said:
Personally, I don't see the need for a SKU number, but that's just me.
Click to expand...

It's for those of us who keep the cards, but do not display our pins on cards. If someone ever want to reunite the pin with its card, there needs to be some method of doing so. Also, open edition pins can be ordered from Mail Order. If you have a SKU it makes it so much easier to actually receive the correct pin. Thirdly, it's a way of checking the veracity of the item. If you buy something "new on card" and it arrives with a SKU that is completely different than what the card should say...you've got a problem.

Something to note before you go and put in a lot of hard work; there is a chance that PinPics will be all over this with possible threats of a lawsuit for various reasons in order to protect their investments. Before you move forward, you should find someone who can put you in contact with a REAL lawyer for some free (pro bono) advice regarding a website that would be in direct competition with PinPics. I'm not sure, but maybe a work-around to this may be to set up the "organization" that will maintain the website as a non-profit. Not sure about this one... however it's another reason to contact a lawyer who specializes in this kind of thing.
Click to expand...

While solid advice, that should be followed, I bet any hobby database website would love it, if they had some sort of legal right to be the sole entity allowed to run a type of database site. But it's only a quick Google away, that with any major hobby there are often multiple database websites. Comic Books, die cast cars, LEGO, etc. Disney pins should not expect special treatment. But a lawyer can clarify specific things.
 
I'm not really liking the new pinpics website eather, there's too much stuff I simply don't use, so I keep using the old version. Thing is though, won't it be confusing when people are talking about the pin# in the end? Because pp will have their #'s for the pins, and this new database will also have #'s? You would clearly need to specify from what website the # is (I can see it going wrong there a lot), otherwhise people will immidiatly go to pp I guess, and find a "wrong" pin.
 
I would like several pictures if one pin like front and back

would also love the option to makes lists or groups. Like my kids dont have a pinpics account each but add pins of their wants to my account. I would love to be able to devide my wants into like most wanted, idas wants, alvas wants and stuff like that
 
Snoffsan said:
I would like several pictures if one pin like front and back

would also love the option to makes lists or groups. Like my kids dont have a pinpics account each but add pins of their wants to my account. I would love to be able to devide my wants into like most wanted, idas wants, alvas wants and stuff like that
Click to expand...

Id like to see groups as I maintained the DLP Pin Trading Night group and its a perfect way to see the pins in the order of release rather than searching and going from page to page to find the correct order etc. I made a list in a spreadsheet of the order list just so I know in case I re-frame etc.
 
I logged onto pinpics search (old version) today and noticed the groups category was not there for the movie "Planes".
For folks that want to be completest you need the groups category to make sure you have them all.
I have been using it to verify where I am at on my Frankenweenie collection and a few others.

I miss that feature.
Sku #'s would be great too. All of my pins are in books and I have all the cards - would love to match them back up someday.
 
Stitch2814 said:
Id like to see groups as I maintained the DLP Pin Trading Night group and its a perfect way to see the pins in the order of release rather than searching and going from page to page to find the correct order etc. I made a list in a spreadsheet of the order list just so I know in case I re-frame etc.
Click to expand...

Thank you! That group list has been so helpful to me, especially when I first started collecting these pins.
 
Are there any computer savvy people who can program a web crawler that will just look up info off pinpics? Like start with number 1-n and fill in name, origin, release date, edition size, price, description etc etc etc. automating that data extraction will make it infinitely easier to redo a database.

Even in a basic wiki there could be a section with names listed of people wanting / people trading.
 
markheardjr said:
Are there any computer savvy people who can program a web crawler that will just look up info off pinpics? Like start with number 1-n and fill in name, origin, release date, edition size, price, description etc etc etc. automating that data extraction will make it infinitely easier to redo a database.

Even in a basic wiki there could be a section with names listed of people wanting / people trading.
Click to expand...

I can do this super easy. The problem is what is legal in terms of data I can use. For now, I may just have a link back to PinPics in the description of pins instead of copying the description (which would be illegal).
 
Couldnt you just make sure you looked up basic public info like price, edition size, release date, origin, SKU?
 
Yeah, just use it for the basic public info, ignore everything else. That will get the database started, and we can fill in details, photos and other stuff as we can.

I wouldn't provide any links back to PP or even mention the PP# though. Best to just make it a completely independent database/website.

Rik
 
I agree, the basic public info would be sufficient, at least to get something started! With so many of us willing to help, we could definitely obtain other information for you to add at a later time, but I do not think any linking to PP would be a good idea!

I do like the idea of multiple pics (if attainable) of each pin; front, back, close up of stamps, if a special backer card came with it a pic of that as well, etc.

:)
 
rik1138 said:
I wouldn't provide any links back to PP or even mention the PP# though. Best to just make it a completely independent database/website.

Rik
Click to expand...

That's the question I would ask a lawyer about. While investigating copyright, I also saw a case of a tool manufacturer trying to sue a competitor because the competitor referenced their Parts Number (Southco vs Kanebridge). The Court (the ruling was actually from now Justice Alito) denied the claim because the method from which the Parts Number was derived did not meet the minimum standards of creativity to warrant protection . The system in that case, was what we would probably consider fairly elaborate, so I'm pretty sure a numbering system that is simply the next number in the sequence, like Pinpics numbers, would not qualify for protection. Also, to use it as a reference becomes just as much basic data as a SKU is.

But I'd still ask a lawyer.
 
hopemax said:
That's the question I would ask a lawyer about. While investigating copyright, I also saw a case of a tool manufacturer trying to sue a competitor because the competitor referenced their Parts Number (Southco vs Kanebridge). The Court (the ruling was actually from now Justice Alito) denied the claim because the method from which the Parts Number was derived did not meet the minimum standards of creativity to warrant protection . The system in that case, was what we would probably consider fairly elaborate, so I'm pretty sure a numbering system that is simply the next number in the sequence, like Pinpics numbers, would not qualify for protection. Also, to use it as a reference becomes just as much basic data as a SKU is.

But I'd still ask a lawyer.
Click to expand...

Yeah, legally it might be okay... But it's probably just best (and less hassle if anyone decides to get lawyers involved) to not even bring it up.

If the new database is successful and liked, we won't _need_ a reference back to any other site.
Manufacturer part #s are a little different. If I need a part# 1-222-444, it needs to be that _exact_ part. So knowing how an aftermarket competitor cross-references the part #s is important.

I don't ever need a PinPics #96222, I just need an April Jessica Calendar (for example). Doesn't matter what the number is... And if the info is on the new site, I don't care what the number is on the other...
 
One thing I'd like is a category for future releases. This could use the image from Disney as temp image but once the pin has been released it should be replaced with a photo of the actual pin. I hate seeing art for a pin that looks nice but then after seeing in on the actual pin it's not so great. Or the more frequent opposite where the pin is gorgeous but the crappy low res images on PP doesn't do it any justice. Seriously the images need to be bigger than 10kb.

I'd also like a category for counterfeit/bootleg pins with an image comparing them side by side, like the listing for Maximus in PP. Those Jessica pins need it badly.
 
I don't think it would be TOO hard to get a steady amount of collectors to add pins to a new database.
People here have big collections, and are willing to help.

I am sure some pins on PP are lost completely with 0 wants 0 trading.
so if the website started with popular pins, that will get more site traffic and get more people into the idea...

This is not going to happen over night... you guys who are saying "oh it can't be done" "good luck" need to have some faith.
The website WILL take years to complete, unless it has people adding 100's of pins a day. "Rome wasn't built in a day"

I would help add pins to it, maybe have a special section that features the names of people who have added the most (and informative/descriptive) pins?
Maybe even a leaderboard of the people who have contributed the most.. That will give people the motivation to help out..
Or do raffles to the top 10 contributors for a free pin or something every month??

Look at the points system here on dpf.. I know a few members who started to spam and post CONSTANTLY just to get the little icons by their name..


(Pinpics.com the ideas above are mine, and I am claiming creative rights to this idea, it is not yours to take, and if I see this as one of your website updates in the future I will be outraged.)
 
It's odd you say Pinpics owns the images. When I tried to submit my app to the Apple apps store, they said Disney owned the artwork of the pin and therefore the image of the pin, no matter who took it, was copyrighted by Disney. But I do know Pinpics is taking off who sumitted the photo to try to say it is there's. If they did leave who took the photo then that person could simply say ok and we could go.

I think if you can get the basic info, we could come up with a new system if we wanted, but referencing Pinpics numbers is fine. We can have our own arbitrary list of numbers if we want and just reference theirs. So our pin #1 might be a hidden mickey and that references to pin pinpics 88888 or whatever. Oil filter companies and air filter companies do that all the time and then places like Autozone make a decoder book. The one part number is the same as another but with a different prefix. So our's could even be w88888 for "wiki-88888" and there's is 88888 and it's still fine.

I'm not sure sure we'd have to change the title. That is representative of the pin itself. The descriptions maybe they could say that is like proprietary info or something but you could just rewrite the basics or even IMPROVE on the description.

I think groups would be easiest to just to hashtags. Then you can search for #carsland or #parisPTN or whatever the groups are. You can have a page for all the groups listed. You could search your collection, trades, wants similarly with #markheardjrO, #markheardjrW, #markheardjrT. For Owns, Wants, Trades. Then just search "#markheardjrO" and all my owns will show up. Only problem with Wiki's is if you let everyone edit them everyone can screw them up. But cached pages could be refreshed.
 
Maybe get a list of people who are completeists at something and ask them to start. For example, I can do Cars Land and PTD's. But you have to make sure you don't get duplicates, or I guess it would be easy to delete but still, easier to parse out the work. Probably 1000 people have the Paris Rapunzel rack pin, but which of the 1000 will add it?
 
One thing I would be concerned with many people adding, especially if it becomes a competition, is that in their exuberance to participate, pictures of counterfeited pins will get added in place of real pins. Not intentionally, but we all know that there are probably pins in our collection that aren't real that we don't realize. I would suggest that for phase 1, that people only add images for pins that they are 100% sure have their original packaging. Hidden Mickeys get added by people who have their sources to get them from the refreshing batches, or out of pouches. See how far we can get, and then access from there. Some pins, especially vintage pins, may be harder to find, so maybe more leeway there.


Plus, it guarantees that we could get a picture of the packaging as well. More questionable sellers are putting pins on cards, but they're often the wrong card. If people knew what the card should be, it would be helpful. Like pins released in 2012 should not come on a DL 50th anniversary card.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top