Second Opinion Wanted: DA100s versus more current pins: Worth that much more?

[broncobilly83]

As most of you realize, some of my holy grails are some of the older DA100s pins of Scrooge McDuck, and probably top of that list is [pinpics]43967[/pinpics]: Disney Auctions - Football Series ( Scrooge and Nephews ) because I used to play football as well. Now I have seen the pin on EBay time and again, being listed for $90 and not really selling, so I have been trying to reasonably trade for the pin. Every now and then, one person responds, and we have talked before and have been able to come to an agreement, but I thought I would share the e-mail conversation to see if I am approaching this incorrectly

Their initial E-mail to me:

Hi Bill,

The reason you are having such a hard time trading for this pin is three fold:
1. It is and LE 100
2. It is Scrooge McDuck and there are a lot of Scrooge collectors and they are into collecting multiples
3. The trades to wants are 5 to 59. 3 of the five do not trade anymore. The 4th one only wants one pin for that pin. That leaves me. So you are really looking at 1 to 59. That is a very hard pin.

Anyway I am willing to give this one more shot. I will only trade for either 2 very hard LE 200-300 or one very hard plus 2 medium. Let me know if you want to do this. I do not want to spend time on this if you have not figured out that it is worth that. If you do not want to trade that is fine I totally understand. But if that is the case you need to buy it on e-bay as I am the only one trading it. Hope you have a great week.

to which I said:
Thank you for the e-mail. I am open to trying and work something out, but in all fairness, I can not just agree to "either 2 very hard LE 200-300 or one very hard plus 2 medium." without knowing what pins you might have in mind.

You and I have discussed this before, and while I am willing to trade somewhat over it's worth because it is a high want, it has to be reasonable to both of us. I believe last time we talked about this, you were asking for pins worth a total of around $120-$130 for a pin I can buy on E-Bay (at the time) for around $85, and now around $90

As a current example, you have this pin on your wants: Pin 57578: DisneyShopping.com - Jessica Rabbit Costume Series (Mrs. Incredible), which I have on it's original card, etc. but I have not offered that pin for trade for the Scrooge pin, even though the Scrooge is a high want, because that Jessica pin, even though an LE250, is worth a lot more than the Scrooge pin.

They replied:

I understand that you do not want to agree to a trade without knowing the pins. What I was trying to determine is if you understand by now how hard is it to come by LE 100 pins. I can tell by your comments that we have completely different ideas on how to trade for them.

I was not around during the Disney Auctions days. I started trading 8 years ago. I learned very quickly that my favorite pins where auction pins. I also learned that in order to get the LE 100 DA pins I needed other DA LE 100 pins. Well I did not have them. So I went about learning how to acquire these highly sought after pins. I found that I could trade multiples for them. However to do so meant I had to trade a premium for them as the other person was giving up a much more difficult pin. Yes there are a few higher edition pins worth an LE 100 but not many (unless we are talking about Mickey LOL) However I always new I had to trade more than e-bay value for the LE 100. I think that is where you are stuck. Considering where you are coming from you are probably better off buying on ebay. I am not willing to give up a pin that will always be worth a lot for pins I am not sure of, but know that they are far inferior pins to the DA 100's.

Hope that helps you understand why I am going to pass.

and I said:
You have been doing this a lot longer than I, as I have been doing this about 3-4 years now, and I missed out on a lot of pins even after the DA100s, DA500s and DA1000s, like a lot of the Disney Shopping pins (now they are DisneyStore.com), etc. Like you, I learned that to get the older pins, I had to invest monies and multiple pin for one pin trades to get higher scale traders to get shots at pins on my wants. Everyone has their own way of trading, and judging a trade, and I really do try to take into account all factors.

I do not do DAs specifically, but character collections, as I am sure you can tell. I have never been against trading higher than value for a pin I want as a collection piece, as I have done that time and again for certain items, but trading almost 100% value higher to a pin's current worth, as the last time this was discussed between us was leading towards, is a little higher than I am willing to go, even for a Scrooge pin.

If there was another way to assign worth to a pin besides money, I would be open to understanding it, but realistically, looking to see if a pin sells and at what price(s) may be the only public accessible way of judging a value, because we do not see what other people might be trading it for, or selling privately on pin boards, Facebook, etc. I mean, if someone could show where a pin is worth trading $150 worth of pins when it is selling for $90-$100, I am open to understanding that, but realistically there is no way to know that.

Sorry we could not work something out
Bill

They then said:

I know everyone sees things differently, but just so we are clear, Last time around I considered your pins $50 +30+30 =$110 verses $85 so I definitely did not consider it twice the value. And also to be clear I now consider the Scrooge pin to be way more difficult after going to eBay and looking at what the last 2 LE 100's Scrooge pins sold for at auction. I try not to look at that all the time though. Most times it is how much I want or don't want the pin. I wish you well on your search for your pins.

to which I replied:
I considered them a little higher since I had more vested in them, since some of them I had to get via secondary market means, whether in trade or purchase.

Also, yes, SOME Scrooge pins have been selling high, but looking at the specific one in question, the seller, who is probably one of the biggest Scrooge pin I have heard of since he always updates PinPics with new Scrooges, can not even sell it for $90 and has been trying for a while.

Bill
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So out of all that, my question is, Are DAs a better pin, and automatically worth more, regardless of most characters, etc, even though some of more recent ones, like Jessicas as other characters, or Tangled pins, or Beloved Tales are steadily climbing in value? Am I misjudging the market, or am I right to stick with my way of looking at values in this case?

 

[suzanneb]

I have some older DA LE 100's that no one seems to want. Others are in MUCH demand. It really does depend on the pin in my experience

 

[Psycho Pixie]

in general DA 100's have stood the test of time and HELD Value... While the new stuff that is skyrocketing 2 hours after release will likely drop and/or settle into a more stable price later.

if the discussion is correct and the da le100 really is 1/59... thats a hard pin to get. Not 1/200 hard, but definately hard. I guess it really depends on how bad you want the item.

 

[pinnochiolover]

I have always found DA pins hard to acquire. Generally people will only trade DA pins for other DA pins, so when you dont have any its difficult to get into the market! However, whilst they are dificult to come by, many of them are NOT worth as much as some of the newer pins as you mentioned.

 

[markheardjr]

I kinda of just avoid DALE100's because the people that have them think they are worth their weight in gold. Some are highly valuable yes, but some are just eh. I also know they often sold for high prices, so a $30 sale price 8 years ago that you've had for that long holding for something good, you're emotionally invested in the pin now. I only own 1 DALE100 and I just got it. A Pooh 80th anniv. pin I traded a $30 DSF pin for. I like the Pooh pin, I have no idea how much it's worth, I just wanted it for my wife.

I am a Tinker Bell collector and I am settling in on DS.com pins mostly LE125, 250, 300, 500, 1000. The LE100 stuff is just too hard. And to be quite honest, most of the older traders that have the LE100's either just want to show and tell or completely disregard newer pin release values. DSF Surprise China Girl from Oz is a $100 pin, many DALE100's are not $100 pins. DSF BT Tangled is a $250-$300 pin, but try to pry a DALE100 from an older trader and they get heartburn that your pin is only a month and a half old and they've had their pin for 8 years.

I break it down to money, typically eBay prices. If it hasnt' sold, it's T/W. 5 to 59 is not a crazy hard pin. 5 to 300, now that's gonna be hard to let go. Anytime the wants is highr than the edition size you know you have a winner.

I have a WDI LE100 Star Tours mystery chaser of Bespin. I couldn't trade it for a $30 pin. I keep a few extra on the off chance I get a person that wants it and trades solely off edition size. Which a few of those exist. Maybe I can get a LE125 Tink for it or something.

 

[Nettiejeanne]

A pin is only ever worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If you are not willing to pay $150 worth in pins... then it isn't worth it.

It's super subjective. The real question is... how much is it worth to YOU?

I know that my "Most Ultimate Holy Grail" is Minnie as Alice. I'd pretty much be willing to trade ALL of my traders for her. Like I said.... it's all subjective!

Best of luck! I hope you get your pin!

 

[dalakersrnumba1]

Sell some pins, buy some pins. Then everything is based on a monetary scale. It's the "new" trading habits.

 

[broncobilly83]

Sell some pins, buy some pins. Then everything is based on a monetary scale. It's the "new" trading habits.

As I pointed out to them in a further e-mail as they basically said the same thing:

To me, the hobby is Pin Trading. That is part of the fun and the challenge. If I just wanted to buy the pins in my wants, I could sell all my traders, and just buy what I wanted with that money. I try to get traders I can trade for a multitude of pins, not necessarily the one you have alone

Yes, sometimes I sell some to buy, but I rarely buy the ones I want for ME. Most times, I will buy traders I think might work, since that is the hobby.

 

[unibear]

I have lots of DA pins for trade, and fewer new ones. That being said, I ultimately value my pins by $$ (often, eBay) because even with DA100 pins, I find it very difficult to trade for the pins I want so I end up buying most of them.

While it's nice that they are valuing your pins at $110 (even though you are valuing them slightly higher), it is a fact that you can get that pin for $90 worth of money! So, I share a view much closer to yours than the other trader. And as someone who has bought many grails, I would suggest buying this pin and end your [I did NOT mean to type 'our'!!] suffering and start your joy!

Good luck.

 

[markheardjr]

Sell some pins, buy some pins. Then everything is based on a monetary scale. It's the "new" trading habits.

I think one of the root causes for this are the older traders that refuse to trade their older pins. I very much dislike that I am often stuck with buying on eBay. Everytime people sell a pin on eBay to buy a pin on eBay eBay is making 10% on each transaciton. So if your pin sold for $50 and you bought a pin for $50, eBay gets $10, and then another $3 from paypal (which they own,) so 13%. So the pin community started with $100 worth of pins and ends up with $87 of money/pin value after the exchange. If these people would just trade, there is no take, except maybe mail. Pin traders need to learn to trade and stop running to eBay to flip their latest buy and then turn around and buy a pin off eBay. ESPECIALLY if that pin they buy is BIN and overpriced!

 

[dalakersrnumba1]

If you think about it, everything is technically trading. I am trading money for pins and pins for money. But I understand where you're coming from. As for me, if I need to have a pin, the best way for me to get it is by purchasing it. Some people just don't budge trading wise so it's easier and I'm happy. Haha

As I pointed out to them in a further e-mail as they basically said the same thing:


Yes, sometimes I sell some to buy, but I rarely buy the ones I want for ME. Most times, I will buy traders I think might work, since that is the hobby.

 

[dalakersrnumba1]

But that's how it is nowadays. No one wants to trade. Are the newbies supposed to just not get pins they want when they have the resources (pins/money) to? I'm all for trading, but when I want a pin and I can't get it through trade, I'm going to buy it somehow whether it be through straight pocket money or through selling pins. Sure it's taking away from the trading fun, but definitely not taking away from the happiness one gets from getting something really wanted. I do get your point though, it's just our opinions differ.

... If these people would just trade, there is no take, except maybe mail. Pin traders need to learn to trade and stop running to eBay to flip their latest buy and then turn around and buy a pin off eBay. ESPECIALLY if that pin they buy is BIN and overpriced!

 

[PrincessBecky]

Everyone trades differently...some people are set on the trade/want ratios, some look at eBay sold prices, some aren't "really" trading their pin unless that one perfect pin comes along that can pry it from their hands.

This other trader you were dealing with sounds like they value this Scrooge pin very highly, and aren't interested in letting it go unless they get the better end of the deal. I'm also not a fan of when traders try to "teach" you about values and such, as it is really a personal and subjective thing. This comment irritates me:

What I was trying to determine is if you understand by now how hard is it to come by LE 100 pins.

Some LE100 pins can be purchased for $10, so not all pins are created equal. And not all DA LE100s are hard to come by, I have made some very fair and easy trades over the years for DA LE100 pins. It just depends if you are after a "hot" character or theme or not (or in your case, a character that gets very little pins to begin with). I remember about two years ago I was able to purchase two of the LE100 Princess Friends pins for $30 each!


Have you asked the person selling this pin on eBay if they would come down on their price? If it has been sitting there for awhile they might strike a deal. I was just able to purchase a pin that was listed for $179 for $100...so you never know.

I have also realized that sometimes it really is just easier to buy the pin you are after than attempt to trade for it. I was holding on to so many hard pins (Jessica jumbos, older Alice pins, various LE100s) thinking I could trade them for grails and such...but it never worked out. Now that I have started selling some of these and my PayPal account balance is sizable again I am thinking of all the grails I can actually obtain now through purchasing.

 

[Merryweather]

The hobby can be "pin trading" or "pin collecting", more often a little bit of both.

We always say "Everyone values ther pins differently" and this seems to be one of those times where 2 traders won't see eye-to-eye.

No big deal. I would move on to the purchase option.

 

[markheardjr]

But that's how it is nowadays. No one wants to trade. Are the newbies supposed to just not get pins they want when they have the resources (pins/money) to? I'm all for trading, but when I want a pin and I can't get it through trade, I'm going to buy it somehow whether it be through straight pocket money or through selling pins. Sure it's taking away from the trading fun, but definitely not taking away from the happiness one gets from getting something really wanted. I do get your point though, it's just our opinions differ.

But if people would put their pins on pinpics and trade there, or at PTNs, or the park, or DSF, or wherever, instead of rushing to eBay there would be 30-40 more pins for trade. Also, if they traded it, it would open up more pins they could get. I mean, I am not completely old school. I have sold pins on eBay and I have bought far more pins on eBay. But, buy an extra or two, put it on your pinpics and see you can get. I know many can't afford to float a big trader book, but you have to build up to it. The "I want it now" generation, which I'm considered part of, needs to learn some patience, financial logic, and that way they will get better. Also, the older traders that are fed up with DSF and sit at home and buy the pins on eBay won't be able to anymore, they will have to come out and trade.

 

[dalakersrnumba1]

That's the crazy part! And I do apologize for going off topic from Bill's thread asking for a second opinion, but the ones who jumped on those I WANT IT NOW prices from just a year ago have already profited as the pins they bought at what was thought to be a HIGH VALUE has actually increased (on many occasions such as Tangled, BTs, Marquees, NEWER STUFF). And as for those older traders with the harder to get pins, well they simply sell and buy as well. I'm sure it works both ways.

Getting back to Bill's thread, if you really really want the pin (regardless of how much trading is your hobby) just buy the pin and sell some pins you couldn't trade for it. In the end you'd have your grail, and then you can move on to making other trades without having to wonder if you'll ever get your pin.

The "I want it now" generation, which I'm considered part of, needs to learn some patience, financial logic, and that way they will get better. Also, the older traders that are fed up with DSF and sit at home and buy the pins on eBay won't be able to anymore, they will have to come out and trade.

 

[Mad hatter]

I absolutely love DA pins love love love them but yes they are hard to acquire or expensive but I believe they are of better quality than the pins from the last 5 years just my view if its a pin I really want I will pay up to 100 for it. They never seem to lose their value only go up in value

 

[rubyquest]

Hi ,I was reading your question and I have to say not only DA LE100 are hard to trade for or expensive to buy but even the LE 1000's are hard too. I personally stop buying park pins when DA came out . They are beautiful , they are big pins and the quality of the pins are good. Whenever I missed one they were impossible to trade for even thou everyone had them.So its not that they are old pins but it is just that they are beautiful pins. I wish disney would make pins like that. So good luck with whatever you decide to do as long you are happy.
But I just have to say they've always been hard to trade no matter the edition size.

 

[Mixedwolf]

I have a DA LE 100 pin. If you would like to offer it to this guy I am sure you and I can come to an agreement that will make both of us happy. The pin is
Pin 47357: Disney Auctions - Lumiere & Cogsworth (Jumbo) Let me know if he goes for it. I would be happy to help you out.

 

[Masamune]

"If there was another way to assign worth to a pin besides money, I would be open to understanding it"

This is just my opinion, so please don't take it the wrong way or anything. It sounds like this other person values pins using multiple factors (Trades/Wants, Edition Size, Age, etc), whereas you seem to only seem to value pins by what they sell for on eBay. As he said, everyone values pins differently. In my own experience, I have struggled to come to an agreement with people who've said "It's worth this because that's what it sells for on eBay".

In answer to your question, I don't think that being a DA pin makes it automatically better than other pins. But I do think that the age should be considered, and the Trades/Wants. DA pins are generally gonna be harder to get because they're older, and have fewer people trading them. Hope all that makes sense! XD; Just my opinion.

 

[Story]

His last point in his "three fold" argument is what *irked* me (for lack of a better term):

3. The trades to wants are 5 to 59. 3 of the five do not trade anymore. The 4th one only wants one pin for that pin. That leaves me. So you are really looking at 1 to 59. That is a very hard pin.

Whether or not he really knows these traders, and whether or not what he says is entirely correct about these traders... I personally read that as him acting like he's your only shot to get this pin and holding it over your head. I don't know if I'm reading it right or not, but that just struck me wrong. :dunno:

 

[Stitch2814]

At this moment in time with the newer traders and the BOOM in ebay sales etc that has led the way to people using Ebay to solely value their pin rather than the wants vs trades, how old it is and all the other factors and I am not liking that part of the hobby when people are just looking at the $$ rather than the wants vs trades of a pin offered or the pin in question.

I had trouble trading for a few of my stitch invasion DA pins and thats when there was not the it sells for this so I want all this people out there, back then the traders looked at the wants vs trades, how much it cost them, what they may have traded for it to determine what they would trade it away for and to me I always stick by that, I try and trade that way still and it is disheartening when the newer kids about use ebay as the main tool to determine value when pinpics wants vs trades is a database to use to trade and if people are cutting that out then I see no need for pinpics wans vs trades lol

Bill, I know how you feel, I tried and tried to trade with the one person trading a st patricks day stitch pin, I eventually forcked out the $$ when one appeared on ebay as seemed the only way I would have been able to get the pin. Back then the trades was 1 to about 78 wanting. So it could be worthwhile to just buy it or offer the seller an amount and see if he counters or accepts your offer.

just my little 2 cents.

 

[broncobilly83]

"If there was another way to assign worth to a pin besides money, I would be open to understanding it"

This is just my opinion, so please don't take it the wrong way or anything. It sounds like this other person values pins using multiple factors (Trades/Wants, Edition Size, Age, etc), whereas you seem to only seem to value pins by what they sell for on eBay. As he said, everyone values pins differently. In my own experience, I have struggled to come to an agreement with people who've said "It's worth this because that's what it sells for on eBay".

In answer to your question, I don't think that being a DA pin makes it automatically better than other pins. But I do think that the age should be considered, and the Trades/Wants. DA pins are generally gonna be harder to get because they're older, and have fewer people trading them. Hope all that makes sense! XD; Just my opinion.

No offense taken, so no worries. I take into account a lot of different factors when I trade, wants, T/W ratios, what it took for me to get the pin being asked for, plus if I truly wanted the pin at all costs, what would I pay for it, but unfortunately, when you are dealing with other individuals who might have different ways of judging, sometimes the only thing that can be judged equally across the board by both parties is "What is the pin worth?" and sometimes the only way to judge that is by looking at legit past sales.

To me, it feels like they feel, "MY pin is a DA, so regardless of what you have, my pin is automatically worth more", even though pins I am asking for are regularly selling and trading for greater amounts than the pin in question.

 

[Bryana]

In general I think there is way too much over analyzing in pin trading.

I have come across people who say, "Well my pin is for sale (not sold for) X amount on Ebay right now but your pin only cost Y."The Y cost being the price it cost in 2004 and not considering the selling price (whether sold or not) on Ebay right now.

I have come across people who say, "Well my pin is a LE300 and yours is only a LE500. Not considering the want/trade ratio is much better.

I have come across people who say, "Well I had to stand in line for hours to get my pin and you just bought yours on the internet." Even though price, LE, and w/t ratio is comparable.

My thought is that if a trader is going to make up whatever reason not to trade then what's the fun in trading. They should probably just collect and not bother trading. I get that people have stuff on their wants list but it may not be high on their list but to hold out in hope that something better comes along doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because who is to say that will ever happen? Perhaps it is the retail store owner in me but I like to turn inventory. If the trade is fair (IE comparable trade/wants, LE numbers, and even cost) I'll trade. I do not include my investment time or what I had to do to get the pin as a factor. I trade because it is fun. If I nitppick everything then I won't get to trade and I should probably just buy the pins I want and not trade. What fun is that!?!

In my opinion, the bottomline is that you have 3 choices.
1. Give the guy what he wants
2. Wait for it to go up for sale, suck it up, and pay the price
3. Wait and hope that another person is trading it.

Personally I would trade because that is more fun. Hopefully you will be happy to finally get your pin and then you made another person happy by getting that person some pins that they wanted. BUT...only do it if you can put aside the cost, the time invested, etc, and have no regrets.

Only you can decide what the best option is.

 

[Rocke01]

In general I have found it harder to trade for DA pins than the others. People just tend to want more for them. I also think that the person with the wanted pins tends to get more for it than it's actual worth in trade because they are not as invested in the trade. The person wanting the trade generally has to entice the person with the pin to trade. I think that is the nature of trading. Of course, if you have a wanted pin that the person really wants then it will even out. If you want the best way to acquire the pin, I would sell your good traders you were going to let go of and then buy the pin on the Bay. Or even better, sell more lesser value pins to buy the pin and save the better ones for future trades. That is how I would probably approach it if it were me.