Sending Paypal Payment as a Gift

[pook-a-lu-le]

Ok, I'm ready to get on a soapbox discussion about buyers sending Paypal payments to a seller marked as a "Gift" so the seller can avoid a few $ in Paypal fees.

First of all when you buy a pin and mark the payment as a "gift", you are being dishonest - and when a seller ask that you mark your payment as a gift, they are being dishonest - the seller is asking the buyer to give up all Paypal's Buyer Protection to circumvent having to pay a few $ fee. IMHO, a good seller would never ask a buyer to do this.

If you choose to pay with paypal and mark "gift" instead of payment for "goods" purchased -you loose ALL of your paypal protection if the item is never sent, if it gets stolen, lost, or if it arrives damaged - and you could be out all of the money you sent the seller. If you don't mind the risk of ending up with no pin and no money, that's one thing - but just be aware of the fact before you agree to do it.

Trust is not the issue...too many things can go wrong with any sale or shipment, and money is too hard to come by these days.

 

[erudolf]

I used to ask to be paid as a gift until I found that out. I now give the buyer the choice. If they choose not to send as a gift then they cover the fee. If they send as a gift, then they save a few cents/bucks. I'm not out to scam anyone and I put DC on all packages and insurance on big ones. So, rather than baking it into the price, I give the option.

 

[broncobilly83]

First of all when you buy a pin and mark the payment as a "gift", you are being dishonest - and when a seller ask that you mark your payment as a gift, they are being dishonest - the seller is asking the buyer to give up all Paypal's Buyer Protection to circumvent having to pay a few $ fee. IMHO, a good seller would never ask a buyer to do this.

That is why you do not do it as a "Gift" but "Payment Owed", both under the personal tab, which is what it is. You are not shopping a business, and sometimes, you are paying someone back who picks up a pin for you AT COST so they are not profiting, they are just helping out

I also believe Payment Owed is covered by protection

 

[tinkerbelle1956]

Well if thats the case then I should be protected as I sent it payment owed . Thats the way I send my payments, not gift . My mistake !

 

[broncobilly83]

Well if thats the case then I should be protected as I sent it payment owed . Thats the way I send my payments, not gift . My mistake !

I think you are. Try to filing a dispute, it will tell you if you can. I know "Gift" it says no claims can be filed, but we had this discussion on a TF board I belong to, and someone said "Payment Owed" can have claims filed against it. If they were not crashing every 5 minutes due to Comic-Con coverage, I could look for that thread.

 

[tinkerbelle1956]

Thank You .

 

[hopemax]

I am concerned with the "payment owed" option. In the info on Paypal, it says its for stuff like you split lunch with a friend and you are paying them back. I'm afraid that if you went to Paypal and said that someone didn't send you merchandise, that they will treat it as you and they were trying to cheat Paypal out of fees and not provide satisfactory resolution. I won't risk it. From the user agreement section 13.2 concerning eligibility for Buyer protection, last bullet in section a

the Send Money tab on the PayPal website, by clicking the “Purchase†tab, or by selecting the “Checkout with PayPal†button or otherwise selecting PayPal as part of a Seller’s checkout flow.

In 13.3 - Ineligible items it specifically lists "Personal Payment" which is what I think all of the choices under the "Personal" tab qualify as.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?...UserAgreement_full&fli=true&locale.x=en_US#13. Protection for Buyers.

 

[broncobilly83]

I am concerned with the "payment owed" option. In the info on Paypal, it says its for stuff like you split lunch with a friend and you are paying them back. I'm afraid that if you went to Paypal and said that someone didn't send you merchandise, that they will treat it as you and they were trying to cheat Paypal out of fees and not provide satisfactory resolution. I won't risk it. From the user agreement section 13.2 concerning eligibility for Buyer protection, last bullet in section a



In 13.3 - Ineligible items it specifically lists "Personal Payment" which is what I think all of the choices under the "Personal" tab qualify as.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?...UserAgreement_full&fli=true&locale.x=en_US#13. Protection for Buyers.

OK, that sounds new (they recently did a revamp of their rules so the previous discussions I had seen may be moot). But take Caligurl as an example. She is picking up product at cost for us. How is a business? That is paying someone to pick something up for you that is specific to that person's area. That is not buying something, she is picking us up something and we are paying her back, the same as if she bought us lunch and we paid her back.

 

[tinkerbelle1956]

I'm going to let it go and learn a lesson from this experience . If I bought pins from a member before and know them, then I'll send it as payment owed , if they are new with no feedback , Goods !

 

[pook-a-lu-le]

I used to ask to be paid as a gift until I found that out. I now give the buyer the choice. If they choose not to send as a gift then they cover the fee. If they send as a gift, then they save a few cents/bucks. I'm not out to scam anyone and I put DC on all packages and insurance on big ones. So, rather than baking it into the price, I give the option.

that's a good idea - however, you are known for being honest and if something did happen during shipment, I'm sure you would make it good. Sad to say this doesn't always happen.
Now, as far as marking it as "payment owed"...I'm really not sure if a buyer is protected if they mark the "payment owed". It would seem if you paid someone money for something they did (like sending you a pin), or for some other "service", if you had to explain it to Paypal what exactly would you say?

Anyway, I think like erudolf, if the buyer trust you and offers to send as a gift, that's ok, but I'd have to have an awful lot of trust to do it. I'd rather pay for my protection than risk being out my money and my pin, or else end up having to try to explain to Paypal why they should cover me when my pin never showed up.

 

[mybabykelly]

that's a good idea - however, you are known for being honest and if something did happen during shipment, I'm sure you would make it good. Sad to say this doesn't always happen.
Now, as far as marking it as "payment owed"...I'm really not sure if a buyer is protected if they mark the "payment owed". It would seem if you paid someone money for something they did (like sending you a pin), or for some other "service", if you had to explain it to Paypal what exactly would you say?

Anyway, I think like erudolf, if the buyer trust you and offers to send as a gift, that's ok, but I'd have to have an awful lot of trust to do it. I'd rather pay for my protection than risk being out my money and my pin, or else end up having to try to explain to Paypal why they should cover me when my pin never showed up.

I agree. There are quite a few sellers on here that I send as "payment owed" because I have had multiple transactions with them and have great communication with them. One time a package took longer than expected to get here, but I had total faith in the seller, had worked with him often, and knew it was the post office's fault. Other than that, I wouldn't purchase a pin from a new seller without some security. Its nice to have faith in people, but sometimes that doesn't work out quite well.

 

[minpintrader]

Regarding Paypal protection, paying with "payment owed" option, does not protect purchases. It is under the "Personal" Paypal category, and therefore NO purchase protection is provided (from any category under "Personal").

Only choosing the "Purchase" option will there be protection. (speaking from experience, unfortunately...)

 

[hopemax]

I agree. There are quite a few sellers on here that I send as "payment owed" because I have had multiple transactions with them and have great communication with them. One time a package took longer than expected to get here, but I had total faith in the seller, had worked with him often, and knew it was the post office's fault. Other than that, I wouldn't purchase a pin from a new seller without some security. Its nice to have faith in people, but sometimes that doesn't work out quite well.

And sometimes not in the way you expect. Something that I experienced in another hobby, scrapbooking. We do these things called swaps, where a dozen people make something. We all send to a "hostess" who will sort everything and send boxes back to people with one of each item made. Like pin sales, you have trust the hostess because you are not only sending your items, you are sending return postage. Well, we had a hostess everyone trusted. On time with her stuff, no problems. She was going away for a weekend, and then would be sorting and mailing our stuff when she got home. And we didn't hear from her for 6 months. Turns out she got seriously injured in a skiing accident. She was in the hospital for awhile, developed an infection and so even when she was released she had to be kept in a "clean" environment. Medical emergencies happen; we've already seen it here with Constance and Master Gracey. So it's not just a question of do you trust them, but do you trust a person enough that if you don't hear from them for months that you won't worry?

 

[pook-a-lu-le]

Unfortunately, there is also death to consider...if I go, I don't want a bunch of people who don't even know me PO'd through out eternity. I will accept and pay my just dues here on earth when I can.

 

[Dyllan]

Wow, I didn't know this at all. I've paid for some expensive stuff that way, at the seller's request. I haven't been ripped off, but now I think I better stop doing that before I am.

 

[Story]

OK, that sounds new (they recently did a revamp of their rules so the previous discussions I had seen may be moot). But take Caligurl as an example. She is picking up product at cost for us. How is a business? That is paying someone to pick something up for you that is specific to that person's area. That is not buying something, she is picking us up something and we are paying her back, the same as if she bought us lunch and we paid her back.

Yeah, I totally agree it shouldn't be up to people who are helping out other members to pay the fees. If someone is buying something for other members at cost, then the fees would add up and they could be out a good sum of dollars depending on how many people you help just for offering to help. (I mean, sure fees are only $1 sometimes, but if they are helping 20 people, that would be $20 out of their own pocket they'd have to pay just in paypal fees.)

I will send as gift once in a while, but more than often I choose to pay as goods. When doing this though, if the seller has requested a gift payment, I just take the responsibility to pay the fees by using a paypal calculator: http://www.rolbe.com/paypal4.htm

This way the seller isn't out any money for helping me, but everyone is still protected through paypal.

 

[TheGrimGrinner]

That's all and well for people who are selling pins as a business, but like has been mentioned, a lot of what happens on this forum is people buying pins for others for at cost prices. Why should the "seller" be docked the money? Personally, I'm fine with however the "buyer" wants to pay, as long as I receive the full amount that I asked for.

Let's put it this way... what if a seller asks for Money Order/Checks only?

 

[pook-a-lu-le]

That's all and well for people who are selling pins as a business, but like has been mentioned, a lot of what happens on this forum is people buying pins for others for at cost prices. Why should the "seller" be docked the money? Personally, I'm fine with however the "buyer" wants to pay, as long as I receive the full amount that I asked for.

Let's put it this way... what if a seller asks for Money Order/Checks only?

If a seller asks for MO/check and you agree to send it - that is different...no one is using the services of paypal to complete a transaction and then expecting Paypal to refund any money if the item is never mailed or gets lost. If you pay by check/money order, I'd still suggest requesting D/C and insurance and paying for it yourself...it only costs a little extra.

Also, I'm not saying all transactions are the same - many are different than just selling and buying a pin, and each may require different payment or trading forms. All I am saying if you pay using Paypal and mark the payment as a "gift" - do not expect Paypal to cover your money if your pin never arrives. The buyer is taking a chance...

Everyone wants a great deal and to save a little money - "free shipping" (buyer) and "no extra fees" (seller). Nothing is Free, and you could very well end up with Nothing.

 

[mom24k9s]

I assume that we're only talking about people who have their bank accounts linked to paypal. If you send a "gift" or whatever using paypal with your credit card you still have your credit card protections. At least that's been my experience. I once had a problem with a "gift" transaction and, while paypal wouldn't cover it, I got my money back through my AmEx.

 

[pook-a-lu-le]

I assume that we're only talking about people who have their bank accounts linked to paypal. If you send a "gift" or whatever using paypal with your credit card you still have your credit card protections. At least that's been my experience. I once had a problem with a "gift" transaction and, while paypal wouldn't cover it, I got my money back through my AmEx.

Credit cards are good to use, although a fee is charged to the seller when they accept them - even when it's linked to your paypal acct...(some sellers are even requiring a buyer to pay for this fee, also). If you get any kind of protection from paypal, credit cards, or direct insurance, someone somewhere pays for it, and it's not free. As I said before - Nothing is Free! and this is what many people don't seem to understand.

for example: You go to Wal Mart and use your credit card to pay for a buggy full of items - $228.67 - you, the buyer, only pays $228.67 but the merchant (Wal Mart) is charged 4% of $228.67 or $9.15 when they accept your card...why? because the credit card company is collecting fees for the use of their card, and for their protection to the card holder if an item is broken, plus protection to the merchant that your payment is good. Protection? - it is always paid by someone...

 

[dizneydogs]

actually paypal doesn't really protect the buyer unless the transaction is through ebay. Believe me I have been there done that and they sided with the seller since it wasn't through ebay (personal purchases which weren't marked gift, etsy, and ecrater) and it didn't matter what the type of payment was. The only way to really protect yourself with paypal payments is to pay by credit card that way you can always dispute the charge with your credit card company.

 

[imatronaholic]

This is a very interesting discussion. I knew some of this information, but not all. Most transactions go through smoothly - eBay and DPF - but like is mentioned above, anything can happen along the way. :sad:

 

[starry_solo]

Plus there is a limited time within which to dispute a transaction through PayPal (45 days from date of sending $). I purchased an item on eBay (pretty expensive too) and it died after the 45 days time limit was up. I contact the manufacturer for assistance and find it is COUNTERFEIT! I'm like, what?!

So, too late to dispute it through PP and EB. Fortunately, I paid with credit card...or so I thought. I dispute it through them, get a conditional credit, which is then reversed because the seller claims I never contacted them. Of course I did and never heard back from them to get an address to send item back to! So, then the credit card company tells me, try again. I try again. Finally, after many attempts, I get a response (btw, it's too late to even get the information from EB because the listing has "expired" [it apparently expires/gets deleted after so many days]).

I send it back, provide the information to the credit card company, no response from seller (no refund). So, I'm out my $160, plus $40 for postage to return item with insurance (total of $200). I write to the credit card company AGAIN and no response. One Better Business Bureau complaint later, get my $160 back from the credit card company with a letter saying the "conditional credit" (which was reversed) is now a permanent credit. Oh, but they decline to give me back the postage (okay, so now I'm only out $120 which is better than $160).

 

[pook-a-lu-le]

actually paypal doesn't really protect the buyer unless the transaction is through ebay. Believe me I have been there done that and they sided with the seller since it wasn't through ebay (personal purchases which weren't marked gift, etsy, and ecrater) and it didn't matter what the type of payment was. The only way to really protect yourself with paypal payments is to pay by credit card that way you can always dispute the charge with your credit card company.

I have purchased several pins off this board and off the internet also...both had some bad sellers and I never received my pins. But, because I had paid using paypal without marking it as a gift (or anything other than purchase of goods), I was refunded the entire amount plus my shipping. I don't think what you are saying holds true most of the time for paypal because they have always come through for me and they state this in their ads - it's not just for ebay purchases. In fact, the only bad feedback on this board I have ever left was for one of the transactions and PP refunded all my money.
Not sure why you had such a misfortune to not be covered by paypal...

 

[dizneydogs]

I am just repeating what paypal told me as why they ruled in favor of the seller I guess YMMV