Shark Translator Needed

[IsaacandAmanda]

But it's a conflict between you and Applecore and should not be discussed outside the two of you, I think.

 

[markheardjr]

Other members asked who because they saw how lopsided the request was and they don't want to waste their time either. He is defensive for obvious reasons. I'll post the whole email and let the other members decide. But just his "laying it on thick" move was enough to turnoff a few to future trades.

 

[IsaacandAmanda]

Makes sense. I apologize.

 

[Applecore]

Funny, someone asked WHO it was and did I try to hide? Did I INTENTIONALLY leave out anything? I am new to this forum and see that there are those which will not keep things civil and look to smear someone in a heartbeat. Not cool.

If that means I lost people to trade with, oh well. My past trades speak for themselves, which is probably 20 or so in the last month alone.

 

[unibear]

Back on track: The only way to determine "fair-market value" is to go to a "fair market". For better or worse, eBay is the closest we have to a fair market. It's not perfect, and prices fluctuate, but it's about the only game in town to determine price.

Good luck for both of you to reach a trade (most likely with others) that each of you will find satisfying.

 

[TheGrimGrinner]

Let's keep tabs on the dirty laundry folks. If this is going to turn into a mudslinging match it will be closed. If you have any questions or concerns, please PM a mod. Thanks!!

 

[PrincessBecky]

The only way to determine "fair-market value" is to go to a "fair market". For better or worse, eBay is the closest we have to a fair market. It's not perfect, and prices fluctuate, but it's about the only game in town to determine price.

+1

Like it or not, eBay is really the only place you can obtain a current value for a pin. Regardless of what a trader "thinks" it is worth, or what you personally paid for a pin, the other trader can only fairly go off the eBay value. You can't expect a person to value a pin at $75 when they could buy it now on eBay for $40.

If you break it down to current values...

Cool set, LE 250, original price $74.95, but guess what? You can buy it now on eBay for $39.95 plus free shipping, and it comes in perfect condition with original packaging. So regardless of what you may have paid for this set, it has unfortunately gone down in value. This pin set also has a meager 16 people wanting, and does not feature super-popular characters, which may have attributed to it's current lower value.

Yes, they may have been GWP's, but they are also LE 300, and feature popular characters. All are currently selling for around $20.

Again, popular characters, currently selling for around $20. This pin is a LE 150, which also points out the fact that sometimes LE size is not as important as current value. The GWP pins are selling for the same prices (and sometimes more) than the LE 150.

Popular characters, LE 1000, also selling for around $20. Once again points out the fact that LE value doesn't always matter, and this LE 1000 is selling for the same price as the other lower LE's.

LE 300, not so popular character, was already disclosed that this pin was in a sale bin, currently selling for around $7-10.

Rack-style pins. Worth a few dollars each.

Older pin. Decent trades/wants ratio. Recently sold for $6-$10.


So that would be a $40 set for roughly $110-120 worth of pins.


Applecore, you said you like to "trade for fun not profit"...I think all of us are here because we enjoy pins and the fun of trading, but we also would like a "fair" return on our investment. I am sorry that your set has been de-valued over time, I have bought a few sets for $35 that ended up at the Disney Outlets for $10-$15. It is a hard pill to swallow, but pins fluctuate in value over time...sometimes they increase and sometimes they decrease. You may still value your set at $75, but it will be hard for others to agree with that value if they do a little research.

 

[Applecore]

Well according to Ebay, there are sets selling from $40-75, and individual pins adding up to $90 or more. I find it interesting and convenient that only the low value is discussed and an average value is not factored in.

And as I stated in a previous post, I gave Mark a detailed explanation of my thinking, which he completely left out initially in order to slam me down. That's OK. I only know a couple folks in here face to face, and they know my nature and how I trade.

Dirty laundry? You better believe it...lol

 

[PrincessBecky]

Well according to Ebay, there are sets selling from $40-75, and individual pins adding up to $90 or more.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the only pins I can see that have actually sold recently from this set are:

-Just the Mickey pin for $17.90 (including shipping)

-The entire set for $37.19 (including shipping)

It doesn't matter what a pin is listed for, if it doesn't sell it is not it's fair-market value. Anyone can list a pin for whatever price they like, but if it doesn't sell, it doesn't matter.

And in my opinion, the individual pin prices shouldn't factor into the trade either, because you were trying to trade it as a set.

I find it interesting and convenient that only the low value is discussed and an average value is not factored in.

I was factoring the average selling price for all of the pins, not their "low" value. Your set has only sold for $37.19, and is listed for $39.99 buy it now, and $74.95 buy it now...which one would you buy?

 

[dizneelovers]

For my 2 cents. it either should be cost v. cost or value v. value....but it drves me nuts when someone offer my cost vs. their value (or perceived value)

 

[Applecore]

Along with the list, I also included this in my reply to Mark, which he conveniently left out, as well as other tasty tid-bits...

And now the method of my crazy thinking. The diorama is in a rather large box, so I have to spend the cost of a DSF pin to ship it, and it will go Priority Mail. It is a LE of 250 and originally cost $75. It is also un-opened and sitting in a box, still in new condition. I may be one pin over, but I think this is about equal on dollars and tradability.

Feedback?

Thanks!

Dave

 

[markheardjr]

Well according to Ebay, there are sets selling from $40-75, and individual pins adding up to $90 or more. I find it interesting and convenient that only the low value is discussed and an average value is not factored in.

And as I stated in a previous post, I gave Mark a detailed explanation of my thinking, which he completely left out initially in order to slam me down. That's OK. I only know a couple folks in here face to face, and they know my nature and how I trade.

Dirty laundry? You better believe it...lol

First of all, I did not break your anonymity, you did. I did not send a PM to any member with your info. I was only venting frustration for an obviously rediculous trade request. Most of the members agreed and you probably felt embarassed and only made it worse by saying it was you. Then you say I left things out to make it one sided and slame you down? I have not left out important information and if I meant to be malicious I would have posted your pinpics name straight away. I did not do this. I didn't even know you were a member of this forum. And if you were, I would have hoped you would have only learned how your trade was so far off base.

For full disclosure, here is the ENTIRE email chain with only the full names and email address removed for security purposes. I find it interesting that even you yourself explain your "Crazy thinking" in the 3rd or 4th email from the bottom. Is that the smoking gun you think I left out? Calling yourself crazy?


FYI, Start from the bottom and read up...

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:44 PM
To: Applecore
Subject: RE: EXT in Pics Trade Request

I've only been collecting a year. I don't get caught up in $400+ pins. The only one I've noticed that high is the recent UP Marquee for $500 which I will never get. I think you're a bit diluted though if you think you can offer a set of pins selling for $40 for a list of 6 $20+ pins. You have 3 LE250 pins. I have 3 LE300 Pin Trader Delights which should be about even. You try to devalue my pins by pointing out they are "GWP" but I don't care if they are GWP, WDI, CE, LE, OE, blah blah. I like what I like and I don't want to trade my 6 hard-to-finds for your 3 can-be-purchased-elsewhere pins.
-Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Applecore
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:41 PM
To: Heard, Mark E (AS)
Subject: RE: EXT in Pics Trade Request

Sounds good. You stick to Ebay where the sharks play. I'll just keep playing in the pond. Oh, I brought up the other pin because I was just curious. It goes on Ebay for about $400-950. Sounds like you are certainly in it for profit, not trading.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:23 PM
To: Applecore
Subject: RE: EXT in Pics Trade Request

I break things down into value of eBay ended items and trade accordingly.
I'm not sure why you brought up 76478. That pin was $55 to begin with but if it's value is only $40 then ok. CM's get a decent size discount and not every pin costs the price plus tax. I'm an AP and get 20% off. So a $75 pin with tax at todays rate for me would cost $65. CM's probably only pay $50.
Pin Trader Delights cost $12 plus tip but are instantly worth a $20 pin or a LE1000 from last year at a minimum. You asked for way too many hard to find / sold out pins and then when I call you out you get defensive about it. If a pin is LE100 and from 2003 but is ugly as heck and only sells for $5 I'm not going to trade you a PTD straight up. Trades have to be fair and you have to use Some scale to judge value. Some use LE size, some use age, character, etc. I use eBay ended items or current prices for buy-it-now. And you 3 Diorama pins are worth maybe 2 pin trader delights and a random LE1000 from this or last year. Sorry dude, shop it elsewhere.

-----Original Message-----
From: Applecore
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:17 PM
To: Mark
Subject: RE: EXT in Pics Trade Request

Yup, just like someone tried to tell me my 76478 was only worth $40 at PTN.
I have 3 of those and they are NOT on Ebay. Nope, I paid over $82 for my
76484 including tax, shipping will be another $12 so there's $94. I figured four of those were fodder pins and that could have been negotiated away. The six LE's were not. So based on capital investment, I would break even, i.e.
fair trade. If you are in it for profit, stick to Ebay please. I trade, not sell.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:01 PM
To: Applecore
Subject: RE: EXT in Pics Trade Request

Regardless of GWP, they are selling for over $20 each. They are Pin Trader Delights LE300, not your average PWP for $3. I'm not an idiot and you appear more shark like...

-----Original Message-----
From: Applecore
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:45 PM
To: Mark
Subject: RE: EXT in Pics Trade Request

That's fine. Thanks anyway. Oh, the first three pins are GWP, I am not a Guppy.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:25 PM
To: Applecore
Subject: RE: EXT in Pics Trade Request

You're about 5 pins too many. This Diorama can be purchased brand new in the box on eBay for $40 plus shipping. The first 3 pins on you list are currently selling for the combined amount of roughly $70. I think we are just way too far off.
-Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Applecore
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:08 PM
To: Mark
Subject: RE: EXT in Pics Trade Request

Hey Mark,

You seem to be local, especially if you already have the perfume bottles which have not been released yet...lol

Forget the 51112, here is what I will take for my 76484:

90173
90121
89966
89637
89538
84393
74737
37232
8084
56875

And now the method of my crazy thinking. The diorama is in a rather large box, so I have to spend the cost of a DSF pin to ship it, and it will go Priority Mail. It is a LE of 250 and originally cost $75. It is also un-opened and sitting in a box, still in new condition. I may be one pin over, but I think this is about equal on dollars and tradability.

Feedback?

Thanks!

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:32 AM
To: Applecore
Subject: RE: EXT in Pics Trade Request

Are there any other pins I have that you want? I am open to trading 51112 but you'd have to find more pins I have.
-Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Applecore
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:28 AM
To: Mark
Subject: EXT in Pics Trade Request

** Know how to trade safely on the Internet!! Request references,
** use the Reference Center at dizpins.com, and read the guidelines
** at: http://www.dizpins.com/mmc/Trading.html

You have received this e-mail because another member of PinPics.com has offered, via the automated Trade Assistant, to trade you one of the Disney pins that you indicated you want.

If you do not know why you have received this message, please send mail to:
info@pinpics.com

To view information or pictures of the pins mentioned below, visit our site
at: http://www.pinpics.com/


Member specified the following note(s) pertaining to one or more of the trade requests below:
* Only trading for a multiple and equitable type of trade


dnewell offers markheardjr this pin: Pin 76484 (DLR - Dateline: Disneyland
1955 - Rocket to the Moon Diorama Set) In return for one of these pins:
Pin 51112 (DLR - Where Dreams Come True - Disneyland Resort - Storybook
Logo)


If you do not wish to make any trades at this time, please send a courtesy reply so that the sender knows you received the trade request.

--
Best Regards,
The Pin Pics Team http://www.pinpics.com/

 

[movingthestars]

"Oh, I brought up the other pin because I was just curious. It goes on Ebay for about $400-950."

Applecore, I think you might be looking at, as PrincessBecky said, the price on ebay that people are ASKING for the pins involved in this discussion, not what anyone has ever actually PAID for these pins. This includes the set this thread was originally concerning too. Even the $40 one has been listed several times recently with no buyers.

As for shipping, I pay (a lot) extra for tracking when I ship rare pins and a lot of times let people ship the stuff for me in America where a DC# is like an extra $1 unless I need the pins I am getting for trading, which sucks for me but I never thought that I should be factoring that extra money into the trade. Do people do this? I am honestly curious if other people are thinking that shipping costs should be factored into your trade if you send heavier stuff or whatever?

 

[Merryweather]

.... but I never thought that I should be factoring that extra money into the trade. Do people do this? I am honestly curious if other people are thinking that shipping costs should be factored into your trade if you send heavier stuff or whatever?

IMO if a trader agrees to a trade, they should also assume the responsibility and the associated costs for sending the pins in a safe, secured way including DC and insurance of necessary. If they do not want to foot the bill, all it takes is a simple "thanks for your offer, but I will politely decline." or something like that. No need to negotiate about shipping costs really.

 

[TheGrimGrinner]

In the past, I've seen requests for an extra pin or two for extra bulky or heavy items. Communication is always key. If you think that shipping will be lopsided for one trader over another, it's not inappropriate to ask for compensation. Just needs to be talked about.

 

[PrincessBecky]

"Oh, I brought up the other pin because I was just curious. It goes on Ebay for about $400-950."

Applecore, I think you might be looking at, as PrincessBecky said, the price on ebay that people are ASKING for the pins involved in this discussion, not what anyone has ever actually PAID for these pins. This includes the set this thread was originally concerning too. Even the $40 one has been listed several times recently with no buyers.

I was JUST going to say this. I may be wrong, but I believe he is looking at the asking prices and not the selling prices.

For those that do not know how to check competed eBay listings:

-Search for something
-Click on "Advanced"
-Check the box that says "Completed Listings"
-The results in RED are auctions that have ended, but did not sell.
-The results in GREEN actually sold for that price.

 

[Applecore]

On the shipping item, I have had about half the folks I trade with bring up the cost to me. As far as trading in general, same item different trader:

79248 C&D
88587 Tink Cali
90020 MM Cali
88463 C&D Reel
87013 Snow White
64342 Vote 4 Chip
64343 Vote 4 Dale

I am probably pushing the limit, but I saw the Snow White and **censored**

Since you want only the pins, I will trash the OUTER box but not the background, yes/no?

Just let me know how greedy I am. I can live without Snow White…

Thanks!

Why such a difference between Mark and this guy? Because Mark could of taken off the UP and Cheshire DSF/GWP pins but didn't bother to even mention it. He merely said 5 pins off and didn't say which ones.

 

[supertank]

Well according to Ebay, there are sets selling from $40-75, and individual pins adding up to $90 or more. I find it interesting and convenient that only the low value is discussed and an average value is not factored in.

Well, you ought to be looking at what people are willing to pay for the pins, not what people are selling them for. I can list a hidden mickey on eBay for $100. Does that make it WORTH $100? No. The completed listings for this diorama have two BINs that ended without any takers at $39.95, and one auction where the winning (and only) bid was $29.99. The valuation of $40 is even too high for this set... it's barely worth $30 now. The 'average value' you refer to can only be based on one sale, and it's 25% less than what everyone else has been saying.

As for the individual pins... again, the listed price doesn't matter if nobody's willing to buy it. The Mickey pin and the Minnie pin each sold for $14.99 once in the last several months. The Pluto pin has not been sold. So there's that $30 value that people are willing to pay for these pins again.

The person you're trying to trade with would be better served selling 2 of the 11 pins you requested, and then purchasing the set than trading for it. That's the reason they're surprised by your request. Your valuation of the pins does not match up with the what most people value the pins at. And that's fine; you'll have a hard time making many trades, though.

 

[bretu]

I should stay out of this but I can't. It is wrong to call someone out on this board and call them a shark because you don't like there trade offer. IT IS PIN TRADING!!!! If you don't like their offer just say no thank you and move on. Also remember sometimes you get trade requests from children and new people to trading. Please be nice to them. THEY ARE OUR FUTURE!!!
Just say no thank you and move on.
P.S. You never know when you might meet someone later on and you turn in to good friends. Don't burn your bridges this is a small community.

 

[creativextremeties]

I should stay out of this but I can't. It is wrong to call someone out on this board and call them a shark because you don't like there trade offer. IT IS PIN TRADING!!!! If you don't like their offer just say no thank you and move on. Also remember sometimes you get trade requests from children and new people to trading. Please be nice to them. THEY ARE OUR FUTURE!!!
Just say no thank you and move on.
P.S. You never know when you might meet someone later on and you turn in to good friends. Don't burn your bridges this is a small community.

+1 ...all of this type of posting has had me want to end my time on Pin Forums in genneral. It's just sad.

Hear No EVIL, See No EVIL, Speak No EVIL, And...................................

POST NO EVIL!
Just My 2 cents again <3

 

[Merryweather]

Hear No EVIL, See No EVIL, Speak No EVIL, And...................................

POST NO EVIL!
Just My 2 cents again <3

Laz ...:hugs:

 

[creativextremeties]

Laz ...:hugs:

<3 <3 <3

 

[Psycho Pixie]

really think its time the MOD closed the thread.

 

[markheardjr]

I should stay out of this but I can't. It is wrong to call someone out on this board and call them a shark because you don't like there trade offer. IT IS PIN TRADING!!!! If you don't like their offer just say no thank you and move on. Also remember sometimes you get trade requests from children and new people to trading. Please be nice to them. THEY ARE OUR FUTURE!!!
Just say no thank you and move on.
P.S. You never know when you might meet someone later on and you turn in to good friends. Don't burn your bridges this is a small community.

I didn't call him out. He outed himself. And if you read the email trail above, you will see I politely declined as soon as I saw his want list was outrageous. He was the one that started the tyraid about sharks and pin values. I calmly replied to each until I had my fair share. He continues to refer to Pin Trader Delights as "just GWP" pins. He inferred I was a shark when he replied back to my decline as "I am not a guppy." Ok, I'm not a shark either thank you very much, move along now.

As to his reply above, he is stating what he requested with someone else for these pins. Good for him if he gets those 7 pins. I doubt he will get all 7 and good for him if he does. He deals in the absolutes of highest ASKING price of a pin and he's pointing out he asked for too much with this other trade also. He is much more sharklike with asking for more than he knows he deserves. Just caveating it doesn't make it less sharky.

Not too mention he also solicites feedback after his original request. I offer feedback, he doesn't like it and snaps back. Also, he even notes that we are local, so why would he then talk about huge shipping amounts and not just offer to meet? I don't get it at all.

I would close this thread but I think I can only close BST ads, not forum threads.

 

[suzanneb]

to me, Ebay prices are like the STOCK MARKET...UP, DOWN, UP, DOWN...
I prefer to use original retail price PLUS trades/wants on Pin Pics
However, NO ONE price/value evaluation system is perfect