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Should DPF require that sellers take payment as a 'purchase' rather than a 'gift'?

Should DPF require that sellers take payment as a 'purchase' rather than a 'gift'?

  • Yes

    Votes: 38 42.7%

  • No

    Votes: 36 40.4%

  • Yes for presales but not for others

    Votes: 15 16.9%
  • Total voters
    89
Should DPF require that sellers take payment as a 'purchase' rather than a 'gift'?
imp

imp

Evil Fairy
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This has come up in other threads lately, so I've been thinking that a discussion focussed on this particular issue might be useful.

My own opinion is that payment as a 'purchase' should be required for DPF sales, but others may have valid reasons for believing otherwise.

Thread rules:

- NO mention or reference to particular sellers/buyers/releases/etc. ....the purpose of this thread is to discuss the pros and cons generally of requiring payment as a 'purchase'.
- NO personal attacks. "I disagree with you because..." is OK; "You're saying that because you're an idiot/shark/country-music-fan/etc." is not OK.

 
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I don't even know what paying with "purchase" means?
Ever since the first time I used paypal, people told me to send as gift, and to pay the fees, because otherwhise they wouldn't get the entire amount back.

What happens when you use "purchase"?
 
The only members I send payment to as gift are those I trust, but perhaps I should start paying as goods regardless. It's only a small fee to seller/buyer.
I think there is a rule somewhere that we should send as goods/ purchase.
 
moorhunhe said:
I don't even know what paying with "purchase" means?
Ever since the first time I used paypal, people told me to send as gift, and to pay the fees, because otherwhise they wouldn't get the entire amount back.

What happens when you use "purchase"?
Click to expand...

When you use 'purchase' the buyer can open a complaint with Paypal if the goods are not received or are not as described. Payment as a 'gift' does not have this option.

Also, when you pay as 'purchase' the seller pays the fees, but when you pay as 'gift' the buyer pays the fees.
 
When people are only able to ask to pay as "purchase" they will probably add that fee-amount into their prices.

Thanks for explaining :)
 
moorhunhe said:
When people are only able to ask to pay as "purchase" they will probably add that fee-amount into their prices.

Thanks for explaining :)
Click to expand...

Yes, the seller could build the fee into their prices. I'm not sure if the seller pays higher fees where the Paypal purchase is funded by a credit card (rather than a bank account)...if so, the seller could say that purchases with credit card must pay x% more, to cover the extra fees.
 
I am all for protecting myself from sales gone sour, and hence "purchase" is a great idea for this.

But, this is directly from Paypal's page:

Under the legislation, we'll report to the IRS the total payment volume received by US account holders whose payments exceed both of these levels in a calendar year:

  • US$20,000 in gross payment volume from sales of goods or services in a single year
  • 200 separate payments for goods or services in the same year
Click to expand...

and I think the gift tax exemption for an individual is right now $13,000 (might be wrong)

As much as a safety issue for buyers, it is also an accounting concern for sellers with high volume.

If you think about it, for people who take payment as gift, it is about $1084 in sales per month to reach that gift tax limit - and I am guessing that Paypal would monitor that.

It did not really work out for this release due to the limitations DSF imposed, but if one were to sell 4 sets of BT pins at $300 per set, that monthly quota would be finished.

Disclaimer: I am in no way an expert in tax issues, just simple internet reading.
 
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I just enter the amount in the gift option to find out what the fees would be and then add on whatever it says to what I'm paying. Then put the payment through as a purchase. Then the seller is happy they have the full amount and I'm happy that I'm protected though PayPal :)
 
From the Sales Forum rules:

"All sales and purchases are at the risk of the individuals involved. Please be certain that you make safe and intelligent secure payment and shipping arrangements. DisneyPinForum.com is not responsible/liable for any pin(s) advertised for sale in this forum, the integrity of that product's representation, any sales that go uncompensated, or the shipment or transport of any items."

Going along with that, it is not up to the forum to regulate how people request payment. It is up to the individual to make sure that they feel comfortable with the way that they pay for the pin. If you don't feel safe sending money as gift, don't do it.
 
Merryweather said:
I am all for protecting myself from sales gone sour, and hence "purchase" is a great idea for this.

But, this is directly from Paypal's page:



and I think the gift tax exemption for an individual is right now $13,000 (might be wrong)

As much as a safety issue, it is also an accounting concern for sellers with high volume.

If you think about it, for people who take payment as gift, it is about $1084 in sales per month to reach that gift tax limit - and I am guessing that Paypal would monitor that.

It did not reallywork out for this release due to the limitations DSF imposed, but if one were to sell 4 sets of BT pins at $300 per set, that monthly quota would be finished.

Disclaimer: I am in no way an expert in tax issues, just simple internet reading.
Click to expand...

True, but when you think about it, the rule is there so that the IRS can tax sellers' profits. In my view, facilitating possible tax evasion isn't a good basis for a policy. ....and I am not saying that anyone here is doing that, I'm just arguing the general merits of 'purchase' vs. 'gift'.
 
YoSoyAhPuch said:
From the Sales Forum rules:

"All sales and purchases are at the risk of the individuals involved. Please be certain that you make safe and intelligent secure payment and shipping arrangements. DisneyPinForum.com is not responsible/liable for any pin(s) advertised for sale in this forum, the integrity of that product's representation, any sales that go uncompensated, or the shipment or transport of any items."

Going along with that, it is not up to the forum to regulate how people request payment. It is up to the individual to make sure that they feel comfortable with the way that they pay for the pin. If you don't feel safe sending money as gift, don't do it.
Click to expand...

I agree that DPF doesn't currently require payment as a 'purchase', but there is no reason why they can't create that requirement...the issue here is whether they should.
 
I always give my buyers in the USA both options.

jaxyann just an FYI that the fees for gifts are lower than for purchases, not sure if you knew that or not.

And yes, if DPF doesn't allow gift payments then my awesome sales will probably have to be made elsewhere as I certainly would hit that limit but my net on each sale is VERY, VERY low. Sadly I would be forced to pay 31% or so of my GROSS sales (I buy from places that don't give receipts like craigslist, flea markets, garage sales etc etc) so yeah...no more awesome jadestarr sales if this is enacted. :(

Feedback, USE it. Low # of feedback? Pay only as goods, this is the way I purchase off dpf.
 
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I think it should be up to the buyer. If they want to pay by sending a gift they should be able to. If they want to pay as a "purchase" they should be able to and cover the fees. Since there are now fees attached to gifts unless you are using your bank account or paypal credit as the funding source, buyers should be paying fees regardless. However, I say leave it up to the buyer. If I trust the seller, I just pay as a gift because there is usually no fees.
 
jadestarr said:
I always give my buyers in the USA both options.

jaxyann just an FYI that the fees for gifts are lower than for purchases, not sure if you knew that or not.

And yes, if DPF doesn't allow gift payments then my awesome sales will probably have to be made elsewhere as I certainly would hit that limit but my net on each sale is VERY, VERY low. Sadly I would be forced to pay 31% or so of my GROSS sales so yeah...no more awesome jadestarr sales if this is enacted. :(

Feedback, USE it. Low # of feedback? Pay only as goods, this is the way I purchase off dpf.
Click to expand...

Sorry, this is a side issue, but I'm curious...taxable income is generally based on NET profits (ie. Gross sales less all costs, including what you paid for the product, shipping materials, paypal fees, etc.)...is there some different rule that applies to this type of sales?
 
pargani said:
I agree that DPF doesn't currently require payment as a 'purchase', but there is no reason why they can't create that requirement.
Click to expand...

I completely understand that people want to be safe in their purchases, especially with the stuff that has gone down recently (and I hope you all get it straightened out!). But this is a rule they've had set up for awhile. Its just my opinion, but shouldn't be up to the forum to regulate, there needs to be some self regulation here on DPF. And that goes for all threads, be they sale threads, discussion threads, anything really. We all want a secure and safe forum, but with more and more regulations, it gets hard for the mods to enforce them all. They have a hard enough job as it is. We need to make sure, as individuals on the forum, to only go into transactions that we feel comfortable with. If someone is requesting payment as gift, it doesn't hurt to say, "I'd rather pay as a purchase instead." There is that slight increase in price, but if you are willing to pay it to keep your money and pins safe, go for it.

I mean, I also disagree with you because you're a country music fan! Psh! (hehehe, I like that you put that in the starting thread! But can we poke fun of someone if they like gregorian chants?)
 
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jadestarr said:
I always give my buyers in the USA both options.

jaxyann just an FYI that the fees for gifts are lower than for purchases, not sure if you knew that or not.

And yes, if DPF doesn't allow gift payments then my awesome sales will probably have to be made elsewhere as I certainly would hit that limit but my net on each sale is VERY, VERY low. Sadly I would be forced to pay 31% or so of my GROSS sales (I buy from places that don't give receipts like craigslist, flea markets, garage sales etc etc) so yeah...no more awesome jadestarr sales if this is enacted. :(

Feedback, USE it. Low # of feedback? Pay only as goods, this is the way I purchase off dpf.
Click to expand...


OH NO! WE DON'T WANT LOSE THESE AMAZING SALES!! ...I always assumed you were like a CM or something...where are you finding so much bulk?! Haha!

I agree though- maybe the rule shouldn't be NO gift payments at all, but if DPF were to enforce a rule, maybe it should be that the seller offers payment as gift (up to the buyer to take the risk if they don't want to cover the fees) OR as purchase, but with purchase the seller can ask the buyer to include $X to cover fees.

-Melanie
 
We have been on both sides of the coins, so we say that making an informed decision with each purchase is your best answer.

We have sold as gift to raise money for a grail and we have also bought as gift (and are continuing to do so, as we're buying a Belle pin really soon). One of us is naturally trustworthy, and the other is much more practical so when it came with dealing with another member (there is a thread already of him not giving out pins and people not getting answers), we were lucky enough to pay as goods so we could take "legal" action. We or well one of us paid as goods because of several things:
1. We did not know him.
2. He was leaving the forum, so if he didn't send anything, infractions/banning means nothing to someone leaving.

But for the most part, READ and GIVE USEFUL feedback and decide from there. If someone has stellar feedback (trades/selling), then you're most likely okay. If not, then don't even bother getting into that mess. We know that sometimes something bad happens with someone of good feedback, but it is really important that we all use the tools given to us and really comment on all things related to trade/selling (i.e. didn't answer PMs, took a long time to send out pin, etc).

Now, we are doing a game and we did payment as a 'gift.' To us, it is much much much more easier to do that than to deal with how much fees each member has to pay. It is not our interest to make things harder on an already hard process.

As for the goods comment, any DECENT person will allow you to send as goods or at least explain why he or she would not want to do. You are all dealing with people and if they are not working with you, then don't bother either. Just mention that you feel more comfortable sending as goods and that you'll gladly send more for the fee. Usually it is not much either way, though we only had to do that once for the member we mentioned above.


We have pictures of ourselves on here and we find that we are a HUGE minority. It is better to have people know who you are and know your comments as when they see you in person (they may!) they at least know who you are or are aware of it. It is so easy for anyone to sell, you literally have no idea who is behind that Disney picture. Not only that, but posting a picture of you on your profile makes it so that your comments stick to you and we think that would lessen the drama a bit as people will know who you are.


But back on topic, make a decision with each purchase, there is no black and white yes or no.
 
Sorry Pargani- I adjusted my original post. It's hard to get receipts at garage sales, flea markets and craigslist (or from previous eBayers), I pay in cash. I could write off my shipping supplies but that's it. I would definitely wind up losing money. Right now I only make about $.05-$.20 a pin in most cases.
 
I'm going to have to go with a "No" on this one. I don't think it's possible for DPF to regulate that and it should be the buyer's responsibility to either put all their faith into the seller or to protect themselves by not paying as a gift.

If anyone is doing enough volume to hit those tax marks, then they are essentially running a small business and should be subject to taxation.
 
YoSoyAhPuch said:
I completely understand that people want to be safe in their purchases, especially with the stuff that has gone down recently (and I hope you all get it straightened out!). But this is a rule they've had set up for awhile. Its just my opinion, but shouldn't be up to the forum to regulate, there needs to be some self regulation here on DPF. And that goes for all threads, be they sale threads, discussion threads, anything really. We all want a secure and safe forum, but with more and more regulations, it gets hard for the mods to enforce them all. They have a hard enough job as it is. We need to make sure, as individuals on the forum, to only go into transactions that we feel comfortable with. If someone is requesting payment as gift, it doesn't hurt to say, "I'd rather pay as a purchase instead." There is that slight increase in price, but if you are willing to pay it to keep your money and pins safe, go for it.
Click to expand...

+1

I feel like the mods have enough to worry about without adding the "purchase instead of gift" stipulation as well. And if a purchase goes sour, the mods can't really do anything for parties involved (except ban a suspicious/bad seller) anyways...they have to take the issue to PayPal or their credit cards, etc.

I have a sales thread where I ask people to pay as a gift or they pay the fees. If potential buyers look at my feedback I would *hope* they would feel comfortable purchasing from me...and if they want to pay the fees they can certainly do so. I personally feel like this option should be left up the the individual buyers and sellers...not something the mods need to be involved with. :)
 
Lamorak said:
I'm going to have to go with a "No" on this one. I don't think it's possible for DPF to regulate that and it should be the buyer's responsibility to either put all their faith into the seller or to protect themselves by not paying as a gift.

If anyone is doing enough volume to hit those tax marks, then they are essentially running a small business and should be subject to taxation.
Click to expand...

This! We do run a small business so all of our paypal transactions are subject to fee. If you are selling items so heavily that you reach the paypal limit, you should probably be making it a business account so there is no limit and all are protected.
 
We personally feel that it just varies by situation. I would never ask a person i trust on here to send me payment as a "goods" . But i guess for presales it would be fine (although presales need to be done with all together)

But in a situation where u are unfamiliar with a member or they have some negative feedback it could be prudent to do it the way you are suggesting.
 
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