Traders Vs. Sellers

I am going to get a lot of HATE on posting this, but I really do not care. I place pin trading and pin selling in two distinct categories.

Trading: The bartering of a pin or pins with others in order to further one's hobby and collection.

Selling: What one does to make money.

Yes, it IS good to sell pins you have bought in order to get money to buy other pins. Especially those which are no longer trading well. At least you get some of your money back and you can get newer, shinier and more collectible pins.

But also, take a look at this recent response from a 'trader' and I think you will see my frustration:


"Let me explain a little aboutmyself. I am not a collector but a business person. I do not trade even and Iwould definitely not trade down. I also don't take into consideration the factof trades vs wants or whether or not it is an open edition or a limited editionpin. I would never take advantage of those that are trying to have fun withDisney pins but I do try to recover the shipping costs which will alwaysinclude tracking."

The trade offered was a #45948 for a #88463. The trades are higher on the DSF, and even the AVERAGE price on the almighty Ebay value system is about the same.

My point is, trading should be just that. But if you are out to ONLY sell, then don't let the trading door hit you in the rump on the way out.

Oh, the trader whose reply I published is: *********** on PinPics. Who knows if they have a DPF alias.

Bring on the HATE...lol

So I guess the shortened version of that response is, "I will only trade with you for a horribly lopsided in my favor trade so that I may sell the pin you trade to me for more than I would be able to sell the pin I trade to you." Is that about right?

No hate from me on this....

I just started collecting/trading and I get multiple trade requests on PinPics asking for my POMH pins for open edition pins. When I look up these people's IDs on eBay they are just selling them. It's frustrating.

Applecore,
I don't think there will be any hate coming to you. As aways, I find your thread educational for us new collecters/traders and the 3rd type - buyers, lol! I think I'm shock the other trader was so open about his/her intention for the trade.

Cheers,
Eva

First off… the only thing I read with offense is the title: Traders vs. Sellers. I think you can honestly be both, not just one or the other.

That being said… few are rarely only ONE or the other. I can count on one hand, the traders I know who have never sold a pin. That is a rare category in itself.

Let me give you my scenario:

I started pin trading in late 1999. I was in school, on student loans. I was addict to the metal with orange stripes. My expenses were not just the cost of my collection and traders; it was the additional expense for the Annual Pass, the gas to get to the park, the food I eat when at the Park, and the high priced events I wanted to attend to get MORE PINS.

I discovered Ebay and started selling extras to justify the purchase of pins for my collection. The extra cash went to the other stuff mentioned (and keep my Dad from reminding me I was on Student Loans!).

After school was complete, my Ebay business thriving…and there was no reason to stop it…even though my career would earn me more money. I didn’t love my career, I loved my hobby. So, what did I do…I did both. I work part time on pins, and work part time in my career.

That is how I continued for the past 10 years. Which dominates in my life –trading or selling? Selling…but ONLY because I almost have every Tigger pin design that exists on the planet. I would love my trading to be more. but I don’t control how many Tiggers pins are released..

So, in the meantime...for me it is about the Treasure Hunt of pins in themselves. Yes, I sell a lot. But, I also trade….and those close to me, know I practically give stuff away to people when I know it for their collections. My sales permit me to buy more pins, help others with their collections, hire out of work pin traders, go to pin events and also allows me the flexibility in my other career to pick & choose what I work on (less stress).

I truly believe that if it weren’t for my love of the hobby, my business would not be successful. It should not be a detriment that I make a profit, especially when that profit results in overall good.

In summery… we all don’t fit into categories like “trader” or “seller.” If it were not for the secondary market, new traders would never have a chance finding parts of their collection (whether that is directly buying or trading with someone else who buys).

Can't believe they were so open about it!

I can understand why they're doing it as its clearly working some of the time and they are making money. I will admit that I've bought a few pins before from people on facebook for low prices when the pins were worth more to me than what I paid (they were also worth more in ebay terms but I was unaware of their value when I made an offer for them, don't hate me for underpaying as I didn't know!).

Sad to know that he is getting hold of peoples good pins just to make more cash but its their choice to trade with him as much as it is his

I have dealt and almost dealt again with **********..I will never deal with that MAN again!!he was a pain in my side and everywherelse I do not care to mention!



OOPS me bad for that

I got that exact response this morning for a TR... ********* counter offered, and it was a better deal for ME! Of course I took the trade! lol.

edit: the pin he wanted instead was one i have had on ebay for sale... for 2 months!!

I've had my run ins with Applecore, I think we're past that first fiasco now. But he still perplexes me sometimes on what he feels he needs to call out. That being said. I half agree with him and fully agree with Tiggernut. You can't argue with someone how they value a pin, especially if they use eBay. It is what it is, especially if you know what you're doing and how to search values.

I do sell pins to maintain the hobby. I pump more into it than I get out though. I am not in it for profit but to afford other wants on my list.

I agree there are a slimey few characters out there that are up to no good. Out to cheat people, artificially raise pin values, and other forms of skullduggery. I don't like those people anymore than you do. When they list a pin right away, have their friend shill bid it up to $50 and then list a bunch buy-it-now for $35 they are doing pin trading a diservice. Slime balls.

I also don't like the people that try to take advantage of newbies. I appreciate an honest trader that lets the newbie know their pin is way better and to pick something else out. I see the same thing in other hobbies. Once it gets out that there is money to be made the floodgates are opened. I used to collect Hotwheels and when everyone found out Treasure Hunts were worth money they did everything to get them. Wait at walmart until opening. Sneak in the stock rooms. Pay off employees, etc. All to make $20 on a car that cost them $1. I don't need money that bad but I still feel like I have a right to sell my extra set if I want. If I buy 4 or 5 sets and drag tons of people and kids to get more sets then that is not fair, but they waited so...

The more I trade and meet people the more dirty little secrets you find out. You also learn who to trade with and who to avoid.

Great feedback from both sides of the fence. Like i said before, I am not opposed to selling. We all know it usually creates funds for the next shiny/painted piece of metal being released. But the majority of people which sell DO wear two hats very well. When they are wearing their trade hat, they trade well. When it's time to switch hats, they make money.

It's just unfortunate that there are some real 'individuals' out there like this one that ruin the fun.

Here's my take on it. Like most I have sold pins, but for the most part it really requires a lot more work than it is worth. I can never understand why somebody will sell a $20 pin for $20 as so often is the case. Even if the buyer received the 20 percent annual pass discount they still paid $16 plus tax. Then by the time the selling fees are added there is maybe $1 to be made. This $1 doesn't even cover the cost to drive to the post office let alone the amount of time spent waiting in line for the pins. I also cannot understand the logic of sleeping over night at the DSF to get a few pins with the intent of selling them. If a person lives in Orange county it costs about $20 in gas to get to the DSF, $10-$15 for parking, and if they are there for 10 hours their "labor" costs would be about $150 to $250 assuming a pay rate of $15-$25 per hour earned if comparable time was spend working a normal job. An individual would have to make about $500 off pins to reach a break even point once the cost of the pins, sales taxes, "labor", seller fees, time spent managing the selling of pins (posting, shipping, email), gas, parking and all the rest of the costs involved were to be included. Selling pins is NOT A MONEY MAKER!!! with the exception for those who approach this as a business and have the same mentality as the individual described by Applecore. This, of course, appears to be offensive to those of us who are into this as a hobby, and granted, I have encountered my share of profiteers who I have felt to be pretty arrogant. I usually walk away and/or avoid this type of person. However, in their defense, there are those find the services of these sellers to be of value and have no problem with the "cost" of getting a particular pin and hence their success. If I don't have to spend 10 hours waiting in line to get a pin at DSF and can buy at $15 for $25 online because the seller hasn't figured out that their time has a value then I may perhaps be the benefactor after all. I get to spend 10 hours making $250 and they get to make $10.

The other benefit of selling pins, especially online, it that it establishes a real time market value for the items being traded thus allowing all of us to have a marker to trade from. Otherwise, it there weren't values established from the real world buying community, then how would ever know you have a valuable pin and could ask for more in a trade.

I should make one side note as a disclaimer. I am planning visit to California in two weeks so I can be there for both the Ariel PODM pin and the DSF Brave pins. It is easily going to cost me a lot more to make the trip that I could ever possibly recoup from getting the pins, but as most of us understand there is a lot more to it than what I can sell the pins for.

Disneypirate

all I see is ********* someone want to Pm me the name?

PeterYup said:

all I see is ********* someone want to Pm me the name?

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Yeah, me too! Someone PM me please!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

TiggerNut said:

Yes, I sell a lot. But, I also trade….and those close to me, know I practically give stuff away to people when I know it for their collections.

Click to expand...

I can testify to that, as well as to your true love for pins.

I think, overall, the gist of this is that no one minds when people sell pins, but everyone hates being taken for a ride. And that goes for trading, too.

I think people get mad at sellers when they hold pins "hostage" at insane values, BIN style. It's one of the reasons I only list auction style when I finally do decide to sell something- that way, I set my minimum, and let the buyers decide if it's worth it or not and whether or not they take it to extreme levels. Not that BIN prices can't be fair (or even an incredible deal). It's just that it's hard to get mad at anyone but yourself if you buy *auction* style and spend too much.

Mostly, I sell when I've acquired too many pins and I need to scale back, or when I can't seem to trade something, but it seems to sell just fine. But I *always* try to find pins that will "level up" over time, so I can trade for harder-to-get pins and such, or make a profit when selling. It might take years, but it's the only way I've been able to get some of my grails.

What's really funny is lately it's the *traders* trying to take me for a ride, not the sellers. I prefer fair and even trading AND buying- I'll do my best to give you the value you want, but you have to try and do the same for me...if not in this trade, then the next one we do together. This hobby is no fun when one party wanders off feeling cheated.

I would consider myself a trader and collector. I agree that if you need to put in a reasonable amount of effort into acquiring a pin, then there should be some compensation. If that compensation is beyond reason, that's where I have a problem. I can't sell pins for profit. Period.

Many of you cannot see this, as it's not really out there for the public, but I have this policy I need to abide by. This directly relates to purchasing pins or other related products.

Therefore, it is a violation of this policy to purchase merchandise with the intent to resell, exchange or trade for something of greater value.


I feel as long as we aren't destroying the hobby we seem so much in love with, then you're good in my book. And it's always up to personal discretion to choose who you deal with and don't deal with.