Why Can't Pin Collectors See the Obvious?

[destiny117]

Hi,

I cannot believe how many counterfeit pins are being bought right and left by pin collectors paying top dollar for some of these pins. Right now, the Costumed Stitch Dalmatian pin is selling for $87.38 BIN with free shipping and has a picture of it. All you have to do is zoom in and you can see pink paint near the ear, so mistake, and extra gold metal between his legs. And it is on a card, so this means nothing. Anyone can put a fake pin on a real card. If anyone cares to view this, isn't it obvious this is a scrapper or counterfeit pin?

Then there is the Stitch Blue Nude Masterpiece selling once again for a starting price of 99 cents. And the same seller has the HKDL Pin Trading Night Stitch pin starting at 99 cents. Both are known to have scrappers and counterfeits also, but are selling easily.

Can someone tell me why pin collectors keep buying from these sellers and not reporting them? I just wanted you guys to see a very obvious scrapper being sold for a lot by a seller with very good ratings. And more importantly, that having a card for the pin does not mean a thing. It upsets me that they are taking advantage of the pin trading community.

 

[HeatherFeather]

I really don't have an answer. The only thing I can think of is that they are very uninformed pin collectors? It really is a shame and rankles me to see people taken advantage of like this. Those buyers are going to be in for a rude awakening if they every try to sell or trade those pins to an informed pin trader.

 

[fluffycat1]

But how many of us had someone help us out with pin collecting? We were lucky we started collecting awhile ago (2000), before scrappers were becoming popular. We are not near the parks and we don't have a place to meet other traders. So if you're new to trading and away from the parks and want a certain character, then ebay is the place to get your pin fix. And look at how many new traders are joining us monthly. They were buying pins from some where else and are now becoming educated.

 

[destiny117]

Thanks for your input. I agree that these poor pin collectors are probably misinformed, but only a week ago, someone from this very forum was asking for a pin, under the Sale/Wanted posts, and clearly stated that they did not care if the pin they got was a scrapper. So I guess we have a mixture of uninformed and those who do not care, right?

The thing that kills me about these particular pins mentioned in my post is that it says on pinpics that scrappers and counterfeits are out there of these pins. Wouldn't you look for these obvious marks and conclude these are fake pins?

I buy from Ebay myself, and there are many great sellers out there who will not buy these pins directly from China and pass them off as the real thing and charge a fortune for some of them. Somehow, being that these are not pin lots, it seems even more deceiving to me, because the sellers know where they got the pins. I hope the rude awakening starts happening soon!

 

[unibear]

I just saw the Stitch as Dalmatian pin, and also saw it as an obvious counterfeit. To me it was the overall color--he is too dark and the difference in color between his body and belly is too great. In the real pin, those colors are closer to each other.

Regarding the Blue Nude, I have heard (someone contacted the seller and posted here earlier) that these pins actually have a DA hologram on it. If that is true, then counterfeits may become harder and harder to distinguish...

 

[PixarPerils]

I think you are right, Fluffy! Living a thousand miles away from a park usually means that you are completely lost until you stumble upon a forum such as this one.

As for myself, I was extremely lucky. Once I figured out that this whole Disney Pin Universe existed (quite by accident), I almost immediately just happened to stumble across a Pin Collector's Guide for sale on ebay for only a couple of dollars. It was a PDF file, written by a collector just like any one of you (in fact, it could have actually been one of you), that explained all about the hobby, including, the PinPics website, grails, scrappers/counterfeits, and even the evils of ebay (somewhat ironic, considering he himself was making money on the site). The ONLY thing that wasn't included, was info about online forum/communities such as DizPins (which was still around at that time). I went a year-and-a-half before I stumbled upon a forum, and even then it was only because there was a full page advertisement about it on PinPics, staring me right in the face.

So while people who visit the parks have the opportunity to help each other out, the rest of us have to figure it out on our own. And I imagine that not all of us are as lucky as I was, finding out about scrappers only a few days into collecting.

 

[destiny117]

Hi PixarPerils,
This post is not to blame the new pin collectors in any way. I totally understand that if you are nowhere near the parks, you are alienated from so many things, such as where to get information, what to do, how to do it, finding pins. We all had to go through that in some way. Like fluffycat1 says, she was lucky she started out when scrappers were not an issue. It took me a year and a half to even find out about pinpics, and this was living in Miami. Only when I found a place to trade at regularly, did I start to learn anything. I did not even know you could buy pins on ebay until another collector told me. So word of mouth travels fast. When we meet pin traders at the parks, we should mention scrappers and fakes. We do not want to scare them away from the hobby, so we do not do our job. If we took the time to explain it to those we meet and are unaware of these things, we could cut down a lot of it. I get it, you are in Texas, and yeah, this is hard, especially because pin traders there have no way to learn about the forums. But, don't most pin traders list pins on pinpics? There is info on most scrapped pins right on the description of the pin. I do get that when one starts out, they will get scammed, over and over by sellers selling fake pins, as well as sharks. It happens to all of us even after having experience. I want to draw attention to this seller to show everyone how some fakes are obvious and also to how having cards do not matter anymore, unless you like collecting the pins on the card to keep them that way.

UNIBEAR, You got my point completely. And that is the main reason for this post. I am trying to show everyone that a pin can look bad and yet be bought. Also, the fact that this seller has it on a card means that anyone can take a fake pin and put it on a good card. The card is not the factor in determining whether a pin is fake or not. And now there are holograms on fake pins. How scary is that?

 

[karkura]

I think this is just like anything else. There are fake designer purses on ebay, fake electronics on ebay, fake antiques on ebay. Everything has been faked. I remember that I needed to purchase a memory card and I wanted a sandisk. Come to find out that there are fakes being sold on ebay with the brand names such as sandisk, kingston, sony, etc! We are all being suckered for everything, not just pins. The key to avoiding this is research and buying smart. But even then we can miss something.
You can't fault buyers. If they don't do the research before buying they will not know.

 

[destiny117]

Karkura,
Unfortunately, this is so true. I guess there is no stopping them, so should we even try? I am getting so depressed with the whole scrapper/counterfeit thing, and am trying to make a difference, but honestly, it is making me sick, really sick, because I am getting headaches, and anxiety, all over this stuff.

Then when you try to inform people, they take on the defensive attitude and do not get the point. I have told so many people that the pins they are trading are fakes, and they have told me to my face that they know and do not care, because they already bought them. Then there are those that I have warned about the cheap pin lots and they still do it.

I get the ones that have no clue, but I am running into too many that actually know that scrappers and fakes are ruining our hobby and they do not care. As long as they turn their fake into a good pin, that is all they care about. When somene buys a pin that is so obviously counterfeited or scrappered, they have to know something is not right though, don't you think? Well, maybe not. Who knows?

I am just saying that I am encountering a lot of people that buy a pin like the one I am referring to and then are surprised that the pin is a fake. What made them think it was a fake after they got it and not before they got it?

Oh well, I appreciate all of the great responses and points of views, and I think I am going to give up on trying to point stuff out. It just upsets me more than not.

 

[carolynhill]

Sometimes I think that people don't look at the pins carefully or read the descriptions before they buy. They're in a pin-frenzy, or they feel bad about something in life and are just buying pins as shopping therapy, so they just click the Buy It Now or put in a bid without doing research.

 

[destiny117]

Hi Carolyn,
That is an entirely different point of view. That happens to many of us at different times in our lives. It does feel good when we get our new pins, or get that pin we needed to complete a series or set. I just wish we could all do this without the possibility of getting scammed. My wish will probably never come true, but I am still wishing it.

 

[breadnbutterflies]

you seem to be forgetting that educated pin collectors also buy fakes on the site that must not be named.they do this for one reason to pass them off as legit pins to newbies and tourists at the parks.sharks are one of the many downfalls in the trading community.and there seems to be a never ending flow of them popping up all the time.greed is a terrible thing in our pin world,and its destroying trading.

 

[HeatherFeather]

Maria,
I see your point and it IS frustrating. One of the things that bothers me about scrappers/counterfeits is that there have been some pins that I liked and wanted for my collection. I saw listings for them on eBay and then looked at pinpics only to find out that there are known fakes.. Once this happens, it pretty much totally diminishes my want for that pin. I mean, even if I buy it on a card, how do I know that is the pin that came on the card? I really won't even consider buying a pin from eBay once I know there are fakes and am extremely hesitant to trade for one.

Overall, I really like buying pins on eBay but am very very careful about what I buy and whom I buy it from. I just couldn't bring myself ever to knowingly buy a fake either for my own collection or to trade. I am sure the people paying top dollar for the fake high end pins must not know. Even if they wanted a pin badly and knew it was a fake, I can't see anyone paying that much for it.

As far as people not caring, that is also pretty frustrating for me as well. I am a member of disboards which is a large Disney oriented discussion board. Almost every week there is someone on there asking about pin trading for an upcoming trip, usually for their child. Someone always tells them to go buy lots of pins on eBay. Then someone else will step in and point out to the vast majority of eBay lots are scrappers/fakes. Then a bunch of people will come on there and say THEY did it and it didn't matter and the CM's would trade anyway. So they totally know they are dropping garbage on the CM's lanyards and they just don't care. Usually there are some that wind up caring but the majority of people doing it don't...even when they are told and THAT drives me crazy. On the flip side, I would bet that most of the pins these kids trade for wind up being fakes as well so they are really probably winding up with exactly what they paid for.

I just don't think things will change until Disney figures out a way to crack down on the eBay sellers that sell these pins. I'm sure it CAN be done...look at how vigilant some other brands are about protecting their brands from fakes on eBay. I know Vuitton is, as is Rosetta Stone. They will not only have eBay shut down the auctions but will attempt to prosecute the sellers. In the end, it is up to Disney to protect their brand and up until now they either are unwilling or unable to do so.

 

[tinkerbelle1956]

This is why I'm selling most of my Tinker Bell collection !

 

[KT07]

the real way to stop this is.....when fbi/ice get involved. if you get pins to ur house from china...u dont pay tax...and than u sell and dont pay tax agian... the us wants its money.. thats way they dont want fakes of any kind over here. dont think ice or fbi cares about the brands or what we the fans think. its about $$$$$$. if they know they are getting cut out...they will step in.....cant wait for updat on the 3 dumb a$$ that got caught last time.. they were watched for 4 months....so know that it takes time...they are working on it...with or with out disneys help

 

[fuzzybunny]

Reading all these posts is very depressing, it makes you want to stop pin trading, not even purchase anything for fear of it being a fake/scrapper.
I look on ebay but think no do not buy they are ripping you off they are fake/scrappers.
So I have been getting my pins thru traders here. No I am not real knowledgeable but try to learn so we need to help each other out with this

 

[destiny117]

You have all been great and your different views have made me realize that I am not the only one getting sick over the scrapper/counterfeit situation. I have read where people complain, but never read where people get annoyed at others being taken for a ride, like this seller is doing on the particular pin in my first post. So it is great to see that many of us do not like to see others getting scammed either.

Breadnbutter, I do not forget for one second how educated collectors buy the fakes to pass them off as legit pins. Yet, this is another valid point. Sharks! What would we do without them? Maybe we would actually enjoy this hobby? And maybe newbies wouldn't be so afraid to approach traders? Greed is definitely the reason behind every issue we are talking about.

Heather Feather, I have seen pins I like too, and then had to let them go for fear of getting scrappers or fakes of these pins. It really ruins the excitement of finding a new pin, doesn't it? I think pin collecting is fun and used to be an honest hobby. I do not see the pride in owning a scrapper either, but I do know so many that prefer the scrapper to save money. And nothing will change one bit if Disney does not start to take more of an interest in this problem. They could start by going after the factories that are making these pins. That is not so hard to figure out if one cared, but I doubt if they do.

KT07, I wonder where our Fab 3 guys are now and what charges they actually incurred. I think the department of homeland security is going to be the ones that catch these guys, because they check the bags and boxes coming into the USA. They are the ones that noticed how heavy these bags were. Hopefully, they will catch many more of these crooks. After all, this is fraud and copyright infringement. What amazes me though is that sellers continue to sell these fake pins even after they know the consequences.

Today, Jeff from this forum, posted how he reported an ebay seller. Later on, he and I talked about this and it was one of the sellers that I am referring to. He managed to get the seller kicked out of ebay for now. Of course, this seller will start up with a new ID somewhere. Most sellers sell under various names, in case they get caught. So they are savvy and prepared to cheat the system. I wrote the seller selling the Costumed Stitch Dalmatian pin mentioned in my first post and told him this was a fake and he would be reported. What has he done about it 4 hours later? Not a thing! So I guess I will do something, but it is making me sick!

Fuzzybunny, all this talk gets you down and depressed for sure, but if we do not discuss it, and just plain overlook it, the situation will get worse by the day. Three guys were caught, and taken to jail for buying these pins from China and passing them off as real. One seller got banned from selling, thanks to Jeff from right here on this forum, and others are taking part by returning the counterfeit pins etc. So we are all trying to better the situation. All is not lost yet. And coming together to discuss this eases the frustration for me and maybe for others.

 

[Mr.Balloonatic]

I can only speak from personal experience ...
i have collected pins for many years and started swapping pins with others when I was working in TGI Fridays.
A few weeks ago,just after my finst visit to the disney store I ran into a friend who asked me what wwas in my bag, i had purchased a dublin vinyl a small donald plushie, a Marie (Aristiocats) plushy and a stitch.pin.
she mentioned Disney pin trading to me, which caused me to look up disney trading pins on the internet ... unfortunately on my first seaech I included the term purchase... and google brought me straight to ebay, where i found a lot for purchase of 20 pins for $35 which i bought, all though these pins all turned out to be okay, i believed that everyone on ebay was on the level, so i made another purchase.
After a little more searching I found this remarkable welcoming resource. And whilst reading through the forums i learnt of the perils of ebay, fake pins and scrapers.
And sure enough when my pins arrived from the second lot some of them, if not all were fakes/scrappers. Still waiting to meet with my friend to confirm the authenticity of the others pins from the second lot.

I now to be wary of ebay sellers, if something sounds to good to be true it usually is, but that would never have happened without the information put out on forums likethis, thanks to the members that make it a community, like Maria (destiny117).

 

[pook-a-lu-le]

I sell on eBay (in fact I started listing my Stitch pins off this board today). I try not to buy unless I know the seller, and there are many I would highly recommend off that site. Usually a good seller will not post anything in their descriptions about "No Returns Accepted"...this usually spells TROUBLE to begin with, also, be wary of high volumn sellers (they are in it mostly for the money), plus new sellers (they often don't know what they have), and be very cautious of those who sell in large Lots. Not all of these are untrustworthy but some are dreadful...

I would never sell a pin if there was any indication it was a counterfeit or a scrapper, however, it is not always that obvious anymore, and there are too many in circulation now. With that being said, just remember, you most often pay for what you get. If you are looking for a really low price on a particular pin, you might think you got a great deal only to find out later it is a fake. The trusted sellers usually have higher prices in general, but they have often weeded out many bad pins for you before they try sell any to a buyer... If it's a great deal on a great pin, then be wary...

 

[destiny117]

Mr.Balloonatic, thank you so much for your kind words and also for letting us know we have helped you in some small way. At least, our frustration discussions do help others, which is what counts. I am happy you were able to find this site and hope we can all continue to help each other without greed.

Pook-a-lu-le, I totally agree with you about great sellers being out there. I personally know many many honest sellers out there too. I do know how hard it is being able to differentiate a good pin from a bad one. Often times, I read a post here about how to take my time and not pick a scrapper from a lanyard or a trading book, but the fact is that with almost 7 years of experience with trading pins, I can barely tell, unless I have a high power magnifying glass etc. So I know what you mean about not selling a bad pin knowingly. In the case of you often pay for what you get, that is what you would think would hold true, but look at the seller selling Costumed Stitch Dalmatian Puppy pin right now. Unibear above, went to the site and checked, and it is so obvious this pin is a scrapper, especially to all of us that collect Stitch pins. Yet, this seller will fool someone with his high price of $87.38 BIN. This is the type of situation that I am posting about. And by the way, I e-mailed this seller telling him his pin was a scrapper/counterfeit, and he did not even blink. If he was a concerned or dependable seller, he would have e-mailed back asking why I think the pin is a counterfeit, right? So it is greed again that is blinding this person. Thank you for your thoughts on this too!

 

[bretu]

I bought
Pin 45980: Disney Auctions - Masterpiece Series 2006 (Stitch) a month ago and paid top dollar. I don't see on the listing anything about it being scrapped. The same seller sold several though and now I"m worried. He is no longer a registered seller.
I have been a pin trader, seller, and collecter for 10 years. I have had the pin looked at by several long time collecters. The pin looks real. Original bag & card. But they sold 4 that I know off. They also were selling the Alice Cards. Does anyone know for sure that the stitch pin was counterfited .

 

[PixarPerils]

Oh no, bretu. I'm sorry to hear about this.

My suggestion would be for you to make a separate thread asking about this, because most of the really knowledgeable collectors have already visited this thread, and I don't know how many of them are still checking it. I hope you get the answer you are looking for!

By the way, here is a thread from a couple of weeks ago, that asked a similar question, in case you are interested:
http://disneypinforum.com/showthread.php?6419-In-need-of-a-Stitch-pin-expert

 

[TheHapaOne]

you seem to be forgetting that educated pin collectors also buy fakes on the site that must not be named.they do this for one reason to pass them off as legit pins to newbies and tourists at the parks.sharks are one of the many downfalls in the trading community.and there seems to be a never ending flow of them popping up all the time.greed is a terrible thing in our pin world,and its destroying trading.

Totally agree on this I just recently started trading (beginning of 2011) and recently became educated on scrappers etc(within the last month) and looking at the pins I have traded for with other pin traders a few are scrappers/unathorized pins and it is quite obvious to me now....Even at the NFFC event this past weekend while I was there someone, apparently some people see/know from seeing them at DLR/DCA scammed several people by using paypal at the event it's ridiculous what people do for pins

 

[destiny117]

Hi,
The Costumed Stitch Dalmatian pin has definitely had counterfeits made of it. I have a fake one that was meant to be for my niece. I thought it was selling cheaply at the time and just plain got lucky. When the pin got to me, I compared it to my original one from Disney, and you can tell the difference right away. I did not return the pin to the seller, because I did not want him to try to sell it again. Then I decided to use the fake pin to show traders the difference. This was over a year ago, and the scrappers actually looked pretty good compared to how the recent ones look. Yet, even the best ones were not the right shade of grey.

There were excellent posts with pictures on Dizpins that showed both the good pin and the bad one side by side. I could try to find it, or else send you the pictures, because I have them in my files. PM me if you would like to see the differences.

I collect mostly Stitch pins and really know what I am talking about when it comes to them, and I have been trading almost 7 years now, and am with other traders quite a bit trading in person.

Now you must keep in mind that I am only referring to the Costumed Stitch Dalmatian pin and not pin 45980 the masterpiece. My knowledge of this pin is that it has also been counterfeited, even though I do know that it is not listed as such on pinpics.

PixarPerils is right though. You should start a new thread on the specific pin you are worried about, but before you do, search for a topic on it. Not long ago, a buyer asked the same question about the seller no longer registered. He was going to buy this pin also at a high price.

It took several years for me to find Stitch pin 45980 and this was with me trading live every single week. So the fact that so many are showing up on ebay, and one seller had so many, is definitely a scary thing. It would be great if you could compare it side by side with someone who has one. If you send me the picture or posted it, I can take mine out and see if I see any obvious things that would make it not real. Maybe yours is OK? There is always that possibility. Hope so!

 

[PixarPerils]

PixarPerils is right though. You should start a new thread on the specific pin you are worried about, but before you do, search for a topic on it. Not long ago, a buyer asked the same question about the seller no longer registered. He was going to buy this pin also at a high price.

After reading this, I did a search, and found this thread on the subject:
http://disneypinforum.com/showthrea...ded-to-authenticate-a-Stitch-Masterpiece-pin.

which also led me to this thread on the subject:
http://disneypinforum.com/showthread.php?5765-Disney-Auction-Masterpiece-Characteristics-Compilation


I hope that helps! But if you still need help, please feel free to make your own thread!