Trade Auction Rules Posted
New thread announcing my forced cancellation was just posted... I am sorry
I geuss gofys private auction is a no go
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Trade Auction Rules Posted
- Thread starter erudolf
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But what is there to stop someone, from posting a trade thread, "Hey guys, thinking about trading this pin(s). Send me a trade offer and I'll consider it."
Still just fishing, but I haven't seen anything that says trade threads of those types aren't allowed. Heck, any trade thread can be a fishing thread since trades are sent privately, and no one gets to see who accepts what. If anything, these auctions make it more transparent if fishing is happening, because we can all see and say, "Wow, so and so made a fair offer and it wasn't taken."
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This is what I was joking about in the other thread. I was saying that to avoid the the no reserve issue with the auction section what would stop a person from just posting a thread in the trade section saying they were trading a certain pin each week and to let them know if you were interested, etc. Each week or few days you change the pin. This way you still get to try to get offers on a pin and make a trade you might not ever have made before but you are not held to the "have to trade it away" rule if the offers are completely lopsided.
I agree 100% i didnt think a person should be able to close an auction..thats the risk you take in auctioning--trade if not. BUT in the same light a bidder should absolutly not be able to retract a bid?? It is a verbal agreement, however you should be able to beef up your bid...aka add to it.
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Actually, on ebay, you can set a reserve on your item that you sell. That's how come, when you bid, you will see you are the "high" bidder, but the reserve has not been met. I am pretty sure you can end an auction early on ebay by closing the auction (then you sell it to the high bidder). Obviously if you want to end the auction because you no longer have the item, you have to make sure to cancel all bids first before closing the auction (at least that's how it was when I sold on ebay years ago)
ejangabang
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I have a question, are people allowed to bid anything? on your want list or not? because on my auction I got a bid with pins that weren't on my wants. I'm just asking to clarify
markheardjr
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I have a question, are people allowed to bid anything? on your want list or not? because on my auction I got a bid with pins that weren't on my wants. I'm just asking to clarify
I've seen people ask for just their wants list pins but to get bigger/better responses they also open it up to genre's of what they collect. If you only want your wants pins you're really limiting potential bidders since they have to have your wants and they have to want your pin. If you have a TON of wants then perhaps you're fine though.
ejangabang
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is it a rule though? that you can bid anything because i have a big want list
is it a rule though? that you can bid anything because i have a big want list
This is from the list of rules
"The OP recognizes that they are putting a pin up for bid, and they may not necessarily get the offers that they are looking for. While it is encouraged to lead bidders in a direction of style pin you are looking for, reserves are prohibited. A pin put up for auction must be traded to one of the offers made at the specified end date"
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Ok....let's try this again....
I think a lot of the confusion and struggle is from the term "auction" because everyone is trying to compare this to a traditional auction - like ebay. A "Trade Auction" is in no way, shape, or form a traditional auction. For starters:
*The winner is completely subjective. Nine out of ten people might agree that person A's bid was the best but their opinions don't matter. Only the auctioneer can pick the winner and it is completely subjective. Person A's bid might be better in most people's eyes, but in the auctioneer's eyes person B might have placed the best bid. In contrast, on ebay the highest bidder wins, period.
*Reserves are next to impossible to set rules on. If you are going to say "only this or that" and that you may not trade it in the end, what's the point in calling it an auction other than that's the current fad? Just open a trade thread and ask for offers there if you want to run it that way.
*Bidding - open to anyone. Even if someone has already posted a great offer anyone can still bid on a trade auction even if it doesn't match or beat the other person's offer and if the bidder really wants the pin it would be foolish of a person not to bid, because again, the winner is subjective. You never know, you may offer something that really catches the person's eye. On ebay, if you can only afford $50 and the bidding is already at $55 then you are out of luck and can't even try. Not so with a trade auction.
Because of these extreme differences, this is the way I look at it:
Trade Auction - All offers are public, the item is guaranteed to be traded, and the auction will end at a designated time.
Trade Thread - The item may or may not be traded, offers can be public or private, and it can end whenever or be run however the person sees fit without any restrictions on any of the participants.
People can still do auction style trade threads if they want to reserve the right to not trade the item. I don't think anyone is saying they can't run their trade threads that way. But it works both ways then. If the pin doesn't have to be traded then the offer doesn't have to be honored. Honestly, only in a rare circumstance would I even offer on a trade like that because I don't see it as being beneficial to the trader. With no guarantee of there being a winner it probably means that you'd end up having to give more up for it because people are looking for a bidding war. On the flip side - for the trader, other people may see lower offers and therefore let that influence that they would offer. Just seems like a lose/lose to me. And then there is offer poaching. If someone sees an amazing offer posted they could message the person and say that they will take it and then the original poster is out of luck.
Which brings me to my next point - Bidding on Auctions. After thinking about it more I really don't think any bid should be allowed to change. However, I do think people should be able to submit multiple bids. For example, I may offer an LE 300. Then I may feel like I'm loosing so I'll post a new offer of an LE 300 plus and LE 1000. If that still doesn't get the auctioneer's interest I may post an offer of the same LE 300 plus an LE 500. Now, in the end I think the auctioneer should have the right to choose from any of those offers. Maybe they gave it more thought and actually like that second offer better than the last. All posts in the auction threads should be locked down so that no edits can be made. That would:
1) prevent unfair bidding practices and
2) prevent bid poaching because the bidder's pins would be unavailable to trade until they knew they didn't win the auction.
Ok....I think that was all I had to say but really can't remember at this point.
I think a lot of the confusion and struggle is from the term "auction" because everyone is trying to compare this to a traditional auction - like ebay. A "Trade Auction" is in no way, shape, or form a traditional auction. For starters:
*The winner is completely subjective. Nine out of ten people might agree that person A's bid was the best but their opinions don't matter. Only the auctioneer can pick the winner and it is completely subjective. Person A's bid might be better in most people's eyes, but in the auctioneer's eyes person B might have placed the best bid. In contrast, on ebay the highest bidder wins, period.
*Reserves are next to impossible to set rules on. If you are going to say "only this or that" and that you may not trade it in the end, what's the point in calling it an auction other than that's the current fad? Just open a trade thread and ask for offers there if you want to run it that way.
*Bidding - open to anyone. Even if someone has already posted a great offer anyone can still bid on a trade auction even if it doesn't match or beat the other person's offer and if the bidder really wants the pin it would be foolish of a person not to bid, because again, the winner is subjective. You never know, you may offer something that really catches the person's eye. On ebay, if you can only afford $50 and the bidding is already at $55 then you are out of luck and can't even try. Not so with a trade auction.
Because of these extreme differences, this is the way I look at it:
Trade Auction - All offers are public, the item is guaranteed to be traded, and the auction will end at a designated time.
Trade Thread - The item may or may not be traded, offers can be public or private, and it can end whenever or be run however the person sees fit without any restrictions on any of the participants.
People can still do auction style trade threads if they want to reserve the right to not trade the item. I don't think anyone is saying they can't run their trade threads that way. But it works both ways then. If the pin doesn't have to be traded then the offer doesn't have to be honored. Honestly, only in a rare circumstance would I even offer on a trade like that because I don't see it as being beneficial to the trader. With no guarantee of there being a winner it probably means that you'd end up having to give more up for it because people are looking for a bidding war. On the flip side - for the trader, other people may see lower offers and therefore let that influence that they would offer. Just seems like a lose/lose to me. And then there is offer poaching. If someone sees an amazing offer posted they could message the person and say that they will take it and then the original poster is out of luck.
Which brings me to my next point - Bidding on Auctions. After thinking about it more I really don't think any bid should be allowed to change. However, I do think people should be able to submit multiple bids. For example, I may offer an LE 300. Then I may feel like I'm loosing so I'll post a new offer of an LE 300 plus and LE 1000. If that still doesn't get the auctioneer's interest I may post an offer of the same LE 300 plus an LE 500. Now, in the end I think the auctioneer should have the right to choose from any of those offers. Maybe they gave it more thought and actually like that second offer better than the last. All posts in the auction threads should be locked down so that no edits can be made. That would:
1) prevent unfair bidding practices and
2) prevent bid poaching because the bidder's pins would be unavailable to trade until they knew they didn't win the auction.
Ok....I think that was all I had to say but really can't remember at this point.
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markheardjr
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Perhaps a caveat though, that if the auctioneer lists those in the lead and you are not one of them it is safe to assume your pin is not committed to the auction anymore. Right? I don't want to offer up a pin and have to wait a week plus before I can trade that pin somewhere else.
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:bigthumb:
RaChEltheRabidRabbit
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Wow, I am so disappointed in the rule about "No Reserve allowed". That is so unfair to the person who is running the auction... I don't think I will be doing auctions now because of this... It would have been fun to do. So unless that rule is changed I'm not going to participate.
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So, I'm a little confused about this. If the auctioner posts "guidance" about what should or shouldn't (can or can't??) be bid and that's the only kind of bid(s) received, does the auctioner have to trade the pin or can those bids be "nullified" for not following the "guidance"? If not, then what's the point of even posting "guidance".
Not trying to be a wise guy, just really confused... A common occurrence lately!
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I think "guidance" would be more to give people an idea of how to improve their chances of winning.
Adding that word kind of changed what Mischiefmanaged was saying. He was talking more about "restrictions" whereas Grim was talking more about what would be allowed. At least that's how I read it! :dunno:
Psycho Pixie
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Just a side note - You can end an auction on ebay anytime you want. You simply click end item and choose a reason. It does not matter if there are bids on it or not.
Actually, no you cannot. Fix price items can be ended anytime. But, at least for me (maybe because I dont have a "shop") A true auction item, that is an item people bid on, cannot be ended. At all, end of story. Ebay won't allow it.
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Not a huge fan of the "no reserve" policy...but I also understand that having a reserve just makes it more like a traditional trading thread, where you are able to receive offers and decide if you would like to make the trade or not. But...
I like the idea of auctions because of the transparency involved. You are able to clearly see what other people are willing to trade for a pin, and even if the "auctioneer" decides NOT to trade their pin once the auction has ended (due to not having a desirable enough bid), at least you know that this person is fairly willing to trade their pin (or they wouldn't put it up for auction in the first place) and gives you a better idea of what they are (or aren't) looking for for that particular pin. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if I made a bid, and the auctioneer decided not to trade their pin at all...at least I would know more about their tastes and would possibly help me make a trade with them in the future.
I like the idea of auctions because of the transparency involved. You are able to clearly see what other people are willing to trade for a pin, and even if the "auctioneer" decides NOT to trade their pin once the auction has ended (due to not having a desirable enough bid), at least you know that this person is fairly willing to trade their pin (or they wouldn't put it up for auction in the first place) and gives you a better idea of what they are (or aren't) looking for for that particular pin. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if I made a bid, and the auctioneer decided not to trade their pin at all...at least I would know more about their tastes and would possibly help me make a trade with them in the future.
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Yes, a true auction item that has a bid can be ended early. Ebay definitely allows it (but you have to meet certain criteria).
See:
http://pages.ebay.com/services/buyandsell/end-auction.html
Of course, you have to meet certain criteria to end the auction early. See:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/end_early.html
It's been a few years since I've sold on eBay (right after they took over PayPal and made it a requirement to accept credit cards is when I stopped selling). But I remember this policy in effect since I started on ebay (many years ago, just about the time when it first came online!)
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I don't mean to be rude but I assure you that you can. I have a listing up right now and it has bids and I went in to end it just to be 100% sure and it does let me... it says you can cancel all bids and end the listing. I am sorry you were misinformed.
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Please understand that the auction trading format - and forum - is new for everyone. If you had told me about a month ago (before the auctions started) that DPF would even have pin auctions, let alone an auction forum, I'd have said you were crazy. With everything new, there is a learning curve as we discover what works - and find the best way to change what doesn't. We (being the DPF Staff) are reading your comments and feedback. Everything you say ... well post ... is taken extremely seriously and all suggestions are given sincere consideration. We truly want the best for the forum and our pin community.
From what I am hearing (well reading), the biggest concerns/disagreements are whether or not reserves should be allowed and whether or not bidders should be permitted to retract/edit their bids (particularly if we continue to disallow reserves). I also am hearing (reading) quite a lot of dissent about Goofy's private auction, many people believing that he ought to have it and asking us to reconsider. Do I have the major points of discontent/concern identified? These concerns will be taken under advisement.
However, you must understand that while we are doing our best, when you have issues as polarizing and divisive as the auctions, reserves, and bid retractions, there just will be no way to please everyone. And in circumstances like this, we (being the DPF Staff) have to accept that whatever decision we make will make some people unhappy and have to make what we believe is the best decision for DPF.
From what I am hearing (well reading), the biggest concerns/disagreements are whether or not reserves should be allowed and whether or not bidders should be permitted to retract/edit their bids (particularly if we continue to disallow reserves). I also am hearing (reading) quite a lot of dissent about Goofy's private auction, many people believing that he ought to have it and asking us to reconsider. Do I have the major points of discontent/concern identified? These concerns will be taken under advisement.
However, you must understand that while we are doing our best, when you have issues as polarizing and divisive as the auctions, reserves, and bid retractions, there just will be no way to please everyone. And in circumstances like this, we (being the DPF Staff) have to accept that whatever decision we make will make some people unhappy and have to make what we believe is the best decision for DPF.
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