"Damaged"/"bad scene" PODMs - "fixed"

[Dalisair]

So... I often see people asking for damaged or unwanted PODM pins... and I have to wonder... what are they doing with them? Are they "fixing" them by taking a cell and putting it in there? If so, doesn't that now make it a counterfeit?

In my mind, yes, it does. It's no longer an authentic pin since you changed what was in it. If you are keeping it with no intention on ever letting it out into the public, and have records of what you did so after your death it's not passed off as authentic, I guess that might be ok. But otherwise, I think it's kinda shady.

What are your thoughts on this fellow traders?

 

[5titch]

I guess it would depend to me what it was they did to get to the film, and what exactly it was that they did to it. =/

 

[Dalisair]

If they replace the frame with another frame from ANYWHERE else in the film, it's not the pin it originally was, correct?

 

[BellesEnchantedRose]

If I liked what they did to the pin I wouldn't really care.

 

[gbdb4ever]

There was a guy at the Mickey's Circus pin event who had taken the film cel out of a 101 Dalmatians PODM and replaced it with a battery operated micro video player. He then recorded a 10 minute loop from the film onto a micro SD card and had it playing throughout the event. It was really cool to see. Perhaps this is what that individual or some of the people who saw it are looking to do with these damaged cels.

 

[Nathan95]

I actually think the idea of putting in a different cell is actually pretty cool if it's for collection purposes only. Let's face it we all have a dream PODM and sometimes it's something that hasn't been made. All of my dream PODM cells were of things they unfortunately didn't make (except for Mulan). If someone try's to replace the cell and make a profit off of it is pretty shady.

 

[Psycho Pixie]

hmmm... My 2 cents.

As a person who likes odd pins, I have recently decided that bizaar, "butt," and comical frames of PODM are fine for me. So coming from someone who potentially collects the frames you call bad, I have to say there is a niche for everyone.

Now, on to replacing the frame cells with one that was not originally in the released series. BAD! COUNTERFEIT! If someone Takes a Tangled PODM, removes the frame that is in there and replaces it with oh... Mother gothel singing mother knows best?? I would NEVER take it. I would not in good conscience be able to trade it away either, just like I will not knowingly trade a counterfeit pin of any other kind.

The pins someone mentioned from WDW where folks had replaced frame cells with Little computerthing screens and actual clips of the movie will NEVER be tradeable in the pin trade community properly. The pin is permanently Damaged. Would ending up with one be kinda cool for my personal collection? yeah, maybe, but I will not trade for it or buy it because it is no longer an authentic piece of disney movie pin.

Yeah, I feel strongly about this. My apologies if they differ from other people's opinions. People freak about pins that might be possibly, remotely suspected of being a crapper or counterfeit.. And now they are purposely destroying pins that are highly valued regardless of the frame/cell in them.

But. let me just say, if I got one of the moving LED ones that has a clip of the movie playing as a gift? I would keep it forever and accept it as a unique interesting gadget. but it is no longer Disney authentic.

 

[Jrdnsmom]

There was a guy at the Mickey's Circus pin event who had taken the film cel out of a 101 Dalmatians PODM and replaced it with a battery operated micro video player. He then recorded a 10 minute loop from the film onto a micro SD card and had it playing throughout the event. It was really cool to see. Perhaps this is what that individual or some of the people who saw it are looking to do with these damaged cels.

I would really like to see that, did anyone take video of that?

 

[shooting4ownhand]

I don't have a problem with it if people change the pin and keep it in their personal collection. However, if I had a PODM that was scratched or damaged in any way and someone was able to put a video of my favorite scene in it, I would pay someone for their work in changing the pin for me. I would love to have a PODM that played "Part of Your World," I think it would be awesome. However, I would never sell the pin and only keep it in my personal collection.

tl;dr- If someone alters a PODM pin for their personal collection or for someone elses personal collection (say they asked for the person to change it), I don't see a problem with it. If they try to pass it off as authentic, I have a problem with that.

 

[erudolf]

Ok - since this is somehow a topic and I'm a person looking for damaged ones I'll respond.

I want to do exactly what gbdb4ever described. That is why I only want damaged ones. I don't want to destroy a perfectly good pin. I happen to love these pins and would feel way too guilty tearing one apart if there was nothing wrong with it.

I really find it comical that this is even being questioned considering that in the past people have flat out said "send me your scrappers for a good cause" and nooooobody questions that. Not at all saying that those people weren't doing what they said with them, but how about some consistency?

Seeing that the running theme here as of late has been "It is your pin, you can do whatever you want with it/charge whatever you want for it" I would think that same thinking would extend to this. I'm doing this for my own personal collection, but even if I wanted to sell it one day, whose business is it but mine? Does anybody honestly believe someone would try to pass off a video version as straight from Disney? Come on. IF it were sold (which again, is not why I'm doing this) it would be advertised for what it is. Look at it this way...if you drop a new transmission into you car, is your car now "counterfeit". No. And calling this counterfeiting is not true at all. I'm not replicating or reproducing anything. I'm simply repurposing.

And in the future, I'd kindly ask that if you have a question like this, ask the source. Publicly asking a group of people what someone else's intentions are isn't exactly appropriate because all you are going to get is speculation and start rumors.

 

[BellesEnchantedRose]

Ok - since this is somehow a topic and I'm a person looking for damaged ones I'll respond.

I want to do exactly what gbdb4ever described. That is why I only want damaged ones. I don't want to destroy a perfectly good pin. I happen to love these pins and would feel way too guilty tearing one apart if there was nothing wrong with it.

I really find it comical that this is even being questioned considering that in the past people have flat out said "send me your scrappers for a good cause" and nooooobody questions that. Not at all saying that those people weren't doing what they said with them, but how about some consistency?

Seeing that the running theme here as of late has been "It is your pin, you can do whatever you want with it/charge whatever you want for it" I would think that same thinking would extend to this. I'm doing this for my own personal collection, but even if I wanted to sell it one day, whose business is it but mine? Does anybody honestly believe someone would try to pass off a video version as straight from Disney? Come on. IF it were sold (which again, is not why I'm doing this) it would be advertised for what it is. Look at it this way...if you drop a new transmission into you car, is your car now "counterfeit". No. And calling this counterfeiting is not true at all. I'm not replicating or reproducing anything. I'm simply repurposing.

And in the future, I'd kindly ask that if you have a question like this, ask the source. Publicly asking a group of people what someone else's intentions are isn't exactly appropriate because all you are going to get is speculation and start rumors.

:like:

 

[Nathan95]

Ok - since this is somehow a topic and I'm a person looking for damaged ones I'll respond.

I want to do exactly what gbdb4ever described. That is why I only want damaged ones. I don't want to destroy a perfectly good pin. I happen to love these pins and would feel way too guilty tearing one apart if there was nothing wrong with it.

I really find it comical that this is even being questioned considering that in the past people have flat out said "send me your scrappers for a good cause" and nooooobody questions that. Not at all saying that those people weren't doing what they said with them, but how about some consistency?

Seeing that the running theme here as of late has been "It is your pin, you can do whatever you want with it/charge whatever you want for it" I would think that same thinking would extend to this. I'm doing this for my own personal collection, but even if I wanted to sell it one day, whose business is it but mine? Does anybody honestly believe someone would try to pass off a video version as straight from Disney? Come on. IF it were sold (which again, is not why I'm doing this) it would be advertised for what it is. Look at it this way...if you drop a new transmission into you car, is your car now "counterfeit". No. And calling this counterfeiting is not true at all. I'm not replicating or reproducing anything. I'm simply repurposing.

And in the future, I'd kindly ask that if you have a question like this, ask the source. Publicly asking a group of people what someone else's intentions are isn't exactly appropriate because all you are going to get is speculation and start rumors.

+1,000,000,000. Couldn't have said it better

 

[Psycho Pixie]

I dont think the question was directed at you personally.

I have recently been telling folks I want crappy or weird frames. I know of at least one other person who wants ANY frame they can get their hands on, and last but not least, yours is not the only DPF ID with wanted threads stating any frame, damaged or ugly, will do. This topic came up at PTN after the reports of the computery ones at mickeys circus made circulation. That was quite some time ago.

You wanna damage/destroy pins go for it. but what this topic feels like it is really about; is what is gonna happen to the remade ones? What is gonna happen when someone does try to trade their now fake PODM. ((since counterfeit is not exactly what they are, lets call it fake.))

Don't take everything you read here personally, the question is a very good one.

 

[erudolf]

You wanna damage/destroy pins go for it. but what this topic feels like it is really about; is what is gonna happen to the remade ones? What is gonna happen when someone does try to trade their now fake PODM. ((since counterfeit is not exactly what they are, lets call it fake.))

I want to repeat that I was asking for already damaged pins. I'm not a pin murderer here...

And I would also object to you referring to these as "fake". They are real Disney pins sold by Disney that have now been altered. Reprinting or putting a bumper sticker on your car or replacing a part does not make it fake.

IF someone could actually change out the cel, the BEST you could do is say that the cel is fake, but not the pin.

 

[tinkerbelle1956]

There was a guy at the Mickey's Circus pin event who had taken the film cel out of a 101 Dalmatians PODM and replaced it with a battery operated micro video player. He then recorded a 10 minute loop from the film onto a micro SD card and had it playing throughout the event. It was really cool to see. Perhaps this is what that individual or some of the people who saw it are looking to do with these damaged cels.

I loved it . It was pretty cool !

 

[tinkerbelle1956]

Erica, if you could get ahold of a bad BATB and do one of those LED chips, I'd buy it . I would keep it forever . Who would want to try to trade something like that . Just A Thought !

 

[Rocke01]

WELL SAID!

I AGREE AND WOULD LOVE TO SEE ONE AFTER IT IS FINISHED! If you ever do a Snow White one I would consider buying it for my Mother. (Dad is Grumpy so the scene where she kisses him when they leave for work would be fantastic!) Just sayin! LOL

 

[Romancing_Train]

A damaged monster high doll, disney doll or collectable is decreased in value.

An OOAK, a one of a kind hand painted, repainted doll will sell for 3 or more times the dolls original value.



If someone buys another film cell, from another product and is able to nicely replace the cells with something better? A Lion King Podm with a 'be prepared' scene, a little mermaid with a 'transformation' scene, a Tangled with a 'Gothel' scene or a beauty and the beast with a 'Be our guest' scene will make these edited pins sky rocket in price. BUT. They have to be labeled OOAK or in the pin world it now becomes a 'Fantasy' pin. And it needs to be said or posted as such.

This is because a fantasy pin is a "highly desired pin that the people want, but Disney hasn't made yet".


ALSO some people might just want bad scene PoDMS because they might not have good enough traders for a 'good' one.

I would LOVE to have a few damaged or broken lion king podms because I love the frames art and I would put one of my own drawings in the place of the cell. But I wouldn't trade for a podm that is broken or a cell was damaged obviously like i would a nice scene.

 

[Story]

I think if someone chose to change the PODM, it would in my opinion become a 'custom podm' rather than a fake or counterfeit. In the world of Vinylmations, customs are pretty common nowadays and many people will even take a design and give it their own original twist. Doesn't make theirs a 'fake' or 'counterfeit', but simply a custom. And it's common place for people to sell custom Vinylmations- and I've even seen a few custom/fantasy pins sold as well - so as long as it is labeled as such when someone goes to sell it... why would that be wrong? :dunno:

This forum even allows fantasy pins to be sold in the "other for sale/wanted". Yeah, Disney may not have put it out, but that doesn't mean some other collector won't want it if you don't have a use for it anymore. It all comes down to making sure one is honest when listing it.

While I have no clue how to change scenes in a PODM pin, I personally think it would be awesome to have a chance at purchasing custom pins of that sort (tho I have a feeling they'd be out of my reach budget wise >.<). Disney doesn't have the time, patience or ability to put out every conceivable innovative disney pin idea. So as long as no one's trying to pass it off as coming from Disney, then why not let collectors put their own creative spin on things, and share it with those interested?

 

[Story]

A damaged monster high doll, disney doll or collectable is decreased in value.

An OOAK, a one of a kind hand painted, repainted doll will sell for 3 or more times the dolls original value.



If someone buys another film cell, from another product and is able to nicely replace the cells with something better? A Lion King Podm with a 'be prepared' scene, a little mermaid with a 'transformation' scene, a Tangled with a 'Gothel' scene or a beauty and the beast with a 'Be our guest' scene will make these edited pins sky rocket in price. BUT. They have to be labeled OOAK or in the pin world it now becomes a 'Fantasy' pin. And it needs to be said or posted as such.

This is because a fantasy pin is a "highly desired pin that the people want, but Disney hasn't made yet".


ALSO some people might just want bad scene PoDMS because they might not have good enough traders for a 'good' one.

I would LOVE to have a few damaged or broken lion king podms because I love the frames art and I would put one of my own drawings in the place of the cell. But I wouldn't trade for a podm that is broken or a cell was damaged obviously like i would a nice scene.

I was typing my post before reading yours, but OOAK is another term I was precisely thinking of but it just wasn't readily coming to mind. Well put post! =)

 

[tinkerbelle1956]

Good Point Story !

 

[Psycho Pixie]

I want to repeat that I was asking for already damaged pins. I'm not a pin murderer here...

And I would also object to you referring to these as "fake". They are real Disney pins sold by Disney that have now been altered. Reprinting or putting a bumper sticker on your car or replacing a part does not make it fake.

IF someone could actually change out the cel, the BEST you could do is say that the cel is fake, but not the pin.

Not attacking you, I swear. :| But keeping this on the discussion topic, I really need to respond. "Altered" ... I don't think that really covers what is actually happening to those pins. If you wish to compare "altered" PODM to cars, ok. lets do that.

CAR:

• Cars lose value the instant you drive off the lot, no matter how well you treat them.
• You can resell or trade in an "altered" car. But you can never call it a "classic" in its later years.
• Many "altered" cars are worth more than their original counterparts due to upgrades.

Altered PODM:

• PODM pins gain value the instant you walk off Disney property.
• You cannot resell or trade an "altered" PODM. (or any pin for that matter)
• An "altered" pin is no longer Disney Authentic. Worth nothing compared to its unaltered counterparts.

Saying the cell is fake but the pin is real would be like saying: "This VW bug is a classic that needs some work." When in reality the only thing original on it is the frame and hubcaps.

I am not saying your a pin Murderer, I am saying that Regardless of your plans or intentions for these "altered" pins, there is nothing to prevent anyone who eventually has one of them from turning around and trying to pass off a fake cell as a real one. Heck if it changes hand a couple times, the person might not even know it is a fake cell. **At least if you do the computer thingybob with them it is obvious they are not authentic. **

My big concern is what happens if those Altered Frame/cell PODM's hit the trade/resale market?

PS:: I didn't donate to any of the "good cause scrappers" things precisely because I couldn't guarantee those scrappers wouldn't eventually go back into circulation. Despite the fact that I trust the people who wanted them.

 

[LiliMay]

If I didn't love my only ariel PODM I'd totally would be up for doing a moving little screen inside it. Course I'd never trade it but I most certainly would wear it on my lanyard.

 

[ElysionsPrincess]

My only concern with this would be if someone sold an altered pin, and labeled it as such, that does not prevent the buyer from then trying to pass it off as authentic. It would not be the original creator's fault for someone else's dishonesty, but I feel as if it could cause some potential problems! In my personal opinion, I think that this kind of thing would have to be for personal collections only.

 

[erudolf]

Not attacking you, I swear. :| But keeping this on the discussion topic, I really need to respond. "Altered" ... I don't think that really covers what is actually happening to those pins. If you wish to compare "altered" PODM to cars, ok. lets do that.

CAR:

• Cars lose value the instant you drive off the lot, no matter how well you treat them.
• You can resell or trade in an "altered" car. But you can never call it a "classic" in its later years.
• Many "altered" cars are worth more than their original counterparts due to upgrades.

Altered PODM:

• PODM pins gain value the instant you walk off Disney property.
• You cannot resell or trade an "altered" PODM. (or any pin for that matter)
• An "altered" pin is no longer Disney Authentic. Worth nothing compared to its unaltered counterparts.

Says who? It has been said here over and over that value is in the eye of the beholder. PODM pins gain value only because the buyers give it that value. And not ALL PODMs skyrocket in value. Even a good cell from Jungle Book doesn't go for that much so I don't think that is a valid argument. Also, a PODM can decrease in value as well if treated poorly or met with an unfortunate accident. And who says someone can't resell or trade an altered PODM? Why is it ok to resell custom vinyls or fantasy pins but not this?

Saying the cell is fake but the pin is real would be like saying: "This VW bug is a classic that needs some work." When in reality the only thing original on it is the frame and hubcaps.

So? As long as it is all disclosed and the buyer is happy with it, who cares? An authentic chassis (sp?) for a classic car alone can go for big bucks (I learned that from Pawn Stars ).

I am not saying your a pin Murderer, I am saying that Regardless of your plans or intentions for these "altered" pins, there is nothing to prevent anyone who eventually has one of them from turning around and trying to pass off a fake cell as a real one. Heck if it changes hand a couple times, the person might not even know it is a fake cell. **At least if you do the computer thingybob with them it is obvious they are not authentic. **

My big concern is what happens if those Altered Frame/cell PODM's hit the trade/resale market?
.

So what if they do? They still aren't fake or counterfeit. Like others said, they are custom. Now, if someone misrepresents it, that's a different discussion.

Let's try another analogy. If you have a pin with a broken post and repair it by gluing a different post on, is the pin now "fake" or "counterfeit"? That post didn't come from Disney, you altered the pin. So is it now fake? Of course not. Should you tell the buyer/trader it has been repaired? Certainly. Would every trader do the right thing and disclose that information? Probably not.

I see nothing wrong with altering a pin. It really boils down to the ethics when people deal with each other which is a separate issue in my opinion.