counterfeit vs scrapper

[Snoffsan]

I have seen a lot of people who thinks that as long its not counterfeit but "only" scrappers they are buying on ebay its ok.

So whats really the difference? I understand that the real use of the name scrapper is on pins who didnt make it through Disney quality control and was supposed to be disposed but insted someone took them and sold them.

And counterfeit is illagaly copied Disney pins. (Bootleg is when its a pin thats never even been made of Disney in the first place?) Is that right?

But all those pins sold in lots on Ebay cant possibly be "scrappers"? They have to be illegaly copied? Either from the same molds used by disney or copied once.

And either way its illegal to sell them., right? And people who sells "real" scrappers probably aint no angels either because its still a criminal act to sell those, right?

So why do people still defend scrappers and say that they do nothing wrong because they buy scrappers and not counterfeit pins.

And can you really tell on a fake pin if its a scrapper or counterfeit?

What do you think? Are most pins on ebay scrappers or counterfeit? And is there really any point in separate those? They are still being sold illegale, right?

Or did I understand this whole thing wrong? Please help me understand this.

As a newbie to Disney pin trading I think its really important do do it right from the beginning. I have of course taken away all pins I suspect not being official from our trades and have even tought my kids to try and tell the difference. Of course they dont mind if they get a "fake" one from a CM if its one they really like, but I dont want them to help spread fake once so we will take away all fake pins we get when we go to the park so not anyone else could get it and be sad.

I dont want to start any kind of argument with this post so please dont read it like that, im just really interrested in learning all about pin trading

 

[AgentOfAnarchy]

I'm having trouble understanding what you asked, sorry for being dumb xD to my knowledge scrappers are disney molda being taken and made pins from and that's illegal. I don't see a problem with bootleg / fantasy pins provided that is what they are authorised as. They have their own pinpics numbers but are not tradeable on pinpics or on the pin trading thread. There is an le baby hades fantasy pin I would love to have in my collection.

 

[Snoffsan]

I just wanted to know the difference between scrappers and counterfeit and bootleg.

Im caught in a discussion on FB and wants to be sure I have the right info when I try to talk to people who says that scrappers bought on Ebay is not illegal, its only illegal if they are counterfeits.

So all those lots of pins being sold on ebay, are they really scrappers or counterfeits?

They said scrappers are pins made by Disney and then thrown away because of quality flaws. So that would not make them copies and thus not illegal to sell on ebay.

 

[doodlebug86]

I was under the impression the term scrapper referred to a fake pin.

 

[Jazzy B Bunny]

Counterfeit is totally fake. A scrapper I'm lead to believe are ones which are made in a 'Disney factory' but didn't make the grade? I'm a complete beginner though so could be wrong.

 

[LuvSimba]

None of them should be sold. Scrapper (basically factory 2nds), fakes (down right copies) or bootlegs (copy of a character..again a fake). I think people try to justify their bad actions by saying scrappers are from the factory and that they ARE Disney pins, ect. If Disney trashes them for whatever reason, then they should remain in the trash can.

The more previlant fakes, are just down right stealing from Disney. Disney did not authorize these pins. Their characters are being used in an illegal manner. It's stealing and commiting fraud. Period!!

 

[docfish2u]

LuvSimba I believe is correct. Scrappers are pins that didn't make the grade or have a flaw in them. They were supposed to be destroyed. Fakes are pins either made by the same molds or from mold made to look like the real pins. Bootlegs are pins that Disney never made at all.

The term scrapper has become like Kleenex for facial tissues.

As for the argument about scrappers being okay to buy, NEVER!!! Anybody making that argument is trying to rationalize whey what they are doing is wrong, but make no mistake it is wrong!!!

 

[melanium]

I'm not sure where I read this before, but there is a post by IAMDISNEYDAN on here clarifying the difference between Scrappers and Counterfeits. It seemed like the gist of his post was that most people are calling pins that are actually Counterfeit, "Scrappers". Scrappers are licensed Disney pins that didn't pass inspection, but someone at the factory took it and then resold it. Counterfeit pins are pins remade by someone else from the original mold. It sounds like the majority of the pins that aren't "legit" sold in LOTS on eBay and traded with Cast Members at the park are more Counterfeit pins, than Scrappers, which is honestly worse to me. Don't get me wrong, I don't want a Scrapper either. But I think the majority of us who have made a trade mistake here or there are getting Counterfeit pins, which stinks...because you traded off a pin you paid for, for something worth $0.00 and illegal.

Hope that helps. EDIT: Link to thread - http://disneypinforum.com/showthrea...fiets-(and-how-to-tell)&highlight=counterfeit

--Melanie

 

[Snoffsan]

Yes I agree totally! We all can make mistakes. I had no idea when I bought from ebay that there were fake pins, but now that I know I would never buy those again! But I did not send them back. The seller didnt want to pay for the return shipping so I decided to keep them so that he can't sell them again and trick anyone else.

 

[hopemax]

The terms everyone needs to know are: scrapper, overrun, counterfeit.

Scrapper basically has 2 meanings. First, is the discarded bits produced during Disney's officially commissioned run of pins. Second meaning, is the general term assigned to all the bad pins coming out of China. Kind of like when people use the term Kleenex for all facial tissue, even those not actually made by Kleenex.

Overruns are the pins that get made from the same molds as the official Disney run. But they may not use the exact colors, or go through all the finishing processes. Counterfeits are the ones made from new molds, the lines are thicker, they may be slightly larger, as well as having all the same issues as the overruns.

In addition, bootleg pins are when people make up their own designs but use other entities' intellectual property. You can't just design a pin with Mickey in a pose never produced by Disney and say since you designed it, you can do it. Mickey is a trademarked character and all uses of him are controlled by the Disney company.

Fantasy pins are pins that do not actually cross the legal line of infringement. The character has to be commonly recognizable. Use of a color and maybe a word that would imply a character to a specific audience, is okay because the common person would not make the association. A white gloved hand is also a common thing that gets used in fantasy designs. When my local chapter of the NFFC (now DFC) was formed they had to have their club logo run by Disney legal to make sure it did not infringe. They used a gloved hand, and there were no issues with that.

What we don't know is what terms Disney has made with their manufacturers in terms of scrap and overruns. If the manufacturer is contractually obligated to destroy the scrap produced during the making of Disney's run, if that stuff is being sold then someone is in violation. I figure in the pre-internet days most companies didn't care what happened to the scrap of their products because it wasn't in competition with the legally produced goods. It was only ending up in the hands of the families and children in developing countries who would never be able to afford real branded product. But at the same time it was exposing those children to those brands, payoff to come later if economic conditions improve. If there is nothing contractually about what happens to the scrap, then legally I think it gets into a grey area. But as a collector that is not something you would want.

 

[melanium]

Here is a link to the thread I was referring to:

http://disneypinforum.com/showthrea...fiets-(and-how-to-tell)&highlight=counterfeit

 

[Snoffsan]

Thanks for all your answers. So it was as I thought. Its gotten to the point that people use the term scrappers about all fakes. But the pins sold on ebay is most likely counterfeits. That was what I really wanted to know.

And it really doesent matter what they are called because they all are illegal and that is what matters is the end.

 

[latemetal]

Overruns are the pins that get made from the same molds as the official Disney run. But they may not use the exact colors, or go through all the finishing processes. Counterfeits are the ones made from new molds, the lines are thicker, they may be slightly larger, as well as having all the same issues as the overruns.

This is not quite true for over runs. Over runs are exactally what the name implies, they are made beyond the regular production run. There can be two reasons for over runs. First is quality control. Say Disney places an order for 1000 of a pin, they expect to have some quality control issues so instead of making 1000, they make 1200. After the run is done and inspected, say 100 are no good and scrapped (scrappers). Disney gets their order of 1000 good pins and there are 100 left over. Those are over runs. Made at the same time and to the same quality standards of what Disney releases. The second reason for over runs is just for them to sell some pins out the back door. They already have the production process set up to make a certain pin so it is cheaper for them to keep on making the same thing instead of switching to a different pin.

So it is possible to have a pin unauthorized in three ways.
Counterfeit = reproduced copy
Scrapper = rejected during production
Over run = original factory just made extras, no issues.