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No need for the defensive posture. I didn't say you bought them all on eBay. I know you traded or were zapped for many of yours. Although, I have heard you in person say how much x marquee "cost" you. Perhaps you were translating pin trade values into dollars.
What I did say was the eBay price would have been $300 when you and Dan were trying to complete your sets. People were buying pins left and right to try to get pins to trade you guys. And trading $300-$400 in trade value also sets values. It's not always eBay and it's not always cash that increase a pins value. I know the amount paid for your Up marquee, maybe you got it for free, but that doesn't mean money and pins didn't change hands. Even I was approached to donate a pin to be sold to raise money for your Up marquee zap. I have said in other posts I don't blame all the marquee craze on you. There are plenty of people collecting and paying high $$$ for marquee's.
I think also people were listing pins at high BIN prices to try to increase what they themselves could get in trade for it, but then, maybe even to their surprise, the pins were selling for those high BIN prices. You and I both know people toy with pin value manipulation using eBay. People prelisting pins super early at a very high amounts to try to set a value. Or fake selling 1 BIN high and then relisting two or three lower to make people think they got a deal. Or fake selling low to try to devalue a pin they want. People go to crazy lengths to get pins or get money. Anyone else ever notice it's always the same seller that posts a PTD first and it's always like 150% higher than the first one actually sells for? That aught to teach you not to buy the first one listed of a new pin. Someone will always go lower to try to sell theirs quicker. Then someone goes lower yet to get theirs sold quicker.
A vast majority of the time when someone asks me what I traded for X marquee I normally tell them the pin value of what I traded instead of giving them the entire run down of what I traded. I only got defensive because I worked very hard to get together the collection I have (I obtained all but 15 of the marquees in my collection on my own) and for someone to say you took the easy way out (i.e buying your collection) it really hurts.
A vast majority of the time when someone asks me what I traded for X marquee I normally tell them the pin value of what I traded instead of giving them the entire run down of what I traded. I only got defensive because I worked very hard to get together the collection I have (I obtained all but 15 of the marquees in my collection on my own) and for someone to say you took the easy way out (i.e buying your collection) it really hurts.
A BIN listing never represents the value of anything, even if it sells. _If_ it sold for $250, that wouldn't mean it's worth $250, just that there's one person with enough money and desire to spend that much (and possibly someone that mistakenly assumed it was worth that much since it was listed that way, that's what a lot of these high BIN sellers are hoping for, in any hobby, not just pins). Value is dictated by what buyers will pay under normal circumstances (i.e., normal auction starting at lower-than-value price), not what sellers try to get.
Looking at The Wild in particular, that pin has _sold_ for $80 in Jan, and $34 a couple of weeks ago, both in normal auctions. Currently one on eBay for a $99 BIN and no one seems interested yet... I say it's still a $34 pin, if even that...
A BIN listing never represents the value of anything, even if it sells. _If_ it sold for $250, that wouldn't mean it's worth $250, just that there's one person with enough money and desire to spend that much (and possibly someone that mistakenly assumed it was worth that much since it was listed that way, that's what a lot of these high BIN sellers are hoping for, in any hobby, not just pins). Value is dictated by what buyers will pay under normal circumstances (i.e., normal auction starting at lower-than-value price), not what sellers try to get.
Looking at The Wild in particular, that pin has _sold_ for $80 in Jan, and $34 a couple of weeks ago, both in normal auctions. Currently one on eBay for a $99 BIN and no one seems interested yet... I say it's still a $34 pin, if even that...
I was just joking that should this craze continue eventually the prices will be so redonkulous that people won't even start marquee's. Or we'll have some sort of like Pre-Brave / Post-Brave or Over $100, Under $100 type division in marquee's.
Ummm..... yeah, if a pin has a BIN of $250 and it sells for $250, kinda means its worth $250 becuase that is the going market rate. Granted there are exceptions to this, like if there was one listed at $75 and one sells for $250, I wouldn't call the $250 the going rate. However, if there are none cheaper listed and that was the most recent selling price, that is the going rate, like it or not.
I was just joking that should this craze continue eventually the prices will be so redonkulous that people won't even start marquee's. Or we'll have some sort of like Pre-Brave / Post-Brave or Over $100, Under $100 type division in marquee's.
Yeah, I'm kinda starting to feel that way about BTs... Just last month they seemed within reasonable scope... But with Little Mermaid selling for more than $400 (and all the older ones will probably follow suit), I just don't see the joy in trying to continue collecting them...
I can see someone that just now wants to start collecting marquees already feeling that way... They are hard to trade for, and not only are many of them very expensive to buy, they simply just don't come up forsale anyway. I've been able to keep my average cost-per-marquee at about $16 (actually money spent, not current market value of pins traded)... I think that would be very hard to do now...
Ummm..... yeah, if a pin has a BIN of $250 and it sells for $250, kinda means its worth $250 becuase that is the going market rate. Granted there are exceptions to this, like if there was one listed at $75 and one sells for $250, I wouldn't call the $250 the going rate. However, if there are none cheaper listed and that was the most recent selling price, that is the going rate, like it or not.
No, it has nothing to do with that actual market value. If I list a Tangled marquee for a $100 BIN, and it sells, does that mean they are all worth $100 now? No.
If I list it for $10,000, and some millionaire that doesn't care about money buys it, does that mean they all now worth $10,000? No. And, just to be really crazy, how do I know everyone else that wants this pin wouldn't be willing to pay $20,000 for it? A fixed-price listing tells you nothing...
Fixed prices have nothing to do with true market value. Market value is not what _ONE_ person will pay for an item. It's not even what two people will pay. It's what the item sells for on a regular basis to the entire market. If somethings sells at normal auction for $34 on a regular basis, and then suddenly one person sells it for $200 in a BIN listing, I guarantee you the next 10 that get listed in a normal auction listing are going to sell in the $35-45 range on average (there will likely be an increase, depending on the hype, but you won't be able to sell 10 of them at $200 price).
You can even prove this: I'll list a $30-40 pin for a BIN of $250. You buy it from me. It's market value is now $250, right? Re-list it in a normal auction starting at 99 cents with no reserve. If the pin has NEVER sold for more than $40 in the past, do you really think you will get $250 for it?
Ummm..... yeah, if a pin has a BIN of $250 and it sells for $250, kinda means its worth $250 becuase that is the going market rate. Granted there are exceptions to this, like if there was one listed at $75 and one sells for $250, I wouldn't call the $250 the going rate. However, if there are none cheaper listed and that was the most recent selling price, that is the going rate, like it or not.
A few weeks back someone listed an Enchanted Stained Glass LE 100 pin for a BIN $7.95 and it sold quickly but I wouldn't say that is the going rate, I wouldn't even quote it to someone trying to say the price range for that pin is.... A B.I.N. price can be vastly under or over priced. Past Sales prices can trend a price down or up, and then when ebay removes past sales after two months it's really hard to get a true understanding of the long term value of a pin. I can only see what has sold in the past few weeks which for many older pins is not at all.
An authentic auction price means there were at least two people will to spend the sale price (within $2.50 or whatever the current bid increment is) and so the price is more stable if a second one goes for sale. Even then, it's just a moment in time, if next week only one person is looking for that pin it will sell for less at auction.
An authentic auction price means there were at least two people will to spend the sale price (within $2.50 or whatever the current bid increment is) and so the price is more stable if a second one goes for sale. Even then, it's just a moment in time, if next week only one person is looking for that pin it will sell for less at auction.
Yeah, what a lot of people usually miss is that when determining a lasting value for something that sold at auction, you need to look at the _third_ highest bid. If it sold for $1000, bidder #2 bid $950 and bidder #3 bid $400 (and all lower bids closely follow the minimum bid increment), $400 is closer to what it's actually worth. Bidder #1 & #2 just got into an 'I gotta have it' bidding war. If another came up forsale with the same participants (minus the winner of the first one), it's likely to sell for $450.
Now, if it reached $1000 with multiple people bidding it all the way up, then $1000(ish) is a fair value for it.
There's a lot more to determining a true market value of an item than just 'But it sold for $xx the last time'. And remember, for every one that sells, that's one less person in the buying pool that wants it. If the pool isn't being re-filled in some way, the price is likely to go down, not up. Desire to own it by the remaining potential buyers may increase, of course, so that can help hold (or even increase) a value as well... Nothing about the value of collectibles is ever static or black-and-white...
No, it has nothing to do with that actual market value. If I list a Tangled marquee for a $100 BIN, and it sells, does that mean they are all worth $100 now? No.
If I list it for $10,000, and some millionaire that doesn't care about money buys it, does that mean they all now worth $10,000? No. And, just to be really crazy, how do I know everyone else that wants this pin wouldn't be willing to pay $20,000 for it? A fixed-price listing tells you nothing...
I did say there are exceptions. A huge one being if the BIN price is below the regular market price. That is obvious. If a pin is listed for $10,000 and it sells for $10,000 and there are no others available for sale. That makes $10,000 the going rate and market value at that now. Now, the next time one is offered for sale, if its at a lower price (which is likely that it would be), that would then become the market price, even if it does not sale. A market price was already set at a higher rate from the previous sale and none others were on the market. A new one is on the market at a new price, since it is less than the other one, that is the current market value, unless you can find one for less. For something without an unlimited supply being offered, previous sales play a huge part in the market value, regardless on the method of the sale if there isn't another one around for less.
For example, lets take the recent Rapunzel Reveal Conceal sale. It sold via BIN for $2000. Is that the going rate. I think so. If its not, show me where I can buy one for less.
A few weeks back someone listed an Enchanted Stained Glass LE 100 pin for a BIN $7.95 and it sold quickly but I wouldn't say that is the going rate, I wouldn't even quote it to someone trying to say the price range for that pin is.... A B.I.N. price can be vastly under or over priced. Past Sales prices can trend a price down or up, and then when ebay removes past sales after two months it's really hard to get a true understanding of the long term value of a pin. I can only see what has sold in the past few weeks which for many older pins is not at all.
Yeah, what a lot of people usually miss is that when determining a lasting value for something that sold at auction, you need to look at the _third_ highest bid. If it sold for $1000, bidder #2 bid $950 and bidder #3 bid $400 (and all lower bids closely follow the minimum bid increment), $400 is closer to what it's actually worth. Bidder #1 & #2 just got into an 'I gotta have it' bidding war. If another came up forsale with the same participants (minus the winner of the first one), it's likely to sell for $450.
I don't agree with this at all. Just because an auction price jumps doesn't mean its not the true value. If its at $450 and two bidders bid $950 and $1000. Guess what, anyone else that was willing and able to bid anywhere from $450-950 are unable. How do you know other bidders might not might not have been bid in the $800 range. You don't. You have to accept the selling price as the market value and that is the going rate until another one is available for sale again.
There's a lot more to determining a true market value of an item than just 'But it sold for $xx the last time'. And remember, for every one that sells, that's one less person in the buying pool that wants it. If the pool isn't being re-filled in some way, the price is likely to go down, not up. Desire to own it by the remaining potential buyers may increase, of course, so that can help hold (or even increase) a value as well... Nothing about the value of collectibles is ever static or black-and-white...
I am glad you pointed out that as the number of potiental buyers decreases, the number of ones available decreases. As far as I see it, the availability of an item is equality as important or even more important in some situations, than the number of people wanting it.
I did say there are exceptions. A huge one being if the BIN price is below the regular market price. That is obvious. If a pin is listed for $10,000 and it sells for $10,000 and there are no others available for sale. That makes $10,000 the going rate and market value at that now. Now, the next time one is offered for sale, if its at a lower price (which is likely that it would be), that would then become the market price, even if it does not sale. A market price was already set at a higher rate from the previous sale and none others were on the market. A new one is on the market at a new price, since it is less than the other one, that is the current market value, unless you can find one for less. For something without an unlimited supply being offered, previous sales play a huge part in the market value, regardless on the method of the sale if there isn't another one around for less.
For example, lets take the recent Rapunzel Reveal Conceal sale. It sold via BIN for $2000. Is that the going rate. I think so. If its not, show me where I can buy one for less.
Unfortunately, that's just not how the real world works. Just because one person is willing to spend $2000 on something doesn't mean that the fair market value for every one of that particular item is now worth $2000. There's a HUGE difference in 'the last price it sold in a fixed listing' and 'fair market value'. What did the previous ones sell for? If they've been selling for 1500 then 1600, then 1800, maybe 2000 is a valid price. If all previous ones had sold for ~$500, then the fair market value is probably closer to that. And if the BIN = fair market value logic doesn't work for under-valued sales, then it can't work for over-valued sales... That's just silly. You have people that want to save money (thus the undervalued one sells), you have people that have money they can just afford to spend with no recourse on trinkets (thus the over-valued one sells). Saying either situation is now the new market value is just plain wrong.
Like I said, SELLERS do not dictate the value of something, buyers do. When you allow the price to _controlled_ by the buyers, you will see a fair market value.
I'm not saying that it's NOT worth $2000 either, but that one sale is not enough information to determine that the 'going rate' is $2000... That's just what one person paid for it. Now, if you could keep re-listing this pin for $2000, and consistently get that price, then sure, that's it's value. One fixed-price sale proves NOTHING, one way or the other. One fixed-price sale will not supersede the market value determined by multiple auction-listing sales. eBay really is a great scam tool for this kind of thing though. Like people saying here that someone will list a pin for $1000, have a family member 'win' it, and now try to tell everyone that the pin is worth that... It's an activity you really have to watch out for (it happens in every collectible market).
I collect a lot more than just Disney pins, I see this activity in MANY collectible markets. For every instance there's a $500 item that suddenly sells for $2000 in BIN auction, suddenly people want to sell theirs, and several pop up on eBay. BIN at $2000 NEVER sell a second time. Ones listed in auction hit the old value of $500ish (maybe with a slight increase). There's a lot that can cause someone to buy at the inflated price- auction hype is usually the most common "THIS IS IT!!! THE ONLY ONE ON EBAY!!! WORTH THOUSANDS, BUT I'LL LET IT GO FOR A MEAGER $1500!!!!" (Please ignore the fact that there's 10 others on eBay with starting bids of $50 and no interest.) You might be surprised how often this happens...
That doesn't really mean anything though. The person who is selling those marquees has their marquees listed at crazy prices. I think they're unsure about selling their collection so they listed them at crazy prices to see what kind of offers they get to see if its worth selling. IF (and that's one big IF) i ever sell my collection I'd do the same thing.
That doesn't really mean anything though. The person who is selling those marquees has their marquees listed at crazy prices. I think they're unsure about selling their collection so they listed them at crazy prices to see what kind of offers they get to see if its worth selling. IF (and that's one big IF) i ever sell my collection I'd do the same thing.
