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Question About LE Pins

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Question About LE Pins
Guyver68

Guyver68

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OK - so admittedly I'm still new to this but I'm trying to figure it out quickly but I'm having a hard time understanding why the LE pins are SO limited. A pin with only 150 released to me seems silly as that many people pass through the turnstiles in 10 minutes or less at the parks. Disney generally doesn't (or didn't) charge more for these so why would they make them so hard to get? My niece really likes some of them but they're either really expensive to get after the fact or very hard to find or both. IMHO I would think Disney would want to make the pins more available to avoid the people buying all of something and then scalping them later. Also, it would be a more relaxing hobby knowing the pins were easier to get and didn't require working a bunch of extra hours to get a few. Just trying to figure this one out.
 
Lower LE sizes make some pins really worth your while obtaining. The parks don't usually have low edition pins and are usually found online or other Disney pin distributing places like Mickey's of Glendale and Disney Soda Fountain. If you have all high edition pins, then there would be no fun chasing after the pin/pins you've been dying to find for your collection.
 
Thanks for the reply but I don't agree. As a newbie to Disney Pin Trading it's most frustrating to see a pin that came out a few years ago and then find out they only made 150 or so of them. Some of them are just plain pins - nothing special but now very hard to find or too costly to get. I think Disney should be more open to the public wants. I'm not saying eliminate the LE pins but make a reasonable amount of them - 3,000 minimum for example.
 
Most of the very low LE pins originate from places where the general public is either not allowed (WDI) or come from places where the foot traffic is a small fraction of what the Parks receive (Soda Fountain & and Disney Shopping). Why would those places produce thousands of pins that could never sell out and would take up valuable floor/stockroom space?

By creating low LE pins, they create a more desireable pin and keep the stock low, due to limited traffic and storage space. Pretty much all the pins available at the Parks will be a higher LE edition or simply Open Edition, as those places have far more sales volume potential. But even the Parks create low LE pins, for special events and more costly jumbos and frame sets, as they know they are less likely to sell mass quantities to the general public.
 
Guyver68 said:
Thanks for the reply but I don't agree. As a newbie to Disney Pin Trading it's most frustrating to see a pin that came out a few years ago and then find out they only made 150 or so of them. Some of them are just plain pins - nothing special but now very hard to find or too costly to get. I think Disney should be more open to the public wants. I'm not saying eliminate the LE pins but make a reasonable amount of them - 3,000 minimum for example.
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It seems in your signature you like Donald. Well I can tell you most LE3000 Donald pins would be a complete dud and Disney would get stuck with them forever and eventually wholesale them off at Company D or to a place like Character Warehouse. LE3000 pins are very high edition sizes and are generally only used for pins like the Annual Passholder pins, example is the Donald ticket stub from DLR in January. I think it was there until March. Even Stitch, a popular character, is still there after a month plus now.

Disney's business is selling merchandise #1, tourism #2. The tourism brings people in to buy merchandise. They want pins to sell out and sell out fast. They only put up with us pin traders because of that. They created hidden mickey's to bait and hook people into buying more pins. They offer "starter lanyards" as purchase with purchase to try to get people who do spend money on stuff to spend even more!

Higher edition sizes make it easier for eveyone to get but it makes them less desirable. Every collectible market has a "limited edition" aspect to it. Even food items and eatiers have "limited edition" items like flavors or specials. If you only go once a year or even less than that, LE pin collecting can be frustrating. You have to have low LE's to trade for low LE's generally. Although, I'd wager you could get 50 Donald pins for a LE1000 Tangled Opening Day pin.

I agree Disney does a poor job of predicting what will be popular and what won't be. But the general buying public will buy pins too and they far outnumber us pin crazies. They can make an LE2000 Fab 5 pin because the masses will buy it. Pin collectors know it will probably tank in the pin trading world. Pin people want low LE, select characters, no words, no rubber parts, no string, princesses & villains. Not LE5000 Mickey Mouse 2013 in front of a castle pin.

Think of it another way. If you started collecting basball cards tomorrow, would you be pissed off at Topps Baseball cards for not making a million 1952 Mickey Mantle rookie cards? So that even you today could acquire one easily? Even if you want it really really bad, you'll probably never get it. That is just the way it goes with collecting something. That is why when something new comes out, MANY pin traders flock to get the pins. Brave was a good example, there are a lot of Brave completionists because it just started. They want every pin. Slowly some people will give up and trade/sell their Brave pins. Others who love the movie will start and have to acquire those pins. I love Wreck-It Ralph and have every pin they've made for it. Wreck It Ralph is popular and the LE pins are harder and harder to find or trade for. That's just how it goes.
 
They could easily make the pins available at the parks - the floor space is small compared to other items they carry. If you look at the numbers for the parks - just Epcot, DLR, MK, AK, HS - they receive between 50k and 90k visitors per day. Say 50k per day to allow for repeat visitors times 365 days times 5 parks = 91 Million people per year. Even if only 1% of them are pin people that leaves over 900k people buying pins per year. 3,000 would sell out easily and give many more people the opportunity to own the pins they like.

I understand what you're saying but there is tremendous opportunity for Disney to sell more, still keep LE, and have more people getting the pins they like. Pin 66184 in my sig for example - it doesn't relly look like anything special but they only released 250 of them in 2008. We started collecting in Feb of this year and can't get replies from the people who have it for trade and can't find it anywhere else. A LE release of 3,000 would have greatly helped our chances and not really impacted the LE status of the pin.

The comparison with Topps while accurate doesn't really apply as they weren't LE cards. They just produced them and now 60 years later they're hard to find. A Topps card that was produced in 2008 wouldn't be hard to find. When they produced the cards the intent was for anyone who wanted one to be able to get them and trade with other card collectors. It doesn't work the same way here as replies for trades are sporadic at best and many of the pin holders of those aren't on Pinpics or DPF.

While we're becoming "pin crazies" we really only collecting what we like. It doesn't matter to us if it's a jumbo or regular or whatever. I expect to pay more for jumbos and fancies like the Bald Mountain pins but some just don't make sense.
 
Guyver68 said:
They could easily make the pins available at the parks - the floor space is small compared to other items they carry. If you look at the numbers for the parks - just Epcot, DLR, MK, AK, HS - they receive between 50k and 90k visitors per day. Say 50k per day to allow for repeat visitors times 365 days times 5 parks = 91 Million people per year. Even if only 1% of them are pin people that leaves over 900k people buying pins per year. 3,000 would sell out easily and give many more people the opportunity to own the pins they like.

I understand what you're saying but there is tremendous opportunity for Disney to sell more, still keep LE, and have more people getting the pins they like. Pin 66184 in my sig for example - it doesn't relly look like anything special but they only released 250 of them in 2008. We started collecting in Feb of this year and can't get replies from the people who have it for trade and can't find it anywhere else. A LE release of 3,000 would have greatly helped our chances and not really impacted the LE status of the pin.

The comparison with Topps while accurate doesn't really apply as they weren't LE cards. They just produced them and now 60 years later they're hard to find. A Topps card that was produced in 2008 wouldn't be hard to find. When they produced the cards the intent was for anyone who wanted one to be able to get them and trade with other card collectors. It doesn't work the same way here as replies for trades are sporadic at best and many of the pin holders of those aren't on Pinpics or DPF.

While we're becoming "pin crazies" we really only collecting what we like. It doesn't matter to us if it's a jumbo or regular or whatever. I expect to pay more for jumbos and fancies like the Bald Mountain pins but some just don't make sense.
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The pin you reference was sold on Disneyshopping.com A much smaller outlet than the parks. LE3000 pins are bought by tourists, the 1% you calculate. Well those 1% don't trade on pinpics. They buy their pin and put it on their lanyard and put it in a box until their next Disney trip. Pins that are not popular don't sell to the trading community and usually disappear into a black hole.
The idea is you will buy new LE pins until you acquire one that is good enought that someone will end up trading you. You only have 47 pins, many are starter pins or pins known to be faked. You won't be able to trade those for your LE250 Donald you want. I'd suggest you see what those people want and try to get that. See if there is a pin on eBay that you'd be willing to buy, that is buy-it-now that is on their wants list. Then offer that pin to them, if they accept, buy the pin on eBay and trade it for the Donald pin you want. Just make sure the pin you buy looks legit from a seller with high positive feedback. (To do this you click on the "members trading" link on the pinpics page. Then you see what they want over on the "wants XXX pins." I don't recognize any of the 6 people listed but that pin at 7 to 44 shouldn't be impossible to get.

Also, you reply about baseball cards not being limited. Everything is limited. There is nothing that can be made that is infiinite. They just don't stamp the number on each card. Baseball cards now-a-days have TONS of limted editions. That is the only way they can continue to sell them, no one wants a random card from 2008. They want a refracter 1 of 250, or a LE15 signature or a LE5 piece of a bat, etc. That is what is valuable. And honestly I think the baseball card industry did that to try to quickly appreciate baseball cards released today to keep people interested in the hobby. It also helps pry those old 1950's cards out of peoples hands for newer cards. Many argue that the LE stuff killed the hobby, but it was high prices of older cards and kids interests in other things like video games that killed baseball cards. Not everyone can afford to keep plopping down benjamins to afford their hobby. Kids can plop down $30 on a video game that will give them hours of entertainment. A $30 baseball card barely gets you a mid level Ken Griffey Jr. from 1997.

But in the pin world, we can buy a DSF pin for $12.95 that is worth $100 right away and get that Donald pin. You have to put your time in and be willing to buy decent LE trader pins if you want older LE pins in return.
 
Would I love for my favorite pins to all be open edition? Yes, it would potentially make my life easier. However you can spend $50 on old open edition pins that haven't been sold in 10 years. Once the pin is out of rotation at Disney, it can be harder to collect down the road. That is not always the case, some OE pins didn't sell well and now there are plenty of them to go around. LE pins are sometimes harder to get because they are LE. I've gotten and sold LE for less than $20. It really depends on how popular the character is. But like everyone said, finding your most wanted pin is part of the fun. Finally having that pin in your possession is a glorious feeling. The "high" you get from holding your holiest grail is a good feeling. If all pins were easy to get, no one would have that feeling.
 
I have so much to say, but all of it has already been said. I'm kind of afraid to repeat it considering the responses that they got the first time....
 
I appreciate the discussion!

We will have to agree to disagree. Pinpics people rarely reply so 7 people is pretty hopeless. I average 3 replies for every 100 requests sent and that was when I had some better pins. If I can find it on ebay I'll just buy it but buying expensive pins in the hopes someone on pinpics will actually reply is a waste of money to me. Ebay is notorious for scrappers and fakes so if I'm going to buy something from there it might as well be something I want - not something I hope someone else wants. I'm not in this to make money off of people who can't get to events and get the pins they want. I'm in this to get the pins I like. I realize that's probably an unusual attitude but that's how I am. If the pin is stupidly overpriced I'm not going to buy it. But you did make my point for me saying the people who buy those pins aren't on pinpics or DPF and having only 250 produced makes it nearly impossible to obtain the pin or at considerable expense. I can't help but think of the Rapunzel compact that just sold on ebay for over $1k. It's worth $15. Costs about $0.50 to make.

IMHO pin trading should be fun and easily done by anyone. That's what makes it fun. Going to the parks and seeing cast members trade is awesome. Again, we don't agree but I appreciate your discussion.
 
LumpyLover - never be afraid to speak - people don't agree with each other and that's life. Don't take it personally. I didn't expect anyone to agree with me and it doesn't matter - I'm getting different viewpoints which help me understand the why of it. I don't agree with it or even like it but I understand it better.
 
Pin trading is a collectors hobby. The limited edition pins are made for serious collectors of pins or collectors of specific movies. The Snow White box set on disneystore.com has been bought both by pin collectors and collectors of Snow White merchandise. Most of the pin collectors on here also collect other Disney merchandise such as dolls, snowglobes, etc. The majority of LE pins have not been scrapped, so that is not usually a concern when buying LE pins on ebay. Though some have been scrapped. Quality is usually the biggest concern when getting LE pins on ebay. I wont drop $100 for a pin if it has a scratch in it. Your average tourist at Disneyland will not go home and drop $129 on a LE Snow White box set. They will spend $30 to get a starter lanyard to trade with cast members. With that being said, the LE with low edition sizes are usually not sold at the parks. They are sold online. They are for pin collectors not your average tourist.
 
I tend to take a cynical view of this (as I do of most things).

Disney can't make much, if any, money on low LE pins...I'd guess that they actually lose money on a lot of them, because there are no economies of scale. There's far more money to be made selling 10's of 1000's of the same Tink/Mickey/etc. rack pin.

I suspect that the crazy demand for and high resale prices of certain low LE pins are seen as promoting pin sales generally, by making some people think that the basic pins they buy might be worth something some day. (For example, the last time I was at Disney a man approached me as I was buying some annual pass LE's and chatting with the cast member about trading...he figured that his LE 2000 Mickeys and some OE older pins must be very desirable to a trader.) Maybe I'm completely wrong about this, but there has to be some reason why Disney even bothers to produce low LE pins, especially when the character is extremely popular and they could easily sell 500, 1000 or more.
 
pargani said:
I tend to take a cynical view of this (as I do of most things).

Disney can't make much, if any, money on low LE pins...I'd guess that they actually lose money on a lot of them, because there are no economies of scale. There's far more money to be made selling 10's of 1000's of the same Tink/Mickey/etc. rack pin.

I suspect that the crazy demand for and high resale prices of certain low LE pins are seen as promoting pin sales generally, by making some people think that the basic pins they buy might be worth something some day. (For example, the last time I was at Disney a man approached me as I was buying some annual pass LE's and chatting with the cast member about trading...he figured that his LE 2000 Mickeys and some OE older pins must be very desirable to a trader.) Maybe I'm completely wrong about this, but there has to be some reason why Disney even bothers to produce low LE pins, especially when the character is extremely popular and they could easily sell 500, 1000 or more.
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While they make less money in the long run, they can quickly sell most LE pins. A LE 100 Stitch pin may last all of 2 days before it sells out. A LE 100 Rapunzel will sell out within an hour. Its about quick business. If that LE 100 Rapunzel pin was say LE 5,000 it would theoretically take longer to sell. The Rapunzel pin would probably sell out within a couple hours. If it was a LE 5,000 Donald Duck pin it might still be on the shelf for 5 months. With the Pin Trader Delights pins, the DSF is guaranteed to make money. People will buy their ice cream to get the pin. Besides the expensive box sets, LE pins sell out pretty quickly. The most recent LE 250 Snow White anniversary pin sold out within a week (maybe a couple days, I know I barely missed getting to purchase it from Disney). Both LE and OE pins sell money. The LE pins bring in more pin collectors than the hidden mickey pins do. With LE pins they generally have repeat customers. There is no guarantee that the family who buys a starter set for their vacation this year will ever go back to Disney and buy more pins. Your pin collectors who bought a LE Snow White pin this year will most likely come back later in the year to buy the new LE Little Mermaid pin (assuming they have a LE pin with the rerelease of the film on bluray).
 
I believe there is actually a higher demand for LE pins than Open Edition pins. If Disney is tracking sales and repeat sales via annual passports (which would be all their repeat customers), I bet it would show that a majority of their repeat customer pin sales are heavily weighted towards LE pins. The single sales, by tourists, are going to be all their Open Edition/Rack Pins and, to a lesser extent, holiday LE pins.

I'm sure a majority of pin collectors/traders start out with rack pins and then quickly move to almost exclusively LE pins. So there is a constant demand for LE pins and Disney is meeting the demand. They also have LE items that are not pins and probably do quite well with those too.

If they were to make everything an open edition or very high LE, I suspect people would simply stop collecting them, due to the perceived lessening of value.

Would I want certain pins to be more readily available? Yes. I believe I have even seen others in this thread advocate greater numbers of LE pins to help reduce the insane demand and over valuing of certain pins. But it is what it is and we don't foresee any changes being made by Disney, because they see the dollars and how quickly certain product moves. They are not overly willing to up LE sizes and sacrifice guaranteed sales, unfortunately.

Good conversation, by the way. :)
 
Although I am late to the game for collecting Disney pins please do not assume I am not a serious collector. I have pins dating back 25 years or more that are not Disney. See my collection in the Showroom thread. What makes it difficult for me is there are only a few "series" that I like and the majority of those are older and LE and fewer than normal traders for them. Like I said, a LE of 3,000 would make it much more appealing and easier to acquire than a LE of 250 where most of the buyers don't want to trade them. The want list I have is very unlikely to grow as I have pretty thoroughly explored the characters and scenes that I like. 400 pins should be able to be acquired within two years (I hope) but I think there will be several that I just give up on. It would be nice to know that I can complete the want list but again I'm not certain that will happen.
 
This is a really interesting conversation about LE's... great points made on both sides.

Guyver68, the only thing I can suggest to you is go out today and buy a few awesome LE pins (LE 300 or less), keep them in your collection for 5 years, and then trade/sell them for pins you really want. I kinda regret not getting all the pins I wanted 5-7 years ago...now they're too expensive or I'm lucky to obtain them in trades. Once in a while there's a bargain to be had but those are few and far between.

The "dinflation" rate for Disney pins varies from pin to pin... and I do know that the hobby has really exploded over the last 12-18 months and I don't see it slowing down. More and more people like yourself are getting into collecting/trading pins which is driving prices for old pins (annoyingly) higher and higher. It's a mad race to get the pins you want at a reasonable price while avoiding the minefield of counterfeit pins being sold. Good luck!!
 
We all have to start somewhere, and when I started a couple of years go I had all but a handful of traders....when a couple of months later I found this community, that all changed....the people were so nice and helpful, and I managed to make a couple of trades and a couple of pinpics trades and it went from there, pin collecting requires patience to get started on, unless you have £££££s to instantly buy your highest wants....you have to buy some ok traders, trade them for slightly better..and so on and so forth...eventually you will get a good trade for a pin you really want. I collect UP pins....when I started most of them had already been released and were soo hard to obtain. Only now 2 years in did I receive my 1st LE100 UP pin! I have a large collection now, and it's ever growing but it's not its without hard work, patience and a lot of negotiating!! I would've loved nothing more than some of the UP pins to be larger editions, or at least I would have in the beginning....now if you ask me the same question I would have to say no....I wouldn't.

Even though larger edition sizes would make it a lot easier for me to complete my collection, being a collector at heart (I collect oodles of different things lol) I enjoy the chase....I enjoy chasing that elusive pin, and when you eventually get it there's nothing like it! Is the thrill of the chase for me, and I appreciate and value my collection a whole lot more knowing the sheer hard work that's gone in to it. Sure, any releases with up pins are crazy, and it's probably one of the hardest topics to collect but I love it and wouldn't change it!! Small editions sizes an' all!!!
 
Guyver68 said:
Although I am late to the game for collecting Disney pins please do not assume I am not a serious collector. I have pins dating back 25 years or more that are not Disney. See my collection in the Showroom thread. What makes it difficult for me is there are only a few "series" that I like and the majority of those are older and LE and fewer than normal traders for them. Like I said, a LE of 3,000 would make it much more appealing and easier to acquire than a LE of 250 where most of the buyers don't want to trade them. The want list I have is very unlikely to grow as I have pretty thoroughly explored the characters and scenes that I like. 400 pins should be able to be acquired within two years (I hope) but I think there will be several that I just give up on. It would be nice to know that I can complete the want list but again I'm not certain that will happen.
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Just because you desire something more doesn't mean it will appeal to the masses. My grandma loves Diet Chocolate Faygo soda but honestly I see it as a niche offering. Donald Duck may be your favorite, but many would pass up the opportunity to buy an LE300 Donald Duck because they know those wanting it will be far less than say an LE300 Russell pin (from Up.) So we pass on Donald and save our $15 for a pin that we can trade up in value for an old pin we want. You seem kind of stuck on your point and I don't see you ever getting your pin you want unless you take advice from people that have been doing this a little longer. We want to help you get your pin, but if you're unwilling to help yourself by taking some of the steps mentioned then we're wasting our time. Point is that pin was LE250, they wont' make more, and the chances of trading a non-LE pin for it are slim to none unless you go to a very angry ex-wife's garage sale or something. (Happens more than you think!) Your 83608 pin was a WDI exclusive, for cast members only, but that pin went to the sale bin it didn't sell well. So you should be able to find that one for around or under $20 (edit: it's actually on there for buy-it-now for $12 plus shipping.) If you get stuck on one pin you can't get, find another and go for that. But you have to have ammunition if you're gonna pull the trigger. Dollars for eBay or LE pins for pinpics. Kinda the way it goes. Offering OE pins for LE pins rarely works out unless your OE pin is very old and HTF or the person can't go get to the park themselves and just wants the OE pin really bad and cares less of the LE pin. Sounds nice but isn't really realistic.
 
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markheardjr said:
Offering OE pins for LE pins rarely works out unless your OE pin is very old and HTF or the person can't go get to the park themselves and just wants the OE pin really bad and cares less of the LE pin. Sounds nice but isn't really realistic.
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I was able to trade this pin for the UK Merida pin when it first came out. They were both worth the same amount monetarily. The Aladdin pin was worth a bit more. I honestly got the Merida pin based on dumb luck. I was awful at trading when I first started. I figured if it was on someones want list, it was clearly valuable. I learned my lesson pretty quickly. :lol: That being said, the Merida is a LE 500 and was just released. If I tried making the trade today I doubt I would get it since the Merida pin is somewhat more popular now.
 
markheardjr said:
Offering OE pins for LE pins rarely works out unless your OE pin is very old and HTF or the person can't go get to the park themselves and just wants the OE pin really bad and cares less of the LE pin. Sounds nice but isn't really realistic.
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shooting4ownhand said:
I was able to trade this pin for the UK Merida pin when it first came out. They were both worth the same amount monetarily. The Aladdin pin was worth a bit more. I honestly got the Merida pin based on dumb luck. I was awful at trading when I first started. I figured if it was on someones want list, it was clearly valuable. I learned my lesson pretty quickly. :lol: That being said, the Merida is a LE 500 and was just released. If I tried making the trade today I doubt I would get it since the Merida pin is somewhat more popular now.
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Yes, some older OE's are very hard to find and desirable by people that collect that genre. There are a few OE pins out there that are 3-digit $$$ but not many. A few of the older Grand California pins I wanted were tough to get. The Stained Glass golden poppy was tough for me to find, but I did.
 
Markheardjr - I do appreciate the advice but the point of this thread was not to try to obtain a specific pin but to understand why Disney produces LE in such small quantities. I don't expect Disney to care one jot about what I think or want - they have turned a blind eye to much of the pin trading experience which I think is a shame (scrappers, fakes, etc.). I am going to WDW this wkend for a pin trading event and if there are any Capt Hook pins left I intend on getting a few. But that is a dual coast release of only 750 pins. I seriously doubt there will be anything left but memories for that one.

I certainly never intended to waste anyone's time with my searching and apologize if it came across that way. I may not agree with or even like how the process is but if I can understand it better then I can figure out what's attainable and what's a pipe dream.

For the specific pin I've been referring to I have reached out to all 6 on Pinpinc and gotten one response. I asked if the person would be willing to sell the pin and got a one word reply: "possible." That really doesn't tell me anything.

I do appreciate the discussion and value the comments - don't let an old grouch deter you.
 
Guyver68 said:
I am going to WDW this wkend for a pin trading event and if there are any Capt Hook pins left I intend on getting a few. But that is a dual coast release of only 750 pins. I seriously doubt there will be anything left but memories for that one.
Click to expand...

[ears perk up]
Wait, what? Which Captain Hook pin are you referring to?
 
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