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Fake and Scrapper Phobia Discussion - Are we too quick to yell fake?

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Fake and Scrapper Phobia Discussion - Are we too quick to yell fake?
karkura

karkura

Gryffindor House Prefect
DPF Charter Member
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Is it just me or is there a fake and scrapper phobia? It seems that when many of us find just a simple flaw or something slightly different from the pinpics description we are so easy to yell scrapper when in fact the pin is authentic. Authentic pins are made in China after all. How can we expect perfection and why do we yell scrapper so quickly? It seems to be getting more prevalent amongst the collecting community. Much more than it was before. Is it just newer collectors or are us senior collectors doing it too?

When you trade or sell a pin that you know is authentic because you bought it yourself from Disney, have you been accused by the other party of trading or selling a fake? Does it make you angry? It has happened to me and makes me very upset.

Any thoughts?
 
I've been accused on several occasions, but I guess the phobia is so strong that for me I don't get angry or upset because I do understand the other person wants a legitimate pin. At the same time I do feel as though my character is being judged while being accused. For example, with hidden Mickey pins my phobia at the parks is so high that now I don't know what's real and what's not.
It's all subjective and falls down to trust in the trade.

This was a great question to ask. Nice way of breaking the silence karkura!

-Jonathan
 
I feel like its alot of the new traders.....also they all want backcards now.
Its so weird people have backed out of trades with me becuase it wasnt on the back card....i understand when its a special card..

But really...the back mickey card they says wdi...idk whats happening to our beloved hobby...
 
To me, the arguments about this are almost pointless- yes, scrappers exist. And yes, there are also fake claims and accusations...why there's screaming matches and phobia around it, I don't get.

I would hope, when trading, people wouldn't just assume things. Ask where the person got the pin (if they got it from Disney directly, or traded for it). Examine it if suspicious. If you're worried, pass this time and wait for it to come around again. Try and deal with traders you know and trust, or at least trust enough to be honest about the pin's origins.

But in no situation is it appropriate to tear into someone for having a scrapper. For one thing, they might not know. And for another, you might be wrong. I've gently informed people before when I've known (for a fact) that a pin is a scrapper/fake (for example, the Jessica pin that came with the snowglobe...the official one had glitter, the popular fake had none). But I don't do that often (it's hard to be 100% sure), and I always leave it up to them to investigate it (it tells me a lot about that trader, actually...to see what they do with the info).

People shouldn't be freaking out about it- that, I agree with. Personally, I only get suspicious when I have a reason to. And I always assume a Hidden Mickey is a scrapper until examined and proven not to be. But getting all emotionally involved seems too far, to me. Dealing with counterfeits is the same, no matter what kind of counterfeit it is- too good to be true often is, knowledge is power, and an ounce of prevention. All that jazz.
 
yes. Yes. YES! It seems that people are WAY too quick to call something fake. The recent thread of someone just saying that they got a fake PTD Kevin before even asking for any information to see if their pin matches what was released. People should never call a pin fake until they have done their research and compared it to another pin, find detailed pictures of another to compare it to or something. I can't stand it when people just see something that looks odd or different to them and they instantly call it a fake without even trying see what the pin should look like. I really find it annoying when people say older pins are fake because they aren't made the same way that pins now are. I had someone say a Disney Auctions pin was fake because it came in a plastic baggie and not on on a card. Well, the original Disney Auctions pins didn't come on cards and were sold in plastic baggies. But because this trader didn't know or bother to look into it, called it fake right away.

Personally, I believe the problem of people being too quick to call pins fake without doing the slightest bit of looking into why they see it is as big of a problem as the fakes themselves. Look at the previous post where they called the Kevin PTD fake without looking into it. Someone could see a post like that and get it in their head there are fakes when there are no confirmed examples of it yet and now that pin could be tainted in their mind, and they can mention it to someone else that they heard there was fakes and it can spread. There is a big enough problem with fake pins as it is, the last thing we need is rumors started that can ruin other pins because people don't know what they are talking about.
 
I'm not sure if I would call it a phobia but yes, everyone and their mother seems to think every pin is a fake. Some pins have been scrapped, the hidden mickeys are a perfect example. Disney's quality control has gotten worse so that could be one of the reasons people think everything is a fake. If the pin is not 100% perfect, people assume its a fake. That is not always the case. I think people are too quick to label a pin a fake but with some pins, like the HM, it is understandable why they do it.
 
I actually get nervous at times when I mail trade with the pins I get from CM trades. It makes me worried that I might cost someone shipping and handling for giving them a pin that they could recognize as a scrapper or fake, when I honestly do not know it to be a fake or scrapper. There are sooo many threads that I am reading up on to try to educate myself in, but I still feel scared that they could call me out and report me. I think that is why I get intimidated seeing pin traders with their books in DLR. I do not want to feel embarrassed if I show them my pins and they recognize a fake. And I do not want to be seen as a person who would con another person off their real pins with a possible scrapper pin, because I am not that kind of a person. I think for me, being new can also play a big role in being hyperaware and cautious of the possibilities of gaining scrappers and counterfeits.

I just hope that the fun in pins outweighs the phobia.
 
Having seen pins of low enough quality to be called scrap, on the shelves at disney stores.... YES. People are much to quick to cry Counterfeit or scrapper. And the BS about "if its on the original sales card it must be real," is ridiculous. You think people who can create PINS cannot create a piece of black plastic or card with some words on it? "On card" doesnt matter.

However, flip side of that coin, there are a LOT of counterfeits out there now. There are also scrappers and over-runs that have made it to circulation. And the counterfeit makers have gotten their hands on the things they need to create very realistic versions of some incredibly nice, highly sought pins!

**everyone who has heard me say is, your eyes roll at this point** The only real way to stop the madness is to kill the counterfeit black market with grading and certification. I said it before and i will say it again and again and again. However, that is not where this thread needs to go.

Before people cry fake, they need to research the pin in question.
 
I still don't know 100% what I'm looking for. In regards to back cards, if its an LE pin I want it on the card. If not, I'm noth bothered.
 
I get questioned about having scrappers all the time. Most people I've traded with in the parks question me before I even pull out my traders. They say, "You know, there are fake pins out there and I don't want to trade for fakes. Do you know what a fake looks like?" My response: "Yes. I know what a fake looks like." As I give them my traders, "You know, this lollipop pin is a scrapper." My response: "Is that so? That's funny because I distinctively remember purchasing it from Disney." Their response: "Well, you're only a kid, so maybe you're getting that mixed up with another pin you bought."
And then I take my book and walk away. True story. In fact, it happened this March.
 
A couple months ago, I met a sweet little girl (around 5) and her mother who had just bought a Fab 5 starter pin set. I witnessed the little girl's very first trade (with another little girl) and she was so excited.

Her mom was saying that she hopes it'll be a fun hobby for her daughter. The mom had just bought about $100 worth of rack pins for the little girl to trade. I congratulated the little girl and noticed that the pin she got was a horrible Ariel scrapper. I watched the other little girl walk away and brag to her large family about her new awesome pin.

I felt so bad for the innocent little 5 year old, so I told the Mom that its a very fun hobby, but it would be worth it to do some research on "scrappers" and "fakes". I also recommended buying packs or small sets of pins to trade to save money. The mother got very overwhelmed and upset. She said, "Fakes? Why would Disney allow this?" I explained that it wasn't completely Disney's fault and its hard for them to control the huge amount coming through DLR.

In the meantime, her little girl had a huge smile and said, "Mommy, I got a Little Mermaid!" Her Mom smiled and whispered to me, "Is that pin for sure a fake? I will go get the other one back!" I told her that I didn't know for sure and if the little girl liked it, she should keep it. The mother seemed torn and confused, so I asked the little girl who her favorite Disney characters were. She mentioned Pooh, so I took out my 3D Vinylmation of Pooh (brand new) and gave it to her. I said, "This is for you. Good luck on your pin collection. I know it will be amazing."

I apologized to the Mom and told her that it was none of my business to mention the scrappers/fakes. She said it was okay and she will do anything to keep her daughter safe and happy. She thanked me for the pin and I left.

It probably wasn't my business, but parents who know nothing about pin trading and get their children into it are usually the ones spending huge amounts of money, and their children are the ones putting LE pins on CM lanyards for people like me to find. And I'm always shocked when I find LE's on a CM lanyard and the CM usually tells me they just got that trade from a little kid.

Sorry for the long story, I guess I'm just not sure whether I did the right thing.
 
EllieFredricksen said:
A couple months ago, I met a sweet little girl (around 5) and her mother who had just bought a Fab 5 starter pin set. I witnessed the little girl's very first trade (with another little girl) and she was so excited.

Her mom was saying that she hopes it'll be a fun hobby for her daughter. The mom had just bought about $100 worth of rack pins for the little girl to trade. I congratulated the little girl and noticed that the pin she got was a horrible Ariel scrapper. I watched the other little girl walk away and brag to her large family about her new awesome pin.

I felt so bad for the innocent little 5 year old, so I told the Mom that its a very fun hobby, but it would be worth it to do some research on "scrappers" and "fakes". I also recommended buying packs or small sets of pins to trade to save money. The mother got very overwhelmed and upset. She said, "Fakes? Why would Disney allow this?" I explained that it wasn't completely Disney's fault and its hard for them to control the huge amount coming through DLR.

In the meantime, her little girl had a huge smile and said, "Mommy, I got a Little Mermaid!" Her Mom smiled and whispered to me, "Is that pin for sure a fake? I will go get the other one back!" I told her that I didn't know for sure and if the little girl liked it, she should keep it. The mother seemed torn and confused, so I asked the little girl who her favorite Disney characters were. She mentioned Pooh, so I took out my 3D Vinylmation of Pooh (brand new) and gave it to her. I said, "This is for you. Good luck on your pin collection. I know it will be amazing."

I apologized to the Mom and told her that it was none of my business to mention the scrappers/fakes. She said it was okay and she will do anything to keep her daughter safe and happy. She thanked me for the pin and I left.

It probably wasn't my business, but parents who know nothing about pin trading and get their children into it are usually the ones spending huge amounts of money, and their children are the ones putting LE pins on CM lanyards for people like me to find. And I'm always shocked when I find LE's on a CM lanyard and the CM usually tells me they just got that trade from a little kid.

Sorry for the long story, I guess I'm just not sure whether I did the right thing.
Click to expand...

You story brings up a very good point. As knowledgeable traders, is it our place to educate new folks about counterfeits/fakes and scrappers? You did the right thing, we all need to help clean up the trade hobby by stopping the trade of bad pins. But sometimes, people don't want to know, don't care to know, or they do know and act like they don't. the problem is knowing when to say something and when not to. It really is a case by case basis. In your situation I would have done the same thing.
 
Psycho Pixie said:
You story brings up a very good point. As knowledgeable traders, is it our place to educate new folks about counterfeits/fakes and scrappers? You did the right thing, we all need to help clean up the trade hobby by stopping the trade of bad pins. But sometimes, people don't want to know, don't care to know, or they do know and act like they don't. the problem is knowing when to say something and when not to. It really is a case by case basis. In your situation I would have done the same thing.
Click to expand...

Thank you Psycho Pixie. :) I wish someone would have told me sooner. I had been trading with CM lanyards for 3 months before I was told that fakes/scrappers existed. I read an online guide and spoke to other traders before I went through my whole collection. At least half (~30 pins) appeared to be fake/scrappers. I was pretty upset. Nonetheless, I picked them for a reason (I love the charactesr), so I still have them. Just wish I knew sooner.
 
When I look at my Hidden Mickeys now, I see that there's a percentage of scrappers there but I really don't care - it was about completing the sets at the time for me. Unless they're grossly incorrect, I keep them.

Now, the fakes of the Pixar mystery set are really upsetting since they're so blatantly wrong! But what can you expect - the Chinese have caught on to the fact that they can ebay their waste products from their factories and make a few bucks. I'm sure we would do the same thing if we were in their shoes. Not that it's to be condoned, I'm just saying I get why it's happening.
 
I only worry when people tell you your pins are fake to put you on guard before trading. People use it as a bargaining technique and I don't like my integrity being questioned. That being said if I am unsure about a pin someone is interested in trading I will always advise them of where I received it and that I am unsure of its origin. I trade mostly on emotional value so if someone has a pin and I like it I will trade. HM pins are fun traders anyway we shouldn't scrutinize and demean others pins when trading for these fun sets of pins.
 
Firebaby22 said:
I only worry when people tell you your pins are fake to put you on guard before trading. People use it as a bargaining technique and I don't like my integrity being questioned. That being said if I am unsure about a pin someone is interested in trading I will always advise them of where I received it and that I am unsure of its origin. I trade mostly on emotional value so if someone has a pin and I like it I will trade. HM pins are fun traders anyway we shouldn't scrutinize and demean others pins when trading for these fun sets of pins.
Click to expand...

If someone says my pin is fake, thats not a bargaining chip, that means they dont want it. And if they say its fake but want it anyway, its as red flag. I walk away without trading.
 
Yes. It happened to me. I sold a DSF Peter Pan Vault key and the girl I sold it to told me it was a fake. She said the pattern on the back didn't go to the edge and there was no serial number printed on the back. I assured her it was real because we had stood in line to get the pins. She still wanted her money back. It annoyed me a little because I felt she attacked my integrity. I wouldn't knowingly sell a fake pin. The are some good fakes out there but I have gotten pretty good at spotting them. DSF and maybe even DLR are not consistent in the making of the pins so when people see something different than they have seen before, they assume it's fake. It is frustrating because at times, I am not sure what's real or fake and I would feel bad trading a bogus pin.
 
Suzziesue said:
Yes. It happened to me. I sold a DSF Peter Pan Vault key and the girl I sold it to told me it was a fake. She said the pattern on the back didn't go to the edge and there was no serial number printed on the back. I assured her it was real because we had stood in line to get the pins. She still wanted her money back. It annoyed me a little because I felt she attacked my integrity...
Click to expand...

If that happened to me, I would ask them to send a picture of the back of a "good" pin so I can see the differences for myself. Have them try and track one down and then realize yours was good.
 
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