Pin Database alternative? What do you think?

[ethanwa]

Hey everyone -

I'm a software developer. I have noticed a lot of anger and people being upset about the new PinPics design. A lot of functionality has been lost and it's been hard to navigate.

- What are some of the thing you'd want in a new PinPics alternative?

- Is it worth my time to do something like this.... or is PinPics THE site to go to and there is no replacing it?

Just want to hear some thoughts. No promises that I would make a new site, I just want to hear what people have to say to see if it's worth it.

Ethan

SIDE NOTE: I don't mean to step on the PinPics people here. They have built a fantastic system over the years and I commend them for the efforts. But there is no harm in pushing for competition to improve things across the board. It's why we have Microsoft vs. Apple, Ford vs. Chevy, and Coke vs. Pepsi.

 

[imp]

I suspect that you would get a lot of support for an alternative database that offered better functionality than PP. The problem would be in creating the database. There are about 100 000 pins on PP. You can't copy their information because I assume that they have some sort of copyright for the data on their site, and I am not aware of any other source that could provide you with even a small fraction of the data that you would need.

 

[rik1138]

It would be nice to somehow continue to have a simple, database-only Pin website... I don't need blogs, events, another forum, animation all over the place, having to pay to get extra services, social media services/links... Just a simple database of pins that I can select the ones I have, the ones I want and arrange trades...

Hey, kind of like the original PinPics...

They can still be the flashy version if I want any of that other stuff for some reason, but a plain, simple database would be extremely welcome...

But, as mentioned, getting years worth of information and 100,000+ pins into a new database might be a bit if a hassle...

But even one that just managed to start with all current pins and new pins going forward (with older pins added as people add them...) might be a good start...

 

[ethanwa]

Good point imp, that is a tough one. But let's assume that's not an issue for now and focus on what would make a good site.

As far as some ideas that I think would be great for a new site:

- No payment. 100% free forever. ALL features.

- Large images sizes for clean, clear photos. No more cropping files and under 10K size.

- Clean website design. Simple controls for searching, adding, wanting items, trading items, making collections to share, etc. Main homepage is simple: Search bar, Login/Create User, Last 15 pins added, and Advanced Options.

- Anyone can edit a pin. A moderator would need to approve an edit if the pin wasn't yours. This means people can upload better pictures and descriptions.

- Easy to use trade request system. See a pin you like and see someone else who has it? Tap "Ask for a trade" button and the rest is done from our end. The user will allow/deny giving out his email if he wants to talk trading. Simple notification system on the site and automated e-mail system for alerts.

- Each pin has a direct link to an eBay search to see if the item is for sale.

- Pin-to-pin linking, so you can quickly see pins in a similar set (like a four-pin Mickey Through The Years set).

- Pins can (if specified) have a link directly to disneypinforum.com if there is a thread about that particular pin (such as spotting a fake of the exact pin, for exmaple)

 

[Psycho Pixie]

While no database can compare with the sheer volume of pins that pinpics has, if everyone pitched in and assisted with data entry, images and info. It could get fairly large at a fairly quick pace. The Library may not ever be as deep as pinpics, but it would catch up bit by bit.

And as someone else stated on here... No, there is no way that it would be acceptable to pull the data from pinpics. Besides being rude, *i mean stealing all that hard work?* it would at this point be an infringment of sorts... IDK the exact wording, or how it works since many images on pinpics are originally from members, but it would be illegal.

 

[rik1138]

- Anyone can edit a pin. A moderator would need to approve an edit if the pin wasn't yours. This means people can upload better pictures and descriptions.

A good option with this would also be an option for the moderators to lock certain information. Like the name of the pin or the LE edition, etc. Once it's confirmed to be accurate, and it's what the mods want, then just lock that field so no one can modify it. Just to reduce the possibility for attempted abuse and extra work for the mods.

Also, there's this cool feature called 'groups'. That would be most welcome.

 

[ethanwa]

No, there is no way that it would be acceptable to pull the data from pinpics. Besides being rude, *i mean stealing all that hard work?* it would at this point be an infringment of sorts... IDK the exact wording, or how it works since many images on pinpics are originally from members, but it would be illegal.

Don't worry, I never meant to imply that I would do this. Many of the pictures on PinPics are owned by Disney, so I think the pictures aren't the big issue, but the data definitely is copyright to PinPics. But for now, let's move past that. I want to focus on what would make a good site.

 

[rik1138]

And as someone else stated on here... No, there is no way that it would be acceptable to pull the data from pinpics. Besides being rude, *i mean stealing all that hard work?* it would at this point be an infringment of sorts... IDK the exact wording, or how it works since many images on pinpics are originally from members, but it would be illegal.

While, of course, we couldn't take information from any other site, I wonder what the issues would be if I (for example) supplied the same content (pictures, for example) to both sites? I know by providing them pictures, I'm granting them the freedom to do with it what they please, but I believe I still have that same freedom as it's _my_ picture.

But most of the basic information is just that- basic information. The 'name' used for the pin is probably subjective, so we'd have to watch that, but things like LE#, original cost, release date, UPC, location of release are going to be the same even if we create the database from scratch.

At first, I wouldn't even have a 'description' area, just make it a basic list. Too much chance for 'borrowing' the description from another site, and the descriptions are unique. Best to not even have it unless you think it's really necessary (pics and stats are all I really need...)

 

[hopemax]

. You can't copy their information because I assume that they have some sort of copyright for the data on their site, and I am not aware of any other source that could provide you with even a small fraction of the data that you would need.

A straight copy of text, images or layout, no. But basic data is not copyrightable. Someone can use Pinpics to pull info like edition size, price, sku, stuff like that. There have been lawsuits by one telephone book maker trying to sue another telephone book maker because they used their source for names, addresses, phone numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_v._Rural. There's no "sweat of the brow" protection. At least that's how I understand it

And there are other sources.

 

[Psycho Pixie]

oh yeah... that would be needed of course. certain information would be standard and have to be included, like sku# release date, edition size.... even titles for pins would be similar. but the pin # for a new database would be different, the description would be written by the person inputting the pin, so it would be unique. How the new database catagorizes, runs searches, and displays each pins "home page" would have to be different.

You mentioned images submitted... Well, it is your image of course! But pinpics now "watermarks" the majority of the images, so it would be rather obvious if someone submitted a pinpics watermarked image right? So obviously, if you submit an image to the new database, and the same image to pinpics, you would be able to tell the difference because the image for the new database would not have a watermark. I do not think the images for a new database would be a major concern, because as a free database, anyone who clicks on the image would be able to use it. Just like people cut and paste pics for meme's, jokes, etc....Heck, you can copy/paste images from pinpics too, but it has the pinpics watermark.

 

[ethanwa]

A straight copy of text, images or layout, no. But basic data is not copyrightable. Someone can use Pinpics to pull info like edition size, price, sku, stuff like that. There have been lawsuits by one telephone book maker trying to sue another telephone book maker because they used their source for names, addresses, phone numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_v._Rural. There's no "sweat of the brow" protection. At least that's how I understand it

And there are other sources.

Good point. You can't copyright a limited edition # or price. That is common public knowledge that is not copyrightable. But the description is where all the meat and potatoes are, so to speak.

 

[hopemax]

At first, I wouldn't even have a 'description' area, just make it a basic list. Too much chance for 'borrowing' the description from another site, and the descriptions are unique. Best to not even have it unless you think it's really necessary (pics and stats are all I really need...)

And yet, for years Pinpics just copied the complete description from ODPT.com. And so as a result many of the descriptions on Pinpics don't actually describe the pin. So when you go to search by the color of Minnie's dress, or the way she is facing, or what her hand is doing NONE of that is present in the description.

How do you expect people to find pins without descriptions? I'm not going to look through 100,000 pictures to find a Minnie that looks like

 

[Psycho Pixie]

I think a search engine that lets you just type keywords, much like the old pinpics was very nice. i still use the old gallery for most of my searching. and goodness, the groups system was wonderful. must have that!

 

[Psycho Pixie]

And yet, for years Pinpics just copied the complete description from ODPT.com. And so as a result many of the descriptions on Pinpics don't actually describe the pin. So when you go to search by the color of Minnie's dress, or the way she is facing, or what her hand is doing NONE of that is present in the description.

How do you expect people to find pins without descriptions? I'm not going to look through 100,000 pictures to find a Minnie that looks like

This is so vitally important! Detailed descriptions of pose, metal color, actual size of pin, exact colors.... so important in a database! Something you would want anyone adding pins to remember and put in the descriptions.

 

[rik1138]

And yet, for years Pinpics just copied the complete description from ODPT.com. And so as a result many of the descriptions on Pinpics don't actually describe the pin. So when you go to search by the color of Minnie's dress, or the way she is facing, or what her hand is doing NONE of that is present in the description.

How do you expect people to find pins without descriptions? I'm not going to look through 100,000 pictures to find a Minnie that looks like

Heh, good point... I hadn't thought about the fact that many of the search results are based on the description of the pin... So, yeah, I guess that is pretty mandatory. Just have to make sure no one just copy/pastes. They can be similar, just not word-for-word.

 

[hopemax]

This is so vitally important! Detailed descriptions of pose, metal color, actual size of pin, exact colors.... so important in a database! Something you would want anyone adding pins to remember and put in the descriptions.

And most of it missing from Pinpics. Which is why people shouldn't fear descriptions. If you are holding a pin in front of you and you are asked to describe it, no two people are going to describe it in the same order, use the same words. Writing a completely original description should be easy. There's just 100,000 of them...

 

[ethanwa]

That is a good idea.

A required field that describes what the pin looks like physically. Is it square? What is the character doing? What color is it? If it's Minnie, is she smiling, what is she wearing, what are her hands doing, and which was is she facing?

 

[ethanwa]

How about this... what if I threw together a quick development/alpha version of a site tonight. I can post it here, get some feedback, and make some changes as we go. The design will be basic and the layout may be weak, but we can get an idea for where it could go?

 

[hopemax]

That is a good idea.

A required field that describes what the pin looks like physically.

That's what we were always SUPPOSED to be doing with Pinpics. The instructions from the old site "Enter a description of the pin below. Include a list of any characters appearing on the pin, any major colors, any unique characteristics (ie. a dangle or an error), and any words written on the front. The purpose of this description is to allow people to search for a pin if they have some information about it. Therefore be descriptive -- do not assume someone is looking at the picture. "

Bolding and color mine. And despite that, people still list pins without all the text on a pin, or all the characters, or the movie those characters were in. The new site has no instructions whatsoever, so I expect it will just get worse. Even the moderator approved listings like the WDI Jessicas don't actually describe the pin. "Jessica wearing a Critter Country costume" means diddly squat when you don't know that looks like. But the back is nicely described...

Can you tell, that's a pet peeve of mine. LOL.

 

[ethanwa]

That's what we were always SUPPOSED to be doing with Pinpics. The instructions from the old site "Enter a description of the pin below. Include a list of any characters appearing on the pin, any major colors, any unique characteristics (ie. a dangle or an error), and any words written on the front. The purpose of this description is to allow people to search for a pin if they have some information about it. Therefore be descriptive -- do not assume someone is looking at the picture. "

Bolding and color mine. And despite that, people still list pins without all the text on a pin, or all the characters, or the movie those characters were in. The new site has no instructions whatsoever, so I expect it will just get worse. Even the moderator approved listings like the WDI Jessicas don't actually describe the pin. "Jessica wearing a Critter Country costume" means diddly squat when you don't know that looks like. But the back is nicely described...

Can you tell, that's a pet peeve of mine. LOL.

I think there are ways around this. We can have multiple fields, like "Pin Front" and "Pin Back" and "Extra Details" that are all required, to separate the data. Secondly, I can require that the fields contain at least 25 characters or more, so the pins won't save unless you are forced to fill them out in full.

A large blank description field just doesn't work for more people. The more structured the fields are, the more likely you are to get good data.

 

[jennisney]

i still havent figured out new pin pics :lol: so would love to see this

 

[rik1138]

And most of it missing from Pinpics. Which is why people shouldn't fear descriptions. If you are holding a pin in front of you and you are asked to describe it, no two people are going to describe it in the same order, use the same words. Writing a completely original description should be easy. There's just 100,000 of them...

Oh, yeah, I don't think two people would write the same description... I'm just thinking if suddenly a bunch of people want to add to the new database, there's the temptation to copy/paste info from another website rather than writing your own. That's what you'd have to watch out for.

Rik

 

[JayLeeJay]

I volunteer to add pin descriptions. I can't stand most of the descriptions on Pin Pics, especially for lesser known pins. Its not the latest and greatest pins that are hard to find - its the ones that have many similar pins or many similar poses that are so challenging and need great descriptions.

 

[starry_solo]

Pretty sure whoever originally created the text for the description (if not taken directly from odpt.com) owns the copyright to it. But you'd need/want an IP attorney to tell you that.

 

[Combatdre]

this would be awesome! I would volunteer as well... I'm good at research... I don't believe in monopoly or people making money out of what other people input for free... Ie wants/needs etc...