What do you think of the Ebay pricing on the PTN pins?

[erudolf]

Also and don't quote me on this but they can buy pins from the states online, whereas we do not have the same option to purchase UK and DLRP pins.

I believe that is true but I think the shipping is outrageous so it really isn't cost effective for them to do so unless they have a friend here in the states to received the package and forward it. I think that is a big reason why they typically want LE 100 DS pins for their PTN pins, because they are difficult for them to get.

 

[Gloomy]

That is absolutely insane!!! If the current market for the PODM's is "ruined" then I'd hate to see it "healthy". The only market that this person is hurting is the personal "markets" of those doing the slamming. They are just upset that this person is grabbing up a portion of the "good cells" that they may otherwise get and sell or trade. Believe me....the market for these is just fine and my bank account is proof.

Somewhere there's someone who's angry they can't get $200 for their Tink cell. :lol:

To their credit (sort of, and backhandedly), I think a few people may've just been frustrated that kindsoul beat them to the punch and they couldn't get good cells for their own collection. But the answer to that is pretty obvious: just contact kindsoul and let her do the work for you. It's what she does. *headscratch*

The problem, and where I disagree with Gloomy is not in helping people get them, but rather introducing people to them in the first place. DSF is not as widely known as the park pins and DS.com, so in order to raise their value, people need to advertise them more.

I think that may be a really good point, and it's a topic I think about alot, though not specifically in the context of just DSF pins. It's interesting to think of what influence exposure has on T/W ratings and general demand. The 2011 HM's were the first things that really got me thinking in that context. They're all hugely popular, and while that could be largely because people are more likely to believe they can trade for them (playing interestingly into what Hopemax was saying about perceived attainability), I think exposure has something to do with it, too. Sadly there's no real way to know, at least that I can come up with.

because the truth is if someone is always getting pins for you, what are you doing for them?

I mean, it sucks that at some point it comes down to mercenary terms like that, but yeah: it eventually did, at least for me. I wound up accruing a list of "cons" that included:

-I can't trade my DSF pins anymore, and it seems to coincide with my willingness to pick stuff up for people.

-A good portion of the people in this line hate my guts for picking stuff up for people and devaluing whatever they plan to purchase.

-The staff at the DSF ranged from super-friendly and happy to be selling me 40 pins, to hating my guts for working around their no-more-than-two-of-any-pin rule. Despite me being reeeeeally polite and expressing my gratitude for their patience and flexibility.

-I'm going into the city to get half a dozen pins for 2-3 people, spending twelve bucks for transport and half a day of my time to cater to a perhaps very gracious, but also admittedly very limited, list of individuals.

Offering marginally profitable pre-sales to cover the associated costs (which is what I'd originally done before offering free runs), garnered even more heat, and felt really awkward. And I was eventually undercut by pre-sellers who were assumedly CM's anyways.

As for the DLRP PTN pins, I don't know if there is a solution.

I'm reasonably certain there isn't. Their system's really stable. I would guess that it would take something like a major quality control issue, or DLRP suddenly tripling edition sizes, for that to happen.

-JD

 

[Gloomy]

I believe that is true but I think the shipping is outrageous so it really isn't cost effective for them to do so unless they have a friend here in the states to received the package and forward it. I think that is a big reason why they typically want LE 100 DS pins for their PTN pins, because they are difficult for them to get.

I mean, there's also the fact that it's just a pretty sweet arrangement to set that as a standard trade expectancy for something that cost $16 USD. I actually had a French trader who did me a perfectly reasonable trade a couple weeks ago drop that offer on me when I inquired about one of his recent PTE pins (not Pin Trading Night - just a Pin Trading Event). He sent me a bunch of linked pictures of pins he was willing to trade the PTE pin for, and I was like, "Hey, I've never seen these Tinks before!" *cheerful click!* "Oh, that's why. They're all LE 100's from before I was born." *less cheerful click*

I'm being hyperbolic. But suffice to say, they were all older LE 100's.

-JD

 

[PixarPerils]

This is only true if 150 people want the Max Schnell pin, which I don't know to be the case.

That is very true. But again, and this is just from my perspective, and half-joking, but... if no one wants the pin, why should it bother anyone for little old me to have one? Haha.

And let's just hypothetically say that I trade for the pin instead. I don't have any comparable traders yet, so I would need to trade 2-for-1 (a 2-for-1 trade was actually offered to me for the Max pin when I posted my thread.) So that would leave me with 2 less traders, which I already have so few of. And I'm REALLY trying to build up more traders, so I can get more into the trading side of the hobby, rather than mostly collecting. But how can I get more into trading, if the pins I trade for go right into my collection? If I ever do trade for a pin to go right into my collection, it is only because it is an older pin that is no longer available in the stores, or on the secondary market (which includes the forum sale boards).

Easy now, I'm not "upset". Like I said, this was just an academic look at the economics at work, at least how I see them.

I know, I know... I apologize for my wording. I actually tried to think of a different word there, and all I could come up with was "mad", which was even worse. I also thought about putting it in quotation marks, but I thought you might take it the wrong way.

You don't sound entitled or snarky, you're totally cool. Hopefully I don't sound in any way reprehensible either.

Not at all! I'm actually really glad we had/are having this conversation. I think we both understand each other's perspectives a lot better than we did before. I know that is certainly true on my side. I had previously seen so many posts from people who were making DSF runs not very long ago, so I figured it was okay to make a post asking if anyone was going. When no one answered, I was afraid I had worded the post wrong or offended everyone in some way. But now I know that it isn't just me, which makes me feel a lot better. :wiggle:

Thanks for taking the time to respond and explain things, my friend!

 

[anastasia]

I've been reading this thread with interest. I collect the super jumbo dlrp event and ptn pins. I'd love to collect all of the ptn pins as they are a fantastic collection, however I'm so not going down that road! It's stressful enough checking each month to see if they've released one with a character I need!

I'm from the UK, and we rarely get desirable releases (although some of the more recent UK pins seem to trade OK). So I can understand the difficulty in trading for the pins you want.

The number of French pin releases is tiny in comparison to the US. All they get are a few LE releases, a few 'rack' releases and a ptn pin per month, except when they have an event every few months. So not that many pins for French traders to easily obtain, and only a handful that will be good traders.

When DS.com was releasing lots of low LE pins and sets, the amount of decent pins being released from DS.com alone was far more than the French were getting. That's before you look at any park releases. And look at the markup on the PODM pins. I know that's already been mentioned, but that's no worse than the mark up on ptn pins. And it happens with so many US pins (DS.com Jessica pins, for example).

Generally, my understanding is that as DA pins in particular are so ridiculously hard to trade for (and you guys say the French over value their pins), the French see the popularity of their ptn pins as a way to get the pins they want. Can you really blame them? I know from personal experience how difficult it is to get DA pins (even le 1000s), so who can blame them for essentially creating a market that gives them a chance of getting some pins they want when trading! I was able to trade for my number 1 HG recently, but only because I had a ptn pin to trade for it; I'd been trying for ages to get it! In many respects the price of ptn pins isn't that bad.

But don't forget, if no one wanted the pins (and Americans in particular really do seem to lap them up) they wouldn't have such a high value. There's also the fact that they're of a high quality - the designs are great, especially the jumbos. If the pins they were releasing were poor quality they wouldn't have such a value.

Someone said about us Europeans having more holidays than you guys in the US. That's true. it doesn't make it any cheaper for us to come and holiday over there though! Most people wouldn't be able to afford to go more than once per year (if that - I've not been to the US since I was a child, I'm struggling to afford to go to Paris at the moment, let alone anywhere more expensive!) So I disagree that Europeans have better access to your pins than you do to ours. And given the postage charge to send from DS.com to the UK ($20 for 1 pin), it's mainly through ebay or some "kind souls" that we are able to get your pins. Add to the fact that we want more of your pins than you do of ours, and that doesn't really weight anything in our favour does it?

I do understand the frustration at the prices though - given I have all the jumbos so far, I'm resigned to the fact that I'll be paying $70+ for each new jumbo that comes out. I got the recent Jessica for $95 and was 'pleased' with that as my heart sank when I heard about that release! But at least I was paying $95 for such a huge and beautiful pin.

It does seem from some of the comments though, that the French are getting a particularly rough ride here, and while people want ptn pins for low prices, only a handful of people are pointing out the ridiculous prices that many American sell their pins at.

 

[Masamune]

Tanya got it spot on I think. I'll be surprised if anyone has a reason to disagree with that.

 

[hopemax]

I think that may be a really good point, and it's a topic I think about alot, though not specifically in the context of just DSF pins. It's interesting to think of what influence exposure has on T/W ratings and general demand. The 2011 HM's were the first things that really got me thinking in that context. They're all hugely popular, and while that could be largely because people are more likely to believe they can trade for them (playing interestingly into what Hopemax was saying about perceived attainability), I think exposure has something to do with it, too. Sadly there's no real way to know, at least that I can come up with.

I just don't think pins are any different than most things. I don't look at million dollar houses or $50,000 cars when I know no bank will give me financing. I don't look at shoes or clothes that will cost more than I'm willing to spend, and I don't pay much attention to pins that I don't have good enough traders to acquire or willing to shell out the cash with paying the markup. It just ends up with wasted energy. And I really don't think I'm alone in that regard. Perhaps, not among active DPF posters who seem to be more in the "big leagues" and actually have the resources. But among the larger, "lurker" pin base.

As many times people complain about unfair offers, conscientious traders have had it drilled into their heads that you need to look at edition size, cost and wants/trades ratios. And honestly, I've run across a lot more conscientious traders the last 9 months than not. We haven't been exactly trained to see LE 150, Traders 9 and think you can make a trade with whatever most people have from their WDW or DL vacation. You learn not to make those requests, and then you learn that since you don't have the resources to trade for those types of pins, why bother even looking for them. I imagine WDI and UK pins suffer the same fate. I don't know which ones ended up in the 50p bin and which ones haven't, so I don't know if I would be insulting someone by offering a WDW pin, so I'd rather not take the chance.

Now I do agree that exposure is part of it. I can never remember how long it is that you have to wait before they accept phone orders, or the shipping fees, and I'm active in the community. I've looked on the website and Facebook and couldn't find it there either. So if you are even less knowledgeable about pins how would you even know you could do it? So even though phone orders are available that may not translate to perceived attainability if a person doesn't even know the option exists. And I'm sure you'd get yelled at by the same people who are yelling now, if someone started posting a "these pins are available by phone order now" posts.

 

[Stitch2814]

Tanya got it spot on I think. I'll be surprised if anyone has a reason to disagree with that.

somebody will Lindsay XD