Announcement An Open Letter to DPF

dancecats said:

Let me reiterate this point since it seems to have gone by the wayside: DPF Staff have no authority outside of DPF. We are responsible for our little corner of the internet and that is it, no more and no less. We have/had no more influence over the way that particular Facebook page (or pages) than anyone else here does/did.

That being said, the requests for DPF Staff to hold members who make vicious, hurtful posts on other sites accountable here on DPF because they're also DPF members just isn't viable or reasonable. It's the equivalent of asking to prosecute Mickey Mouse in California for crimes he committed in Florida. Mickey has residences in both states, but the offenses were committed in Florida; the State of California has no jurisdiction to prosecute. We (being DPF Staff) can't hold anyone accountable for anything that happens off of DPF.

It's one thing for Facebook to have taken down 'that page' and to have held its administrators accountable by temporarily banning their personal pages as well for one simple reason: all of those pages are (or were) on Facebook. Facebook is taking care of its own site and holding users accountable for actions done on its site. The personal pages were on Facebook; it would be a different story and quite unreasonable for Facebook to ask DPF or Pin Pics to ban those administrators' accounts for their participation in 'that page'.

As such, it's equally unreasonable for members to ask DPF to punish our members HERE for conduct elsewhere. Those who are inclined to post malicious content about people will find it anywhere or just make it up, not just from DPF, so participation here won't necessarily be a source of information. If you have a problem with a member HERE on DPF, please use the ignore feature, contact DPF Staff, or use the Report Post option (it's the triangle with the exclamation point) and it will be dealt with. If you have a problem with a member on another site, you'll have to address it with that forum's moderation staff.

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I completely understand what you were saying and can't help but feel that response was a little patronizing, but using that same logic one could argue that due to certain circumstances individuals can and should still be held accountable for their third party actions elsewhere. The same way employees of an establishment, that require their employees to wear uniforms, are held responsible for their actions on and off company grounds while representing their establishment is the same way that you should approach some members here.

I for one, have been attacked on this forum many times. The last time was so severe that I was banned from DPF, for the FIRST TIME I might add, for an entire year. Now, I have literally made one of my very first comments having returned and the same instigator from the event years ago immediately tries to bait me using passive aggressive behavior. That is totally inappropriate and I hope it is addressed because I know I have personally asked this individual to leave me alone; they have been added to my ignore list here, blocked on Facebook and I haven't said a word to them since having done so years ago.

This same individual OBVIOUSLY used screenshots from a direct message here and posted it elsewhere with the intent to incite drama and humiliation. NO ONE deserves that! And its clear from which end these messages are being screenshot from as senders and reply messages are highlighted differently within the message itself. So in other words, this person has not only gone out of their way to attack and harass me here, but they've also made it their mission to humiliate me on any such related forum. Even if that includes using data from YOUR forum to attack me elsewhere. In that respect, I feel at least one individual from this forum deserves to be reprimanded; the same way I was held accountable and banned here for a year is the same way all of your members should be responded to.

Ok, wow this is really going off topic and really far. For one a lot of examples that are given about employment and housing/renting are bound by contract, one example would be a Conduct Policy. This is a public forum, Have any of you signed any contracts or Conduct Policy's when you signed up to be a member of this forum? I remember when I signed up I just agreed that I understand and would follow the rules of the forum.

I could say a lot but I would like to go out and enjoy my Birthday weekend. There are some simple rules of the forum about sales/trades/etc and if you don't know where to find them I'm sure any member or staff will be more then happy to guide you to the location. I don't know why this is hard to understand but the Staff of DPF are only able to enforce the rules of this forum on this forum only. We are not the internet police. If a member has violated a rule here on DPF the Staff can only give out already established infractions. Also, the same goes for bans. If anyone does not know what these infractions/bans are or what they are for I am posting them again.

The DPF Infraction System

Infractions:

"Infractions" is a system we are in the process of fully implementing. In general, it's a system for warning DPF members for violations of forum rules. Different infractions are assigned different "point" values, which expire over time (Similar to a Driver's License.) An accumulation of a certain number of points within a certain span of time will warrant a temporary (or permanent) ban of that DPF account. Currently we have infractions for the following:

• Inappropriate Language (1 Point, Expires in 30 days)
• Excessive Spamming or "Bumping" (1 Point, Expires in 30 days)
• Signature/Image/"Other" Violation (1 Point, Expires in 30 days)
• "Drama" (1 Point, Expires in 30 days)
• Violation of Marketplace/Auction Rules (1 point, Expires in 60 days)
• Unresolved Trade/Auction (2 points, Expires in 180 days)
• Insulted Other Member(s)/Personal Attacks (2 Points, Expires in 180 days)
• Unresolved Dispute (3 points, Expires in 180 days)

the points operate in much the same way points against your license. If a member accumulates:

• 4 points = 2 week (14 days) temporary ban
• 6 points = 1 month (30 days) temporary ban
• 8 points = 2 month (60 days) temporary ban
• 16 points = permanent ban

Keep in mind that there are also possible "freeform" infractions, given out at an Administrator's or Moderator's discretion. Infractions are only seen by DPF Admins and Moderators, and you will be notified when you have received an infraction.

Infractions are independent of each other, so each point will expire when its active time has lapsed. (New infractions do not get 'tacked on' to old ones -- i.e. they expire independently instead of staying active until previous infractions have expired).

The system also allows for warnings, and you will be notified if you have received a warning, as well. Warnings do not carry any point value and merely serve as a notice regarding a trend in behavior or violation of rules. Warnings will generally be issued first for any non-serious forum violations, followed by an infraction and corresponding temporary ban if the point value is reached.

Rest assured, Infractions are taken seriously by the DPF team and any major violations/infractions are discussed among admins/mods beforehand to assure that they are warranted. Minor and arbitrary infractions are left to the discretion of the individual administrator or moderator. We want DPF to continue to be the best place for pin discussion, and we hope this system encourages everyone to be on their best behavior!

Again if you see anything that is going that is wrong or that is breaking a rule on DPF report it or notify by PM a member of the Staff. We discuss in full what is going on and take action on them if needed, even if you don't see it.

I would like to make note on members calling out members that are "baiting." In my own personal opinion I understand your frustration but baiting only works if you take the bait and if you do, I feel that you are also at fault. Remember it is your choice to comment back or to just ignore.

If you have any questions or concerns please contact any member of the DPF staff.

ILuvAriel922 said:

I for one, have been attacked on this forum many times. The last time was so severe that I was banned from DPF, for the FIRST TIME I might add, for an entire year. Now, I have literally made one of my very first comments having returned and the same instigator from the event years ago immediately tries to bait me using passive aggressive behavior. That is totally inappropriate and I hope it is addressed because I know I have personally asked this individual to leave me alone; they have been added to my ignore list here, blocked on Facebook and I haven't said a word to them since having done so years ago.

This same individual OBVIOUSLY used screenshots from a direct message here and posted it elsewhere with the intent to incite drama and humiliation. NO ONE deserves that! And its clear from which end these messages are being screenshot from as senders and reply messages are highlighted differently within the message itself. So in other words, this person has not only gone out of their way to attack and harass me here, but they've also made it their mission to humiliate me on any such related forum. Even if that includes using data from YOUR forum to attack me elsewhere. In that respect, I feel at least one individual from this forum deserves to be reprimanded; the same way I was held accountable and banned here for a year is the same way all of your members should be responded to.

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Although Mike and I have not been on speaking terms, I totally agree with him. I really felt bad he defended himself against this instigator, but while he was banned the other got a slap on the wrist.
Now this was put up by an administrator, you cannot see that instigating comment " Hey look Mike is back " as already starting to bait him on. Then something is wrong with this picture. I have always said and believed because of generous zaps and donations that this member is on some kind of a preferred VIP Gold List.
It's about time to wake up and see who the real instigator is. And for us that defend ourselves, get infracted or banned.
I was told on Facebook by Someone last night to just leave the forum until I can stop being a downer and be a solution. Talk about inappropriate language that I will not repeat. One thing they said above is right, one member has their own little clique and if you respond in a negative way to said member, that members little clique comes running to the members defense.
I have been following the advice of the moderators and just blocking on Facebook and using the ignore feature here.
I'd like to thank the administrators and the moderators for their hard working and dealing with these issues. I wouldn't want your job. Thank You .

tinkerbelle1956 said:

Although Mike and I have not been on speaking terms, I totally agree with him. I really felt bad he defended himself against this instigator, but while he was banned the other got a slap on the wrist.
Now this was put up by an administrator, you cannot see that instigating comment " Hey look Mike is back " as already starting to bait him on. Then something is wrong with this picture. I have always said and believed because of generous zaps and donations that this member is on some kind of a preferred VIP Gold List.
It's about time to wake up and see who the real instigator is. And for us that defend ourselves, get infracted or banned.
I was told on Facebook by Someone last night to just leave the forum until I can stop being a downer and be a solution. Talk about inappropriate language that I will not repeat. One thing they said above is right, one member has their own little clique and if you respond in a negative way to said member, that members little clique comes running to the members defense.
I have been following the advice of the moderators and just blocking on Facebook and using the ignore feature here.
I'd like to thank the administrators and the moderators for their hard working and dealing with these issues. I wouldn't want your job. Thank You .

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You say that you are NOT the instigator and all you have done is defend yourself from attacks yet in your own words ^^^^ and in the same post^^^^ you call someone out….. I have no inclination to even try to understand how you can rationalize this kind of thinking…... it just seems pretty hypocritical to me.

Since you are on my ignore list, I will not read your comment as instructed by the moderators and administrators. I can honestly say I used no names and will just ignore that you quoted me.
I just lost my Sheltie and I'm not inciting drama. I'm working on not being a problem to this forum, but starting off on a solution.

Oh but you did name names! by typing/saying in the same paragraph "you cannot see that instigating comment " Hey look Mike is back " as already starting to bait him on" AND "that this member is on some kind of a preferred VIP Gold List"
Now anyone who has read this can plainly see that it was in fact Rasputin that made the simple observation that "Mikes back" (he is isn't he? So how exactly is that an attack or "baiting" I'm confused.)

I have no idea who Mike is and I (and I am sure there are plenty others) could care less about what issues the two of you have with Rasputin. But to say that you are not the instigator and then the both of you attack him. And the way your posts have been reading (to me anyways) is that the "solution" would be to have Rasputin banned.

ILuvAriel922 said:

I completely understand what you were saying and can't help but feel that response was a little patronizing, but using that same logic one could argue that due to certain circumstances individuals can and should still be held accountable for their third party actions elsewhere. The same way employees of an establishment, that require their employees to wear uniforms, are held responsible for their actions on and off company grounds while representing their establishment is the same way that you should approach some members here.

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The only people here that can represent DPF are its owners and possibly admin. So that is Cicada, thejessta, Bricklayer, and (maybe) dancecats. Anyone else, including the volunteer moderators, are just members of the forum.

I don't think this letter was meant to be construed as an opportunity for argument. I have a meeting to go to so I will post a bit more later.

EDIT at 4:47 p.m.

Back again with some more thoughts!

If you give someone the ability to affect you (your emotions, senses, etc.), you give them power over you.

MotherKnowsBest said:

Oh but you did name names! by typing/saying in the same paragraph "you cannot see that instigating comment " Hey look Mike is back " as already starting to bait him on" AND "that this member is on some kind of a preferred VIP Gold List"
Now anyone who has read this can plainly see that it was in fact Rasputin that made the simple observation that "Mikes back" (he is isn't he? So how exactly is that an attack or "baiting" I'm confused.)

I have no idea who Mike is and I (and I am sure there are plenty others) could care less about what issues the two of you have with Rasputin. But to say that you are not the instigator and then the both of you attack him. And the way your posts have been reading (to me anyways) is that the "solution" would be to have Rasputin banned.

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I went back on my own word and opened this. I do not dislike your husband or you. I don't want anyone banned. Why can't everyone forget the past and move on.
I know you don't care to hear this, bit I lost three months of the new year with heart issues and the artery in my neck being 85% blocked. I had gall bladder surgery with complications, My Sheltie died last night. My cat got scared and ran off. I truly want this all to end.
I wish everyone would just stop, live each day to its fullest as tomorrow is never promised.
I just felt that comment was not proper, but it is only my opinion.

You say you want to "forget the past and move on" so why did you have to bring him up? He said NOTHING to you personally did he? This is the part that I don't understand- you have said repeatedly that you want to be left alone and HE has not said a thing to YOU since the end of Febuary…. yet you openly call him out. So I ask how is this (in your words)…moving on?

I have tried my best to stay out of this but I will not sit by and let him be badmouthed when he is unable to say something himself.


Also if you know that I wouldn't "care to hear something" why bring it up in our conversation. What does any of that have to do with the current conversation? (if I wanted to read about that I could have just gone to your thread in anything goes where that kinda stuff belongs)?

I seriously don't understand, you are saying one thing and yet your actions clearly show another. So if you can clarify please do.

I think I already have. The point I was making is I was given a second chance at life and I want all the animosity to stop. I don't want to fight with anyone or cause drama. But why most he hate on Mike. I don't even speak to Mike anymore, but was that comment really necessary. He didn't mean it in the sense of I'm happy to see Mike back. You and I both know that.
Let's just Let This Go!
I'm sure you are both lovely people and you have done a lot for this community.

Ok, you say that you want all the "animosity to stop" yet you are the one that decided to say crap about Rasputin, It was your choice to make that post it and NOT just "let it go". You posted this:

"something is wrong with this picture. I have always said and believed because of generous zaps and donations that this member is on some kind of a preferred VIP Gold List.
It's about time to wake up and see who the real instigator is. And for us that defend ourselves, get infracted or banned."


I seriously do not see how saying that someone is back on DPF after time away warrants anyones undies to get into a bunch even if they are not on good terms.

Darris Has not said a WORD to you or about you since he received his (what I like to call)* Play nice or else * message from the mods. Yet you go and post crap about him when you know good and well if he says something he will most likely get banned….or is that what you are trying to do since he deserves it for being an "instigator".

lastly for someone who says we are on their ignore list you seem to be the one who can't "let it go". Also if Rasputin is that hated by Mike it would make sense for mike to have him ignored and then he would have never seen the "Mikes back" comment and none of this would have happened. I don't see how on earth what happened/happens between Mike and Darris has anything to do with you or why you had to make that post in the first place since you "don't want to fight with anyone or cause drama" unless you intention all along was to start something.

Can this end now before we have to close this thread? Both have said their piece and I will ask nicely please don't post after my post unless it has something to do with the OP.

MotherKnowsBest said:

Oh but you did name names! by typing/saying in the same paragraph "you cannot see that instigating comment " Hey look Mike is back " as already starting to bait him on" AND "that this member is on some kind of a preferred VIP Gold List"
Now anyone who has read this can plainly see that it was in fact Rasputin that made the simple observation that "Mikes back" (he is isn't he? So how exactly is that an attack or "baiting" I'm confused.)

I have no idea who Mike is and I (and I am sure there are plenty others) could care less about what issues the two of you have with Rasputin. But to say that you are not the instigator and then the both of you attack him. And the way your posts have been reading (to me anyways) is that the "solution" would be to have Rasputin banned.

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I'd love to know where I, MYSELF, have said someone's name in ANY of my posts on this thread? Don't stick me into some category because you have a crappy disposition toward me. I am so amused at how you claim to not know why your husband and I no longer communicate too. Thanks for the good laugh. You know very well your husband is trying to taunt me and he needs to stop. The same way you claim that he's left Debi alone since February, he surely makes it his prerogative to always have something to say to me when he knows very well I want nothing to do with him. Can't he just respect my wishes and leave me alone? Seriously?

starry_solo said:

The only people here that can represent DPF are its owners and possibly admin. So that is Cicada, thejessta, Bricklayer, and (maybe) dancecats. Anyone else, including the volunteer moderators, are just members of the forum.

I don't think this letter was meant to be construed as an opportunity for argument. I have a meeting to go to so I will post a bit more later.

EDIT at 4:47 p.m.

Back again with some more thoughts!

If you give someone the ability to affect you (your emotions, senses, etc.), you give them power over you.

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This is a pretty crappy response as well because you have NO RIGHT to tell another person what should or shouldn't affect them. That is a really half-***'d excuse for trying to justify his immature behavior. Baiting, instigating and taunting should not be allowed here! Stop making excuses and justifying it! I don't care if it comes from one member or several! Everyone should be treated with respect here. It's been over a year since I've been on this forum and I can't even re-join with a fresh start because even after my first comment the one person who hates me the most here is already trying to come after me.

MotherKnowsBest said:

Ok, you say that you want all the "animosity to stop" yet you are the one that decided to say crap about Rasputin, It was your choice to make that post it and NOT just "let it go". You posted this:

"something is wrong with this picture. I have always said and believed because of generous zaps and donations that this member is on some kind of a preferred VIP Gold List.
It's about time to wake up and see who the real instigator is. And for us that defend ourselves, get infracted or banned."


I seriously do not see how saying that someone is back on DPF after time away warrants anyones undies to get into a bunch even if they are not on good terms.

Darris Has not said a WORD to you or about you since he received his (what I like to call)* Play nice or else * message from the mods. Yet you go and post crap about him when you know good and well if he says something he will most likely get banned….or is that what you are trying to do since he deserves it for being an "instigator".

lastly for someone who says we are on their ignore list you seem to be the one who can't "let it go". Also if Rasputin is that hated by Mike it would make sense for mike to have him ignored and then he would have never seen the "Mikes back" comment and none of this would have happened. I don't see how on earth what happened/happens between Mike and Darris has anything to do with you or why you had to make that post in the first place since you "don't want to fight with anyone or cause drama" unless you intention all along was to start something.

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FYI he is on my "ignore" list and unfortunately the only reason I even saw his response was because when I went to view my DPF on my phone I had been automatically signed out while viewing the thread and as the page refreshed it displayed all the comments. Fact of the matter is, why can't your husband just leave me alone. I haven't said a word to or about him in years and he is really still trying to incite drama with me. Grow up!

ILuvAriel922 said:

I'd love to know where I, MYSELF, have said someone's name in ANY of my posts on this thread? Don't stick me into some category because you have a crappy disposition toward me. I am so amused at how you claim to not know why your husband and I no longer communicate too. Thanks for the good laugh. You know very well your husband is trying to taunt me and he needs to stop. The same way you claim that he's left Debi alone since February, he surely makes it his prerogative to always have something to say to me when he knows very well I want nothing to do with him. Can't he just respect my wishes and leave me alone? Seriously?





FYI he is on my "ignore" list and unfortunately the only reason I even saw his response was because when I went to view my DPF on my phone I had been automatically signed out while viewing the thread and as the page refreshed it displayed all the comments. Fact of the matter is, why can't your husband just leave me alone. I haven't said a word to or about him in years and he is really still trying to incite drama with me. Grow up!

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Ok Seriously. Dude I have no idea who you are. Sorry as much as everyone would like to think I am…..I am not my Husbands keeper. I have NEVER made excuses for his behavior or try to justify his actions and I never will. I don't make it a point to know EVERYONE he has a problem/disagreement with cause that would be crazy.

So first off……... that first post you quoted was in no way aimed at you. I didn't say it was you that named names. that was a conversation that was between me and someone else. I am sorry if you thought it was about you.

Also maybe it's just me or my ignorance as to the relationship you have with Rasputin but It was your choice to respond and not just ignore it.

If you actually go through and read my posts you will see that the only thing I am confused with is why Tinkerbelle1956 had to get involved when this had nothing to do with her in the first place, She was the one that brought up Rasputin more or less by name and called him out.

Seriously you are the one getting your undies in a twist because someone (who you claim to not give a damn about) says oh look your back, and you are going to tell me to "grow up".

Please if you are going to Quote my posts do so respectfully and correctly after you have read them thoroughly. My posts had nothing to do with you.

MotherKnowsBest said:

Ok Seriously. Dude I have no idea who you are. Sorry as much as everyone would like to think I am…..I am not my Husbands keeper. I have NEVER made excuses for his behavior or try to justify his actions and I never will. I don't make it a point to know EVERYONE he has a problem/disagreement with cause that would be crazy.

So first off……... that first post you quoted was in no way aimed at you. I didn't say it was you that named names. that was a conversation that was between me and someone else. I am sorry if you thought it was about you.

Also maybe it's just me or my ignorance as to the relationship you have with Rasputin but It was your choice to respond and not just ignore it.

If you actually go through and read my posts you will see that the only thing I am confused with is why Tinkerbelle1956 had to get involved when this had nothing to do with her in the first place, She was the one that brought up Rasputin more or less by name and called him out.

Seriously you are the one getting your undies in a twist because someone (who you claim to not give a damn about) says oh look your back, and you are going to tell me to "grow up".

Please if you are going to Quote my posts do so respectfully and correctly after you have read them thoroughly. My posts had nothing to do with you.

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I apologize if I misunderstood, but you did say: "the both of you" in reference to addressing him, which is why I thought you were talking to me. I honestly don't know why tinkerbell1956 is getting involved; as she mentioned, we aren't even on speaking terms. I don't control her actions though so I shouldn't be thrown in the mix for things she's said. I don't have anything more to say on the matter. I'm just hoping the admins can make this forum a more friendly and welcoming environment. I've come here to start fresh and I would appreciate if people with whom I don't speak to can just respect my wishes and not address me or talk to or about me. I thank you in advance for respecting my wishes and I will happily extend the same gratitude.

hopemax said:

DPF is not the state, this is not a court of law, or anything similar. It's not a business, so it's not even bound by the laws of public accommodation, like Facebook would be. This is a private website, and not bound by the same rules. If they wanted to ban someone for an arbitrary reason like collecting butt pins or for wearing their keepers on their trading lanyard, they could.

But if we are going to continue on this sort of equivalencies. People are routinely denied from something after something happened somewhere else. If something turns up in a background check, people are denied employment or housing. Few would interview, let alone hire anyone even suspected of fraud or embezzlement to handle money for them. Few would offer housing to anyone with a history of crimes against children, if there was a chain of evidence even if there was no conviction. Canada will deny entry into their country for someone convicted of a DUI, if they don't have a waiver. What you do in one place, routinely has consequences somewhere else. And I'm pretty sure that if someone were to learn that their location was the place where a suspected criminal "found" their victims, they would take whatever steps were at that disposal to deny that person future access, even if the actual "incident" happened elsewhere. And being a private website, DPF has a lot of steps.

I understand DPF can't react to everything, everywhere at anytime. But this is a repeating situation, that has escalated to the point where they felt the need to make a public statement. This isn't just he said/she said, there apparently were 3 walls of "evidence," and I'm guessing there are probably also personal communications and in person incidents. Extraordinary situations, require unique resolutions. It's not that DPF CAN'T do anything, it's that they are choosing not to, and then claiming false equivalences for their inaction. The thing is, I'm not even involved in what is going on. Don't do Facebook, don't even have a personal page. Not part of any group of friends that has been affected by this. But we all know this situation has been going on a long time, and has contributed to numerous drama bombs going off here. And then this wall of "can't do anything"... it's routinely given as a reason to let injustices continue, especially when it comes with bullying. So seeing it play out here, as a bystander is depressing and discouraging.

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You articulated this beautifully, expressed it much better than I did. Thank you for making more sense than me!
This is exactly it, though. If someone were a known pin scammer on Facebook, would they be allowed to join and participate here? I would assume not. The same aspects should apply to people who are known to engage in behavior that includes bullying and harassment, ( on Facebook, of whom also hold membership here). Wouldn't this be classified as drama? Is that not cause for infraction? Perhaps a new infraction option could be added to the list, one that reprimands derogatory actions both on and off the site? Of course for punishment to be administered there would have to be an abundance of valid proof to prove the claim, but perhaps it or something like it could be an option?

I hope this makes sense, I'm typing from my phone so my thoughts may be a bit muddled

ElysionsPrincess said:

Perhaps a new infraction option could be added to the list, one that reprimands derogatory actions both on and off the site? Of course for punishment to be administered there would have to be an abundance of valid proof to prove the claim, but perhaps it or something like it could be an option?

I hope this makes sense, I'm typing from my phone so my thoughts may be a bit muddled

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So you want the mods to be the "Thought police?"

Basically your are saying that if I post on FB that "Pin traders are some of the neediest, self entitled people that I have ever known", I should get a "Thought" infraction here because I have an opinion?

Here is an idea! Why don't the mods write into the code that automatically deletes any negative words that are posted? Yes lets censor words since they hurt us so much" [sarcasm]

As I have said before and guess I need to say it again, IF something bothers someone (anyone) there are steps to take to end it.

fordracing31 said:

Can this end now before we have to close this thread? Both have said their piece and I will ask nicely please don't post after my post unless it has something to do with the OP.

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I am at a loss to understand after one mod asked nicely not to post anything else in this thread, why there are 5 posts containing discussion not directed towards the first post, as was asked, but commenting on other comments in the thread.

Once Dancecats logs in, and can lock the thread (as they posted it), it will be locked and looked at by the mods very closely.

Rasputin said:

So you want the mods to be the "Thought police?"

Basically your are saying that if I post on FB that "Pin traders are some of the neediest, self entitled people that I have ever known", I should get a "Thought" infraction here because I have an opinion?

Here is an idea! Why don't the mods write into the code that automatically deletes any negative words that are posted? Yes lets censor words since they hurt us so much" [sarcasm]

As I have said before and guess I need to say it again, IF something bothers someone (anyone) there are steps to take to end it.

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There is an immense difference between an "opinion" and then an entire page dedicated to the slander and harmful words used to harass, humiliate, and detriment the experience for other pin traders. Extreme cases are what I am referring to. As previously stated in my first comment on the first page, I understand the idea that people can simply "not look" and to not engage. However it makes more sense to take steps to punish and prevent the instigators than it does to tell the
victims to ignore it. That is what rules are for.

ElysionsPrincess said:

There is an immense difference between an "opinion" and then an entire page dedicated to the slander and harmful words used to harass, humiliate, and detriment the experience for other pin traders. Extreme cases are what I am referring to. As previously stated in my first comment on the first page, I understand the idea that people can simply "not look" and to not engage. However it makes more sense to take steps to punish and prevent the instigators than it does to tell the
victims to ignore it. That is what rules are for.

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I get that, but that is not the job of the mods here on this forum. It is laughable to try to censor someone on here for something they said somewhere else on the internet. Unless it is a physical threat, not because someone's feelings might have gotten hurt.

I like the stance that DPF is taking. if there is action relating to pins off DPF (like a pinpics trade gone bad), then DPF mods can help. but if its action not relating to pins off DPF (traders fighting and being mean on FB), then DPF mods are not involved.

lets face it, we are all adults. if someone posts stuff we dont like on FB or Twitter or Tumblr or IG or wherever, we should either block them or ignore them.

What people are trying to say is that what is posted elsewhere should have no repercussions here. This is why if someone is a "known scammer" elsewhere in the pin world they should still be allowed to be part of this community until they mess up or try pulling something here. That is why people PM their lists of scammer,bad ebay sellers, etc. I am pretty sure in that instance it would get around the grapevine very quick. DPF on the other hand really can't ban them from here because someone says they are a bad trader. From everything I have read DPF can only ban them if they pull that kind of stuff on this forum.

I don't follow any of the Facebook garbage by choice because I find it to be just that….Garbage. I do not feel that what people say/do elsewhere should have repercussions here on DPF.

Rasputin said:

Unless it is a physical threat, not because someone's feelings might have gotten hurt.

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AKA the difference between objectivity and subjectivity. The minute mods start making rules and judgements based on the subjectivity of a report, I guess I'm not sure I'll be hanging out 'round here too much longer. I believe that to moderate something is to remain objective. And to think that for a SECOND the moderators at DPF can police Facebook, Tumblr, Instagram and other online communities looking for instances of perceived hurt feelings is as hilarious as it is ridiculous. And I like the mods here, but come on, they are not the internet police.

I am constantly floored by the fact that people honestly can't just ignore something and move on. Don't like it? Don't read it. The number of people I block from FB, Instagram and Tumblr due to their posts that don't jive well with me is staggering. But I don't make posts on those networks bemoaning their choices and activities, because what am I going to get out of that? Nothing. Someone rips me off? Absolutely I'll report it and be very vocal about it because OBJECTIVELY I AND OTHERS COULD BE OUT MONEY. (I.E. I either got my item or I didn't, no gray area that could be left to interpretation.)

Yeesh.

I humbly disagree. All because physical threats are not made does not mean that harassment is not a threat. For many individuals emotional wounds can turn into something more dire if not addressed.

Personally, I find it deplorable that individuals of whom are known members here are allowed to make such comments off the site when they are just that; KNOWN members. Especially when their ammo for their comments is coming from here, DPF. That is where the problem lies. All because I can chose to ignore someone's post doesn't mean they are not still reading mine and making horrendous "confessions" about me elsewhere. Yes, it is "garbage". Garbage that a ton of well-known members of this site took part of willingly, and enjoyed doing it.

I find this aspect of victim blaming quite ludicrous. It is not the harassed person's fault that they are being harassed. It is the harasser. Why tell the victim to just "ignore it" while the individual causing the trauma gets to continue with no repercussion? The harassers have become smart enough to move the drama off of DPF so that they do not get in trouble. And herein lies the problem. In order for this type of behavior to stop, there needs to be some kind of connecting link between separate sites, and new methods of infractions based upon this linkage.

I am not suggesting that every time someone makes a semi-rude comment they get an infraction here. That would be outlandish and completely unrealistic for the mods to handle. I am suggesting that if someone has documented forms of extreme harassment over the coarse of time, and presents this to the mods, that there should be some sort of new infraction administered to the harasser.

I would be more than willing to assist in this type of system. This is something I believe in strongly, and I want it to end. If this sort of victim blaming continues, I will be leaving this site of my own free will. It is horrifying that in this day and age, people are allowed to do whatever they please, and the victim is just being told "don't look". Entire rights movements have started because groups of people were told to just "ignore it".

I feel that it would be for the betterment of DPF as a whole to enforce some new details on the infraction system: particularly the part about "drama". Drama on and off the site (in extreme cases), should be cause for infraction. I feel that if this was elaborated upon, there would be less confusion, less rule-breaking, less instigating, and less hurt going around the forum. DPF is not the place it once was, and I strongly believe that all of this nonsensical drama is part of the cause of this.

I truly do appreciate the mods' efforts to put an end to the drama. Even addressing it alone is a huge step forward, and I for one am extremely grateful for it. I want it to be known that I truly do not want any argument to ensue from this, and all I want is to help DPF to become a more welcoming place for all pin traders again. I do hope that my posts are read as on topic, for that was and is my intention.

The internet is a very public place. (I am in no way defending the actions of others I am just trying to make a point.) I have learned FIRST HAND just how vicious and fake some people can be online. There is a reason I don't post all that much on public forums and why I will NEVER post pictures of my kids, collections and only pictures of myself after careful consideration ever again. You will hardly ever see me post anything about my personal life so openly as some do online (it's cool if you are comfortable doing that, I am not). the point that I think is trying to be made is that there is nothing that can be done by moderators here (on DPF) to stop people from using what someone says or dose here from using it elsewhere. This is a VERY public forum, people don't even have too be registered members to view, copy, print or screen shot posts. (Dpf can make this a private forum but I think that would turn potential members away) If you don't want what you say openly and publicly to be spread throughout the web don't say anything in such an open and very public way…..

I have recently cut my Facebook to family and only friends that I consider my family and have made it as private as I can. I also know that it is not guaranteed that what I post on my personal Facebook may eventually end up all over the internet.

now a days you have to be smart and what you say/share/post online.