1. The question was asked in regards to realizing you know longer have a pin after you put it on your table. For those unfamiliar with the process, you can add and remove pins up until a few hours before the Trade Arcade starts. But then the tables are locked, and you can't change out pins anymore.
In regards to this specific reasoning IMO, it is the trader's responsibility to verify they have a pin before putting it on their table or to consider alternatives if they trade it (obtaining one elsewhere), or just reject offers. Everyone is busy, everyone's pins are in various states of organization, we're all in the same boat, and many of us find a way to review our pins anyway.
In regards to Pidge's desire to swap out a dud pin. Sometimes we pick a good table, sometimes we don't. It's disappointing when a grail pin is listed and removed before TA starts, it would be annoying if it happened during, especially because I usually wait to send offers until Saturday evening, Sunday morning when I have seen how the rest of TA is going. If I was the only person who was super ISO that pin and didn't get around to making my offer quick enough, and then it's gone, I would be disappointed.
2. This is one of the very big deals for me. The argument against usually involves the practicality and logistics of how it would work. What if one of the pins involved in the trade turns out to be a fake, or has a serious flaw and is rejected? How does P&P get properly compensated given the inspection and verification process is long enough as it is? Other questions of this nature.
But for me, my reasoning is something else entirely. IMO, Trade Arcades work so well is because they give people an opportunity to make the successful trades they can't do otherwise. Which I think are the smaller value trades. The ones people won't make via mail because postage costs are so high or you are worried about trading for a fake. The ones people don't make in person because "they left that pin at home." Or their table is occupied with other people and you didn't want to wait. Or you missed it while scanning a book. Or you can just tell, they aren't interested in your little stuff at the moment and politely or not-politely reject. Or a dozen other reasons. In the context of the TA, people are more willing to make these little trades, you get to interact with more people simultaneously, than you ever could in real life, etc. The volume of accepted trades that don't happen, except to the more extroverted traders with lots of opportunities for in person trading, is what powers people's excitement, anticipation and participation in future TAs. IMO, these are the trades that "prime the pump." Disrupting this flow will lead to unintended consequences that will go unforeseen by most people.
It's easy to say, "I'll gladly give these 2-3 pins for that one," but what about the rest of the process? People hate that people sit on offers. Do you think that's going to get better or worse when people don't want to accept any of their 1-for-1s offers on a pin, because they included it in a multi-trade offer to someone else? Is the pin you want to offer 2 pins for, even available or does *that* person want to bundle it on an even higher value pin. People with $200 pins will want to trade for $500 pins, people with $100 pins will want to trade for $200 pins, people with $50 pins will want to trade for $100 pin, people with Hidden Disney chasers will want to bundle them for WDI pins, people with hidden Disney pins will want to bundle them for LE pins, etc. People don't like the "spray and pray" offers, what kind of offer would you expect if people can bundle? 100 pins for your 1? The line, trading will back up until a clog somewhere along the way is cleared. But with 400 participants, there are already a lot of clogs waiting on acceptances. It's a way to introduce a lot of paralysis; everyone waiting because something else needs a resolution first, even if you aren't the one making or receiving the multi-trade offer. I expect the result is the opposite of what people imagine the benefit is... more trades for better pins And simply many pins will be tied up at the expense of successful 1-for-1 trades.
While people who successfully make a multi-trade for a bigger pin would probably sacrifice smaller trades, their theoretical 1-for-1 trade partners may end up losing the only trades they make. Or lose out on a pin that was a grail, since I expect successful multi-trades will include wanted pins, not someone's pins with zero offers. More rejections, fewer trades and those negative emotions are the ones that keep people from participating. You can see it in some of the messages here, when people don't make a lot of trades or trade too much for refreshing traders not ISOs. All the other trading opportunities in-person, Pinpics, Facebook, Reddit, Instagram provide an opportunity for multi-trades. This forum used to be one of those places too, and could be again if people simply started trade threads, listing the pins they would want to receive multi-trade offers for, and do a "regular" by mail trade. There are other ways to accomplish that goal.
I do not want to ruin the magic sauce of what makes Trade Arcades work.
3. I am a strong introvert, and most negotiations trigger my anxiety. If it's not an easy offer like swapping pins between the same or similar mystery set or series pin, I have a hard time. So I don't do it. I love the anonymous nature of the offer system. I trust that the process works, so questions about authenticity will be resolved by the inspection. I use my logbook to mark cards and condition. I wished more people trusted the process instead of trying to turn P&P into the same as other trading venues. Pin & Pop is different for a reason. Let it be different. I know your pin being tied up for a month for an unsuccessful trade is an issue, however. I list my name in my table name, and don't mind that they know who I am when they make an offer, as it might relieve questions about authenticity or encourage them to find a comparable pin if they have an ISO of mine. But that is my choice, and one others may not make. A friend just shared that they were contacted on Pinpics about a pin they had listed on Pin & Pop as an example of how uncomfortable and far other people will take it to try and get your pin. And for years people will ask if they can buy your keepers. Just because what you want to convey is innocuous, doesn't mean other people wouldn't use it to be aggressive.
4. Offer retractions. This is another area where I think people are so focused in on their POV, that they miss that their expectations and other people's expectations are going to be in direct opposition with each other. There is no winning answer, just determining who loses. I get "you" doesn't want to lose. Not everyone has the same schedule, some people want to see multiple offers before deciding, some people just need "to sleep on it." These should all be okay; allow people to trade at the speed they are most comfortable. If you have real life commitments and the only time you can look is Sunday morning, you know pins offered may be greyed out, but you're not going to remain an active participant if the bulk of your offers get pulled because the other trader got tired of waiting.
I do agree there is an issue with duplicate trades, and can envision a system that upon acceptance of a pin, causes all your outstanding offers for that pin to pop up and confirm you want to keep or cancel that offer. Like the flip side of greyed out pins when a pin is no longer available. You may lose out on a trade because you waited too long to accept either because the person traded away the pin they offered you OR they traded *for* the pin they offered on.
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My expanded commentary is that the suggestions people make hint at real issues, but in a way that doesn't really solve what the core issue is, IMO. So what are those core issues?
1. Valuations and bad offers. Traders have been complaining about unfair pin offers for 25 years. Newbies get the bulk of the blame. I don't think it's the newbies that are the problem. You can tell the true newbie unfair offers. They often don't have a lot of traders so they offer you only a handful in their offer. Sometimes only one pin in an offer. Those don't seem to get people riled up. Easy click and move on. Same as you can tell when someone is offering their best pins on a valuable pin but still coming up short, but they shot their shot. It's the offers with many pins, often duplicated, hinting at an extensive trader list, made on multiple of your pins, yet never equal value. Those are the ones that drive people up a wall. I've actually been surprised in a good way, that when I list my best pins or pins that I have left a comment that I'm looking for X in trade, I don't really get that many offers and most of them are within a realm of possibility depending on differences in values / interests. Most people seem conscientious. But then there is the 47 pin offer of commons with a few discount store LEs thrown in.
Suggestion: Allow people to block people from sending you additional requests for the rest of the Trade Arcade, and hide any other sent offers. I'm sure some would want to permanently block these people permanently, but I don't think Jenn & Chris would go that far (not even as far as my suggestion). Maybe after a few unsuccessful TAs they would change their offer strategy, so I don't want to jump to permablock. But unless the offerer experiences negative consequences, I don't expect changes because this strategy *has* been successful for them, which is why they do it.
Suggestion 2: Fix the offer system, so that duplicates are not selected by default and need to be individually selected. Not only would it make these offer lists visibly shorter, it would also allow a way for people to submit an offer with a pin that they have on their table but also have a duplicate, and not have the person pick the one on the table (there would also need to be a label to identify which pin is listed) by offering the non-table version only.
2. The Wild Wild West nature of other parts of the pin community. Fake pins, scammers, ghosting. Pin & Pop's verification and authentication process (and single package shipping) is such a benefit I can see why people want to use it for all their online trades. Especially, multi-pin, high value trades. But if Pin & Pop becomes "Just like everywhere else, but cheaper and with less risk!" then it won't have the same appeal to people who didn't like the other places for reasons outside of cost / risk (negotiations, complexities of multi-trades, etc. )
Suggestion: Leave Trade Arcade 1-for-1 but outside of Trade Arcade weekends, offer a service to VIP members where they can pay an additional fee to have non-Trade Arcade arranged multi-pin trades go through the process. This is an expansion of an old process where Pinpics or Forum moderators (like Dizpins or here) would assist in making big trades, in both parties would ship to a moderator and then when both ends were received, the pins forwarded on. This gave people the security to know that they wouldn't be scammed out of their pins for the price of extra shipping. It could encourage paying for an annual VIP membership. Trades could be shipped (clearly marked as being special trades) with Trade Arcade pins and returned with TA pins, so it wouldn't cost anymore in shipping, and nominal extra time in wrapping and unwrapping pins. The fee would be to make sure P&P is compensated for the additional work and people limited themselves to important multi-trade opportunites. There will still be things to work out if one of the pins turns out to be fake or rejected for issues.
3. No good status for "trades in process." I sort of already covered this in my response about #4, the possibility of ending up with duplicate trades because of outstanding offers is something that should be improved upon. Along the same lines... pins you accepted in the current or previous TA, but still are listed as an ISO. I feel sad when people offer me a pin, especially when I've marked it a grail, that I am waiting to receive, because I'm sure they are hopeful I will accept. I don't remove pins as ISOs until the pin status changes to Next to Ship, not before. I watched The West Wing, I know what happens when you tempt "The wrath from high atop the thing."
Suggestion: Add another status like Owned, ISO, Grail called Pending. When people are selecting their pins to offer these pins show up on a new tab called Pending, not the ISO, Interest or Owned tab, and they can see that you are already getting that particular pin.
4. I think I had more, but this is gotten pretty long. I may be back later.
