Pin Thief...

This whole thread has distorted the true story so much! I may be an "internet" gangster and have framed this poor soul? Seriously?

This was a private party at my home for Cinco de Mayo. It was not a trading event. My family are not internet gangsters. My husband is a retired, disabled veteran of 22 years of service and I am a Registered Nurse with two kids. The majority of attendees at the party were people I consider good friends. We have only lived in CA for a few years, and a majority of the people we have befriended , also happen to be pin traders as that is one of our hobbies. The man who stole the pins had never been to my home before. He is also a nurse and is often at the parks trading. He seemed friendly and social, and I just thought I was making a new friend. There was no deep seeded, government operation to frame him. No CIA or MacGuyver stuff, O.K. guys? His claim is that he was so intoxicated just before he left to work and that he was not in the right state of mind. (which in itself is questionable as morals go). And that when he opened his pin bag he just "saw the pins thrown in there". So he just kept them and was attempting to trade them off. He was fricken stupid enough to wear the Lion King Beloved Tales to My-D Pins trading event ; he was probably unaware it had a production error that made it identifiable. I'm not going to re-hash the whole thing. He did publicly admit, on Facebook that he "found the pins thrown in his pin bag" and may have been framed by "these confessions people". Do you know why people were bashed on Confessions for the most part? BECAUSE THEY DID THE MOST ASININE THINGS. As far as the recording goes, it was never released publicly. It was shown to the attendees of the party to confirm that he was responsible. As far as I know, stealing $1500 in pins is also a crime which is called Grand theft. Don't even get me started on the Nurse Practice Act and morality and conscience and respect for others people's homes and property.

But if you want to forgive and forget what this this person did , then feel free to invite him over to your home and let him eat your fabulous tacos and drink your alcohol and spend time with your kids.

As far as Ozzie goes, well...I love him. He is a huge, loud mouth drama queen! But--he has integrity, he is honest, he is thoughtful and trustworthy. And in the end, isn't that what counts in the pin trading world?

He has been alone in my home with my little one and I don't have to worry that he is going to steal things from THE PIN ROOM . His actions have always been awesome towards me and my family and he knows he is welcome at any parties at my home.

Having worked as a paralegal for over 20 years does in fact give me the experience needed to explain what the law is and is far more relevant than simply "working at a university makes me a professor" I have given ZERO legal advice btw so stfu. I have done this job nearly as long as you have been alive, I know what I am talking about.

It is pretty clear that the OP of this thread is in fact Ozzie using one if his many fake accounts. My problem with Ozzie is well known and has never been hidden. Search for STOPSHILLINGSTUPID and read the GOOD BYE DPF thread by Ozzie1988 and this time people actually READ the entire post! Read the ebay message where Ozzie confesses right here on DPF to shilling his auctions on ebay with the help of his friend, a girl that gave him a BATB PODM which that pin along with nearly every other one he had listed was being shilled by her as she was also bidding on them to increase the price! He is dishonest at best and having shown and told this entire forum exactly who he is HIMSELF I find it beyond belief that anyone would continue to come to his defense.

This is is my last response on this ridiculous and all to familiar Ozzie style drama witch hunt. This is he exact type of drama that should be expected from the creators of the Confessions Facebook page.....the lowest and shadiest of them all.

For the record NOTHING I said in any post was directed at Grapesoda. I have sent her a pm explaining this in detail. I am also not a "forgive and forget" kind of person when it comes to stealing. I was simply saying I don't believe anything Ozzie says.

Molly said:

Having worked as a paralegal for over 20 years does in fact give me the experience needed to explain what the law is and is far more relevant than simply "working at a university makes me a professor" I have given ZERO legal advice btw so stfu. I have done this job nearly as long as you have been alive, I know what I am talking about.

It is pretty clear that the OP of this thread is in fact Ozzie using one if his many fake accounts. My problem with Ozzie is well known and has never been hidden. Search for STOPSHILLINGSTUPID and read the GOOD BYE DPF thread by Ozzie1988 and this time people actually READ the entire post! Read the ebay message where Ozzie confesses right here on DPF to shilling his auctions on ebay with the help of his friend, a girl that gave him a BATB PODM which that pin along with nearly every other one he had listed was being shilled by her as she was also bidding on them to increase the price! He is dishonest at best and having shown and told this entire forum exactly who he is HIMSELF I find it beyond belief that anyone would continue to come to his defense.

This is is my last response on this ridiculous and all to familiar Ozzie style drama witch hunt. This is he exact type of drama that should be expected from the creators of the Confessions Facebook page.....the lowest and shadiest of them all.

For the record NOTHING I said in any post was directed at Grapesoda. I have sent her a pm explaining this in detail. I am also not a "forgive and forget" kind of person when it comes to stealing. I was simply saying I don't believe anything Ozzie says.

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Being a paralegal for 20 years makes you a paralegal, nothing more, nothing less. While you may not understand the correlation, but working near a profession does not make you the expert on that profession. It's not job through osmosis. As far as it being clear that this is Ozzies account, I'd use your benefits to get your eyes checked as Ozzie and I aren't the same person. Again to quote you, do not speak on the subjects that you are not knowledgeable of. The only thing you are doing is digging a larger hole for yourself. Stick to begin for pins at cost and whining when you can't find things.

Molly said:

Having worked as a paralegal for over 20 years does in fact give me the experience needed to explain what the law is and is far more relevant than simply "working at a university makes me a professor" I have given ZERO legal advice btw so stfu. I have done this job nearly as long as you have been alive, I know what I am talking about.

It is pretty clear that the OP of this thread is in fact Ozzie using one if his many fake accounts. My problem with Ozzie is well known and has never been hidden. Search for STOPSHILLINGSTUPID and read the GOOD BYE DPF thread by Ozzie1988 and this time people actually READ the entire post! Read the ebay message where Ozzie confesses right here on DPF to shilling his auctions on ebay with the help of his friend, a girl that gave him a BATB PODM which that pin along with nearly every other one he had listed was being shilled by her as she was also bidding on them to increase the price! He is dishonest at best and having shown and told this entire forum exactly who he is HIMSELF I find it beyond belief that anyone would continue to come to his defense.

This is is my last response on this ridiculous and all to familiar Ozzie style drama witch hunt. This is he exact type of drama that should be expected from the creators of the Confessions Facebook page.....the lowest and shadiest of them all.

For the record NOTHING I said in any post was directed at Grapesoda. I have sent her a pm explaining this in detail. I am also not a "forgive and forget" kind of person when it comes to stealing. I was simply saying I don't believe anything Ozzie says.

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what LOL

if you read the messages i explained the situation but in your crazy eyes i was shilling.

i was telling you one of the bidders was a friend who wanted the PODM she asked me after i listed it and it had bids so i told her to bid it to win it. talk about witch hunts you made a fake account on Ebay and DPF to harass me online then attacked people by PM when they commented on the DPF post. believe what you want hypocrite

if you think JMW1976 is me why not PM a mod/correspondent and ask they can see the origin and IPs of each account.

Stop the madness...

I can attest to the "fact" that Ozzie and the original poster(Josh) of this thread are indeed two different people. Kind of weird they would be "assumed" to be one in the same. And, if the assumption cannot be proven, why would someone post these falsehoods before even knowing for absolute certainty or even at all? Seems a bit odd to me. I thought we weren't supposed to be tagging names to "so called accusations" either. Shouldn't some of the above posts be edited or removed?

Molly said:

It is pretty clear that the OP of this thread is in fact Ozzie using one if his many fake accounts.

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Josh and Ozzie are two completely different people indeed. I have traded with the OP (Josh) and exchanged several PMs in the past few months.

Although I have not met him in person (yet), he has been always kind and generous and wiling to help out. I would not think for a minute that he would be making false statements about something as serious as pin theft.

I will concur with the sentiment that having a list of bad traders/sellers is a good idea. I know we have feedback threads for a reason, but so many scammers/cheaters will use other outlets (such as Facebook or private pin events), to do their dirty work. I know these incidents are not related to DPF, and I understand the separation. But so long as it is just members reporting on other members' behavior, I don't see how this would be different than the feedback we already leave?

On another forum I am a part of, there is a "Problem Transaction" sub forum. Here, members can create threads whenever a transaction goes awry. First they start with "Paging ___ (insert member name here)" to get their attention. Then, periodically, mods check to see when the person was last online (this is the extent of the moderator involvement. Everything else is done by only the members). If the member who is being paged does not resolve the issue within a certain time frame, or with no communication, they are banned from the marketplace. If they continue to practice dishonest behavior, then they are banned from the site. This helps members see who not to deal with (if they have current issues already). And in theory, it shouldn't prove to be too much work for the moderators. Maybe it could be something to look in to?

(Real names, email addresses, and in extremely sever cases, addresses are given on this other site. I think real names and e-mail addresses should be tolerated here, but addresses may be a bit too much, unless it was very very serious!)

This person wears very high-end pins on his lanyard. I have always admired his lanyards but now it makes me wonder how did he acquire so many nice pins? I sure hope it wasn't due to "sticky fingers". This whole situation is very sad. You just don't know who to trust anymore.

jmw1976 said:

The Lion King BT and Designer Belle belonged to the same person and the pins were returned, along with the two frozen pins from DSSH. This isn't the first time the accused has been said to have sticky fingers, but this is the first time he's been caught. Despite Molly's personal bias against Ozzie1988...I am the poster of this information on DPF and only did so after all items were returned. I am Also one of a handful of witness to what had occurred when he was confronted at a trading event. The situation isn't made up and harm has still been done because the person who he traded the Belle to was dragged into this and there are several people thinking that it's ok to steal or he apologized so move on...nope.

there are several other comments throughout this post that having nothing to do with anything regarding the original post, but are only meant to inflame or create further issues...please stop, your legal advice isnt warranted (you aren't a lawyer) and working at a law firm makes you one as much as me working at a university makes me a physics professor. unless you have the facts, please stop commenting, you aren't helping the situation. If you want the names used by the thief, message me, I'll provide what is known.

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jmw1976 said:

Being a paralegal for 20 years makes you a paralegal, nothing more, nothing less. While you may not understand the correlation, but working near a profession does not make you the expert on that profession. It's not job through osmosis. As far as it being clear that this is Ozzies account, I'd use your benefits to get your eyes checked as Ozzie and I aren't the same person. Again to quote you, do not speak on the subjects that you are not knowledgeable of. The only thing you are doing is digging a larger hole for yourself. Stick to begin for pins at cost and whining when you can't find things.

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I too can attest that jmw1976 is NOT Ozzie. Did you READ this post and others made by jmw1976??? There is no way Ozzie wrote them...

Ozzie's grammar is HORRIBLE. :lol:

[ Sorry hunty!! No harm, just playin' ]

Molly said:

@rik Regardless of the recording device or possible speaker phone, recording a phone call without BOTH PARTIES (the two people on each end of the connected call) being fully aware that it is being recorded is against the law period. Doesn't matter if you record it on a old timey phonograph, cell phone, wire tap, answering machine, greeting card etc. I can only speak on current laws in CA but I am absolutely positive on his as we just had this come up a couple of months ago in my office and the judge was extremely pissed off at opposing council for trying to argue something very similar to your speaker phone negates a private/confidential call example. Clearly if and when someone is told that their call will be recorded there are things that would never be said or the person opposed to being recorded simply hangs up.

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Nope, that is absolutely not true... It only applies to "confidential communication". That _would_ be a phone call where you have the receiver to your ear, and the other party has the receiver to their ear, thus no one else can 'reasonably' overhear the conversation.

Problem is, on cell phones (most of them, anyway), there's no way to record a conversation like that. The only way to easily record a conversation is to have it on speaker phone and record it with another device. Once on speaker, the conversation is no longer considered 'confidential' as anyone in the vicinity can over hear it. In that situation, the two-person rule DOES NOT APPLY. (the Two-person rule is the rule that all involved parties must give consent).

Specifically, we are talking about CA Penal Code 632 (which deals with recording a phone call or conversation), Paragraph C (which defines 'Confidential Communication':

(c) The term "confidential communication" includes any communication carried on in circumstances as may reasonably indicate that any party to the communication desires it to be confined to the parties thereto, but excludes a communication made in a public gathering or in any legislative, judicial, executive or administrative proceeding open to the public, or in any other circumstance in which the parties to the communication may reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded.

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Paragraph A states that it is illegal to record 'confidential communications', which we already know:

(a) Every person who, intentionally and without the consent of all parties to a confidential communication, by means of any electronic amplifying or recording device, eavesdrops upon or records the confidential communication, whether the communication is carried on among the parties in the presence of one another or by means of a telegraph, telephone, or other device, except a radio, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

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In your case, if the speaker-phone conversation is being held a company office between two parties, it is assumed that the conversation is confidential between all parties participating in the room of the conference call.

If you were having the conference call on a speaker phone in a restaurant, or somewhere public, or even in a place where non-employees of your company can go (like the front lobby depending on your building layout), that would fall under this rule. Sounds like an attorney was trying to stretch the law a little to get someone off, but if everyone that can hear the conversation was invited to participate, then the fact that they could all hear it on a speaker doesn't mean it's not confidential.

In this case (the pin recording), if the person was standing in the DSF making the call on speaker phone, there's absolutely no laws against him recording it, since anyone in the area could be recording anything and pick it up accidentally... If he was at his house, by himself, then that's another matter...

So, yeah, just being on speaking phone doesn't negate the law, it's basically having the phone call in a place where anyone can overhear it (thus no assumed confidentiality to the call).

I have no idea of the situation where the person recorded this phone call, but you can't just arbitrarily state that it's illegal to record call without full consent of all parties in CA, since that's not always true.