Pinpics....Guidelines for "Scrapper" designation?

[Allib]

My daughter has been trading on Pinpics for several years and we have really enjoyed it and have been able to make close to 100 trades and we have gotten some great pins in the process. One trend I have noticed over the years is that anyone can label a pin as a "scrapper", they can add a big alert that says that says it is being sold from China directly to the US or that they found a pin with an odd color or a spec of dust that didn't seem to fit with that of a true Disney pin, I even saw a post about a year ago in which someone commented that their pin didn't "smell like a Disney pin should"! I fall in the camp of just trading for fun and not letting the scrapper issue ruin the hobby for my kids but, in my opinion, it has become increasingly difficult (ie less fun) to trade on Pinpics becuase you have several people that receive a pin and do everything short of sending it NASA to confirm it's real becuase they saw a warning on Pinpics. We trade far less than we use to on PP and I think part of the problem is people are put off with so many pins having a warning. I wonder if it would be possible to have some sort of rating system or a more objective system for labeling a pin as a possible scrapper? For instance a check box that says "I beleive I aquired a scrapper of this pin"....If the number of people that chekced this was 200 pretty good chance it was a legit concern. If it was only 1 person probably not a real concern. I just think it is far to easy for one person to throw out a warning as the system works now, not necessarily with ill intentions but I think it would be crazy to believe that every pin Disney sold was perfect.

 

[earthbound]

I tend to agree with your comments - I have almost stopped trading on PinPics due to the concerns re counterfeit pins, but then again the pins I have for trade are not that highly sought after therefore the trade requests are few & far between!! There are an increasing amount of comments being put up on PP re "scrappers" etc, some of which have no real substance behind them & are just a 1 off - different colour tint for example. I'd agree that more detail would be nice to help the collectors determine what is good & what isn't, but how far do you go?? Dan has put up an informative thread with his opinions which I respect. My collection is mostly made up of Cast Lanyard & Hidden Mickey pins which I try to get hold of as quickly as possible BEFORE the scrappers/counterfeits/fakes come into circulation & the adverse comments start.
I beleive it would be impossible to list all the scrapped/counterfeit/fake pins with their different variants - far too many, but we as a community could go some way to helping each other with our personal comments under a suitable thread

 

[Whitney]

...for instance a check box that says "i believe i acquired a scrapper of this pin"...

brilliant!

 

[Bellecat22]

Sadly, I don't trade very often on pinpics anymore either because of all the fakes out there either. I just recently received a fake pin, not a scrapper, a counterfeit. Please see Dan's post about Scrapper's vs other pins. It was a WDI pin. It looked real, I thought I needed this pin, I found the same pin at home and I compared the two side by side and was trying to figure out what was wrong with the one I traded for. It was printed on the wrong metal. It wasn't on gold, silver or black, it was copper! I emailed the person that I traded with and gave them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they didn't know they had counterfeit pins? Even though everyday for months I had received offers for only WDI pins from them I still was honest and emailed and asked if they knew their pin was not real. Well I never heard from them again, never got another request and now I have a fake WDI Gus nametag. It's a very good fake and whoever is making them you are doing a superb job.

 

[Allib]

Sadly, I don't trade very often on pinpics anymore either because of all the fakes out there either. I just recently received a fake pin, not a scrapper, a counterfeit. Please see Dan's post about Scrapper's vs other pins. It was a WDI pin. It looked real, I thought I needed this pin, I found the same pin at home and I compared the two side by side and was trying to figure out what was wrong with the one I traded for. It was printed on the wrong metal. It wasn't on gold, silver or black, it was copper! I emailed the person that I traded with and gave them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they didn't know they had counterfeit pins? Even though everyday for months I had received offers for only WDI pins from them I still was honest and emailed and asked if they knew their pin was not real. Well I never heard from them again, never got another request and now I have a fake WDI Gus nametag. It's a very good fake and whoever is making them you are doing a superb job.

I'm not saying your wrong about the pin but I think it's a good example of how someone can just throw out the word "scrapper", "fake", "counterfit", "unauthorized", or any other term without really knowing for certain that it is. I think it would be safe to say that disney sells hundreds of thousands of pins each year, probably hundreds if not thousand of new styles each year. I am sure they have a QC process but like any other QC process it wouldn't involve looking at every pin, just a sample. Maybe the factory making the WDI badges stamped out 250 and ran out of one color of metal and somebody just decided to use another...who knows. How does anyone know what metal the pins is suppose to be on and does anyone think the QC guy at Disney who looks at thousand of products a day is as anal as some of the pin collectors are? Again I'm not saying you are wrong but if you are talking about pin 55964, there are 17 people trading an LE of 300 which seems reasonable. I can't imagine that someone would take the time, effort, and expense to counterfiet an $8 pin and only make a couple of pins to trade, several hundred would make more sence. So let's say based on your observation you add a note to Pinpics which says "be careful there are fakes of this pin in circulation" and let say I have this pin (which I don't) and I trade it and the guy who gets it, he's nervous because he read on PP that fakes are out there so he puts it under the microscope and sees a little black line where he thinks white should be...he wants to trade back and then I am out time, money, and fun because 1 person decided there were fakes of the pin.

 

[Tabbikat2219]

As a realitively new person for online trading I have to say my collection is more about FUN than anything else and I really appreciate the people when I offer to trade they tell me up front that they dont know if its a scrapper or not more often than not I go ahead and trade only ones I get concerned about is when I am trading my limited editions again its for fun I am not trying to make money off my hobby I tell people up front also if I am not sure about the pin and let them make an informed choice.

 

[iamdisneydan]

Something to think about.
While I do try to educate people about counterfeit pins and such, I have also told you that Max and I have traded knowingly for, well, lets call them fantasy pins because they are not even a copy of any real pin. We dont get all caught up in the, is it a scrapper.

Now if you are trading for a pin with a value greater than $50.00, sure you want and need to know it is real. One thing I want to point out and I gave an example on my DSF ost about the event and problems with the pins is that not all pins are perfect, some far from it actually and are sold right in the DSF or DLR sales areas.

The DSF pins had major flaws that if this was not bought at the DSF, people would scream FAKE, SCRAPPER, etc. Pins will have variences.
I took a friend and did a comparison right in estward Ho and LGM and we looked at the pins on each rack. Generally there are 4 - 12 of each pin on a rack and when comparing (we took them off the rack and layed them all out on the counter, you should see the differences.

Like I said before, the first pin made compared to the 10'000th pin made will have some variences mostly in color. Every car painted Midnight Blue does not have the same Hue or tine, there are differences even if subtle. And as far as little imperfections, come on now. It does not make it a scrapper, counterfeit or anything else, it makes it a pin with a merk on it. Nothing more nothing less.

Here is a great example. I collest and sell sports cards. They are printed on a sheet and a die cut machine cuts them out. They are not always perfect center, meaning the boarder may be 60 / 40. A perfect card being 50 / 50. The 60 / 40 card is as real as the other but in this industry it may not get as much money because the 50 / 50 card is perfect. Pins are the same way. I personally like it sometimes when I get a pon that is a little different then others because to me its special (Like Me) and is different than everyone elses. Calling it an error rather than a scrapper would be better suited.

I agre that while I try to educate people, they also need to relax and have fun. The main Reason I do this with my kids is because we have fun. I meet great people, go to great events, get pins for myself and my kids, all fun. Dont let other people take the fun out of it. Thats why I never actively collected POH on the days of the events because of all the horror stories and I dont need stress or problems. I want fun and interaction with people.

And in closing, you are right. People who really are not sure about what they are saying are typically the people who scream scrapper, and usually before doing any research to back their claim. Have fun people, if you trade a pin and get a pin you want, be happy. If its a grail, do research prior to the trade. If you scream Wolf too many times, well............